DaytonaUSA

Well, the Wii has officially been turned on once more! Please buy this game. If not for the fact it's a fantastic game, then for the fact we need to show THQ that we don't like movie license titles but original IPs. Anyone else purchase this? PS: Taranchula > Scorpion

Don't worry bud, we're here to talk about games , no worries. I totally understand your initial impressions. Like I said, while I liked the DC version, the XBOX game after that (X2 or something?) I hardly played. I think it is the artwork, as you suggested, that make you think of GG. It looks VERY MUCH like GG. But, I'm hoping since it's a new game, while it looks similar, the way you do moves will be more refined (IE: not the same game lol). It's hard to judge honestly what it will be like, so we'll see until they release a demo or something. However, I guess what really excited me was simply the amount of fighters, especially 2D, that we've seen recently. As a major fan of fighting games, it's nice to see the classic 2D kind still alive and well. Even if this game ends up sucking, it's at least a sign that the little genre isn't going anywhere. While the models for KoF sounds iffy, I really love that franchise, so I'm very excited about it.. admitedly, more so than this possible GG clone.

Yeah Gamestop is the absolute worst. I don't even check Gamestop for recently used copies of games anymore. Not worth bothering with at all. At the same time I hope Amazon's plan fails miserably. I'd hate for them to even make a dime off this deal., If that happens who's to say they won't stop letting 3rd party sellers (just average Joes selling their game) sell their games on their site? Currently amazon is my absolute favorite place to buy used games through 3rd party sellers. I'd hate to see that go away. Very true, however this could work out in our favor. If they *don't* restrict other poeple selling their games,it will regulate their used pricing structure. IE: You sell your game.. you get a 10 dollar gift certificate for ALL of Amazon.com. Now, you go to see what you can buy with this. You can buy a copy of a used game from Amazon themselves, which probably won't have a picture of the actual item.. and let's say it's 45 dollars. OR you can get the same game, with a picture of the product, for 30. IF amazon keeps other sellers (I'm sure they would) this would make sure that they never inflate their used game prices like Gamestop. If this is successful, then gamestop would feel pressure, and lower their used game prices as well. That would make a market for all three, with prices on the corporations pulled down a bit. It might actually work to everyone's favor.

I don't know much about fighting games but I did find this which seems to indicate the game isn't 100% 2D. The story is a year old so maybe things have changed over time? What I've read is that KoF 12 has characters which were created much the same way the Killer Instinct characters were. They were modeled in 3D and posed in all their various animation frames. Then, instead of taking that effort and put it in a game, the models were then scanned in and turned into 2D HD sprites which were then painted over by animators. Altogether, a rightfully antiquated graphical technique, shown to be especially so by Street Fighter IV. Yeah, basically a lot of extra wasted effort just to appease the fanatical 2d sprites ONLY based fighting crowd. yep, I think this pretty much goes into all the detail necessary. It's very recent, and there was some bad info going around about kof xii for a while. Because of the non-3d models, I say it looks a bit better than sf4 and will stand up to time better. I guess it's a style preference. Kind of like how more modern disney cartoons are created using complex animation systems to insert a depth of field into their work, when that's much easier to do with 3d models. The two games are on the same arcade platform, but I haven't heard of them being on the same engine. I guess it depends on how flexible the sf4 engine is, but I'd think SNK already knows their way around 2D fighter engines. getting back to guilty gear--am I the only person who just hasn't 'gotten' the guilty gear series in general. It's managed to provide me with zero fun, even though it should be right up my alley... I'm usually not a bit fan of Guilty Gear to the point where I *have to* have each of their games. But I did like the Dreamcast version quite a bit (the xbox version looked very pretty, but didn't have much depth). I donno, I figure since it's a new series maybe they'll handle the combo system differently despite it being made by the same company.

I don't know much about fighting games but I did find this which seems to indicate the game isn't 100% 2D. The story is a year old so maybe things have changed over time? http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2007/09/kin..._confirmed.html King of Fighters XII would be hitting North America on the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360 in early 2009. The last non-spinoff entry in the series was KOF XI in 2005, and the upcoming game is a 3D fighter that is shaded to look 2D. Koyama described it as "3D mixed with 2D". Before that, the title will be rolled in its Japanese arcade version in late 2009. Looking forward to seeing how SNK combines this. What I've read is that KoF 12 has characters which were created much the same way the Killer Instinct characters were. They were modeled in 3D and posed in all their various animation frames. Then, instead of taking that effort and put it in a game, the models were then scanned in and turned into 2D HD sprites which were then painted over by animators. Altogether, a rightfully antiquated graphical technique, shown to be especially so by Street Fighter IV. Yeah, basically a lot of extra wasted effort just to appease the fanatical 2d sprites ONLY based fighting crowd. Like me? . Hey, you don't need to have 3d polygons to make a great fighter. While I don't like the 3d models like Killer Instinct idea, regular hand painted sprites and backgrounds can be even more amazing than 3d. There's a certain level of detail you can push with hand drawn art that will never age or look dated in my personal opinion... just as animated Disney movies will never seem outdated next to Pixar movies to me. I LOVE Pixar, but hand drawn will always have a place in current circles.

Considering it's from the makers for guilty gear, which I loved on my Dreamcast, what could go wrong? I love the recent drive to 2D or at least 3D fighters on 2D plains. I've been in heaven in the last few months! http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/05/blazblue...n-ps3-xbox-360/

Ughh.. double post. Silly site.

No, no it wasn't. That's the problem. You didn't hear a single word I said. See this diagram? Forgive me for rushing through your long reply, I'm at work, and while I'm sure this topic is very important to some, I don't have time for much but to hurridly read and skim your posts in order to allow myself to have time to reply before jumping back to work. Yes I see what you're talking about now, but honeslty, my finger wouldn't fit to feel where the green highlighted section is. Actually, come to think of it, if I want to be a douche (and who doesn't on this thread >_>) you can argue the ps controller has "tacticle feedback" as well. See the cross shaped part that's shiny and slippery unlike the rest of the rough controller where the face buttons are? That should give you, that is if you feel around instead of memorizing where the buttons are, a clue as to where your thumbs are. Also, just as a tip, what helped me when I was young was to rock my finger back and forth quickly, and lightly to feel the other ones on the pad. I did this a lot with the SNES controller, and it helped me find where I was on a pad when I didn't know where I was. So yea, the fact I took time out of my day to answer you and to explain the parts YOU got wrong, doesn't mean that I'm uneducated because I didn't have time to look at your MS Paint picture. I was rushed, I saw an arrow on the button and put two and two together. For all the things you misunderstood about my posts, I think it's unfair to back up atarifever in insulting my intelligence because I missed something on yours. In fact, I was kind enough, if you look back, to EDIT my posts because I would come back later and see things I missed, which I feel was very nice of me to be honest! I understand we sometimes get neck and neck around here on these boards, but supporting people who insult how supposedly *stupid* someone is, is very immature and uncalled for. Just because one person says somethign out of line that could insult someone and hurt their feelings doesn't make it ok for everyone to do it. Considering I thought I was having a friendly discussion about games, and not my IQ, I guess I just feel that was undeserved. I expect that crap from atarifever because he always talks like that (and i wish he wouldn't), but I kind of expected more from you, jbanes. The reason I brought up Obama at the end of my post was to purposely show how comments like that don't fit in boards about video games. It's out of line, it's unnecessary, and it's innappropriate.

He does have a Wii, doesn't he? That's a modern system. As is the DS he said he owned. Please don't lower the IQ of the room by getting into the braindead "Wii is last gen" silliness. You didn't, read the rest of my post. Don't jump down my throat before you know what I was talking about. We're talking about dpads and buttons. He doesn't like modern games. Just because he has a Wii doesn't mean it's his idea of God's savior to classic gamers, it just means he has one. Bottom line, he's missing out on hundreds of games classic gamers would like just because he can't get used to 4 face buttons and 4 triggers... oh and a dpad he doesn't have to use. My response was nothing but an educated one, and one that for the most part, only cleared up what I said. If you want to lower the IQ of the room I guess I'll just start talking like our President then. "UHHHHHHhhhhhhh, Duuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes Dave, and See ya later guys!"

Er, don't you mean Madden '08, Madden '07, Madden '06, Madden '05 for used games? Nah, more like "would you like to researve a copy of Madden today?" maddening

Sigh, if you don't like modern systems and don't own them, why are you fighting someone who DOES own modern systems and DOES love them and own them lol. Anyway.. I'm not going to even try answering all your points. It's kind of a waist of time, as you're set on thinking modern controllers are from the devil, and the best pad is something at least 15 years old. ANYwho, a few points you seemed to not understand me well on. I'm not going to fight them, but you shoudl at least know what I meant, ya know?: 1. When I said the PS controller took controllers away from the rectangle pad, I didn't mean, rectangle as in an actual rectangle, I meant in the sense it was a flat pad with no dimension. IE: just because the snes pad had curves on the end to make sure you didnt' want to kill yourself while playing games, didn't make it as comfortable as the "stick" grips every modern (well.. not wii) controller has on it today. All I was trying to say was that, playstation was the first step into a more ergonomic fit for hands(ie: comfortable.. your NES controller with sticks doesn't really count as comfortable).. 2. I totally laughed at the "the ps controller is a pos" answer. Nicely played kind sir. But again, all a matter of opinion. 3. Fighting games.. sigh, when I meantion fighting games, I don't mean 3D fighting games. I grew up when fighting games took place on a two dimensional plane and weren't like soul calibur (ie: they took skill to play lol). So yes, joysticks work just fine for 3d fighters. However, 2d fighters are a lot more technical, and require you banging the dpad/joystick back and forth and in different directional combinations that the 3d fighters use less of to execute moves. 4. You said somewhere in there that even if joysticks on pads are worse, the best way to play by far is an arcade joystick. Which, considering the only modern games that actually USE dpads mostly are fighters (hence why I keep bringing them up) saying an arcade stick works infinitely better, and you wouldn't even use a pad to play them ideally.. proves my point! IE: No dpad on ANY system pleases you. You can say the PS dpad isnt as nice, but the only type of games you're going to need it on are technical 2d fighters! If you aren't using a pad for fighters, what's the point in bitching about ANY of the controller's dpads since the Saturn era? lol EDIT: sorry, i realized you said the wii has an excellect pad.. why yes it does. However, the pad is a bit more needed however as there is no second joystick, and for that matter.. no joystick on wiimote only games. If it sucked, playing games on the Wii would be significantly crappier (see what I did there?) as it's more required you use it than on a ps3 or 360 game. 5. I *said* unless you're talking about convex and concave buttons. Why are you preaching to me about something I already brought up. My come back, again, to your complaint is that we're talking about AN IMPORT SNES WII CONTROLLER HERE, THAT HAS NO CONVEX OR CONCAVE FEEL TO ANY BUTTONS. THEY"RE ALL THE SAME!!!! I could go on here.. but look, you like classic systems, so do i.. yay for us. But if you don't like modern systems, there's little sense in complaining. I already start to feel alienated sometimes as I grew up in the early early 3d hayday. IE: when arcade game play was king. So games like Gears of War, God of War, Insert anything of War, ect don't appeal to me at all. And I'm sure, one day very very FEW games will appeal to me. And when that day comes, I'll be sure to lock myself in the classic game forum and never come out . I have a ps3 because I love arcade racing games (helllLLLOOooo look at my screen name), and platformers. Anything else I really have a hard time getting my hands around. Some games like Battlefront shock me, and I become addicted. But all in all, just because I have the ability to use the controller without being confused about where the buttons are, like you, doesn't mean i'm particularly happy with where the industry is heading. It's one reason why I loved the Wii so much when it came out. However, they've gone so casual, so mini game oriented, and for that matter.. so few releases, I just could honestly care less about the system right now. Every time I get excited about a game (excite bot, sonic and the black knight, any sonic.. >_>, um....god it's been so long since a new release came out that I cared about, oh .. House of the dead..) they totally ruin it. Anyway, I'm glad you hate it, I'm glad I like it. You're missing out on a LOT of games I know classic gamers like yourself would love, but if you can't get passed the scary evil controller of doom with many many shiny buttons in your way, that's your bit . Oh and to get back on topic, the classic controller PRO wouldnt DEFINITELY NOT be a good choice for you to buy if you were thinking of it, as it's more of a gc than anything else... well, actually even worse, it's a gc pad with evil evil sony joysticks and a snes pad and buttons. Later bud.

If I had to guess, and this is just an educated guess based on every other business that accepts trade-ins. (Auto dealerships, pawn shops, used video-game stores etc...) They will sell them for more than they paid for them. My understanding is companies usually try and generate revenue. (money) The great thing about these types of places is you are not forced to do any business with them. For instance, you can trade in your car at an auto dealership and accept $1000 for your car if you wish, or you can go out and sell it yourself and in most cases accept more than what the auto dealership would have given you for it. I don't trade in games and I usually don't just go out and purchase a used game without doing some research as to what it's worth so in my eyes they can give people $1 for their trade ins and sell them for 5x the retail price for all I care. If they make any $$$ more power to them, but it wont be coming from me. Point 1. Hardi har har . duh they'd sell for profit . I'm just saying though, Gamestop sells used newer games for 3 dollars less than new, but only give you 25 trade. I'd be curious to see if they sell a new game for 35 or 45 let's say used, rather than couple bucks less than a sealed retail copy. 2. Yea, I do like how you don't have to buy games. According to Joystiq though, Toys R Us is already doing what Amazon is doing. However, I'm not sure Toys R Us actually *sells* the used games. So I'm curious who they're selling them to... Either way, Joystiq had a good point. What incentive will there be to go to gamestop when all these other companies team up and do what gamestop does, without the hassle of going to the store vs online... or.. just the hassle of going to the store... which is always maddening

Yea I know, sony systems have a thing when it comes to custom systems, especially the PSP. I ended up waiting and waiting until the Vader system came out. I still thing that's one of the coolest retail paint jobs that have ever graced a handheld . I kinda like this design. I wish they went with more of the detailed Final Fantasy styling that the PSPs have instead of this checker board thing.. but it's cool none the less . I'm very interested to see what they do with the Kingdom Heart series. It sounds very much like FFXIII, in that there will be several spin offs and then one, main sequel. I just hope the main game lands on a system I own currently.

Wow, so many good franchises lost :COUGH:

It may work, but if you get caught, that's your own fault, ya know? Personally, I have never stole game software like this, which many people do with the PSP for instance. Why? So I can enjoy the game so much as to never see a sequel because since they didn't get paid, they went out of business? The only games I have that are burned are some rare Sega CD games, which I have only because they are VERY rare and VERY expensive, and were made well after those companies have disappeared and the games long gone from store shelves. IE: if the game is still for sale for them to make a buck on, it's wrong to support this. Just get a wii and buy the retail copies of games.

DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION is out today! It's lag free, beautiful, ...perfect in every way. Don't even bother with Tap Tap 2. I deleted that after 5 minutes of play.. what trash. Lag throughout on that game.

Wow man, browsed the PS3 trade in value for 30 seconds... Burnout paradise..6 bucks Call of Duty 3 ... 4.50 Devil May Cry 4...8 bucks Disguea... 16 Odly enough, the now oldish racer, Dirt, is 15. These prices make no sense. I'd love to see what they sell the used copies for, because right now, I don't feel compelled to give away ANY ps3 game for under 10 bucks...none the less 6.

Pretty much the only way to go. Square + Custom system + New system = Profit. The idea of Kindom Hearts portable, is really interesting. I thought there was a PSP game coming out, but I might have to rebuy a DS (sold mine because it was collecting dust thanks to my iPhone) if this comes out and it's good (ie: not like the PS2 port of the GBA kindom hearts game. That was horrid). http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/05/kingdom-...ay-30-in-japan/

Sway, Zen Bound (heart!), and Vector tanks are my latest three downloads, and I love them all... Zen Bound more than any other iPhone game to date. The premise sounds stupid, but it's so addicting!

That was two generations after Sony completely borked the D-Pad. At that point Nintendo was trying to de-emphasize its use. The good news is that the GCN DPad is still light-years more comfortable than the Playstation one. The bad news is it's so unnatural to use it in that position that it takes conscious effort. That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. If you say so. And it's not like the SNES controllers had rounded edges for easy grip or anything. When they're also bordered by visual cues that group them? Yes. Take another gander: If my memory serves me correct, the groupings of the buttons were slightly raised on the surface of the controller, making it easy to find them by feel. That way you wouldn't get confused by the orientation of the diamond. It was easy to lay one finger on the run button and find the jump button by feel. Something that the Playstation got wrong. (Not to mention the Classic Controller. They changed the feel of the buttons themselves instead. Which wouldn't seem like such a bad idea except that a) the buttons are too high on the controller and b) you can't follow an edge from one button to the next. You have to test them by feel to make sure you have the right button.) As opposed to those useless buttons on the front of the controller? I don't disagree in principle. However, the Playstation controller is directly responsible for the billion-button march. While other console makers attempt to redesign and refine their controllers, Sony pretty much just attaches another wizamagig and calls it a day. It works, but it doesn't work particularly well in comparison to other controllers on the market. To make matters worse, its design philosophy shows up in its biggest competitor: The XBox 360. Great controller, but it's got a severe case of button-itis. I've more than once tried to pick up a game on the 360, only to realize that I'm not coordinated enough to manage the controller in a combat situation. All the extra functionality can be useful for simulation style gaming, but it targets an ever shrinking population of core gamers willing to adapt to the controller. Don't get me started on the myriad of problems with the GCN controller. All the work they did to simplify it with large buttons was undone with oddities like the unbalanced Z trigger, the analog shoulders with too much play, the travel distance between A and B, the difficulty in telling X and Y apart by feel, the positioning and size of the DPad, the non-intuitiveness of the C stick, etc. Sometimes I think I'm the only person who ever liked that controller. The N64 is actually an interesting controller. Primarily because it was the first attempt in earnest at a controller designed for 3D gaming on a console. In that respect, it was a success. The concepts pioneered in the controller went on to become staples of 3D console gaming. (e.g. analog thumbstick, rumble, camera control, etc.) That being said it had a bad case of button-itis of its own. The big difference between something like the Playstation controller and the N64 controller is that Nintendo again used symbols and feel to create intuitive groupings. e.g. The C buttons could have been a horrible explosion of buttons. But they were really there as a secondary D-Pad for the camera. They actually ended up being used for item switching or movement, but the directional nature of the buttons made it relatively easy to understand. No one reached for the raised C buttons when they were trying to make their Arwing fire. However, they did reach for the C buttons when they wanted to move the camera in Mario 64 or to strafe in GoldenEye. Basically, the design of the controller guided you to a few basic controls before even attempting to use anything else. And that's a good thing. It greatly increases the pick-up-and-play aspect of the console. I have no idea how to quote in the middle of someone else's quote.. besides, then we'd have three seperate post's quotes in one page, and that would be confusing. So, I'll do the best I can to go down the list without forgetting anything: 1. The GC controller was not two generations after the ps controller..that would be ONE generation. The N64 and the PS controller were from the SAME generation. ONE generation later, the GC pad came and "blessed" us with it's dpad. 2. It's all a matter of opinion, but since I'm very big into fighting games, the large dpad (and perfect) of the snes and n64 were trashed. You cannot play Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO on a GC as well as you can on a PS2. I'm sorry, I don't care how much you hate sony, but your thumb is the size of the whole GC dpad. You end up rocking it like a joystick more than working it like a dpad in order to make any use of it. I was forced to use the joystick for Capcom vs SNK2 EO on the GC version, and ...controller joysticks on a fighter NEVER mesh well. Period. 3. . Don't tell me that doesn't make ANY sense. You know full well I meant that fighting games are easier to play on a sony system (IE: with it's pad) vs a Xbox SYSTEM (IE: with it's pad). Just becaues I said controller instead of system doesn't make the statement unreadable. If you were saying that the xbox pad is better for fighting games than a sony pad, then I think about every fighting game fan will break out in laughter at you. Both the original Xbox and the 360's pad have major issues in their own way. One is a wavy pos, and the other is an unresponsive, clunky piece of garbage. As a final note, to try to make you take off your edge a bit (sometimes I feel like people are defending till the death here..), the DC pad STILL has the best dpad, and that was AFTER the ps dual shock was released, so there ya go. 4. So just because some controller had sticks on the end of a FLAT controller doesn't mean that the ps controller tried to finally take the majority of pads away from the "holding a rectangle" era? I'm sorry, but every controller has been positively influenced by the ps controller, even your precious 360 pad. Who came up with clickable joystics? Sony. Who came up with pressure sensitive face buttons? Sony. Who came up with dual analogs on a 3D console system? Sony. I could go on... 5. I have no idea what you're talking about on the "feel" of the buttons. Unless you're telling me you can judge the groove says "A" or "B" while you're playing a hectic game, then I think you're crazy. If you're talking about the fact that the American snes controller had concave and convex face buttons, then you need to remember the Japanese snes pad was the first to make all four face buttons feel exactly the same with NO grooves for letters what so ever. Yes, the NES pad's buttons and many others felt the same, but they had so few buttons, you really couldn't get confused by what you were pushing. I guess what I'm trying to say though in the end is, if you don't know what buttons you're pressing, and you are a gamer, then please dear lord, you need to spend some more time in front of the machine. I haven't been confused over what button I was playing past the first 3 days of owning any of the consoles I own, no matter what make. (And yes, that includes my original xbox, with it's white and black buttons in the middle of nowhere). 6. Funny how you didn't fight my point on the GC pad, for once I guess I said something you agreed with. Regarding the N64 pad, I LOVED it at the time. But you really have to be kidding me if you think it was the best idea. It's obviously very flawed as 1. no one really ever used the left side of the controller and 2. no controller has mimiked that setup since, not even nintendo, so it must be pretty flawed. Lastly, if you want to complain about controllers, the 4 camera buttons instead of a second joystic was far from idea, especially when some games used them as action buttons, like Rogue Squadron, which was horribly confusing as you were basically using 6 face buttons at once. Lastly, if you want to see the worst console joystick of all time, look no further than the N64. I treat all my consoles like babies, and each one looks factory new, and yet I had to replace my joysticks on my N64 pad 4 times when I still played it regularly. And no, I never dared playing games like Mario Party on the system, as that was a death sentance to N64 joysticks. All in all, the PS controller does not contribute all that is horrid in the market. They have come up with things that everyone has copied on to improve the controller as a whole, just like Nintendo has. You can't say that the PS controller is a flawed POS then in the same breath excuse the N64 pad because it was the first run in the 3d genre for them. One works, the other feels dated. The Japanese SNES pad had many of the things you complained about with the Sony pad, so I fail to release how it's "all sony's fault" that controllers are the way they are today. And, judging by how hard it is for you to find buttons...still... after all this time... on modern pads, maybe modern consoles simply aren't for you. Think of the positives. You no longer have to go to Gamestop!

I don't think the ps controller came out and then Nintendo said "oh man, it's ok to make a bad dpad now cause Sony did it" and then put the horrid dpad in the gc pad. And please, at least I can play fighting games on a sony system unlike xbox controller. The grips are far from uninspired... they basically came up with the idea to have that style grip on a console controller. Furthermore, wether bottoms are letters are shapes, do they really give any clue to their function? No. Lastly, I quite like multiple triggers. Makes accelerating and braking while having other functions available work quite well. I think all the controllers out there are great in their own way, and have their share of problems. However, singling out one as being what made controllers too complicated for you is kinda lame. I mean, if you want a worse controller look at the n64 controller. Two controllers in one! >_>

No and Yes

At least they don't call you a BLEEP BLEEP BLEEPin BLEEP when you ask them if the deal is still on

Really? I love the dreamcast triggers that the PS3 and the 360 emulate, but I never was a big fan of the "bumber" triggers. Because I always held the DC triggers with my index fingers, it's how I hold a 360 pad.. thus making it so I can't easily hit those buttons. Actually, I had the same problem with the purple Z button on the GC pad. Using any other finger other than my index finger to use the main triggers didn't feel as precise when I wanted to regulate how hard I was pressing them.

Actually, if you're going to get a new controller for the wii, get the Classic PRO controller that's only in japan. It's like a gc pad and a classic controller mashed together. It's really awesome .