Wolfram

yes, details are important... color ram scroll: the color ram is always there, not just only when you do a scrolling game. lets see lemon64 toplist: - pirates, no colorscroll, but still gfx a8 would not do in the same time without g2f - zak mckracken, colorscroll - maniac mansion, colorscroll - last ninja2 dynamicly drawn colored stills a8 cant do. so wether it scrolls or not its there. its an advantage. A8 scrolling HW is awesome. The letdown is that c64 can compensate for that with cpu and still keep 50fps, while A8 cant keep up with that, if the c64 is pushed more heavily.

pokey... digis can be better, but digi replay freq is a CPU thing and not a property of Pokey,appart from that SID wins hands down. gfx... the c64 cpu can sit idle, while the a8 throwing all cpu and sprites on a screen will be not able to catch up with the picture quality.

well, we all know what I mean. so stop pretending you dont. thanks. well or maybe not. now try to dissect this definition: "built in mode is one which doesnt uses the cpu for timed register changes in synch with the rasterbeam to better the picture." good luck Basic gfxs ? mmm... what insane... well i don't know who had the idea, but here is it: Still Atari can do something that C64 can do it on this basic modes. 5 colors 160x200 9 colors 160x200

oh, overscan. didnt notice it. I mean really. yes the c64 would need to use empty scanlines, yes c64 has no overscan. can show a great bunch of sprite over nicely colored screens instead. which one is more important do you think? no empty scanlines when splitscreen&overscan vs quite freely colored screens with a lot of HW sprites ? btw that flower game looked nice. something you expect on a c64 normally but not from an a8. sorry too lazy now to dl&learn how to use a8 emu now, I cant check reaxion intro screen now.

you cant possibly expect me to know that number.

1st game: you mean splitscreen scrolling? there are games doing that on the c64 too. 2nd game: whats the specialty here? I guess its a charmode screen with some players doing the ship. 3rd game: c64 could color those blocks more freely. a8 has to use various charsets, and gprior stuff with cpu intervention and still lagging behind. YOU are not so biased, I agree.

yeah. whats up with the joystick I/O ? it turned out that c64's joyport is 8bit wide just like atari's. So when I say the liking of a palette is subjective, thats unfair ? its sure not an objective thing.

well, we all know what I mean. so stop pretending you dont. thanks. well or maybe not. now try to dissect this definition: "built in mode is one which doesnt uses the cpu for timed register changes in synch with the rasterbeam to better the picture." good luck

yeah video titling and presentation scrollers is what every kid wanted fact is both machines were used for gaming, and the c64 had the better technology for that. ton of cpu cycles to do scrolling? indeed, but a8 needs 50 tons of cycles to make sprites. and how many machines had GTIA? dont think those modes were used for other than showing off with the clown picture. while c64 modes were all utilized, and on the spot for the job.

I have used what the a8 has to offer without extra cpu help. and that is that.

Atari doesn't have screen built in modes, only line modes. Believe or not, when you turn on the Atari, doesn't have any mode on it. There is no 320x200 or 320x240 or 160x200 or 192x200 screen modes, those screens must to be programmed on the Antic first. call it what you like, if the cpu doesnt helps the a8 gfx chip, the pictures lag behind the c64 in quality really badly.

I have given proofs that what you have said is not true. You have not prooven your statements. So just stop with the untrue personal insults. Thanks for being as vague as possible. What have you proven to be untrue? That palette is objective, that atari joystick i/o is superior to C64, that Atari has a faster CPU, more color depth, etc. etc. And if you don't trust the images, just run the demo posted earlier in this thread on a REAL Atari. The only difference is it doesn't have the 8 fix-ups per scanline using sprites-- instead has something better-- a 7-shaded curtain on top of a 16-shade image. thats not what we are talking about. you have written a whole post ,just to insult me personally. then I have given proof none of what you said there it is true. feel free to say "I'm sorry".

yeah, indeed: freedom to choose from many modes which are inferior to the c64. let's just define built in modes: built in mode is one which doesnt uses the cpu to better the picture. both a8 and c64 has such modes. and c64 is better at it. and even if you throw cpu at it on a8, you are lagging behind. the c64 is already doing a game infront of the gfx screen with the same effort of the a8 trying to bring in more colors.

nice, no miscolored pictures...

it was not miscolored. the image was drawn for c64, there's no "original". its not a convert. then someone asked to show how it would look like on a8. I did. using the original. and it shows the huge difference between built in a8 and c64 gfxmodes indeed. looking above, let me ask you: why do you call the c64 one miscolored ? Why not try with a 47 Atari color screen? no flickering eh? its about built in modes. you can forget the clown.

I have given proofs that what you have said is not true. You have not prooven your statements. So just stop with the untrue personal insults.

thats just not true. no gfx exists which uses 16 shades for skin & eyes. the only reason being: not possible.

Palette is not subjective. The bigger the better. Having more shades is also not subjective (vertically overscanned image follows with 8 pixel fix-ups/line using sprites): yeah sure, 136 colors at 320x resolution... lets zoom in a bit: now bring a picture which doesnt cheats so badly.

>Wrong. You cannot display any imagery of 16-gray scale or 16-shades of other colors. Higher color density on C64 in your imagination. I was talking about 160x200x~16, its a fact it has higher color density. >Once again throwing up arbitrary numbers to confuse people. Prove it's 100X lower density. whatever, its not comparable. the c64 can have a nice 16 color gfx, while you have some colored boxes. >Bullcrap. As I stated, the 40 DMA cycles you use up for fetching color RAM, I can use to do a DLI. And GPRIOR will automatically generate further colors. c64 can display a whole game over a nicely colored gfx display. a8 cant do shit. cpu and "sprites" all used up.

it was not miscolored. the image was drawn for c64, there's no "original". its not a convert. then someone asked to show how it would look like on a8. I did. using the original. and it shows the huge difference between built in a8 and c64 gfxmodes indeed. looking above, let me ask you: why do you call the c64 one miscolored ?

sure there are many modes vs a few on c64, each better.

grayscale images shown as color are miscolored even on a8, or wherever.

I have never said that, nor similar. I have already once told you that you can not expect me each time I talk about that mode to describe every detail. I have already once told you that I dont respect them as true x16 modes.

whose image is badly miscolored ? you even cheat by showing an interlaced picture.

so? they can still display a higher color density than a8 ever dreamt of. most games use charmode anyway, and c64 charmode is aswell better then a8 bitmapmode. still much better than what a8 can do. it is. a8 engineers may have been unable to get that right (artefacting) but thats not the case for c64. its an a8 issue. yes, having 100x lower color density than c64 has while the cpu is iddle. you can have some colored boxes with that, while the c64 is displaying a real picture. not wrong, but the c64 can still do loads of things beside a 16col pic, while u use up all cpu and "sprites" to get some inferior coloring.