kool kitty89

Sorry, I meant in terms of 2600 compatbility for your proposed "2700" console (not the RC Stella, but the simpler 8-bit derived home console alternatve to the 5200)

To do that would require Atari to have in-house R&D that actually understood how the chipset worked so they could extend upon it. They didn't have that. Not by a longshot. They shot themselves in the foot by losing Jay Miner's team in the first place. The only thing that passed for R&D since then were various attempts to repackage, cost-reduce, and add peripherals to the existing chipsets. The brain-trust was simply not there. It was there in coinop, but not in consumer. Umm, did you miss the comments about Gaza and Sierra and Curt's on the Silver & Gold and Rainbow chipsets in development? I commented that what I've read is relatively vague on specifics, but Atarimuseum's short summary seems to imply the machines were quire capable, the rub would have been in terms of cost, which I have no idea on. (though the dual CPU layout of Gaza would tend to point away from this) Perhaps Curt could shed more light on this. (and he already mentioned he'll be shedding new light on a 8-bit compatible high-end unit called "Omni") Here's his prevuous post I referred to: (main points in bold) Also Curt, What about backwards compatibility?

The thing about the CD-i was it wasn't intended as a game console, rather a multimedia system, playing audio and video CD's (with optional MPEG decoder), with gaming as more of an afterthought. (kind of like the reverse of the 3DO, primarily a game system that also emphasized its multimeda capabilities -also featuring an MPEG module) Anyway, by 1993, Phillips had been in bed with Nintendo for a couple years already (with the eventually canceled CD add-on), so I'd have to say no to this idea. Neo Geo was a sprite moster and ROM monster, while the Jag is powerful, the arcitecture is quite different and conversions would no tbe "simple" particularly with the Jag's limited RAM and CD's (with cartridges, perhaps, and the Jag could store data compressed and have one of the RISC's decompress it and stream it in real time). Remember that the Neo Geo CD had upwards of 7 MB of RAM. Hence why the Saturn required the RAM cart for proper conversions of some arcade games (which were lacking on the contemporary PSX), especially the all the sprite animations necessary for 2D fighters SNK had so many of. In Japan the CD unit, and standalone duo had fully succeeded the card based PC Engine and greatly exceeded its popularity (with a massive CD software library), becoming the 2nd most popular 4th gen console in Japan (behind the Super Famicom and well ahead of the Mega Drive). Still, by 1993 it was aging, and perhaps there could have been some negotiation, but it would be tricky. It was mentioned before that Atari did try to find a partner for the system (particularly for licenced production iirc), but failed to get intrest. (I don't know if they really tried Japanese companies though) Actually I think it was the basis of most console ports at the time, notable exception being the SNES, with the 3DO, 32x, PlayStation (and releated Saturn version) being derived at least in part from the Jag version. (though I think the GBA's was the most direct port, all of these versions have distinct changes from the PC version that they share, notably the textures, and some level changes, like the pillars missing next to the staircase with armor at the begining of E1M1 -something that the SNES version included oddly enough) As to this, some delay could be necessary, but some of the simplest (though still significant) changes could be done with virtually no delay, notably swapping the 68k for a 68EC020, and a CD drive probably wouldn't add to things if it was off the shelf. (though a custom one would be cheaper in the long run, perhaps upgrade to a custom 2x speed drive in later units, starting with a cheaper, slower 1x speed drive) Other changes like modifying Jerry, fixing the MMU bugs, and double buffering the blitter would take more time, but could be worth it in the long run. (in any case, defnitely have many more launch titles, which in itsself may necessitate a later release depending on how you dealt with developers, particularly with changes to hardware -but I suppose you could send out a simple, preliminary dev kit that could be compatible regardless of hardware changes) And as for 2D, yes, defintely allow the Jag to shine (unlike Sega did in the US, with some of the best 2D games only released in Japan), but as far as advantages over the competition, the Saturn was a pretty heavy hitter here (though the Jag did have advantages), and was also know for being "weaker" in 3D (at least on average, but in large part due to the difficulty of really pushing the hardware, a little like the Jag). The Jag wouldn't be pushing as many polygons (at least textured), but it had some flexibility with textures the PSX lacked (PSX having a fixed texture cache limiting number and resolution of textures, and no perspective correction, hence the warping seen in many PSX games -though tricks could be used to minimize this problem) Also having 3D games using plain, gouraud shaded polygon environments would mean much higher polygon counts than with textures, or balance things, use g-shading where perfectly acceptable and textures where necessary, as well as scaled 2D objects (lik trees, fire, explosions, and others depending on context) in place of polygon models where appropriate. (like in Phase Zero) Also, the Jag seems to have done voxel type environments particularly well, again, see Phase Zero.

Not to get off topic, but Gorf, which were you referring to by "later two systems," the PlayStation and Saturn? (He mentioned the N64 too, so it's more blurred) Wouldn't the Saturn's dual SH-2's be somewhat comparable to the Jag's multiprocessing? (except that the Saturn only has to share the main bus for the 2 CPU's, graphics and audio having dedicated busses) And isn't the N64's 93.75 MHz R4300 at least 2x as powerful than one of the 26.6 MHz J-RISCS's? (and closer to 3x the PS's ~33.8 MHz R3000A, which should be easier to compare directly with the N64's as it being a MIPS chip too, albeit an older architecture)

Yeah, but how often did the controllers end up working like this? (or is the jittering something that only comes with age, rather than the more common button problem)

Gorf, I got the impression he meant sales wise, which I believe is pretty accurate. (the Jag sold around 230,000 units right?) And the the way Atari management handled it seems a lot like "a bad joke". (I think you've refered to the dev tools by those exact words)

Don't bother modifying the chiset of the 800, or at least late 800 (with GTIA), but get something like the 600/800XL out by late '82. One definite change would be the case design, the massive cases with alumium castings were completely impractical to continue using... As to hostility to discontinuing the 400/800, perhaps they should have kept the new models fully backwards compatible, with 4x joystick ports, and 2nd cart slot for the 800XL's equivelent. Maybe not even bother with 64 kB on the 800XL, just 48 kB soldered to the board. Adding the PBI would still be important to allow lower cost peripherals, though perhaps just stick with just the SIO port and work on newer models with on-board disk drives. After that, don't bother with further development, just further cost reduction, inegrating chips, etc; continue to support the 8-bitters, but make a clean break for a new machine. (probably 68k based) From existing Atari projects, Sierra 68000 might have been along these lines, but the information on it is rather vague. (It's fairly clear that Gaza was more high-end workstation based, with dual 68k CPU's, so probably not a good option) Move the 8-bitters into the budget market and gradualy phase them out while continuing customer support. Then again, had Warner/Atari been handeled better from the start (perhaps split into development and marketing/consumer companies, maybe with bushnell even staying in charge of the development side -assuming other dissagreements didn't insue), maybe Atari employees wouldn't have gotten frustrated and ended up leaving to go out on their own (Amiga, Activision, etc). Rather, those people stayed and continued their projects at Atari. (then the Amiga becomes a non-issue, either being developed at Atari, or having the team involved with other projects like Sierra) Keep games seperate, no 5200, go straight for the 7800 (possibly a little earlier if they approached GCC to develop it instead of the other way arround), probably add a pokey instead of the on-cart expansion (maybe use Pokey for reading pots too, otherwise done in software on the 7800 iirc), but the rest could probably be fine. (low cost, integrated, compact, and featuring lockout) Maybe make the new carts look significantly different from the 2600's to avoid confusion. (also, no 7800 computer/keyboad attachment, avoid blurring the market) As to the gaming crash, Atari was responsible in big part for that, or rather Warner/Atari's mistakes and the highly inflated market with no control over 3rd parties on the 2600. Had they handeled things better, perhaps there still would have been the bubble of an inflated market, but not as bad, and had Activision not broken off, it probably would have taken longer for 3rd parties to start rabidly releasing games. (and once the 7800- or equivelent- was successfully establish -with lockout- these problems could be resolved, at least as far as Atari went, Coleco and Mattel may have stayed in the market too, if there wasn't a crash, or at least a more subdued one)

The SNES's Mode 7 wasn't necessarily sprite rotation, all it allowed was a single 256 color 128x128 pixel tile to be scaled and rotated, or alternately a pair using 128 colors each. (this could be used for 1, or 2 sprite tiles, but that's of limited utility, good for stuff like a boss battle though -I think Bowser in SMW uses this) For 3DO, scaling is also helpful for games like Wing Commander. (though it got the "upgraded" "Super Wing Commander" a remake, not a sequel, with tons of stereotypical hokey FMV sequences) Oddly enough the Sega CD version of WC got messed up as well, in part form the mediocre voices (still better than text only imo, or at least it would be without the constant pauses), and more importantly, completely changing the soundtrack! (not arranged lik in the Win95 re-released, completely differen't and not nearly as good! along with funky changes to sound effects) For this reason, I prefer the SNES version with choppy psudo scaling (save a few things done with mode 7), good renditions of the original music, and 256 colors, to the Sega CD version. (had they used something like the sounds from the Win 95 Wing Commander rleases, it would have been great, and the smoothe scaling makes up for the lower color IMO)

The DVD drive would have been. Yeah, sorry, I obviously wasn't clear in my original DVD comment, I think I finally fixed that in the rest of that quoted post though: But how common were CD burners in the mid '90s? On top of that, there's no way you'd be downloading from online sharing. So the biggerst issue would be Piracy in the same form th PSX had in its life. (probably not as bad due to the Jag being earlier, so probably more like the 3DO or Sega CD, at least until the late '90s, by which time you'd be moving on to the Jag II which could feature a proper lockout mechanism. Sega really blew that with the Dreamcast, even late model Playstations had some decent protection) The main problem with the DC was more of a perceived piracy threat turning off developers than an actual problem, again, online sharing would be virtually impossible with the common connection speeds at the time. (and Sega did eventually add lockout, but that was a bit late) Granted, piracy wasn't as big a problem as their damaged rep from the debacles of the previous generation and the looming Playstation 2, with loyal PS1 owners and DVD capabilities. As to "breaking" the propritary format, standard CD's worked fine, the only problem would be with games that exceeded a CD's data capacity (taking advantage of the GD-ROM format), so those games had to be hacked to fit on a 700 MB CD. Yes, but that assumes Atari buckled down and put out some nice tools for Tom and Jerry. The only other reasons for having the 020 is more resourse if you're going to have it handling all the game logic and AI, and (important even with the 020 idle), it's Jerry's host, and thus opens it up to a 32-bit data bus rather than the 16-bit one it's currently stuck on. (an 010 would still have that problem as well, not an issue at all if Jerry didn't require a host and the system had dedicated blocks of memory, but that's a significant redesign) Also, Gorf, I'm not exactly positive on the EC020 being limited to 25 MHz (the full 68020 definitely went up to 33 MHz though), Atarimuseum's specs for the Jag II list it with a 26.59 MHz 68EC020, but several refrences specifically mentioning the EC020 on the past search I did claimed that version was only available up to 25 MHz. (having Area 51 with a 25 MHz EC020 would point to this as well) So I don't know what's up with the Jag II... (it would be easy to tell by looking at the chip on the board, but the pics on the atarimuseum article don't show it) If it's a 25 MHz EC020, pushing it to 26.59 MHz seems a bit odd. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/cons...aguar/jag2.html Actually, this site: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/68020/ (see bottom of page) only lists 16 MHz and 25 MHz in the EC020 models listed, so maybe there wasn't even a 12.5 MHz model either. (just 4 models, 16 MHz and 25 MHz in QFP, and another 16 and 25 MHz available in PGA) Then again, Jagcube's example has a 16 MHz rated 68000 onboard, so who knows what the Jad II actually would have had? http://jagcube.atari.org/jaguartwo.html (their example also seems to have a 32 MHz master clock generator, along with a Jaguar I daughterboard for compatibility -possibly also used for Jerry II's clock as it apears to be 2x Jerry I's clock speed, while Tom II is at about 64 MHz according to atarimuseum, which is 2x the 32 MHz system clock) And the chip in the pic on atarimuseum looks more like it's a 68k, even in the limited perspective of that picture. (too few pins and from what I've seen in searches, the EC020 was in a rectangular package, not square like the 68k or full 68020, of course only refering to the QFP versions, in the EC020's case, a 100 pin package, 2 rows of 30 pins and 2 rows of 20)

You are speaking of sales so terms like "poor 7800", "5200 lost out", etc. don't fit. I would take a better system despite its sales. I think he meant "poor" in the sense that that poor, unfortuante 7800 got Slaughtered by Nintendo (which it was, along with the Master System), not that the hardware was poor. (personification of the 7800) Although, from resent quotes on 5200 and CV sales, it looks like the 7800 may have outsold both of these. (as I mentioned, Curt's figures give over 3.77 million 7800's sold from '86-90)

And it was published by Atari or Coleco? Now I'm confused,,. several articals concerning the whole Atair/Coleco Donkey Kong licence isue pointed toward the disk vs cartridge issue... (rather than computer vs game console rights, which would have gotten confused in either case with the Adam being compatible with ColecoVision) I'll have to go find the sourses on that. (I know wiki mentions it in several articles, but that's not a primary sourse) Looking arround it looks like a bunch of companies were selling it on several platforms (a bunch just on the 2600), more complex than I'd initially though. http://www.atariguide.com/2/209b.htm

I don't think that would have been possible though, Coleco secured the rights to the Cartridge based version, while Atari had the disk version (and tape?). Hence why coleco could put it on the Adam (technically they didn't really do that, the Adam was compatible with ColecoVision, so any CV game would automatically be an Adam game). Inless they released a disk (or maybe tape) drive for the 5200, but that could have just confused things. (as add-ons have done in other cases historically) Plus, disks (and tape especially) have the disadvantages of load times, defeating the simple pick-up-and-play nature.

Anyway it's probably a lot more reliable than Wikipedia's page (which doesn't even have clock speeds), oddly I don't see any mention of the additional J-RISC "RCPU" that Wiki lists as well as has been brought up several times on this boards... Anyway, a big part of swapping the CPU is a quick fix for the problems, building proper tools would take time they didn't have, though I suppose the initial launch could be of 68k dependent CD based games with proper J-RISC tools being developed with high priorety. But an 020 would be more fool proof. (even if they put the tools on high priorety there could be significant delays, particularly making workarounds for all the bugs -though as Gorf has mentioned, some are surprisingly simple, like hardly any work had been attempted for creating a software workaround) With the bug fixes, added buffering to the blitter, and dedicated memory banks for CPU, Tom, and Jerry, you wouldn't have the 68k bogging down the system either (an 020 would still be more powerful of course, an 010 could be slightly helpful as well), it would be working on its own bus, as would Tom and Jerry, though from what kskunk already mentioned on this, adding multiple, dedicated busses could significantly impact cost. I tend to agree about the advantages of CD's and the issues of add-ons/upgrades for game consoles. (though Sega's examples have other issues tied to them) If anything, provisions for RAM expansion would have been nice (for a CD based console) This was handled fairly succesfuly on the N64 (granted it's choice of RAM facilitated this) and to a lesser extent on the Saturn. (which expanded it via a cartridge bus) http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/cons.../jag2specs.html (Jag II Specs) http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/cons...aguar/jag2.html (Jag II) There are some odd things in those specs that don't seem quite right though... 68EC020 at 26.59 MHz (that seems like it's pushing it into the overclocked range as I'm pretty sure the EC020 only went up to 25 MHz) Another being the RAM IC size, 1024 kB... The standard RAM IC sizes go in multiples of 4 (starting at 1 kbit and going upward), the Jag has 4x 512 kB DRAM chips (4 Mbit or 1x4^6 kbits), the next size up being 2 MB (16 Mbit), which it would be perfectly logical for the Jag II to use as it could have the same layout as the Jag with 4x 16-bit 2 MB DRAMs on a 64-bit data bus. The CoJag had a 33 MHz R3000. (all except the 25 MHz EC020 powered Area 51) Also, I think the Jag I chipset was intended to run at 40 MHz. (though at that speed RAM gets expeisive, kskunk mentioned that an increase to ~32/33 MHz could have been reasonable in this regard, and have the added bonus of allowing a 16 MHz 68k/010/020 to be run at full speed instead of 13.3 MHz)

BTW those slow moving enemies in X-Wing aren't combat craft (the ones that look like a star trek TNG shuttle upside down), thy're boarding craft (can't remebcer the name, but a troop ship with simple offensive weapons mainly for disabling enemy transports/shuttles -single laster and single ion cannon iirc) And those big H-shaped ones not putting up any fight are freighters, sitting ducks that just take a lot of hits to take down. The Gun Boats are tough (multi-winged darker ships), slightly slower and less maneuverable than an X-Wing (closer to a Y-Wing but a bit faster), tougher than an X-Wing (and unlike Tie Fighters/Bombers, has shields), and very well armmed. (both missiles/torpedoes and several lasters, at least 4 iirc, plus some ion cannons -ion damages sheilds and disables but won't do hull damage) Tie fighters are as fast as X-WIngs (at normal power settings, diverting power to or from an X-Wing's shields/lasers effects this), much more nimble but also far more vulnerable, only carying twin lasers, light hull, and no shielding. (generally 2 direct laster hits takes one down) Then there's many more B-wing, Y-wing, A-wing, and enemies like Tie Bombers and Interceptors (not to mentioned advanced), but I digress. Not to mention Iron Soldier II. (Battlemorph isn't too shabby either) SkyHammer is neat, but the short draw distance really hurts it.

So your original statement was just an exaggeration? In that case, you really should have assed a Graphically speaking I think Phase Zero is the best example for the Jag. (of course it's unreleased, but it seems like it was pretty damn close to completion) Now on the Blizard comment... Lucas Arts (Lucasfilm Games), Origin Systems, or Sierra > Blizard.

Yeah, that's on my list, I've still got a bunch of oldies to play through though, Wing Commander (I'm not sure if 1/II will really hold my interest, maybe...), I'm definitely planning on playing through III and IV I got a few months back. (DOS IV for ~$4 at good will CIB with trading card! III off ebay in Jewl cases only) Recently picked up Tie Fighter (disc only), I've had Tie 95 for ages, but, despite the "upgrades," the old 1995 DOS CD ROM edition ROCKS! Not sure when I'll get around to these, and I'm trying to decide whether to get FS1+2 or just the 2nd one. (which tends to get the most praise) I don't think he brought up the radars, that was me (inless I missed an earlier post), and yess, that's certainly a nice feature I wish Wing commander would have adopted. (though it might have broken canon) As to personal experience, it's much easier for you to get a copy of X-wing (DOS CD-ROM version specifically, the re-done '98 version isn't comperable IMO, not as good gameplay wise and more graphically advanced than either game being discussed, being a Win95 direct X game opposed to X-wing's stunning 8-bit VGA graphics) Seriously, look around on Ebay and you should find a copy of the game for under $5 shipped. (maybe less if just the disc, finding the instructions might be more difficult, but you can always look up a walkthrough or FAQ -haven't seen a scanned instruction manual online though) I agree, Graphically they aren't that much different, X-Wing's definitely got a smaller on-screen palette and master palette (8-bit/18-bit caompared to the Jag's respective 16-bit/24-bit), as for resolution I'm not sure what X-Wing's running at, 320x200, 320x240, 640x400? (Was Doom 320x200 or 640x400, X-Wing looks about the same) Otherwise, both use Gouraud shaded polygons with very limited textures (not sure about BS, but the only "texturing" on X-Wing, of Tie Fighter for that matter, are shaded polygon decals) BS is definitely more colorful, X-Wing having a lot of grays, but then again, they're different styles, later (far more graphically advanced) Star Wars games (like X-Wing Alliance), not to mention the original movie models, have a lot of gray/metalic colors too. If you compare the 1993 floppy disc release, it's worse off as the highest polygon count models (high detail) aren't available and there's only flat shading. (Again, 1994 CD release rocks) The '98 re-make sucks, biggest problem being the music, but the entire game has a different feel. (not that the XvT engine isn't any good, it's great for XvT, but the way it's applied to X-Wing and Tie Fighter's Win95 editions ruins them IMO) Also, I see very little difference in the AI between the old DOS games and revamped versions. Again, it's a lot easier to get X-Wing than for others to get BattleSphere. (and if you're a fan of the genre I highly reccomend it, though Tie Fighter tends to get more props -even Gametrailers respects it -#2 in their best Star Wars games of all time) I've been playing X-Wing since I was around 5 years old (~1995), but I really can't argue either way as I have no experience with BS, and I don't feel gameplay footage is adequate. Also, does BS have a dynamic soundtrack? (like one theme for no action, one for when fighting starts, ones for when enemy or freindly forces arrive, one for when you kill a target, one for when you loose a freindly craft, and a victory theme?) Also you have to look at things in different scenarios, 1 on 1 dogfights probably being the best for assessing individual AI, then there's massive group dogfights, or scenarios with battling capitol ships and fighters, fighters escorting a capatal ship and/or transports, fighters raiding an enemy convoy or supporting heavier bomber durring a raid. What kind of tactics are involved in BS, are there limited weapons, multiple weapons, energy management?

Yep, I found the site too, with \"Collectors Series\" clearly displayed: http://hotfilms.org/games/star-wars-x-wing...ies-257272.html Here\'s a real screen shot: Not the best example though. I totally agree about the Jagpad (especially the pro controller), the keypad is great for that kind of stuff. One weak point might be the d-pad (no analog controll), but still better than those suckers playing with the keyboard or mouse. Edit, this one might be a bit better, still not much action though: Is X-Wing really in 320x200? I could have sworn it was higher res... (It\'s full screen with dosbox set to 640x480, but bordered heavily in 800x600) I\'ve never played Battlesphere (Don\'t even own a Jag, but if I did, I highly doubt I\'d be among the select few to get a copy) and I\'ve never played it (emulation would be the only way short of visiting someone who owned it). And I wouldn\'t feel comfortable pirating, especially something like that even if it was available (except maybe to just try it and delete it), there wasn\'t any kind of demo version available for download, was there? I can definitely say the AI in X-Wing gets pretty tricky at times, particularly once you\'re deep into the 2nd tour of duty. (though It\'s often the overall scenerios with escort duties, swarms of enemy fighters, bombers, and gunboats to think about, even tough using the involnerability/unlimited weapons cheats -which for some reason aren\'t letting me complete levels when playing in Dos box, never a problem on Dos, Win95, or Win98/XP with VDMSound... Maybe they\'ve fixed that in a newer version of dosbox) Anyway, I have no way to really compare things, X-Wing definitely seems to have more complex AI than the original Wing Commander, but I\'ve only recently got into that, and not particularly far, so... Got WC III and IV too, have yet to try them though. (after X-Wing, I find the single radar verry limiting, the dual foreward and aft displays are perfect!) I will also say that I tend to agree with claims that Rogue Squadron\'s AI is rather simplistic, it\'s more of an arcade style game, not even full 3D freedom of motion and restricted environments. (even in RS III: Rebel Strike on the GC it\'s simple, and the levels are limiting, there are some weird glitched with the full 3D controlls, and the only decent dogfight will be in multiplayer against another person) That\'s saying something though, this game isn\'t focused on dept or AI. (even something like Crimson Skies on PC, some nice dogfights, but pretty predictable AI, only really challenging when at a disadvantage in performance or numbers, still made for cool dogfights) Supposedly X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter\'s Balance of Power expansion career is regarded as the best in the series (though Tie Fighter is often argued), I\'ve picked that up but have yet to try it either. Edit, as Gorf often says, screenshots are cheap, and while it really can\'t demonstrate the AI (otherwise I could judge BBS from gameplay vids), at least people can see it\'s not really the same as Star Fox (though I\'m a big fan of that game too, I\'d never compare the gameplay, let alone the AI ) (good ol' Sound Blaster 16 -Supported General Midi and even the MT-32, but I'm really partial to the SB, though the MT-32 is usually better, this one -especially the CD version- has really nice SB midi! I don't think I've heard the Gravis Ultrasound rendition though, still I think I'd prefer the nostalgic sound of the SB's FM Synthesis) Edit: I kind of picked this at random (the first one that came up in a search), but man, that's a perfect example, really frantic action.

Yes, still plenty enough against a 66 mhz Jag II. DC also allows vertex shading as well as g-shade and rgb. Yeah, got that just pointing out that little discrepancy. (didn't change the argument though) Too expensive in 1997. Woha, the Jag II would have been too expensive in '97? Sorry if I wasn't clear again, but I wasn't suggesting that the Jag II (or Dreamcast for that matter) should have been DVD based, but rather, that by launching in 1997, they'd be early enough to not really have to worry about competition from the DVD based consoles for a good while. (especially PS2) By that time they could have the JagIII (or whatever they'd have named it) a good way along in development. As to the Jag II, I'd expect something alike a normal 4x speed CD Drive.

Umm that looks like the (craptacualr IMO) remade 1998 version of X-Wing from the windows 95 "collectors series" using Direct X. (I think it was also released as "X-Wing 95," I know Tie Fighter was as "Tie 95") These remakes used the same engine as X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter, with fully textured graphics and much higer polygon counts. Though the Targeting screen threw me for a sec (I'd have expected it to use the 3D window as Tie95 did, haven't played X-Wing 95 personally), but the yeallow target box arround the targeted Tie Bomber was definitely not a feature of the original 1993 or 1994 Collector's CD ROM release. (the models are also far too detailed) I say "craptacular" because they strip a lot for the atmosphere away from the original games, I love the simplistic, untextured, decaled, polygon models (G-Shaded on X-Wing CD and all versions of Tie-Fighter), and the original cutscenes, the added voices and improved models of the original 1994 CD-ROM were great, minor improvements that really just made things better (even the midi was a little improved). But the 1998 versions... in addition to new models and cutscenes, they removed the Midi tracks! Now this would have been OK if they replaced that neat dynamic iMUSE midi with dynamicly slected wav files (as the updates to the old Wing Commander games did, as did X-Wing vs. Tie and X-Wing Alliance), but no, they put a looping, 17 minut long compilation of John William's scores from the original trilogy. Anyway, you're not comparing apples to apples. (granted Battlesphere technically came out later than XvT, but the hardware was far older) I'm willing to bet the Jag could handel the original X-Wing in some form, or at least with the Jag CD. In fact, due to the simple models, use of gouraud shading w/out textures (actually I think the 1993 floppy version was just flat shaded), and lots of 2D effects used (laster, explosions, debris all scaling bitmaps), it would have been a prome gmae to port to the Jaguar. (getting it to fix on a cartridge of economical size might be difficult, of course you could optimize and use compression to get it to fit, not a problem for the Jag CD though, then you could include the improved CD-Rom edition) You might want to cut X-Wing down from the PC version's 640x480 though.

Our local radioshack has a lot of stuff toward the center, lots of cables (some video game A/V cables, lots of different RCA cables, phono cables, adaptors, splitters, switches, etc), but also a decent section with resistors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, voltage regulators, potentiometers, switches, etc. And other standard stuff like TV converter boxes, mulimeters, power supplies, chargers, lead acid rechargeable batteries, and standard NiMH/Alkaline bateries. About 1/2 the store is dedicate to cell phones and some computer & TV accessories though. (including some monitors iirc) Not too many electronic toys anymore though. I miss the days when you'd see RC cars, electronics kits, and some video game stuff. (I'm only 19, so I'm talking about ~10-15 years ago) Hell, they still had manual video game switchboxes (with the pronged attachments in addition to co-ax) at least as recent as 9 years ago. (picked up one to hook up a VCS back in late 2000 iirc)

yes, I do remember some of that, however when people played the cv with that crappy controller disc, they weren't so enthused. Ms. Pac would have been nice or a version of Gyruss. Never got the attraction to DK. It was very hard and not very rewarding. Just having the 5200 version of Pac Man would have been nice as it's awesome compated to the half assed 2600 version. (iirc they did end up switching to Pac Man eventually, but it should have been the game from the start) Of course, it's double sided as Pac man is one of the wors games to shocase the 5200 controller. (could the keypad be used instead of the stick, like frogger) And the Coleco controller didn't have the crappy disc, that was the Intellivision, the CV had the short stalk, knobby, joystick, which worked well as a thumbstick. (except that one's hand tended to cover the buttons, similar problem with using the 5200 stick as a thumbstick)

A jump over the DC in the market you mean, right? The DC was much more than a Jaguar II. 300MHZ SH4 with a smoking graphics chips set. Now clock the Jaguar at half that, give each RISC its own space in memory and a nice 400mhz Coldfire type chip and then you'd have something. Yes, in terms of release dates (specifically in the US market), and it's a 200 MHz SH4 btw. And to clarify on the DVD comment (you didn't mention it, but reading my comment, it's rather vague), I meant the Jag II not having DVD support wouldn't be a major factor if it came out in '97. (lack of DVD support being one of the things that hurt the Dreamcast agains the PS2) I also seem to remember you mentioning that the Jag II would still hold some advantages in terms of 2D performance over the Dreamcast. (on some other old topic I was looking at a while back; correct me if I'm wrong) Would adding the CD-ROM support be the least important thing then? (less than a 25 MHz 020 over a 13.3 MHz one) I know adding a CD drive (even a 1x speed one) would probably cost much more than a 25 MHz EC020 in '93, and even a slower 020 would still be adding cost over the current 68k as well, but including a CD drive would mean cutting as much else as possible. (keeping the 68k still wouldn't be a good option inless Atari managed to get good tools out to developers) Having CD's should have a significant effect on the console's life span as well, and allow it to have games ported to it that would otherwise be imposible. (like Myst) More importantly, and as mentioned many times before, CD's are much more attractive to developers (3rd parties especially) due to the flexibility and low cost (larger profits on cheaper games). Then again there are some advantages to cartridges too. (namely being able to use ROM where you'd otherwise need to have more RAM) Then again, if they focused on correcting the biggest issues with the cartridge based Jag (25 MHz 020 and maybe double buffered blitter if they had time), and it had a good launch (decent advertizing and launch lineup, and better negotiations with developers), there's always the Jag CD to introduce later on, along with the Duo. Getting a high adoption rate would be necessary to really switch over though. (the main advantages is the original base unit's cost is kept down, and with the CD unit added later, the cost will have fallen, and a 2x speed drive is possible) Perhaps if the released the Duo simultaneously with the add-on, and cut hardware prices as low as possible, it would have helped. (good advertizing is important of course) They could deal with the price cutting by that time due to the money from the Sega settlement and from 3rd party licencing fees. (do what many others did by this time, sell the hardware at cost, or even take a loss, and make all your money through software -something CD's were again advantageous for) That's the thing the 3DO really screwed up on... In terms of the Jag CD, if thinking ahead, they probably could have elliminated the need for a seperate power supply as well, put the power lines on the cart slot for the CD unit to connect to and pack the standard Jag with an AC adaptor powerful enough to support the CD unit as well, you could then even standardize the power supply for the Duo as well. (not really a technical matter, but in terms of convience for the consumer) On this side of things though, you start to get into other non-technical related things like the look of the CD unit itsself (though I personally don't really mind it), the cartridge design (the weird handel), and the controllers. In terms of controllers, the shape and layout is good, but having the pro controllers standard would have been preferred (or at least have them standard by the time the Duo is released). I'd keep the keypad though as it does add some flexifility other consoles lacked, particularly for ports of PC games that required numerous keyboard functions. (on a game like Doom, it's easy anough to set the weapons to cycle through instead of numbered, but something complex like X-Wing would be impossible to properly convert to most consoles simply for all the multitasking you have to do- throttle controll, cycling through targets, switching targeting modes, relaying commands, energy management, etc)

sd32, I really wasn't sure on the 2D thing, especially in terms of traditional "2D" games, I was thinking more in terms of psudo 3D games like Wolfenstein, or games with lots of scaled sprites and a scaling backgound layer. (like many previous arcade systems, the SNES's -simple- Mode 7, or some stuff on the Sega CD) Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong though.

So going by the quote/figures on here the Colocovision and 5200 sold substancially less than the 7800 (>3.7 million by Curt Vendel's recentle posted sales charts) diespite its limited library, late release, and limited marketing/advertizements. (granted it was around a lot longer, from '86-92, not counting the limited '84 release, granted sales after '89 tapered off sharply, with less than 100,000 sold in 1990 '87/88 being by far the strongest years, though '89 wasn't too bad, and '86 was relatively small, but it was only on the market for less than 1/2 of that year)

Even if they're in-stock items are pretty limited, RS should have a nice catalog to order parts from, plus their website. (for in-stock stuff Frys still tends to be a lot better though) Anyway, the voltage shouldn't be a problem to get right (+9v is especially common and there's always universal adaptors), it's the amperage, if these machines pull a lot of amps (which I'd assume judging by the massive power bricks), many 3rd party or universl adaptors won't work as they tend to have low apmerage rathings. (often well below 1 amp) Those 3rd party sega "compatible" power supplies for example won't run a Sega CD, the stock sega power supply outputting 9V (or 10V) and 1.2 amps. (and While the Genesis will work with somewhat less power, the CD unit most certainly will not) Something exotic like the CV's ac adaptor is another problem though, as you mention, and the Intelivision (I) has that built-in power supply. (good for not losing, more of a pain to replace)