kool kitty89

He did destroy a 32X unit in his 32X review, though I'm not sure if it was working or not. Some big sega fans fount that pretty funny, other not so much. Either it wasn't working or it was the spare he got at the flea market for a few dollars (with no hook ups), he does tend to avoid destroying good stuff (using "stunt" cartridges, common, very poor games like Back to the Future for stuf like that), not sure if the 32x fits into this category though. Anyway, I'm not sure that was an entire 32x, it may have just been the shell (I'll have to look again), he could have kept the innards for spare parts or to have someone make a homebrewed Neptune for him.

"stronger processor" perhaps, if you mean in the sence of the 68000, definitely, that's been a key peice of this discussion, though it didn't necessarily need an additional processor, the original plan for the system was to have no generalpurpose CPU at all, but Atari management pressed the engineers to add a familiar chip to make development easier (and probably allow it to be released sooner), unsing the 68k cloged the system though. The main (and simplest/most practical) alternative is replacing the 68000 with a 68EC020, though had they gone with the originally planned layout (no CPU, just Tom and Jerry and a unified cache iirc) and made some decent tools (they don't even have to be amazing, just something more useful than what they historically released), and make the tools readily available to developers. As for the "sound chip" tha't not as valid a statement. The Jaguar's sound system was comprised of 2 16-bit DACs for outputting the sound and Jerry, the sound processor (actually multipurpose, not dedicated to sound alone). A very flexible arrangement but limited by what the programmers do with it, I think a lot was done in the Amiga's MOD format, there are a couple exaples of FM synthesis as well (similar to what a Sound Blaster or Sega Genesis does), but it could do a lot more. I think Gorf has some music/sound demos that show this.

Weren't those projects developed well after Warner taking over Atari? They were prototyped then shelved, but I'm not sure why, given the timeline it may have had to do with the crash. The information about Gaza abd Sierra is rather vague, but they could have been among projects that werepostponed while Morgan was restructuring Atari during the crash. (we'll never know if those efforts wuld have been successful, NATCO etc, as the Tramiel deal ended it)

How do the 68000 coputer projects fit into this then? (ie Sierra and Gaza)

The Rolland synthesiszers (MT-32 family) were quite different from later general midi wavetable sound cards (the current standard, though quality varies significantly depending on hardware) The MT-32 did more than just "wavetable" or sample-based synthesis (like SNES or Amiga), it had actual synthesis capabilities rather than just changing the pitch of a fixed sample. In addition to that, it was not limited by its onboard set of samples in ROM, but could also accept additional samples into RAM. (which software could take advantage of) Now, in some ways the SNES and Amiga are similar as well, they use sample based synthesis (changing pitch of various digitized audio samples), but don't have any hardcoded data whatsoever, software provides this and loads it into RAM (the SNES for example, has 64 kB of didicated SRAM to store compressed sample data for the audio subsystem) Many general midi sound cards offer playback of external samples as well (I think some may have supported an Amiga like tracker through this as well, though maybe this was in software), of course digital audio playback was a key feature of the original Soundblaster line as well. (with the later SB 16 it was in "CD quality" 16-bit 44.1 kHz sampled stereo)

I think you're right that 1982 was the correct moment to act. Commodore did act. The C64 may have been the perfect 'console' of that generation, at least based on sales and number of published games from 1982-1986. Too bad they screwed things up with the 1200XL... Had they had the 800/600XL out at competitive price points and marketing compared to Commodore, perhaps the A8-bit line would have fared better against it. (the C64 certainly has its advantages, but as far as Graphics go the A8's are good enough, though the resolution's a bit low, and POKEY sounds great -granted many people love/hate the SID, the C64's got a smaller palette to work from as well) The hardware wasn't as cutting edge as it was back in '79, but it would be more accessible and affordable now (and the 600/800XL rectified many issues of the 400/800 designs as well as the botched 1200XL), and of course they'd have the Atari label on them. In fact, they may have been able to get away with promoting the A8-bit line (cheaper 600XL particularly) as their new main game system, and the successor to the 2600. (rather than going the modified XEGS like route, though that's basicly the same idea) Probably come out with an adaptor module as well to counter Coleco. There would still be the problem of price though, if they couldn't get the 600XL down low enough that could cause trouble. (however, given that it'd generally be similar to what the 5200 had on board, but with a significantly smaller case, built-in keyboard, smaller/DE-9 controller ports, and the Parallel+Serial ports, cost shouldn't be that much different) The 600XL being the game system with computer capabilities, and the 800XL being the higher end machine. (rather like what the 400 and 800 were originally intended to be) The joystick could still be somewhat limiting, though there's no reason they couldn't have introduced a new analog joystick with more buttons. (or a digital joystick using one or both pot lines for additional action buttons) Certainly, that's the major differences in these systems, that and how the memory is mapped (and how much RAM is onboard), but the Graphics in particular is probably the most significant. (granted the memory mapping would effect this too) In the sound department POKEY was pretty competitive with most of the 3rd generations consoles. (the Master System's PSG was rather simple) Plus, there's no need to change to a different processor architecture necessarily, specifically something like the 68008 (which is similar to or slower than a lot of older 8-bit procs at similar clock speeds, the main advantage being some of its additional features, the larger address bus, and forewards compatibility with the full 68000). The 650x line is rather good to stick with I think (from my understanding, it had a relatively simple and flexible instruction set and is relatively cycle efficient), even for later machines it could be a good choice. (like on the TG-16, basicly a fast 6502 with integrated bank switching to provide 2 MB of address space) I think a major reason Nintendo went with a custom 65816 derivative over a fast 65C02 was the address bus (24-bit, same as the 68000 and 80286), then again they probably could have gone with someting like NEC did with integrted bank switching, but I'm not sure what other issues there were.

Why would you need a 10-bit CPU architecture? (I beleive the programming difficulty came from the new, and rather uncommon archetecture, the Intellivision had similar drawbacks) Existing 8-bit designs were perfectly adequate for what they needed, the 6502 would be simple to configure for a 6507/VCS compatibility mode (as with the 7800), hence whay they continued to be used for the ColecoVision, Master System, NES, and TurboGrafx 16. Other parts of the hardware, like graphics/video are far more important in this respect. (hell, if you went with the ANTIC like chip for TIA and kept the old 6507, you'd still have around double the CPU resourse available of the 2600, of course you'd still lack the additional 3 address lines and intterupt capabilities of the 6502 -and more with Atair's custom 6502C which reduced the number of necessary support chips -mainly a cot saving measure for the system I beleive)

Sound Blaster is sometimes poorly ustilzed, though rember there was an array of variations of the early SB line (through the SB-16), and the Adlib cad was similar (the original SB has the same OPL2 FM synth chip, all subsequent ones being compatible as well, the main difference being the 15-pin gameport/midi-out and the digital sound channel with dedicated "digital sound processor") For the Sound Blaster line specifically, there are plenty examples of good music on it, sometimes better than the Amiga (fairly often if the game was originally created for the PC, occasionally PC ports sounded fairly good as well), of course the high-end professional Roland synthesizers (MT-32 and compatible/derivatives) were the standard for high quality music in PC games. (very expensiveexpencive of course, though very high quality, often symilar to the redbook CD audio tracks in later CD-ROM re-releases) The Soundblaster (along with similar FM synthesis of the early Adlib and later Proaudio Spectrum cards) was pretty much the standard for PC gaming prior to common general midi cards (and CD/digital audio). Some examples: (Space Quest III)Amiga version for comparison: (wing commander) (WC Amiga version) (Secret of Monkey Island) (Amiga Monkey Island) (X-Wing, Collector's CD-ROM, improved midi over the floppy version, unusually, the Rolland rendition isn't as superior as usual, perhaps they were catering more to general midi by then)(I'd post links to the roland version, but that's really not neccessary for the discussion, thery're not har to find on youtube though) FM synthessis is just a form of synthesized sounds, a very wide range of variations in this, Yamaha offerred a wide array of FM Sound chips (and others, or FM synth chips that included other features as well, like PSS/PSG and digital sample playback), many being directly related to eachother, and some directly compatible as well. Like with any format, poor utilization will give sub par performance. The Genesis tends to sound a bit different from adlib/soundblaster generally speaking, this is partially due to the Genesis featuring the PSG chip and the YM2612 having the 8-bit DAC (which is somethimes used for sample playback in music as well, particularly percussion, occasionally vocals) Many arcade systems in the late '80s and early '90s uused Yamaha FM chips as well (many of Sega's system boards, including the System 16 the Genesis is derived from), the Neo Geo is another notable example. For the Genesis specifically, here's kind of a random example: (ice cap zone sonic 3, one of the songs Michael Jackson was rumered to have been involved with) Now, more specifically, I suggested the YM2413 alternatively as it's pretty much the smallest, cheapest, most cut-down of Yamaha's chips available arround the time (actually a cut-down derivative of the OPL series common to the Adlib/SB cards), notably it was used in Yamaha keyboards, sound expansion modules for MSX computers and Sega's SG-1000 Mk.III, as well as built into Japanese master systems (basicly the same as the Mk.III, but with several add-ons incorporated into the Wester SMS case design). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWc9DxgbnT4 (R-Type) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4NM_01z-7s (Double Dragon) Interesting, but one possible reason is that the Handy chipset may not have worked well in conjunction with the 68000, can't remember the specifics, but this was brought up in a thread on the Lynx a while back. (possibly issues with the ST's display hardware as well, though that wasn't part of the Lynx discussion) In the context of the Lynx sound chip, you'd need to either dedicate a lot of CPU time, or add a dedicated sound processor to do sample-based synthesis (like the Amiga or SNES), the former not being practical for games, the latter adding to cost (depending on what you used specifically, maybe if they got a good deal on some Z80's or 650x -possibly the latter in conjunction with lynx production in the case of a 65C02; probably not a DSP, inless they could find one cheap enough) I think the STe's added sound hardware if fine though in combination with the proposed FM synthesis chip (onboard from the original model), in addition to the old YM2149, could have been a pretty nice set-up. Yeah, it is rather simple, basibly the same chip used for sound in the Intelevision and Vectrex. (as well as many home computer designs like the ZX Spectrum and MSX) Also relatively similar to the Texas Instruments PSG chip in the ColecoVision, Master System, and Genesis. (also common and used in various things) Still, it could be a nice addition to another sound chip like an FM synthesis one, the PSG often adds some nice contrast to Genesis music. (though honestly I think a POKEY would be even better in this respect, it couldn't fulfull the 2149's I/O functions in its current form)

The N64 was biggest as afamily friendly/"kiddie" system, though there were some great "hardcore" games too. (quite a few FPS's, including the system's top seller -Goldeneye), best for that userbase plus many past nintendo fans (particularly for the exclusives), and finally for party games. (large number of 4-player titles, including most of the FPS's) No arguing that Sony beat the crap out of the market in the US, and it was about the same in Japan. (N64 was significantly less popular than in the US, but Saturn did fairly well, so it kind of balanced things out) Something repeted and then some by the PS2. (same for game libraries in both cases) I was about 7 when it launched and we'd only gotten our Super NES a few months before (or it might have been that chrismas, I can't remember if it was in '95 or '96), anyway, we didn't end up getting one until christmas of '99, but all my friends who had newer consoles had an N64 (several had gotten them within a year of launch), but this may be the case for me. (of course I was in the prime age group for Nintendo's US market durring the N64's lifecycle) Strangely enough, I remember more people owning Saturns in the ~'95-99 period than PS's, usually teens or young adults (freinds of parents or siblings of my friends), wasn't until arround 2000 that I really heard talk about the playstation, maybe just a coinsidence, or the Saturn was more memorable (expecially the 3D controller). I remember several people who'd gotten into the newer systems even later than my family who'd gone with the PSone as a budget console. I do remember plenty of Playstation commercials in the late '90s/early 2000s, as well as the N64 ones, but the Dreamcast ones from around 2000 really seem to stick out in my memory. (I can't remember seeing any Saturn ones) Comparing sales figures, it did relatively well, in the top 10 best selling of all time (granted, #10 if you include handhelds) ahead of the Genesis/Mega Drive, Atari 2600, and so far the Xbox 360 as well.

Yeah, providing compatibility can be limiting on the design, however, the cancelled "10-bit" 3200 "Super Stella/PAM" was supposed to be backwards compatible (from the limited available for it), and that was supposedly planned for release some time in 1981, so they seem to have shown interest in this. (even if it was at the insistance of management and not the engineers) And there's certainly plenty of examples of this, specifically in the VG industry, Sega was very accomidating in this respect up until the Saturn. (despite the very limited success of their home game systems in Japan, the SG-1000 Mk.III/Master System were backwards compatible with the original SG-1000 and the Genesis/MD was backwards compatible with the Master system via a -largely passive- adaptor, this extending to America snd Europe as well in the form of the Power Base Converter) Of course there are much more extreme examples of continuing compatibility, x86/MS DOS compatibility lasted a very long time, with Win9x OS's still built on top of DOS. (and even XP having rudimentary support for DOS programs, more tacked-on though, not integral to the system) Along with this of course went compatibility of x86 processors. (of course, in both cases, there's significant limitations imposed by doing this, especially given x86 wasn't the best architecture to begin with) The most important reasons for including this feature (from a competitive and consumer standpoint) was that new customers, not having yet bought an Atari system, coud buy the new system, and have the entire existing 2600 library at their disposal. Also, there's the problem with Coleco offering compatibility via their adaptor add-on (followed by Mattel), and offering out of the box compatibility would one up the competition. I've heard that Warner did some consumer studies (surveys, focus groups, etc) before releasing the 5200 as well, but largely ignored them. Then again, with the failure of the 3200 design, mounting pressure from Mattel, and the ColecoVision on the horizon, the 5200 seems to be more of a rushed quick fix than anything else. The controllers are more or less designed to one up the intellivision's with 16-direction disc and keypad. Perhaps there was internal issues with the computer section of Atari as well, preventing a direct XEGS-ish conversion of the 8-bit series. Yeah, that'd be another reason the A8-bit line wouldn't have necessarily been a good idea in pure console form as a successor to the 2600 ~1980, instead of breaking into the home computer market. (from what I've read, the 8-bit chipset was originally being designed specifically for a home game system, later being worked into computer consoles) That would be one ting about having a more direct evolution of the 2600 hardware, such as adding an ANTIC type chip, full 6502, and some RAM. (even with just TIA for sound it could be significantly better than on the 2600, due to the increased CPU time, hence why 7800 TIA-only sound is often significantly better than the 2600 -there's even some cases where TIA+7800 music is a bit better than the coesponding game on A8/5200) Without modifying the controller connections, they could even have added another 2 buttons (with the standard digital joystick) via the pot lines.

How so? The Saturn (outside of Japan), would be the biggest failure of the mainstream consoles in that period. (and had it not been for the previous success and popularity of the Genesis/MD in US/EU that it drew on, it probably would have done a lot worse -assuming the same mistakes were made) Now, as a compeditor to the Jaguar, not too much of an issue, it coming out nearly 3 years later and (had the Jag done well) the Jag 2 would be on the horizon, probably out by '97. Plus the N64 was relatively weak in 2D, granted this wan't "in" at the time, but there are many arcade games (fighters particularly) that were still 2D, which the Jag could handel masterfully, and the N64 was weakest at.

The music and sound were decent in Checkered Flag, and the graphics are pretty good, better than Genesis's 16-color Virtua Racing for sure, and smoother looking than the 32x version (though that's a great version, adding a lot to the Arcade original) but besides the controlls (which you can eventually adapt to somewhat, though it'll screw you up when switching to another racing game) there are some other issues. It really is a bit simplistic and boring, the AI is tolerable, though too easy at times (which kind of comensates for the controlls), the trak design if fine, but the actual gameplay style is rather bland, it seems unfinished. There's no campaign/career/championship mode to progressively play through tracks in a competition, and after playing a single race, it just says "Winner" and shows the winning car (whether if that's you or not), rather than just placing your position and doing somthing special for 1st/2nd place. (the fastest lap times are shown though, but that seems rather simplistic as well)

Do you mean the knowledge that NES quality hardware existed in the world or that people in the USA could run out and buy their own NES? For any young newbies out there reading this thread who may not know, the NES wasn't available nationwide in the USA until 1986 I think he meant the hardware was out at the consumer level by this time, the Famicom launched in mid 1983, granted it took a while for them to get it to the US. (due in part to the delays with negotiations with Warner/Atari, and the subsequent gaming crash in the US) They could have done that in 1980 or 81. That would have been a wise move, probably, however it would have alienated the original installed base of 2600 users. Remember that videogames were really just out of the starting gate by then. Even the 2600 was a big purchase decision. People were not really ready for the hardware upgrade treadmill which is so routine today. If they were going to offer a next gen system it was going to have to be truly next gen and we all know how that played out. The main advantages of a 6502 (or Atari's custom 6502C) would be the higher clock speed and interrupt capabilities, addressing really isn't that big of a deal for mass produced games with bank switching. (as was mentioned previously) I think they'd have to modify things somewhat to actually take advantage of the faster clock speed (so the 6502 wouldn't have to drop to 1.19 MHz as it did in the 7800). Without additional onboard RAM and with the CPU still driving the display, it would still be pretty limited. If you really wanted an updated system that was heavily derived from the 2600 hardware you'd add a decent amount of RAM, and most importantly, a dedicated chip to drive TIA's graphics. (equivelent to ANTIC in the 8-bit computer line) Now, withoth any other modificaions you'd still be limited to TIA's 2 players+missiles (compared to 4 with CTIA/GTIA) and TIA's audio, but you'd now have far more CPU time (driving the display ate up at least 1/2 of the 6507's processing power) on top of the 6502's faster clock speed. (having the ANTIC like chip woould also mean there'd be no more "chasing the beam" for programmers) On top of this, keeping the original hardware would make backwards compatibility relatively simple and inexpensive. (and you could still use 7800-ish carts to add more pins without compromising 2600 cart compatiblity) A lot more pracical than including compatibility by tacking on 2600 hardware in addition to the new system's, or offering an adaptor module containing the 2600's hardware. Some of this was already brought up here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=146992

Do you mean Race Drivin'? (Atari Arcade game with super choppy ports on SNES and Genesis, among others) Similar to the preceding Hard Drivin' arcsde title. (also ported to Genesis in addition to numerous other platforms)

Maybe, though in '79 such a system could have been pretty expensive and probably more limited (probably less RAM than the 400/800's original 8 kB, not to mention the 5200's 16) Then again, they could have held back on releasing it for a while, fine tuning it and minimizing cost (compact, consolidated board and case, perhaps GTIA instead of CTIA from the stary, maybe even include backwards compatibility for the 2600 -without unnecessarily increasing cost -an add-on/modul would probably be more realistic) Relaease it by mid 1981 at the latest. (christmas of 1980 might be a bit too early cost wise, though perhaps not) Also, they could still have had their computer line derived from this chipset, though it would probably have been good to sit on releasing it for a while too, launch it with more RAM, a simpler deisgn, and without some of the problems of the 400/800 or the issues of the 1200XL. (smaller case and board, less RF sheilding, no membrade keyboard -chicklet probably wouldn't be good idea either, single cart slot, parallel port, and they probably didn't need 4 controller ports) Making it compatible with the game system's software might be a good idea too. (rather like the Adam, but without some of the other problems) Something like the 600/800XL would have been great as the original launch units. (or come out with someting like the 600 in ~80/81 and follow on with the 64 kB 800 by 1982, rather like the VIC20 and C64 except they'd be directly compatible) Maybe offer an expansion module to convert the game system into a full computer as well. Perhaps, but Atari wasn't Atari anymore by then anyway. It's probably just as well they didn't license the NES, because Atari was so screwed-up by then, they probably would have found some way to make the NES a complete flop, too. Negotiations with Nintendo were long dead by the time Tramiel acquired Atari. (and it apears Kassar was never serious about licencing the Famicom and was trying to screw Nintendo over, some mention a plan to get the exclusive licence to lock Nintendo out -though I highly doubt this would have worked and had it, a legal mess would have insued; so either this idea was abandoned or didn't go into place before Kassar left, either way they'd been trying to delay Nintendo as long as possible to avoid competition, and particularly, give the 7800 a head start)

Oh crap, you're right, I've been making an idiot out of myself... I should have taken another look inside one of my 2600's... (they're both in our storgage room at the moment na dwe've been doing some reorganizeng and it's kind of burried ATM). The cable on my Heavy Sixer is blue though, intestering that my light sixer (pretty sure it's a Hong Kong one) has what seems to be a nicer (and incompatible) cable. (the heavy's is a single peice flat plastic ribbon cable with flat aluminum pins, the light's has indivitual insulated wires fused together with a plastic conntector at either end) Anyway, thank you very much for that correction, that makes a whole lot more sense. Thanks for the nice explanation. So, had they not reserved the pin for the second ground they could have used the full 13-bit address bus. (or added a read/write line) How did they manage to include on-cart RAM expansion w/out a read/write line?

Sorry, kind of lost the conclusion of my pervious statemet. The differences in consoles tend to be related to the overall hadware, particularly the video hardware, rather than the CPU.

Maybe, or (assuming Warner made same mistakes) it would have gotten dragged into the crash, who knows? (or the crash hit befor it could come to market and then there's delays of Nintendo releasing it on thier own due to legal issues with Atari) Also remember a huge reason for the NES's success was marketing and unique/fresh games. (something the Famicom lacked early on and was still somewhat weak on the NES even in 1985 with their test market -until SMB came out in '86 along with the full launch)

Thanks for the information though. I was basing my assumptions on statements made in a discussion in Curt's Expansion Module Thread:

Umm, the design of the 8-bit computers (of which the 5200 is a derivative) was largely an evolution of the 2600's hardware, in some whys TIA is rather like 1/2 of CTIA/GTIA and 1/2 of POKEY, of course there's no ANTIC chip to go along with TIA, so the CPU takes up the slack. (and is thus much more limited) The backwards compatibility thing is kind of hit and miss, and is only really vaulable if it doesn't pot significant limits on the system and doesn't exxcessively add to cost. (the best case is a system specifically designed to encorporate compatibility in the new hardware, or include portions of the old hardware do facilitate this, and make some additional use of the old hardware other than just compatibility, like the TIA sound in the 7800 or Z80 sound CPU and PSG in the Genesis) At the time though, having 2600 out of the box for their new system would have been significant due to the Coleco (and following Mattel) clone hardware adaptors (and Gemini), as well as possibly helping with consumer confidence in Atari. There are several options for this, you could come out with something like the XEGS based on the Atari 400, and to minimize cost it could have used a single, consolidated board (or was the 400 already like this?), though I'm not sure how limiting 8 kB would be, going to the 5200's (and 600XL's) 16 kB may be necessary. (if few games required over 8 kB you might want to stick with that, but it would seem odd to put 16 kB in the 5200 otherwise) You'd still need the keyboard to provide compatibility with all the games. (or a keypad that features only the keys games actually used, or at least the ones most games used) Then possibly include a connection to provide expansion to a full Atari 8-bit computer via a plug-in module. (and a full keyboard replacing the keypad) THis would still have the backwards compatibility issue, but for one, you could feature a module like Coleco or Mattel and the system is compatible with the existing 8-bit games and expandable to a full computer. Alternatively they could have gone about the 5200 differently, made it more like the 7800, or planned 3200. Start with the 8-bit computer hardware (CTIA/GTIA, ANTIC, POKEY, 6502C), add TIA and RIOT for 2600 compatibility and allow the 6502C to drop down to 1.19 MHz. Use a cartridge connector similar to the 7800 and controller ports compatible with the 2600. (no keypad controllers, though you could still have something like the 7800's, or 3200's, with digital joystic and additional buttons -up to 3 using both pot lines and digital joystick, or you could have an analog joystic with up to 5 buttons). 2 controller ports is probably fine as well, particularly taking cost into account. Make the circuit board as compact as possible and the case likewise (nothing wrong with using the 2700's sleek wedge shape though). (cheaper to produce, package, and transport, and more convienent for customers) Another possible option is modifying and expanding the 2600 hardware itsself while maintaining compatibility, adding something like ANTIC to work in conjunction with TIA (along with more RAM) should have significantly improved things, particularly CPU time, though without modifying TIA you'd still be limited to 2 single color (without scanline palette swap) hardware sprites, not sure about backgrounds. (though you could modify TIA as well for more sprites, maybe more colors as well) Either modify TIA to include additional sound features, or add a POKEY as well, which could also handel I/O (either completely, or in addition to RIOT, handling analog/pot imputs instead of TIA -which only worked properly when in sync with video as in 2600 mode iirc, hence no paddles on 7800) Then upgrade the CPU to a 6502 (or 6502C, not sure if it would be useful though) and use 7800-like cartridges with the additional address space. (with the ANTIC like chip, you'd now have far more CPU time as well, in addition to a 50% clock speed up) New controllers are possible as well. (using the standard configuration, same as above, 3-buttons with digital stick, or up to 5 with analog) Finally, you could design something that could be added on to the 2600, a lock on cartridge or similar, rather like the supercharger (though AFIK all that did was supply bankswitched RAM which could load data off cassettes), or more lime Sega's 32x (but without the power supply and around the size of a normal cart, more like a game genie or Sonic a& Knuckles cart). You could include additional RAM and integraded bankswitching (of course, you'd need more pins on the new connector/carts for them to support more than 4 kB without them also being bankswitched), finally (and most importantly) add an enhancement chip that improves graphics and sound capabilities. (David Crane's Video Display Chip used in Pitfall 2 is a great example, 3 additional tone channels plus 1 percussion, and additional graphics capabilities -don't know of the spcifics though) Release the add-on as well as a new, integrated console (like Sega's planned Neptune), possibly offer new controllers as well, I don't think there's anything keeping the 2600 from supporting 2 additional buttons via the pot lines (keypads used thes already in a similar manner), or a 2-axis analog joystick with up to 5 buttons. (someone already adapted a 5200 controller to use as 2 paddles on marble madness) Then (particularly for this last option, which is rather limited compared to some others) put work into developing a true, successor console (which may or may not be backwards compatible) to come out in a few years. Maybe contract to GCC, come out with something using a MARIA like chip (maybe more advanced/enhanced), but with all it's own hardware otherwise, more RAM (possibly a dedicated bus for MARIA) and a more powerful CPU (a fast 65C02 with expanded addressing, maybe a 68000 or 65816), and maybe use a POKEY for sound and I/O. (or multiple pokeys, later replacing the additional ones with cut-down sound only versions, or integrating all of them onto one chip) Of possibly just the one POKEY and an additional sound chip, maybe a Yamaha FM synth chip. (the YM2413 is particularly small, cut down for low cost) Something to be released aroung '86/87. Edit: Also, for any of the options, add a lockout mechanism o the system/add-on to give Atari more control over 3rd parties and make money through licencing deals.

Thanks, that's less significant than I'd have guessed. Putting bank switching in the console requires a larger cartridge slot and larger ribbon cable, and thus larger cartridges that require larger shells made from larger tools and larger PCBs. It increases the cost for everything on the off chance a game might use it. (Which must have seemed unlikely in 1977!) I wasn't asking about that, I was asking whether the 12-pin ribbon cable was part of the limitation/reason for the 4 kB window for cartridge rom. I'd assume so as this apears to be the only connectivity between the cartridge slot and motherboard, so they'd have to be the 12 address pins. It came up in another thread that all 24 pins on the 2600 cartridge slot were connected and used, but (while mu current techincal knolege is rather limited) it seems a bit odd that you'd need all additional 12 pins connected to the switchboard. That said, had they expanded the cartridge bus any I'd think it most reasonable to just go up to 13-bit and address as much of the 6507's 8 kB space as possible. (inless all of the remaining 4 kB is already reserved/used) I'm not sure what you mean. There were dozens of semiconductor companies in the late 70s/early 80s that offered mask ROM services. - KS I remember severl mentions of such in older threads I was reading through on atariage (I seem to remember some of it was in the context of Nolan Bushnell, but I'm not sure), while I can't seem to find any of those discussions atm, I recently had a related discussion on sega-16: http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=672&page=20

Who claimed otherwise? THough given the circumstances, I'd say Jaguar Rocks! is more appropriate.

Actually a good many share the same processors, the vast majority of 8-bit game systems use either a MOS 6502 (or derivative) or Zilog Z80 (or derivative), as well as a large portion of home computers, and after that the 68000 was very common in arcades and several home computers. (Though only one mainstreem console from the "16-bit era" used the 68000, the Sega Genesis -and Sega CD if you include that- the Jaguar featured one too, but that's an issue for a seperate topic) The Atari 2600 had its 6507 at 1.19 MHz (a 6502 with address bus cut from 16 to 13-bits and no interrupts), the 5200, 7800, NES/Famicom all featured very similar 6502 derivatives at 1.79 MHz. (the NES's integrated sound hardware, and the 52/7800's 6502C added some onboard support hardware iirc) The PC Engine/TG-16 had a custom 65C02 with a 21-bit address bus that ran at a fast 7.16 MHz.

It seems to bet louder the longer you let it run (either at the title screen or after finishing a match), so he may have has the music going for awhile when he made that clip. Otherwise it could be some issue with his video capture equipment. One odd thing is it seem like those tones aren't present when ballblazer is played on the Prosystem emulator (the main theme is there but the fractal generated rifs don't seem to come in). Maybe there's still problems with POKEY emulation, or perhaps it's a problem with my computer as I've only gotten the sound to work right one time (for whatever reason) and the rest of the time it's all distorted and often laggy. (it definitely has nothing to do with the settings of the emulator, it just happened to work one random time when I booted my computer...) Anyway I just wanted to try it out I don't own the game or a 7800 anyway and I mainly got the emulator to just see what they were like. (I'm not planning on going out of my way to get one, but if there's one at a local used game store, thrift shop, garage sale etc. for a reasonable price, I'll pick one up and ballblazer would be at the top of my list) Otherwise I might try the old DOS version, but seeing the age, I doubt it would be very comperable. (an EGA version with Adlib support would have been awsome though, not to mention MT-32 support for that music!) EDIT: I just checked and realized that it wan't Balblazer but the 1990 remake/sequel "Masterblazer" that came out for PC (And Amiga and ST), I'll have to check that out. (that 1997 PlayStation remake seems rather questionable, plus I don't have a PS1/PS2/PS3)

Thanks to the internet, playability is now easily accessible for anyone lacking a manual who's willing to give it a go! And, yes, I should have said "virtualy impossible" or "extremely frustrating" in my first post. Star Voyager on the NES (unrelated to the IMAGIC game) is a bit like this too, but I kind of found it fun to play even before I understood it. (and someone who's played Star Raiders, Space Spartan, or the like probably would catch on relatively fast, though there are some important parts of strategy that really need explaining) I don't know, "ET Phone Home!" on the Atari 8-bit computer looks pretty good. (both in tems of play, and actual graphics, some nice scrolling too)