PeteD

Don't tell DimensionX that, he'll go totally mental when he realises the CPC has even less shades of grey than the C64! =-) Well, when the discussion was mostly programmers we were actually discussing programming... now DimensionX is back that's slowed down. But the best way to learn is to ask questions, what do y'want to know then? And when i was away for a while, it was about electricity in houses... Bad power supply in Wales for exemple. Which was all on topic as far as programming because it started out with Bryan saying he lost files, we started talking about backing up and I said I had to make sure to backup to online storage because of my power problems. It was a quick interlude not a weeks long repeat posting about colours.

The only person to say that was DimensionX about the C64's palette i think... who said it about the A8? Ok, as I posted above I kind of have issue with being targeted with that. imo it's nowhere near as pretty as people like DX says, I nowhere said it was a "weakness" just I wasn't so keen on the actual colours in it.

The only person to say that was DimensionX about the C64's palette i think... who said it about the A8? I said I didn't "like" it by which I mean the tone of it, wouldn't say having a crap load of colours is bad though just to me they could've looked nicer but that's subjective again and you can't deny more to choose from has got to be better.

Well I'd certainly never call loads of colours by itself a weakness Pretty much is the best palette of any 8 bit (can't think of any better atm). A more RGB approach would've been better imo as there's too much similar stuff in the A8 one but similar over 256 is still more than 16,32 etc No doubt it's just a design limitation anyway, do it with YUV and there's probably less hardware needed to get it out to the TV. Pete

Funny how it's not funny when it's you who is the butt of the jokes, everything you aim at everyone else is of course hilarious.

Cool, me and STE'86 had looked at G&G and realised it was possible (graphically at least) to do a good port. Am I missing something with all the xex's being posted over there though or do they play music, display a screen (title then game on the latest one) then just reset when you press space? From the translation it sounds like there are sprites moving around and scrolling.?

Here we go again Mr I Like all of them. Irrelevant, TO YOU. Horrible, TO YOU. Don't look good, TO YOU. Seeing a pattern? Imo the A8 palette is generally quite ugly, so now I'm a C64 fanboy again I suppose? Nope, it's just my opinion. Pete

Uh-oh, who's supposed to be insulted here? Groovybee? The Yankees? Everyone? HA HA HA!! I love it! (for entertainment only) innumerate people?

And telling people who can program a computer what that machine is or isn't capable of just because you'd read it on wikipedia is hideously arrogant. Not if it's about facts, that even shows in all screenshots. The ONLY thing i said was that colours is better on Atari because they are more clear and vivid, not to mention 256. Then you can forget everything else, like i said. Forget sprites. Further discussion unnecessary. Goodnight TMR. See, not wanting to start yet another argument but in 99% of the shots you posted there are only 128 colours available not 256 and that's where the problems seem to arise. From trying to explain that the first time round it escalates from a kind of "well I don't care because I THOUGHT there were 256" stance into an argument. Pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNT9Whg4r4&feature=related a better example of sample stuff. Sounds a lot cleaner than the other one. Pete

http://www.atariage.com/forums/forum/12-atari-8-bit-computers/ You'll find plenty of like minded people there and really is the place for most of what's been posted in this thread (apart from the arguments but they seem to crop up everywhere).

Well, I'll take that in it's non-patronising form because I can't be bothered to ask any longer

Because unlike you I'm willing to actually do something other than play games or post screenshots to find out which machine can do what. And maybe you are right, I can't say which one is better. That means I can't say if C64 OR Atari is. Not just "to save people attacking me with pointless arguments I'll sit on the fence". I've got to prove to myself which is the most capable machine and so far I've not finished the things I want to on Atari. With Atari, I KNOW it's got a faster CPU, I KNOW it's got full screen height hardware sprites, I KNOW it's got 128/256 colours, I KNOW it's got LMS to help with scrolling etc etc. However I KNOW lots of things on the C64 that either counter those things, are better than them or at least go some way to replicating them. So yes, I "prefer" the C64, you don't have to guts to have a preference.

If that's the case, why am I defending A8, or is your memory so bad you've even forgotten that from my LAST post? I'm actually coding stuff for the machine, more so than the C64, how about you? Thought not. As for "I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer." you say that EVERY DAY then come back the next day with examples of where C64 is worse than every other computer ever built, be they A8, ST/Amiga, Megadrive, Spectrum. I "prefer" the C64, It's what I've done the most stuff on in the past. I DO NOT think the Atari is bad, I DO NOT make up crap about the C64 to try to say it's better than anything else. If I say something about the C64 you can guarantee it is a fact, not a wikipedia one but one I've learned the hard way. The same goes for facts about the A8. I may not know as much as some people, I no doubt know more than others. So now after your latest personal attack I wonder what will come as a reply to this post? More wounded victim nonsense I suppose..

So you've got a memory problem now? Maybe that explains the 2 channels thing, you forgot all about the last argument about channels just like you've conveniently forgotten about saying 99% of the C64 stuff people have posted is bad or not a good game, without even playing them..

No, that's your biased opinion because I don't like what YOU do. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you without posting crap like that then a forum isn't the best place for you. I continually defend the Atari on this forum (I've even done so in this very thread) BUT I DO KNOW when someone is talking out their arse about it and THAT is when I'll defend the C64 instead. Of course you won't have read any of that because you've been so busy telling everyone what to think in this thread.

This particular part of Atari Age isn't about discussing old games. It's not even exclusively about discussing old computers because the programming discussion can cover just about anything up to and including current generation hardware. It's about programming. And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water. I started this thread being polite. But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad. Then i'm not mr polite anymore. But don't you see? That's EXACTLY what you did to everyone else.. Post C64 shots, no, ugly, post comparisons to Crownland, no bad game. Does everyone have to agree with you to make you happy?

Just because someone jumps in with what you perceive as a personal attack doesn't mean you have to drag the rest of the forum into it. Does it not cross your mind for one second that the reason you're continually arguing with about five people is that maybe you're either wrong, being an ass or otherwise antagonising everyone? As far as learning things, from you, nothing. From other people, not much as it's all been talk about either subjective stuff or arguing. There are things about POKEY that Bryan has brought up that I know "about" but don't know the in-depth technicalities behind them and atm don't need to as I'm not writing a POKEY player. When I do need to know, I now know he's one of the people likely to divulge the secrets.

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID? Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER. I'm not a pokey fan, i listen to both, often via emulators. Both sounds good in their own special way. You always see people as idiots who's not sharing your own opinion. And even if you're wrong you're trying to do everything to forget it or hide it. Then follow it up with some personal attacks. Be humble instead. Dear God stop twisting things away from what you accuse someone of. Am I wrong in disagreeing with Audiphile or not? You made that claim now back it up. In the end it was more of a missundestanding where he thought I thought he was saying SID sounded like shit when I didn't I was just disagreeing that sid ever sounds thin unless that was the intention (or from lack of know-how). Now you're accusing me of what is YOUR major fault. You continually post things about your preferences, I've most of the time disagreed with you BUT said that's fine, it's subjective that you like Atari rainbow colours over more complex C64 images BUT when I've brought FACTS to the discussion and you have none other than "but I prefer" you get all arsey as if people are trying to tell you what you should like. That's just your own insecurity. If I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, its you who is twisting and hiding to cover up your lack of knowledge. I say again YOU CAN'T BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER. Even if I changed my mind I'd still be right BUT I don't attack people like you do for disagreeing.

Of course it was a personal attack. You're making a comment about me as a person. Firstly the discussion between me and Audiophile was about a subjective matter, there is no right or wrong. So because I disagreed with Audiophile about how thin or fat the SID sounded in comparison to the POKEY it's ME who is wrong, just because you're a POKEY fan and not SID? Prove otherwise, show me when POKEY sounds fatter/thicker than SID at it's fattest and I'll be happy to change my mind but I CAN NOT BE WRONG ON A SUBJECTIVE MATTER.

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming. This thread isn't much about programming, is it? 40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it? Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer. Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them And you are that typically person with bad selfesteem that never can be wrong. Are you that person that makes personal attacks? no, surely that's everyone else APART from you.

To be honest if you go to the main Atari 8 bit part of the forum you'll get a much better reception for most of what you believe.

This particular part of Atari Age is for discussing programming. This thread isn't much about programming, is it? 40% must be totally off topic and at least 40% about retro, but not about programming. There's not much left, is it? Well, i admit that i should't be on this thread as a non programmer. Yeah, rainbows aren't really on topic are they? Didn't stop you spending a week going on about them

You were wrong because the only point you were right on was "POKEY has 4 channels" which was never in contention anyway. What was is what is possible in comparison to SID using those 4 channels. People with knowledge like Bryan can explain how 9bit accuracy can be had for very little overhead for example. You just repeated "4 channels" over and over and claim that bits doesn't matter and combining channels doesn't matter etc etc THEN you appear again today with an example that was no doubt to point out that POKEY is at least as good as SID with a combined waveform 3 channel example. Something you spent at least a day arguing with me saying that wasn't important and that POKEY having 4 channels was ALL that mattered.

What BUNCH? You posted something, one guy thought you meant something you're claiming you didn't, someone else (me) had a problem with you because I'm quite incensed that you spent at least a day arguing with me about pokey 4 channels blah blah only to return and totally flip that around by saying to produce ONE fat bass sound you use TWO channels leaving (a total) of 3 including the bass, in your words "the same as SID" which was my whole point all along during your "4 channels" repetitive nonsense. That's 2 different arguments you're having based off one of your posts. There's no BUNCH.