PeteD

Just to clarify, this isn't what you were doing DimensionX... Come on, it it wasn't for him you wouldn't have written the Sodding Rainbows graphics pre-processor.

*cough*

And the A8 can't do them either, so once more this is a totally moot point and absolutely irrelevant even to your latest tangent away from the actual thread topic. That's what a big pallette can do for 16 on screen colours. And that was my point. Now, imagine a C64 with a palette of 128 or 256 colours to choose from. With the same abilitys as now. Problem is, it doesn't. Just as the Atari has limitations that you consistently ignore.

Why do you keep bringing C64 into what you turned into a 16 bit argument? You can't judge the merits of dithering using the C64 palette against an amiga/st game.

There's as much there (tree trunks, shadows, sprites etc) as there is in the other one considering there's barely anything on the screen.

Yes this is why i liked the BB games. More real detail due to all the shades. Didn't matter that most of the objects were the same colours. BB games did resort to dithering on larger elements.. Xenon's 3rd boss, etc etc. Other more 'colourfull' games had to dither more. i think on many TV's the 320 pixels wide tended to blur ordered dither together very well BB games should be split into 2 really, Dan Malone games or Mark Coleman (totally different style)

WTF does the C64 have to do with this now? It's not MUCH HIGHER res than the c64 it's double the res only in X.

No dithering in there then? I see lots. About the only solid colours in there is the top of the trees and the floor. *edit* http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=1025 I'll point back to there again with some nice close-ups of background objects..

Yeah, but those bad boys FLASHED on and off!!

But on a low colour (on screen) machine, which let's face it is all of them until at least 16bpp displays (and even that you can see banding) you've pretty much GOT to use dithering, if you just used shades you'd end up with more of a blurry mess than you did if you dithered or a monochrome looking image on the machine you're touting the palette on.

BB games (Dan Malone drawn stuff anyway) used a more C64 palette though, a reasonable shade (say 6-8 greys) with some very different colours and interleaved those using the greys to make other coloured shades. That's how things are done on the C64, You've got 5 greys in total including black and white, you add to those the blues or reds or greens etc and you dither them/interleave them (as the BB games do) to get the perception of more colour. *edit* Changed 4 greys to 5. durr

See above, I edited because you edited and you missed my edit.. Like you said yourself. It's always an advantage to be able to choose your colours from a big palette? Even if you just use 5 colours you can choose exactly what colours to use. 5 different greens? Or Yellow? Then you can switch palette for each new level if you have a big palette to choose from. That gives the game more variation. In fact you can switch colours many times in the same game. Dithering? Dithering isn't a good method to use because you will destroy all detail and half the resolution using that method. And it's very limited anyway. Well really that's just your opinion again, I think most artists (and most other people) would disagree, some form of dithering/shading gives more depth to an image, regardless of the number of colours else everything would look flat like a cartoon. I'm still unsure of your stance on dithering, you seem to equate it to a bad thing that's only used when there aren't enough colours but use that to target the C64 AND machines with more colours than the 800 as if either it's never used on the atari or it doesn't matter if it is because you've got more colours "to choose from".

See above, I edited because you edited and you missed my edit.. Like you said yourself. It's always an advantage to be able to choose your colours from a big palette? Even if you just use 5 colours you can choose exactly what colours to use. 5 different greens? Or Yellow? Then you can switch palette for each new level if you have a big palette to choose from. That gives the game more variation. In fact you can switch colours many times in the same game. Dithering?

See above, I edited because you edited and you missed my edit..

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right. On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller. So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see. Pete Only when you have a big palette to choose from. In which way? Big palette, small number of colours on screen or big palette, lots of onscreen? *edit* Ok, you edited as I was replying.. So I still don't understand how that equates to anything to do with the Atari? You've got less colours on screen than the C64 (without rainbows, definitely per scanline) but a bigger palette. I'm just not sure of the point you're making about dithering being bad.

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right. On screen colours off course. ST used 16, Amiga 32, Megadrive 64 and Snes 256. Snes was the only one who could presented something real close to the arcade. Both ST and Amiga emulated lots of games that were a bit too hard for them to fully recreate. Often you had to get rid of some colours and make the sprites smaller. So now it's the number of colours on screen that's important. I see. Pete

Colours in total? ie it's palette not just on screen? If you think so then it's homework time again because you're only partially right.

Try .xex attached to post #22. Still just displays loading screen, space takes me to the game background with nothing happening, space again resets. Wrong RAM setup maybe? *edit* Got it now, nothing is displayed (sprites) till you actually move. Pressing keys like space/enter resets.

He's not naked, he's got rainbows!!

Just keep thinking to yourself, naked man + rainbows + faecal matter! You'll be fine

Hmm... maybe the keyboard's in the toilet and he's doing that while posting here. PICS! or it didn't happen! oh wait!

I'm starting to question the posting of it now, it's rather freaking me out. I've heard of "bog diving" before but always thought it was people swimming about in mud.

Learn faster, I've got loads of code here you could do for me

It was still more on topic (since it relates to programmers and in particular back-ups) than your opinions on colours, yes. So, what's wrong discussiong the colours on both computers? Well, i say the same thing as when i entered this thread. I choose A8 for it's magnificent colours. Then you can think whatever you want. But does that have to go on for weeks? We all got the message a long time ago, people disagree with you. FIN!