Atari 400 won't boot from disk drive

[Atari 400 won't boot from disk drive]

I have that Intec 48k upgrade in one of my 400's it most definately has a small board on the underside soldered onto the traces. without it the upgrade doesn't work.

 

mine too.

[Atari 400 won't boot from disk drive]

In going over some threads here, and looking at my board again, I see the 48K upgrade needs some connections along the underside of the main board between the ram slot and cart port.

On my board, there were some bits of solder trace stuck to some of the connections, like the Intec upgrade board had been installed, but was rather brutally ripped off.

If I have a 48K ram card installed, but don't have those connections made on the underside, could that be the cause of my drive booting problems?

 

This is just an aside. That was my first 48k upgrade, back in about 1982/1983. I paid $190 (!!!), installed, for it. After that, the 400 would work a while and blow the fuse in the power supply. Before I figured out how to open the PSU and replace the fuse, I went through some power bricks. Perhaps that's a reason someone would rip it out?

 

Anybody know why the Intec board would use more power (and blow fuses) over anybody else's 48k upgrade?

 

I wouldn't think the 48k board would increase the power draw enough to blow a fuse. I have an Intec 48k board in my 400 and haven't had any problems with fuses blowing. The installer could have caused some damage to your machine.

[Best Atari Dealer - The good - the bad and the ugly]

I've purchased flash carts from Atarimax and they have worked flawlessly. Steve also provides excellent support. I was working on an 8mbit project and needed some code to write too the flash cart. Steve had some 1mbit code, updated it for the 8mbit and sent it to me in under 24hrs. He also has a great forum to support his products.

 

I've also made a number of purchases from Best Electronics for s/w and repair parts. Always shipped quickly and provided good phone support. Very knowledgeable on Atari products.

 

Perry

[Atari 8 bit repros at Video 61]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

 

 

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

 

I don't see the word reproduction anywhere in Lance's 400/800 cart list. How do I tell if a cart is proto, repro or original?

 

Perry

[Pac-man Collection - Pokey cart or XM only]

The XM Pac Man Collection will have tia sound intact, but does it also include the further changes made to Ms. Pac-Man?

 

It's the same as this one but I've added the original TIA sounds back in for play on standard 7800's.

 

Perry

[Can 2600 games use the XM?]

Pokey enhanced 2600 games? I find that very interesting. Sounds like even more reasons to get an XM.

2600 Pac-Man hacked with Pokey sound. It would be just like playing the real thing.

 

Did you see this hack that I did as a joke? It's the exact opposite. 7800 Pac-man with 2600 sound.

[Atari 7800XM and the Yamaha YM2151 sound chip]

I was thinking that I would somehow interfere with the screen being redrawn. But Maria would take over and draw the screen anyway, right? And any dli's that were started would just interrupt the late running VBL code. So I suppose there would only be an issue if the DLI's were dependent on some calculations being performed during the vertical blank. Running the sound last would probably make sense. At worst a few notes might start a fraction of a second late if the code was to run into the start of the screen redraw.

[Atari 7800XM and the Yamaha YM2151 sound chip]

50-60 times per second would be quite a complex music track.

 

Huh? Don't think I suggested that. But if I'm running in-game music during the vertical blank and I should have more than a few instruments change at the same time, it won't be difficult to exceed the time that's available to me. It all depends on how much other game code would be running in the VBL. Is a glitch in a single frame invisible? If so, then I won't worry too much.

[Atari 7800XM and the Yamaha YM2151 sound chip]

The YM2151 datasheet is here :-

 

http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/gottlieb/technical/datasheets/YM2151_datasheet.pdf

 

If anybody finds a good tracker (like RMT on the A8s) that I can add to my list of 7800 projects then let me know.

 

 

Grooveybee,

 

 

I don't know how much you've played around with the YM2151, but maybe you can help with my question. The YM2151 user manual indicates it will take up to 68 clocks (at 3.5 mhz) for a write to the chip to be processed. This works out to be about 35 clocks of the 6502. To write a byte to the chip requires an address write and a data write. I don't know if this wait apply's to both.

 

My concern is that I will waste a lot of clock cycles waiting to write to the sound processor. For each note that I start, I need to write a note value and key on the channel. This means 4 writes (2 * address+data) for each note. In an 8 channel tune, this can add up fast. But my biggest concern is when I need to write the "instrument" data to setup a channel. Each channel has 28 bytes of parameter data to define. 28 bytes * 2 writes per byte * 35 clocks is a whopping 1960 clocks of the 6502. That's a lot of time to waste while waiting for the status bit to toggle. This could be done during game initialization, but would limit the number of instruments if they can't be changed on the fly during a tune. Maybe I'm missing something here and this isn't really an issue. I'm hoping that this 68 clocks is just a worst case number and that in use it will average out to something much lower.

 

Am I mis-interpreting this spec?

 

 

Perry

[7800 Expansion Module (XM) hardware & game details - 7/8/2016]

So, does that mean the 2600 trakball doesn't work on the 7800?

 

Thee is a TrakBall version of Centipede for the 7800.

 

That's the version that currently resides in my centipede cartridge.

[Calling All 400s!]

Oh, come now! That's how to make a 400 not a 400. I think the membrane keyboard was brilliant. The raised edges and speaker click made it very easy and reliable. If you poke at your keys then, no, it doesn't work. If you lightly feel each key and then push 'til it clicks, it works beautifully.

 

Even though I cut my teeth on a 400 back in the early 80's, I prefer the full stroke keyboard for ease of use. But I do much prefer the look of the 400's membrane keyboard. I bought my current 400 last year with a Cherry keyboard. I immediately sold the keyboard and replaced with an new membrane keyboard. The machine just didn't look right with those keys sticking out of it.

[What's the latest Atari related thing(s) you've bought on ebay?]

I just picked up a boxed Zork I. Very excited to have bought my first disk based Atari software. I only had a 410 tape drive back in the day.

 

Perry

[Pac-man Collection - Pokey cart or XM only]

Hey Perry

 

The Pokey only 32K version will be much harder to make. There are no homebrew boards that support the Pokey Add-On, so Commando and Ballblazer carts are the only option... (That's why I haven't made them yet). I'm not sure if the H2 will support Pokey or not.

 

Bob

 

Bob,

 

That was my concern about the pokey boards. I don't have a feel for the availability of Ballblazer carts or their cost. The Commando carts don't appear to be as common and fetch a high price on e-bay so I didn't think they were an option.

 

Perry

[Pac-man Collection - Pokey cart or XM only]

With the XM module release quickly approaching, I would like to get some opinions on the Pokey version of Pac-man Collection. I've made two versions of this code. There is a 32k version for use with a Pokey (Ballblazer) cart. And then there is an XM version that would use a standard 48k cart. This version support both TIA and Pokey sound. It will use Pokey sounds if an XM is detected or use the original TIA sounds if not.

 

So my question is, with all the people that have pre-ordered the XM, does it make sense to offer a Pokey cart and XM version or should we just do the XM version? What do you see as the pro's/con's of offering both versions? I like the XM version because it doesn't require doner Pokey carts. The obvious con is that it requires the XM module for the enhanced sound effects and some people may not want to buy the XM. I'm not sure what the cost difference, if any would be since I don't have experience producing these. Maybe Al can chime in on the cost implications. I suppose it will come down to demand, which is why I've created the Poll.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Regards,

Perry

[XM Status Page...]

The 2151 looks like it would be the more expensive part there (assuming it's a single IC package).

 

 

My guess would be the plastic housing due to the tooling cost. Tooling and setup costs are a huge factor in the price of these low volume projects.

 

Perry

[Calling All 400s!]

The s/n on mine is AV 321493 and it has ATARI / 302 stamped in the case. Guess that means it was made the 30th week of 1982.

 

Perry

[Testing 320 mode with Pac-Man]

Is there a particular technical reason why the maze walls have to be filled in with the yellow? (I guess this originally was meant to be Ms Pac?) Part of why the boxes might stand out is the high contrast. If the boxes were simple blue outlines and the interiors left black, it might not be that noticeable, or at least less so.

 

I copied the characters and sprites directly from arcade Pac itself, so the 'filled in' maze was part of that. It just so happens that the inside color was shared with Pac and Pokey. I can erase the inside, but that leaves very boring mazes

 

That being said, I got the scrolling to work - and the game is now playable. You can also choose the correct starting level.

 

 

Please note that individual colors cannot be changed, as they all are shared by other objects.

Also, the sounds and intermissions are not correct.

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

Great work Bob. I was just wondering if it's possible to reorder the DL's so that Pacman and the monsters get drawn before the maze so the box's don't show up. Would that work?

[Opinion of the 7800 vs 8bit]

Once we agree that A8 versions are superior, we can move on to others.

 

You'll never get everyone to agree on which is "better" because it's too subjective. You can argue the technical points until you're blue in the face, but in the end, all that matters is which one YOU enjoy playing. Some will prefer the 7800, some the A8, some the NES, and so on.

 

These arguments of which is "better" are really just for people who like arguing. Jut my 2 cents.

 

Perry

 

There are objective things as well as subjective things in the games. It's objective that Donkey Kong on Atari 800 has superior sounds than on Atari 7800 amongst other things. You can say which color scheme you prefer is subjective but not things that make the game superior to play. Robotron, taking the example being discussed, requires graphics to be more clearly discernible as the action is fast.

 

Yet some people on this board will argue that sound isn't important. Still subjective as to whether it makes the game "better". I suppose you can objectively compare sprite size in Robotron if you assume all other factors like screen size, seating distance, visual accuity are the same. But wether or not that makes the game "better" for any individual is still a matter of opinion. I still say debating whether or not one game port is better than another is a pointless waste of time. Thats all I have left to say on the matter.

 

See ya

 

Perry

[Opinion of the 7800 vs 8bit]

Once we agree that A8 versions are superior, we can move on to others.

 

You'll never get everyone to agree on which is "better" because it's too subjective. You can argue the technical points until you're blue in the face, but in the end, all that matters is which one YOU enjoy playing. Some will prefer the 7800, some the A8, some the NES, and so on.

 

These arguments of which is "better" are really just for people who like arguing. Jut my 2 cents.

 

Perry

[Testing 320 mode with Pac-Man]

Hi Guys:

 

I just spent a day or two on this, converting it from 160B mode to 320B mode. It looks good, but unfortunately when you only have 4 colors available to you per DL in this mode, I don't think it's worth finishing. I was going to make it scroll up and down (it doesn't at this point but all of the screen elements are there i.e. you can go down off the screen and the game will still keep track of the players).

 

I guess this is why this mode isn't used too often.

 

I wanted to try my vertical scrolling skills, because I want to make an XM game that uses all of its resources.

 

Anyway, here's what I ended up with.

 

Wow! That would have been cool. What a shame we can't get more colors.

[Ms. Pacman Fixed !]

Anyway to combine it with the ms-pacman hack floating around with more arcade like sound?

 

Do you have that hacked version for me please? I could take a look at it. It is probably easier (for me) to do my fixes on THAT version, than implenting the arcade sound in the version I just edited.

 

Greetz

M.

 

I updated the sounds in the 5200 version. It can be found in the 5200 Hacks area. I don't recall anything being done with the 400/800 version though.

 

Perry

[Demo/unfinished versions of games found]

This weekend I'll attempt to hook up my old Atari to an old SD tube tv and see what these games actually look like. There are a ton of variables here (does my atari work, the supercharger, the games, etc). So wish me luck. I'd very much appreciate any advice about how I should handle these tape games. They've been stored well (boxed in a dry cold dark basement) but I know tape can fall apart. I'd hate to hurt these artifacts .

 

 

You might want to post the question on how to handle these old tapes in the 8-bit computer section. I'm sure there are a few people there who are experienced with tape based s/w.

 

Perry

[Game Sound, the 7800, is it really a big deal?]

with arcade quality-graphics on the 7800, you'd expect arcade-quality sounds as well. Unfortunately, that was not the case for many of the games.

 

That's the basic problem I have with the 7800. The disconnect between graphic quality and sound quality. If I had owned a 7800 back in the 80's, I would probably feel more nostalgic for those game ports, and maybe even enjoy how the sound was done. That's the case for the VCS which was my first console. I can play that all day long and never care about simple graphics and sound. I spent countless hours playing the original defender on that system, which many people here seem to hate. It was far from arcade perfect but still a lot of fun to play.

[Game Sound, the 7800, is it really a big deal?]

Kind of an aside from the sound update thread, this topic has been itching at me, so I have to ask:

 

Is sound on these old systems really a big deal at all? I don't get all the fuss. People saying things like "The sound of that port is bad, it totally throws the feel of that game off, I can't play it!"

 

I'm sorry, but this just sounds plain damn crazy to me. It's crappy 8-bit bloop-bleep sound effects. They're ancient video games. Unless there's a specific sound missing from a game that is supposed to alert you to something - who gives a flying fart? Sure, the newer systems with CD and DVD/Blu-Ray have made huge advances, but that's to be expected.

 

But pretty much every system in the golden era - 2600/5200/7800/NES/SMS/coleco etc. sound like unintelligible beep boop crap anyway.

 

and NONE of it affects gameplay at all. Donkey Kong doesn't suddenly become more difficult because the music has an F# in the wrong place because of TIA limitations.

 

You guys, I dunno. I'll take the updated versions and play them, sure. always fun to hack around with stuff, love it all. But all the whiney complaints. Do you guys even really like these games, or do you hate them?

 

Some days around here, I just can't tell.

 

My thing with game sounds is this. Now if these games were all original, and never existed in a better form, we wouldn't know what we were missing and would be more than happy with all the bleeps and bloops. I was certainly happy with the early original VCS games I played as a kid even though they had such simple sound effects. The games were fun so it didn't really matter. But with arcade ports, I just can't block out the memories of how these games look and sound. The arcade original is the standard that the game is measured against. Most of the ports I played back then disappointed me because of this, but I still considered many of them to be fun to play.

 

Today, most of the games I like to play on the 7800 are arcade ports. The 7800 is just so disapointing because the graphics are very good but it's saddled with a sound chip that just can't reproduce the sounds of the game being ported. One of my hobbies is to dabble in programming these old 8-bit systems. So hacking these old ports and improving the sounds is something that helps me get my programming fix and make the games more fun for me to play. Feels like I'm righting the wrong that Atari made when they released that system with TIA sound.

 

You might consider me "crazy" for worrying about how a game sounds. I think it would be crazy not to. To each his own.

 

Perry

[Help choose my next sound update.]

I've decided I will go ahead and do Dig Dug, which happens to be my first choice anyways. I just like the game alot and the music is so important to the character of the game.

 

Xevious will be next after that.