tep392

Do you have that hacked version for me please? I could take a look at it. It is probably easier (for me) to do my fixes on THAT version, than implenting the arcade sound in the version I just edited. Greetz M. I updated the sounds in the 5200 version. It can be found in the 5200 Hacks area. I don't recall anything being done with the 400/800 version though. Perry

You might want to post the question on how to handle these old tapes in the 8-bit computer section. I'm sure there are a few people there who are experienced with tape based s/w. Perry

That's the basic problem I have with the 7800. The disconnect between graphic quality and sound quality. If I had owned a 7800 back in the 80's, I would probably feel more nostalgic for those game ports, and maybe even enjoy how the sound was done. That's the case for the VCS which was my first console. I can play that all day long and never care about simple graphics and sound. I spent countless hours playing the original defender on that system, which many people here seem to hate. It was far from arcade perfect but still a lot of fun to play.

My thing with game sounds is this. Now if these games were all original, and never existed in a better form, we wouldn't know what we were missing and would be more than happy with all the bleeps and bloops. I was certainly happy with the early original VCS games I played as a kid even though they had such simple sound effects. The games were fun so it didn't really matter. But with arcade ports, I just can't block out the memories of how these games look and sound. The arcade original is the standard that the game is measured against. Most of the ports I played back then disappointed me because of this, but I still considered many of them to be fun to play. Today, most of the games I like to play on the 7800 are arcade ports. The 7800 is just so disapointing because the graphics are very good but it's saddled with a sound chip that just can't reproduce the sounds of the game being ported. One of my hobbies is to dabble in programming these old 8-bit systems. So hacking these old ports and improving the sounds is something that helps me get my programming fix and make the games more fun for me to play. Feels like I'm righting the wrong that Atari made when they released that system with TIA sound. You might consider me "crazy" for worrying about how a game sounds. I think it would be crazy not to. To each his own. Perry

I've decided I will go ahead and do Dig Dug, which happens to be my first choice anyways. I just like the game alot and the music is so important to the character of the game. Xevious will be next after that.

These fakes are going to be a real pain. It would be nice if we could find some difference in the box art to help identify them for the people buying sealed units. I wonder how many of the many boxed Flashbacks on Ebay are fake.

So I'm thinking about my next sound update project, and I'd like to do a little survey to get some votes on what I do next. I'm looking at DigDug, Xevious, Galaga or Centipede. The reason I'm looking at these is two-fold. First, the 7800 source code is available which will make it fairly easy to replace the old sound code with my own. Second, all of these, except Centipede have been coded for the YM2151 on the X68000, which will make my job a lot easier. Centipede would actually be a POKEY update because that is what the original arcade machine used. I'm including it in the list because it's a game I really enjoy. If I do it, I will use the version with the trackball hack. If the game needs some minor graphical or gameplay updates, I might do a little of that as well. I've attached some YM2151 samples from the X68000 if you want to know what these games could sound like. Let me know what you think. Perry digdug.mp3 galaga.mp3 xevious.mp3

I ran across this old thread. Looks like Kroger was selling these last year as well. I wonder if these could have been knockoff's as well.

Let's please document any and all differences to help the collectors avoid these fakes. Maybe it should go in a sticky as well.

That is interesting. Seems odd that the builder didn't make the cutout big enough for the help/option/select/start keys to fit. He also left out the right cartridge slot, but may have not included it because there weren't many carts released for it. The FCC would have a fit over the lack of shielding.

I played it straight and told the buyer they could send it back and I would be happy to send them a copy of the NES game if that is what they are looking for. Eagerly awaiting further communication from this one! Be prepared to handle the buyer with kid gloves if it turns out he is an idiot. You don't want to get any negative feedback over this.

Here's a cool sample of what the Yamaha chip can do. This is from an emulator for the x68000 computer, so I don't know how close it is to the sound of real hardware. Perry pacmanarrangement.mp3

This is interesting. I did some searching and found some details on the Kirby's Adventure cartridge. Kirby's adventure used the MMC5 memory management chip which added A LOT of capability not built into the NES. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison when you consider the hardware built into the cart. The upcoming XM might even it out a bit though. Here's some of the text I found on the MMC5 MMC5 Manufacturer: Nintendo Used in: Castlevania 3, Kirby's adventure, ect The MMC5 chip was the best, and most expensive of the MMC chips. This chip has been avoided many times by the developers of games due to the price of this chip. The chip expanses the memory, add two sound channels, and enables vertical scrolling. This chip let the game use 16,384 tiles, where first only 256 tiles were possible. Every tile can have an own color. These NES games were using the MMC5: Castlevania 3 Kirby's adventure Just Breed Metal Slader Glory Gun Sight Uchuu Keibitai SDF Nobunaga's Ambition II MMC5 This chip has a very large set of functionality included in it- 1K of extra RAM for general use or attribute table use, 8*8 bit multiplier, extra sound channels, split screen scrolling, control for up to 64K of WRAM, battery backup control, and some other goodies. The newest of the MMC chips for the NES. The first game it was used for was Castlevania 3: Draculas Curse. This chip has many new and expanded features that accompanied it. The MMC5 improved the battery backup feature so you wouldn't have to push reset when you turn off the NES to prevent data loss. The chip also allows greater color definition and partial screen scrolling (not locked like SMB3). It is also a customized mathematics module that took much strain off the CPU and took care of many tasks like the internal clock, and other repetitive functions. The MMC5 also allowed a vertical split screen scroll which means you can have a side bar of information while the scrolling action of the game continues. The chip has a memory capacity of 8 Megs (1,048,576 bits). Another MMC5 game, and probably the only one, is Kirby's Adventure. A few games which this chip had a maximum game page size of 64x16kb.

I'm pretty sure I can test it for you since I have a CC2. Should be able to just disable the Pokey on the CC2 and see if it goes back to TIA sound unless you mean work specifically with the XM. Thanks for the offer, but I've already verified it will revert back to TIA when the POKEY is absent. It's setup to detect the POKEY mapped like the XM or XBOARD, so I need to check on one of those to see if the POKEY sounds still work correctly. If anyones interested in what I'm trying to do with the Yamaha chip, download the X68000 emulator, http://www.jcec.co.uk/X68emu.htm Then download the Namco Game Music Library which was written to use the Yamaha sound chip. Some very neat stuff in that program which I expect to borrow from heavily. http://www.jcec.co.uk/X68list.htm Perry

I've done an update which add's the TIA sounds back in. It will detect the XM and use POKEY if available, else go back to TIA sound. I won't be able to test until I get an XM but I expect it to work fine. TIA sound works on my standard console. I'm actually working on an update that will use the Yamaha chip, but won't be able to debug it until the modules ship. Perry

That's the ONLY one. I would expect to see a slew of hacks coming out before long that use the Pokey chip and perhaps even add HSC functionality. I would not be surprised if homebrewers go back to older games they've made and add Pokey support as well. For the record, Donkey Kong is by far a better game with decent music, and the Pacman Collection, as polished as it was is even more AMAZING with pokey sound. all of which will work with the H2, CC2, or on a homebrew cart, and don't require the XM. Some people like to have a real cartridge rather than just playing off a flash cart. Also, I think it is unlikely that DK or PMC will be produced on a POKEY cart. It will be flash or XM only. I am also working on a Yamaha sound upgrade for PMC. Don't know if it will work out yet, since I don't have hardware to test on, but I'm hopefull it will get the game near arcade perfect on sound. And there will be a little something extra if I have enough space. Perry

Same here. My 40+ year old eyes need the help.

I won the DVD's. Looking forward to finally seeing Once Upon Atari. Thanks rkenneha! Perry

I bought this a while back. I remeber being very surprised when I discovered the knob can twist. I think it works fairly well over all, but it is difficult to play Bosconian because of the four way stick. An eight way is really needed for that game. Works well for the other games if you don't mind the clicky micro switches. My only other complaint is that the picture quality isn't very good with the composite outputs. An s-video out would have been nice. Game play seems to be accurately emulated. Perry

Try this one. Pause is working correctly now. dk7800_pokey.a78

Thanks for spotting that. I'll take a look at it later. Shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Perry

Thanks for taking the time to address this! The issue remains the same with the level start music. I'll have to agree with you and believe that the issue lies in emulation. Wii7800 is a port of ProSystem, but I am uncertain which version was used (1.2?). Perhaps I've corrupted the emulator somehow. Thanks again! These POKEY conversions really show how much a game can be improved just by the quality of it's sounds. I'm seeing the same issue on Wii7800....however, it's only a small annoyance. Other than that its a HUGE improvement! Thanks. It is amazing how much difference the sound can make. I bought my 7800 last year and was looking forward to this game because the screen shots looked so impressive. But after playing for just a few minutes, the sound became unbearable. The disparity between the sound and graphics bothered me so much that I felt compelled to do something about it. They still are not arcade perfect, but I feel good about it now and can actually enjoy playing the game. I have to wonder what the original programmers were thinking when they did this game. Even if the Pokey wasn't an option for them, the TIA can do much better than this. Xevious is a good example of TIA sound done right.

I just downloaded with FileZilla and it was just a simple drag and drop of the folder. Took nine hours though.

Thanks! I havn't seen that problem running on ProSystem 1.3. It could be a problem with Wii7800. I have made some minor updates and changed the sound initialization a bit. If this doesn't help, then it's likey just an issue with the emulator. dk7800_pokey.a78

Looks great!