Monk
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Posts posted by Monk
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Hmm, this is a bit off-topic, but I am thinking that perhaps I could purchase another Harmony Cart for my mom's Atari - but as far as I understand it, Paypal isn't feasible for payment anymore. So what is the current method?
The Harmony Cart web-page http://harmony.atariage.com/order_international.html
wasn't really helpful and informative about that particular issue.
So if anyone of you know how it's done, I'd appreciate the info (which would lead to the decision of purchasing another one or not).
Thanks.
- Monk
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Text too hard to read in Atarimania page?
Perhaps you should think about getting a better monitor. For me the text is just fine, no problems whatsoever in reading it. You can also try CTRL and PLUS together, to enlarge the font, if you are near-sighted or something.
- Monk
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Just an idea.. either full cycle or solid colors - that'd be really a perfect solution imho.
Uhm, no.
Color cycling/shading is a faithful retro effect and I want this to be a typical retro device. If that makes the menu harder readable that is faithfully retro too.
But we made the colors brighter for the next BIOS.
That's not what I meant - I meant that the 'pause mode' could use SOLID COLORS, so the user could always choose between readable and nice and cycleraster and pretty. I don't have very strong feelings about this issue anyway, it's just fine as it is for me - but I was only thinking if it would be technically possible or feasible to make the pause mode solid-color (as you do HAVE a pause mode, that's already a non-retro ability, and it's aim is what - to make the text easier to read or less disturbing or whatnot - in any case, destroying the retro effect, so you might as well go all the way instead of making this kind of a half-assed compromise which leaves everyone unsatisfied - so you already have such mode anyway, what's the harm in making it also as readable as possible?)
I don't know about the colors being brighter or not, but I suggest perhaps a bit less contrast could ease it a bit. But personally, I would love if there were more and more bright and interesting colors in the cycle effect - now it looks a bit greyish and dull to me (although I have to admit I am a bit color blind, so that means I can't see 'subtle' colors very well, but bright and powerful colors are great to my eye), compared to for example the California Games raster effects between events etc..
Great device, that Harmony Cart, anyways - I hope some day I can get that darn Congo Bongo workin' .. hehe.
- Monk
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Hey, thanks for that tip. Yep, I like it non-pulsing like that much better!
Since so many seem to prefer the color cycling disabled, maybe I should reverse the B/W switch function and disable color cycling it by default (Color).
By the way, is there a way to take the color cycling off -altogether-, I mean - now it only seems that it's still there but just in a pause mode. Like, solid letters and numbers instead of 'shaded' ones, as the shading always makes some rows less clear and some rows more clear even with the cycling off (that's why I prefer to keep it on, so the net effect is more readable overall text)
Just an idea.. either full cycle or solid colors - that'd be really a perfect solution imho.
- Monk
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Actually, this ROM no longer works in Stella 3.0 either. If you'll be comparing ROMs on Harmony and Stella, I recommend you upgrade to the very latest version.
I see. Right now I am trying to get that Congo Bongo working.. works with the earlier Stella, but not Harmony Cart (tried several different ROM files)
Well, I better stop comparing ROMs then.. I rather have them working with Stella than upgrade to a version where they don't work anymore.. at least I have -some- place where they work then.
Kinda curiously backwards though to recommend to upgrade to something that stops things from working..
- Monk
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I hear what you're saying, but you'd have to pry my Longhorn video-modded 2600 from my cold dead hands.
To do what? I am not gonna have to pry anything from your cold, dead hands.
Relax, man - I wasn't attacking YOUR need for video-modding, just defending MY lack of such need.
But in that same token, I feel sad how modern people, even when doing 'retro stuff', are somehow mesmerized by the technological advancements, and immediately want to marry the modern with the old, and they don't see anything wrong with this - so they do it until there's not much left from the authentic, old machine, but lots of new, modern junk has been applied all over the place.. and then they say 'ah, this is just like the old days'..
People don't seem to realize that mixing the old with the new, they create disharmony and destroy the spirit that otherwise would be there.. using the old machine in the authentic way. Even though the Harmony Cart is kind of essential for practical reasons (no one can really easily keep track of and switch hundreds and hundreds of clumsy cartridges), I even feel the effect there. There is slightly less feeling playing Cosmic Ark from Harmony Cart than there is with playing it from the original cart.
So with Atari 2600 and many others, this kind of thing is very necessary. But then there are computers with floppy disk drives and such, which can perfectly nicely load the games from the disks.. but this is not good enough for many people, they connect their old computers to new PC's and use all kinds of weird crap in order to get things loaded FAST, as they don't have time to WAIT anymore.. they always have to rush everywhere, even to nostalgy!
In any case - I am not really against you guys using video mods, I am just trying to mainly just explain how I don't really NEED any video mods, and in fact such expensive mod would make the picture WORSE (in my eyes). I like authenticity as much as I can possibly get it. Why fix it if it isn't broken, etc.. video mods for me are not necessary.
But I am perhaps also trying to show you a viewpoint or a perspective, which many of you might not have seen otherwise; that there is another way of looking at things except the mainstream (within the retro realm) consensus of what is 'necessary' and what is 'a must', etc..
Maybe LE can add an optional "blur" circuit to his mods, so the user can decide if they don't want perfect clarity!
Yeah. So instead of just using the simplest and most authentic way of simply having the actual, original connection system and thus getting the great, perfect picture - you would have me heavily MODIFY the original technology (in effect, raping it and mutilating it), creating disharmony (no pun intended) and all just for the greed of the modern human - everything has to be soooo polished and sooo materialistically shiny and new and HD-PLASMA-LCD! CRT is obsolete and.. why do people like you even use real Atari's? Emulation would solve all your problems much more easily - and THEN, as if this all wasn't bad enough, you'd have me then ARTIFICIALLY create even MORE modern stuff to try to EMULATE the old picture quality!
This suggestion sadly shows exactly how most modern people think, no matter how 'retro' people they are or how much they 'love' their old computers and systems - if they CAN rape and mutilate an old machine to make it more 'efficient' or more 'modern picture quality' or whatever, they will. Instantly. Without hesitation.
To me this is a bit shocking.. you are actually mocking people for wanting to use their system with AUTHENTICITY instead of the mainstream way of just trying to optimize everything until there's nothing worthwhile, original hardware left!
As I said previously, people like you might just as well use emulators, because after all this kind of heavy mutilation, what's the point?
(I know you put some smileys after your suggestion but that doesn't make it less stupid, no offense)
- Monk
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Monk, I disagree with you.
Go ahead, Philsan - it is your right. But you can't disagree about what MY opinion and viewpoint of this is. And when you understand this much, you understand there's nothing to disagree on - I wasn't talking universally, I was only talking about my OWN viewpoint and opinions. Thus, disagreement is not even possible here.
Before buying an Amiga with RGB output in 1987,
Now hold on. I wasn't talking about sophisticated computers with operating systems and small text that you have to be able to read.
But still, even Amiga games look so much better in a real TV than any VGA monitor. I remember once making this cool blue-effect when I was drawing a mountain background in Deluxe Paint III for my small animation. I thought I made trees that looked really cool, mystical and realistic.
Then I saw the same picture with my friend's Amiga 2000 with a RGB monitor - I was shocked! My picture looked crummy and the pixels were clear - and that clarity destroyed the whole effect!
In any case, televisions are BRIGHT, monitors are DIM.. bright pixel graphics always looks better anyway. For gameplaying, bright and colorful pixels of a bigscreen television always beat some silly VGA monitor with it's overly clear pictures. If you are going to have this kind of pixels, you might as well use an emulator already.
You know, when you emulate things, everything looks the same - it's those same, awfully clear pixels all the time - it just feels and seems so surreal, not realistic at all. When you look at an Atari 800 game or an Atari 2600 game, A Commodore 16 game or even an Amiga game without any kind of PAL emulation - it just looks WRONG.
With the real machine and a television, preferrably with RF cable, the picture is just perfect for all these systems (well, I can't say for Atari 800, I haven't seen it yet on a tv, but I always look at it's graphics in an emulator and feel like something important is missing from the graphics).
I of course meant only for ME, everyone can surely make up their own mind and have the freedom to have their own opinions. I was only trying to express the lack of need for any video-mod for my Atari 2600jr, don't try to push that on me ok? Thanks.
- Monk
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Can you attach the binaries here? It is difficult to know what files you are referring to otherwise. In general, anything that works automatically with Stella should work with the Harmony (since the Harmony uses the same ROM auto-detection mechanism).
Yes, I understand.
It was probably a bad dump, because it works with Stella, but not Harmony Cart, and I found that the real name of the game is 'Sir Lancelot' - and I had many versions of that in my directories in the Harmony Cart, and I got one of them working (I didn't test the others), so never mind the Lancelot.
Here, I tried to attach the Defender 2 16k version that didn't work with Harmony Cart (I tested it again just to be sure)
Maybe the same thing applies to the Defender II though, that it's just a bad dump.. I can try to find some other version of that 16k version.
- Monk
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The Longhorn Engineer makes Videomods
I am somehow against videomods anyway.. I guess I feel it's a bit 'too much', and besides, I love the RF signal and it's picture. 'too' clear picture would just be no fun!
I have a monitor for the C64, but I always rather use the TV anyway - the monitor picture is too 'clear', and that spoils the fun of it all. I like the pixels interacting with the oldskool television - with too much clarity this won't happen anymore.
As long as it's not an EXTRA interference, everything is ok.
The only thing about the Atari signal is that it's so weak that I can't really keep any other computers turned on at the same time if I want to see what I am playing.. it takes a lot of interference from the other systems, even a speaker/amplifier thing I have connected to the television.
The C64 is not as sensitive, and the C64's RF signal is VERY powerful - I didn't even have the cable connected, and the television played the music so clearly it was scary, and showed an almost clear picture.. the C16 and Atari 2600 have much weaker signals.
But I digress, my original point was that videomodding is a bit too much modern stuff mixed in with the original, authentic thing.. if I want clear pixels, I might as well use an emulator and a VGA monitor or whatever.
- Monk
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The Longhorn Engineer makes great video mods for the Atari 2600. Using one of these would probably solve your interference problems, and would give you a much clearer picture in any case. Using a properly shielded cable would probably also remove the need for the tinfoil.
Yes, I know he does. I checked his site.. quite EXPENSIVE, compared to my solution..(as I can't solder, I'd have to send the Atari all the way to USA etc..) (-8
Besides, the picture is just perfect right now - there are no interference or picture quality problems now.
I don't think a good cable would remove the need for the tinfoil, it's just not logical. I mean, the interference seems to be happening in the core of the Atari (there the tinfoil is located), not in the cable (I have tried so many cables, shielded and not-so-shielded, and only a couple of times I got the interference to 'almost' nil, by using my hand with the cable)..
This was a truly weird and mysterious problem that defied all explanations, but now it's all over, problem is solved, and everything is just perfect (just came back from playing many great games utilizing the Harmony Cart, always had perfect picture quality)!
So thanks a lot anyway!
By the way, you are one of those Harmony Cart Creator Masters, aren't you?
*bows*
Thank you for this great portal to awesomeness!
Sincerely,
- Monk
A joyful Harmony Cart utilizer
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If anyone finds binaries that don't work, please post them so we can evaluate them. All proper legacy binaries except Megaboy should work. If any don't, we can probably figure out why and fix Harmony (or the binaries.)
Yes, I have found a couple of games that don't work so far. I did find more with the previous unit but with the new one some of the games now work, and I haven't yet checked all those that didn't work previously.
But these games definitely won't work with Harmony Cart:
- Lancelot (I only have 'Lancelot.bin')
- Defender II (16k version)
I must note that the regular Defender II works just fine.
Harmony Cart is a great and cool thing, I really like tinkering with it now! (as there's no more interference now, hehe)
I would really like to know how to get Lancelot working, as it is a very neat little game that I like a lot.
- Monk
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Monk, before doing other things, I think you should test your console with a good shielded cable like the one I have just bought:
Why? Everything works now, so I don't have a reason to do any more tests.
(It can't be the cable only, because I used the same coaxial and with the aluminium foil wrap there's no more interference - I didn't change the cable, and yet there's no interference anymore)
Thanks anyways for the tip .. the coaxial cable was 18 EUR, so I am not gonna purchase any more cables unless -absolutely-required- by something..
- Monk
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shameless plug... Video mod?
Granted PAL is still in the works.
Was this directed at me?
Heh, I wouldn't call it a video mod, I just put some aluminium foil paper around the Harmony Cart when it was attached into the Atari without the cover..
The bad side is I can't use the cover at all now, because I couldn't find a way to use the aluminium foil paper in such a manner that it would've removed the interference with the cover on. I can only do it without the cover.
Besides, I kind of accidentally mutilated the cover a bit, so that wouldn't probably even work anymore.. heh.. well, to me the visuals of the PICTURE on the screen is more important than the visuals of the ATARI UNIT on the table.. (-8
But finally there's 0% interference, phew. Took a long time but finally.
I guess we helped each other out here - Zargon (I hope I remembered the name correctly, sorry if I misspelled it!) first insisted about the RF cables 'entanglement' or 'loops' affecting it (so I tested it with my curious results with the hand), then I explained those results to Philsan, who proceeded to test a brand new RF cable - and then opening his Darth Vader case and explaining how it removed the interference when he just changed a cable back and forth - so I thought perhpas opening MY Atari, SOMETHING could be done..
And as I couldn't find anything else I could've done, as a last resort I thought to try that aluminium foil that I finally got, but I didn't expect it to totally remove the interference.. (I am not sure if it would've been possible to have done this internally into the Harmony Cart though, because it doesn't affect at all if the cover is on) .. but it did!
So I had to figure a way to get the START and SELECT-buttons working, and the only way to do that with Atari 2600jr was to either use the cover, or take the thin strip-type of a cable off the cover and just manually using it with my fingers from thereon..
It's not a pretty setup but it WORKS, and that's all I care about, hehe. At least now I know always what to do if the interference problem happens. And now we can inform others, if someone new also starts having this problem.
Thanks for EVERYONE for their kind attitude, their friendliness, their genuine helpfulness, their information, their wise-cracks, and their general comments about all this.
It has all been very helpful in one way or another, and at the very least you guys have kept me interested in trying to solve the problem and helped me have hope about this.
I am now only wondering if it would be possible to construct some kind of device that would destroy the interference in a way that the cover could still be used. Does anyone have any ideas about this?
Thank you, everyone, again!
Sincerely,
- Monk
An Enthusiastic Harmony Cart User
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The Harmony Cart is probably the BEST purchase I have ever made.
I have had so much joy from it today - I am still feeling excited all over, and it's user-friendliness, the ingenious menu system, the handy way every cool and user-friendly feature is executed just makes me radiate gratitude towards those brilliant people who have uplifted the mundane misery of so many people!
It is a very generous and compassionate thing to do, such a sacrifice with hard work and lots of hassle and trouble - just to bring us very low-priced, very affordable piece of pure joy and genius - I can never put my feelings to words, how much it touches me that there are people like this in existence, and thus I cannot never really thank enough..
But THANK YOU, thank you so very much from my whole being as a human point of existence in this endless Cosmos - Thank you, mr. Batari!
Thank you, mr. Cd-w!
Thank you, mr. Stephena!
Thank you, mr. Delicon!
Thank you, mr. Jentzsch!
Thank you, mr. Supercat!
Thank you, mr. Strum!
Thank you, mr. Yarusso!
I really appreciate your kind deed of the most wonderful kind - THANK YOU ALL!
Sincerely,
- Monk
p.s. Harmony Cart is SOOOOOO COOOLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (-8
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Exactly, I have done nothing else.
The problem is in those delicate thin RF cables bundled with consoles/computers.
All these cables are similar. I think they are not very well shielded.
Opening VCSs and Darth Vaders could surely help because the internal motherboard plug could have problems or the cable do a particular bend before coming out from the console.
Yes, the problem is PARTIALLY those RF cables.. I mean, heh.. I finally got ALL the interference away permanently, but it wasn't by changing any cables.
To really explain it, perhaps a photo would be best..
http://www.aijaa.com/v.php?i=5601873.jpg
This was the ONLY time I saw the interference vanish -completely-, except for those rare times when I used my hand with the other cable (it didn't work with the coaxial)..
(too bad this is gonna be the permanent solution, as it is a bit crude, but I couldn't figure out how to make this work with the cover attached - I tried many different solutions but none of it worked, it gets too fragmented because the cover creates a separation)
Please don't kill me..
.. but I was now immensely enjoying Atari gameplaying, now that the interference is gone AND the picture quality is just BEEAAUUTIFUL! Couldn't ask for anything more!- Monk
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Today I have opened my Darth Vader to test it with the 2600 jr. good new RF cable.
No "Harmony cart interferences" (but 2600 jr. overall image quality was better).
I have plugged again the original Darth Vader RF cable and... surprise... no "Harmony cart interferences" and the same good image quality of 2600 jr.)!
How do you explain that, exactly?
I mean, you removed the cable that caused interference, then you tested the other cable and plugged the old cable back - and the interferences were gone? Is your new RF cable some kind of magical HEALING cable? (-8
I am just wondering what is different now - did you do anything else different than change the cables? Obviously something removed the interference that the original cable caused (if the same cable isn't causing it anymore!)..
This is one diabolical mystery, heh.. but are you saying that opening the Atari and tinkering with it could help somehow?
- Monk
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Monk, the cable bundled with my 2600 jr. is like the thin one I attached in post #52.
This thin cable is similar to many other ones included with old computers and consoles.
How does the cable differ from the other similar-looking cables? Or does it visually look identical, but just has some difference inside?
I hate problems like this.. with my luck with this kind of thing I am never gonna get the correct cable. Well, the coaxial cost me already 18 EUR so I am gonna use it, come hell or high water..
- Monk
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You should be able a build a complete connection by yourself. Buy a good cable (not a cheap one like 2m for less than 5€) and the required plugs separately. Putting them together is no rocket science.
I have an idea; would it be perhaps a nice or neat idea for some handyman here (I could NEVER do something like that - never, ever, ever) to manufacture such cables and sell them here? Like as a special solution to the Harmony Cart interference - that same handyman could then test the cables before he sells them, and thus we would know for sure, that the cable is 100% interference free with Harmony Cart!
I mean, Atariage did have some kind of 'shop' or 'store', didn't it? I don't really know much about Atariage yet, as I am still such a newbie, but perhaps someone could think about it and then perhaps explain if it'd be possible or not. I know I would preorder or purchase such cable (provided that I could use paypal to pay) immediately..
Too bad the interference is so rare though - perhaps it wouldn't be a good business, because so many people here seem to either have some coaxial solution or a video mod I presume.. or perhaps the american TV connection system is so different that the interference never even becomes an issue, I don't know.
Oh well .. the coaxial is good enough for the NTSC Atari, so that's probably what I have to live with.
Thanks for all the help again!
- Monk
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Monk, with new 2600 jr. I mean a brand new, never used, 2600 jr. Obviously it was manufactured many years ago.
Well, obviously. I only meant that is this something you recently purchased, just in case that you might not have tested the other cables with it and perhaps the Atari itself would be the cause, but you already told me how it is, so never mind.
In the past days I have tested it with not new RF cables and I always had interference problems.
With the new RF cable I don't have interferences and menu screen is clear, without background interferences.
Could you take some photos of the cable, or do you know the brand or name or whatever - I mean, I am very interested in that cable for obvious reasons.. I would like to know all there is to know about it.
My Coaxial cable is very nice with the NTSC Atari, but even that has to be 'adjusted' to correct position.. still, that makes the interference appear small enough not to bother that much, so I can live with that if only I can get a NTSC television.. (which might be kind of difficult too, I mean - how can I test if a TV is 'true NTSC' or just 'Pal60 but says it's NTSC' in a store? By bringing the NTSC Atari with me and asking the sales people to let me plug it in? heh.. it's gonna be a problem)
I have not tested the good cable with my 4-switch and Darth Vader consoles.
I have to open them.
At least in Darth Vader's console, the cable is connected to mainboard with the same 2600 jr. plug, so it's an easy task.
I have found many RF cables on ebay but I want to be sure to buy cables without interferences with Harmony cart.
Oh, of course not - I thought for some reason that you also had an older Atari 2600jr somewhere, that you tested RF cables with.
Are you saying that if you open the Darth Vader model, you can just unplug the cable and change it??
Yeah, the best cable would be SHIELDED RCA-plug RF cable.. an 'ordinary' RF cable isn't good enough because of the plug. But I don't even know if such cables exist.. so I'll probably settle with the coaxial thing, just hoping to get the NTSC television next month.. gonna be a long wait, heh..
- Monk
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But, instead of my spare RF cables, this time I have used the brand new RF cable bundled with my new 2600 jr. console.
No interferences with PAL60 and PAL50 firmwares!
Just how 'new' this Atari 2600jr is? Did you try with the older cables, if it still gives interference? (I am thinking, perhaps the new Atari doesn't give interference anyway)
Did you try the new, good RF cable with the other Ataris as well? Same result?
I can never get it COMPLETELY away, so I must still not have the proper cable.. can you show a picture of that cable and it's plugs, perhaps some information of it so I could try to hunt a duplicate of it somehow ..
Thanks.
- Monk
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PROBLEM SOLVED!
Harmony cart, more than other normal carts, needs a very good RF cable.
So, users with interference problems must only buy a new cable (2600 jr.) or buy a new cable and open the console (VCS or 2600).
The new question is: where to buy very good quality RF cables?
Yes, another question comes to mind; are there users which have a Harmony Cart and also Atari 2600 VCS/Darth Vader, that do NOT have any interference? (in which case we can probably conclude that the NTSC-Ataris have better inbuilt cable systems, or the american television standard makes a big difference here, and I mean the standard for the physical cable connections and such)
I would like to see some videos from other people .. For example, the menu is still garbled and gives that horrid dentist drill noise even with the coaxial cable.. I'd like to know if it's the Atari's fault - the NTSC version gives more clear menu, but I can't say about the noise (it does give a weird sound but I think that's just because the sound doesn't work with my television with NTSC signal)
Do many people have absolutely clear menus, with RF connections?
- Monk
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Actually, I don't know what the problem is. It clearly isn't the cable. That is pretty obvious by now.
No, it clearly IS the cable or the plugs of the cable.
RF cables are a bit sensitive. The plugs have to be mounted correctly and also the plugs have to fit well into the device, else the shielding will not work well. Also I have seen devices and plugs with the center signal pins shortened to the other grounding connector, which will have the same bad results.
Hmm, you may be right. The coaxial cable solution worked quite nicely with the NTSC Atari - there's still interference but it's in a tolerable level, so if I just get a NTSC television, everything should be perfect then.
I have kinda given up on the PAL Atari anyway, as it doesn't even support paddles - but for now I must use it because it's the only Atari I have that outputs color and sound with my televisions..
Philsan is asking a good question- WHERE to get good RF cables? It should be RF/RCA-cable - meanig, RF-cable with shielding AND RCA-plugs!
That might be a tad difficult thing to find in the modern world.. but I guess this is making a lot of sense now. If I just had a great quality well shielded and grounded RF/RCA-cable, then things would work just perfectly. I guess the Coaxial with the plugs isn't a perfect solution, perhaps there is some 'leakage' or something as maybe they can never be tightly enough fitted for the grounding to be as perfect as with the hand.
Thanks for all your patience btw, and sorry for my stupidity.. it's an inborn quality.
- Monk
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounding
How does the hand improve the shielding?It works like a (bad) grounding replacement.
Well, how could I get a good one? The hand is the best feature I've seen so far.. I mean, nothing else has ever produced as clear picture as of yet.
Besides, I think you must understand about electricity and electromechanics to read that wikipedia article.. I tried to read it but I really didn't understand much of it. So if a hand can be grounding, could I replace the hand with something? That'd be the ideal solution.
-- NEWS UPDATE! --
I tried the coaxial cable (with the RCA adapters) with the NTSC-Atari 2600jr, and that actually diminishes the interference to a tolerable level!
So if I can only get an NTSC supporting television, I cease to have a problem anymore..
Thank you all for your support and suggestions, and sharing of information and tips!
Sincerely,
- Monk
- Monk
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At least you know what the problem is now. Once the problem is found, a solution will follow.
Actually, I don't know what the problem is. It clearly isn't the cable. That is pretty obvious by now. It clearly isn't the Atari, as the same Atari can be very clear or very interferenced, depending on location. It clearly isn't location, as otherwise all Ataris would behave the same in a certain location, but they don't. It clearly isn't Harmony Cart, as other cartridges exhibit the exact same behaviour. It isn't the TV, it isn't the PSU for similar reasons..
- Monk
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Harmony - questions & observations
in Harmony Cartridge
Posted
Really? I tried this to all Congo Bongo versions I have, but none of them still work. A short greyish distorted line flashes and waves and then black screen.
Well, it's not such a big loss anyway, I mean, there are better versions of Congo Bongo. You can't have everything, and perfection can never be attained on this physical plane anyways..
Great cart, that Harmony Cart, I must say.. have had soooo much fun with it lately!
- Monk