ledzep

I assume you're talking about your kid but when I read it "the other way" it cracks me up so hard I can't see, hahaahahaa. That's the kicker right there, hahaahahaha.

I'm also curious about this, specifically about the 5200 Intellidiscs game.

Hahaha, that thing makes Dragon's Lair look like Star Raiders in terms of controlling the game. I don't know how young I'd have to be to want to play that game. Man, the crap you guys have to tolerate to make money, I sympathize.

Well, if what they're playing isn't really a game, more of an interactive ride, and they reject actual games that are right next to the "rides" in the same arcade, what are you expecting them to be called? It's like saying people who only listen to audio books should still be called readers. Uh, no.

Ha, you're welcome, you're free to use that for an arcade location name if you like. Truth in advertising. I think this is more of what I was talking about. In the big big places I'm sure there are little sections of nothing, not big enough for the large modern games where a couple old games could be placed here or there. Not specifically for a "retro arcade", more for like the people who are there as part of a group who just don't like "playing" an slightly interactive movie more than once or twice and would rather play the real version of whatever retro game they have at home. So it wouldn't be approached as another "official" money-making section of the arcade arcology, just a few games to fill in small areas. I wish bowling alleys would have 2-4 games in them still, they have the room, it would be a way to pass the time while waiting for a lane to open up. I remember the Shakey's near me, during the arcade game heyday, and before it expanded the back of it to include a bunch of useless redemption carnival games, had like 3 arcade cabs in the little walkway to the restrooms. Centipede, Sprint 2, can't remember what else, they changed occasionally. It was great fun for me & my brother while we waited for the pizza or after we were done eating. Not enough games to "go to Shakey's" specifically to play arcade games (we had real arcades all over town for that... I'm not crying, I have allergies...) but when we were there, game time. And it also made the decision for which pizza place to go to much easier for our parents, hahaaha. You are a hero, dammit! Hahahaa, but that brings up another aspect of this whole industry that I don't get but is found everywhere, which is enough money or good money isn't ever enough, these places are always shooting mostest most money. It's aggravating, something makes money, some, a little, whatever, but that's clearly "not enough" so out it goes in the chase for most money. I can understand if the whole facility is losing money, changes have to be made to keep the doors open, but if it's doing well with the various modern not-games and the rest (Dave & Buster's), what does it hurt to add a few actual arcade games? Does that somehow force all the other entertainments to make less money? No. So why not have a few in various corners for those people who can stomach a challenge? Add, not replace, keep the money-making crap there, make money, but also have a few bright lights of real gaming in the darkness of minimally interactive movies.

I hope you realize that all that existed back in the glory days of Castle Park type arcades (miniature golf, arcade games, possibly waterslides). I had quite a few fun experiences playing with random people during 2-player games (yes, the mega-multiplayer games didn't exist yet except for the occasional 3-4 person racing games) along with watching someone own Star Castle or Tempest or whatever. I mean, does nobody remember how crowds could form watching great players get high scores in the '80s? (Odin, if I could win the lottery I'd recreate that arcade for me and my friends, game-for-game!) Now obviously, as that clip illustrates, smaller cabs = less room to watch someone else play so I do see the draw for big screens for big 4-8 player games. But then, as has been mentioned, that also requires big bucks to buy (and maintain, I suppose) along with needing loads of room to house those monstrosities. Oh, that guy can go to hell, hahaaha. Nobody's here to see you audition for an action movie, bro. On the other hand I can understand being so goddamn good at the game that you can afford to entertain yourself by doing those goofy moves and still pwn that game. Now, if a modern version of that game could recognize when you're doing those moves (ducking backwards, shooting over your shoulder vs. playing the boring way via some kind of shape recognition/gun orientation sensor) and hand out extra points (assuming there would be points for a possible high score) then you'd have something, but I suspect that a lot of couch potato virtual heroes would turn their uncoordinated fat ankles trying to be John Wick and wind up in a cast, hahaahaha. It would serve them right for not growing up playing sports.

This may seem like a stupid question/idea but, considering the size of some of these FECs, couldn't they have a section (to the side, as not to embarrass the non-gamers) of old or Recharged normal arcade games? You'd still have the big screen super games, the lightgun games, etc., in the main areas but then maybe a revolving group of like 8-10 legitimate classic arcade games (so, not all Pac-Man/Donkey Kong type games) so that the actual gamers that have roped into Birthday Boy's party at Galaxy Of Minimally Interactive Movies can still find a way to have some fun. I think it could be done since, considering the mammoth size of these modern cabinets, the older arcade games could fit into a relatively small area. That is depressing, though at least, as you say, that one game can last a while. A lot of this shit looks like all icing, no cake. But these places have to make money and their audience can't be bothered to try hard anymore. Bigger, brighter, louder, they're happy.

Oh, that's funny, so then they were kind of mimicking how Japanese game names get translated to English? I wonder what that game is called in Japanese. So it's not hopeless, just mostly hopeless, got it, hahaahaha.

Which is baffling to me. It's the same game as the fire hose gun game! The pace is the same, the obstacles are mostly the same (I will agree that the newer game has some cool ideas), you just have 1/10th the bullets and the enemies are 1/10th as strong. I really don't get it that they think that matters or is some kind of significant difference. It's like putting a body kit on a Fiero, now it's a Ferrari! No, it's a Fiero with a different shape, drives the same, sounds the same. I can see it for some sort of bonus round level or clear everything level, like in Galaga, but not such a wide swath of bullets eating up like 1/5 of the whole screen real estate. How lazy can you get? Aim once in a while! I meant in terms of an updated scrolling game with multiple levels to clear (still using the roller controller, of course), much like that newer Donkey Kong clone was. Donut Dodo Do!, I assume that's a translation of a Japanese game title? Always love the English version of anime titles, how ridiculous they wind up sometimes.

Aw man, that game would be fantastic if it wasn't a virtual roller coaster but was totally directable, like the Battletech version. Which would actually be hard and challenging (verboten, obviously) and it would take a few runs to get the hang of it.

Not blaming you, hahaaha, but I automatically rolled my eyes the moment that video started. Not just more, but MORE more!! Ok, but that seems more or less to be Scramble with 10x the shots (yours and enemies'), the power-ups are ridiculous in terms of strength. Do people who like this game see that Scramble (and Super Cobra) are essentially the same game and like them, too, or do they think that this game is way better (and "totally different") just because of the fire hose of shots, not actually seeing that the game speed is the same, the movement is similar? I mean, if you shoot 10x the shots but the enemy targets can absorb 10x the shots, it boils down to 1 shot/1 kill like the older games, anyways. I wonder what these non-gamers must think of a movie like "The Accountant" or "The Bourne Identity", for instance - "Why doesn't he just walk around with a minigun and grenade launchers firing from his shoulders when he has to fight those assassins!??!" I can see that. But then it's not a new type of game, simply an advanced Super Mario Bros. Same as Space Duel was an advanced Asteroids. So that makes sense to me in terms of popularity. The basic game is Xevious style, just with way too many shots. Again, multiplying everything by 10+ doesn't add or change anything, it just has more shit on the screen at once to kill off 10x stronger targets. Dare I say it? Maybe if you added a lightgun or a steering wheel, hahaahaha. Problem solved! I still loved the old Karate Champ game because the dual joysticks afforded a lot of attack/defend options. It took a few games to get the moves down but, once you did, it was a really cool fighting game. Well, that's because it is Donkey Kong, just with new levels and slightly better graphics (with old font and sounds to appeal to Donkey Kong fans). Which isn't the worst thing if the old game levels bored you at this point, on to Chapter 2 (or 3 or whatever). That is a problem, you can only be new and novel once in a given example. I just don't get the general vibe of these non-gamers that the older controls are a waste of time, they only seem to want lightguns and steering wheels. Seems very limiting. But if it makes arcade owners money, they have to accept reality. Well, again, that was a very poor choice for an update, Gravitar wasn't only a bitch to play, it wasn't that common back in the day, either, although I think it was a little more common than Black Widow (another game in that Space Duel conversion cab family). So even in terms of nostalgia, that's asking a lot. Maybe a modern version of a game built off of Star Castle might have been better (different "color" vector game). I wonder if an updated Major Havoc would be attractive. They've got to be out in the wild first. This is unfortunately no longer the era of finding a couple arcade games in every convenience store in the neighborhood. When I do make it to some kind of arcade place that has some of the old games, I definitely play them.

That is probably the best, most accurate description of what those non-gamers are and how different they are from actual gamers along with what they're expecting in terms of "gaming" experience (since I agree, those aren't really games in the traditional sense of the slightly interactive movie you describe). What's funny is a lot of them somehow still insist that they are actual gamers when they can't stomach playing actual arcade games that are challenging and require accuracy and precision. Especially because they'll slag old games as being boring when they seem to really mean is there's not guns auto-firing to blanket the screen or enough easy power-ups or whatever. Ya, that would be a tough reality to deal with as an arcade owner. Or, more accurately, an "arcade" owner if those things are what's most popular. I've never heard of that Transformers game (or seen it), but how does it compare to those Battletech Virtual World games? I know those graphics would be considered miserable now, but the gameplay itself with the enclosed pods that make you feel like you're operating a walking tank, dodging bad guys' bullets and firing back as you say, how would that fly do you think with modern non-gamers?

Ya, I think local tastes matter as much as national averages. I loved Rip-Off when it was current. My wrists hated it, hahaaha. I suppose that makes more sense with groups (birthdays), too. I mean back in the day the arcade was as much for individuals (smaller cabinets than modern games, environmental versions) as for groups, even though most games were one-at-a-time. Now you have lots of 2 or 3 can play in one sitting options and those arcades are more for groups to come in from what I have seen (Dave & Busters with the food and alcohol as well). "Gun games and drivers" to me sounds the same as how many bowling alleys now de-emphasize actual bowling and really push the playing in the dark with glowing colored pins "party" atmosphere that totally negates actual bowling skill (I can bowl well, bowling in the dark makes me about as effective as a buzzed player who doesn't bowl, it's miserable). But I'm sure they make way more money that way than catering to serious bowlers or leagues. You're making me not want to go to arcades anymore, hahaaha. That first game, it's just noise, a fire hose of shots blanketing the screen, there's no challenge. Even for people who want dumbed-down games, how long can they play that? Just keep your finger on the fire button, slide up and down, yay. There are some interesting layers that would be difficult to escape if you didn't have a solid wall of gunfire to save you. I would love to see a challenging version of that game - get rid of the useless animated backgrounds, get rid of the fire hose guns (have it closer to Asteroids or Defender shooting volume), I'd play that. The second game is just Super Mario Bros. with a green turd jumping around. Do the gamers who play that know about Super Mario Bros.? Meaning, do they see that they're playing mostly the exact same thing? I take it there's no modern Super Mario Bros. in arcades otherwise why play this thing. That third one is worse than the first, Xevious with an impenetrable wall of gunfire. At least the scrolling background makes more sense. The last one looks interesting, a modernized side view fighting game. I'm curious how the controllers are in terms of gamer popularity. I hope modern arcade fans don't think their games are tough or challenging compared to older designs. They would probably want to use a minigun to go deer hunting (with stupid background music). That's not Space Invaders, that's Missile Centipede Command, hahaaha. Not a bad idea, but it completely removes the challenge of Space Invaders (place your limited shots well) for lazy instant gratification. Keep shooting, you'll eventually hit everything! Reminds me of when the Playstation first came out and some people got high scores by just repeatedly pressing all the buttons on their gamepads over and over with no knowledge or understanding of what the individual buttons and combinations were for (especially true for Japanese import games with unreadable instructions), they would just luck into the right sequences because button mashing. A better "true" Space Invaders experience would have been the same game but looking up as they come down, meaning the closer invaders almost totally screen the farther away invaders (unless you can aim just to the side of one of the lower ones) instead of being able to sweep all the upper rows with the cannon (and the shots take a second or so to get up to the invaders). Part of the challenge of the original was having to deal with the bottom-up aspect of the invaders, really hard to hit the top ones first. This one is another fire hose, though not as insane. It would be fun, I guess, especially playing with kids, but mindless after a while. I think modern gamers get frustrated with having to be accurate and precise, they have no time or interest to try to be good, they just want to win it all immediately. They have almost no patience. With that lightgun design they can just sweep across where the targets are and probably always nail them, they don't have to actual aim the fucking guns anymore, just get it in the ballpark, success! And driving games are obvious, everyone has driven a car or ridden a bike before, probably, it's obvious how to do decent from the first sitting. Flying is harder if the controls are realistic, throttle/yoke/pedals, but just a yoke makes it similarly easy and obvious. Have there been any basically accurate helicopter flying sim games? That would probably be cool. Well, to be fair, when Asteroids first came out none of us gamers had any nostalgia or pre-built history about it, it was just a new game that was fantastic. And hard. Modern gamers really hate an actual strategy challenge I guess. Just let me shoot everything at once!! Back in the day we wouldn't dismiss a game simply because it didn't have the same control scheme as previous games, either. Nobody hated Star Wars because it wasn't a joystick game, nobody hated Centipede because it didn't use directional buttons. If fact, many of us would tend to be more interested in a game if it had something visibly unique (control layout) compared to known games. Didn't always succeed, of course, but most games won many fans. If the gameplay was good. Most gamers would walk away from games when they got too good at them or the games were too easy to begin with. I can only imagine how boring Tempest be with a fire hose gun or how easy it would be to clear Pac-Man mazes with power-ups that gave you 10x speed or shields or smart bombs to wipe out the ghosts over and over. You ain't kidding, hahaaha, Gravitar is one of the last games I'd build a new game off of, it's hard as fuck dealing with that wonky gravity direction shit. But it is challenging and very satisfying if you can get through even a couple of levels all the way through on one life. I wouldn't base any conclusions about modern retro game success off of this game, though. That game would be perfect for MAME or home consoles, I bet. Sort of like that VCTR-SCTR throwback VCS game. I commend whoever designed it, an actual gamer.

Ooh, ya, I'm in for one. Just saw this posting.

I'm sure this is obvious to most MAME users, but is it possible for MAME to emulate those stand-alone games or is the circuitry just too simplistic or lacking of CPU type microchips? I thought there were a few arcade games that hadn't been added to MAME for such a reason, some daughter board or something that wasn't a typical type of board that could be reverse engineered or whatever the process is.

Right? I know they're military but they're also no longer used so I wonder if someone has a working example in a house somewhere, maybe from a decommissioned/scrapped old battleship or cruiser. I won't say they're obsolete because I'm pretty sure the Iowa battleships still used them when they were modernized because they fucking work great (no need to replace them) and they cannot be jammed by any electromagnetic attack (though I suppose a lack of lubrication could jam them up regardless, hahaaha), at least that's what I remember from the tour I took of the Iowa some years ago. There has to be a way to convert that into a home video game. For the nerdy types, I don't see much "action" in such a game, it would be more like Stellar Track vs. a more typical Star Raiders experience. Definitely not in an arcade, haha.

Agreed, I was just surprised that he hadn't read that the plan was for these arcade Recharged games to be mostly true to the original control schemes.

You're the one who brought up that gamers who spend hundreds of dollars on games and consoles are magically cheap when it come to controllers. I disagreed. That was the point you made about cheap that I was talking about. People would want trak-balls for games that require trak-balls. But programmers have usually recoded the games for joysticks instead, fundamentally changing many of those games. Analog sticks are fundamentally trak-balls in terms of playing experience (velocity + direction), though less accurate, yet they're very popular. Many players I've know will use a ball mouse instead if the option is possible. Ah, I see your confusion. You refuse to read through links. Alan-1 has already mentioned, in this thread I believe, that they're going to be going with the original type of arcade controls when possible, meaning buttons for Asteroids and trak-balls for Missile Command, etc. Did you really just gloss over that because it doesn't fit your everybody loves gamepads now mindset? No, what you do is insist that everybody wants lightguns and steering wheels in arcades. I don't like trak-balls every time, I like them for games designed for them. That means Missile Command, Centipede, Quantum, etc. I don't think a trak-ball works as well for Tempest or Major Havoc compared to their original controllers. I think that changing the control scheme fundamentally changes the gameplay. For the worse. Alan-1 seems to agree based on their statements about future Recharged games. But you'd have to read what they said earlier in order to understand. Don't change what I wrote by deleted half of it. The examples I gave about obsolete systems or tech were in terms of being out-of-date or less functional than newer/better systems. Carburetors vs. electronic fuel injection, 8-bit CPUs vs. 32-bit+ CPUs, so yes of course there are such things as obsolete things. Do you really just ignore half of what people write? The only controllers that are bad ideas for arcade machines are ones that don't fit well. Joysticks are bad for games designed for paddles, for example. Yes, it's still possible to play the games but once the better fit controller is added, the game is better. Missile Command is far better with a trak-ball, ask any 5200 owner. Yes it does matter when the original intent of the game design was to mimic (crudely, this is for arcades afterall) a missile battery station. If the players don't know what's more authentic or not then they have no basis to believe that the trak-ball version is inaccurate or unnecessary. That doesn't stop someone else from making a similar game that uses your favored lightgun to shoot at missiles but then that's just another shooting gallery. As an aside, how do you think missiles are aimed on modern cruisers? You think there's someone standing on the deck aiming a laser up at incoming missiles? Or would it be better to designate a target using a mouse/trak-ball or a lightpen onto a radar-type display that can track multiple targets and then have the system lock on that target and launch? You should watch video of how battleships would designate targets and aim their main batteries, those mechanical computers are amazing. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/05/gears-of-war-when-mechanical-analog-computers-ruled-the-waves/ I would play a 5200 game that simulated that hellish dance of calculations, hahaaha. Make up your mind. More authentic for a Missile Command type game = trak-ball and buttons. Live with it. A first-person space ship game would not use buttons, you're right. Asteroids isn't a first-person perspective game, the player is viewing the ship from above and from a great distance. Or, more accurately, on a display screen that represents what the ship is doing out in space somewhere, the player is unaffected by the ship's movement. So buttons are fine. A spinner would be fine as well. So there's no requirement for cockpit type controls. If Asteroids were converted to a Star Wars type of game then you'd have an argument for more of a ship flying type of set-up. Odin, look up the design of a mouse and compare it to a trak-ball. Both use reluctor wheels in 2 axes to control movement on a 2-dimensional plane (X and Y directions, no Z). Now modern mice use light to interpret movement but they can sometimes be fooled if the mouse is on the wrong surface type (no movement). Even so, the control is the same, analog movement (direction + velocity) in 2 axes. Again, I'd love to see you try to use a lightgun aimed at your computer screen and claim that it's a better, more natural fit than a mouse or touchpad for controlling cursor placement. I won't be surprised by the excuses you'll give me for why now lightguns are all of a sudden less than ideal. Yes, for ground targets if the soldier is actually in line-of-sight to that target. If the target is moving the laser has to stay on the target or the bomb/missile will miss it and strike where the last laser position was. I don't know if you are aware of this but the targets in the Missile Command game are in the sky. Now, I can see a Time Crisis type of shooting gallery game where the player is using a lightgun to paint ground targets and wait, impatiently, for the bombs to hit those targets, especially if they're moving. And if there are enemy combatants shooting at the player he would have to duck down (same mechanism as in Time Crisis) to avoid being shot but then lose sight of the target so that he'd have to pop back up and hope that he could still reacquire the target in time for the bomb to hit it. Could be a very fun game, I'd definitely play that. Even better would be 2-player where the other guy has a normal assault rifle to protect the laser designator player. Wouldn't be Missile Command. Hahaha, no, I'm using authenticity as a justification to maintain more authentic controls. You are the one using personal preference to maintain impractical controls. As I said earlier, a mouse and a trak-ball are fundamentally the same, the mouse is just the upside down version. For the mouse, the controller moves in space and the surface remains stationary. For the trak-ball, the controller remains stationary and the surface (hand) is moving. Seriously, read a book on the subject, it's not complicated. Not for an arcade game based on a simplified missile station simulation it isn't. Missile Command is a sim of the screen view that the remote gunner is seeing and using to designate targets on that screen that missile batteries can fire at. What you're talking about is more like the old electromechanical games like Missile where the player is directly aiming a missile battery towards the sky at overhead targets - I've played it, it's fun and difficult. It also ain't Missile Command. Hahaha, ya, you need to read more, like how you can't prove that something doesn't exist. What you have is a guess, you won't know if gamers prefer a lightgun version of Missile Command until there is one that can be compared to a normal trak-ball version of Missile Command Recharged.

I agree, which even back in the day sucked when a cool game got swapped out for a Pac-Man or something because that oddball game wasn't as popular (it was very hard to find a Polaris or Space Firebird game even though both were really fun, I guess most gamers preferred other games) and didn't make enough money for the arcade owner. On the other hand, walking into an arcade back then that had 6 Pac-Mans and 7 Donkey Kongs and not so many other cool games usually meant a short visit from me and the other arcade gamers I knew. Sometimes max profits can be bad in terms of repeat business if there are too many of the same type. True, but there is some risk or guessing in that sense. Who knew that lightgun games would take off before there were lightgun games? But they obviously are popular (I loved Silent Scope though it raped me after that first level every time, hahaaha). But that just shows that the next thing, that isn't currently in arcades, could be the new popular so sticking to lightguns über alles could be very short-sighted in a design sense. Ya, VR is going to be huge, if nothing else for TikTok videos of players tripping over themselves trying to run away from things that don't exist, hahaaha. But a trak-ball (and spinner) are neither, though I get what you're saying about Gen Z nostalgia (or lack thereof). Even so, how many lightgun games can a person want to play? That's just video shooting gallery. Yay. I mean, how many racing games can someone play in one day in an arcade, either? A little variety could go a long way, if just to break up the lightgun lightgun racing lightgun racing racing game choice pattern which seems to be almost all the options in the modern arcades, yes? It wouldn't make any sense as "missile command" and would fundamentally be a different game. Maybe a popular game, as you say, but call it something else and now it's a shooting gallery again but in the sky, I guess you could just as easily be shooting birds out of the air or flying squirrels as they're leaping from tree to tree. I would actually play that if the graphics were cool (blasts of feathers or puffs of fur, little squeals of surprised terror, hahaahaha) but it would get frustrating if the lightguns weren't accurate enough. I agree but I'm not a Gen Z gamer (thank Odin) so my opinion probably doesn't mean much in terms of the large group of lightgun/driving game loving gamers. That Asteroids Recharged looks fun, I can't believe younger gamers would ignore it simply because it doesn't have a lightgun or isn't a driving game. How myopic can you get?

That's not how it's interpreted. "The customer is always right" means each customer, meaning any request or dispute in a typical store, no matter how contradictory their individual demands might be. What you're talking about is "Most of the customers are always right", a very different concept. You keep going to steering wheels, which I agree wouldn't be used much but there are some driving games. I was talking about non-joystick controllers like trak-balls and spinners, which would probably be more expensive than a typical gamepad but no more expensive (probably less) than a steering wheel or flight yoke. Even so, gamers willing to spend all that money on the other shit will be just as happy to spend more on another thing to maximize their gaming consoles. Plenty of them buy gaming mouses (mice) and special chairs to sit in, don't start acting like now they're cheap. No, when people don't want something anymore, it is unpopular because they can change their minds later and want it back. Rear-wheel drive on cars isn't obsolete, it's unpopular, only a few cars have it (though thankfully Tesla at least is bringing that concept back) but show me how many race cars are front wheel drive (there are probably a few, but how many F1, NASCAR, dragsters, etc. are front wheel drive, not rear or all-wheel drive). Carburetors are obsolete (though still popular with classic car fans) because fuel injection is better. But mechanical fuel injection is obsolete, electronic fuel injection is far more reliable and accurate. CRTs are obsolete but very popular with arcade game collectors, and they were far superior in terms of true blacks in colorspace until OLEDs showed up. 8-bit CPUs are obsolete in PCs, the bare minimum is 32-bit currently. I am older of course but even among my younger friends who play video games (at home), none of them have voiced any major preference for lightguns or a desire for most games to be converted to lightgun controls. They also don't seem to voice a preference for arcade games with lightguns. But of course that's not scientific, there may be loads of gamers who pine for lightguns for all the games for all I know. I just haven't seen it or heard of it. The trak-ball is still used by some because it's more accurate than other input devices for certain tasks. Read through those links I posted, for the military it offers something good enough that they seem to still use them today for many tasks. The type of tasks, based on those images, that are similar to Missile Command in terms of identifying or targetting certain areas on a screen. You know what you don't see in those images? A bunch of lightguns. No lightguns in tanks or fighter jets, either. Those use analog sticks or something else. And a mouse is a trak-ball, just upside down. Tell me, are you using a lightgun on your computer to select windows because it's better than a trak-ball? How about to select text or place the cursor? Seems like it should be a common request. True, so you would want to play a game where you hold a lightgun steady on a ground target so that a bomb would hit it. That's not a bad idea though I think people would get a little bored after a while if that's all you can do. But that's not Missile Command where you need to launch multiple ABMs at multiple targets in a fire and forget mode because too many missiles are flying down to be able to paint one target at a time until it's wiped out. A trak-ball is more authentic, look at those links again. The operators are remote from the battlefield, they can't directly paint incoming targets with lasers aimed into the sky, they're in little bays many miles away looking at a screen full of targets. Keep trying to pretend that everybody uses lasers in the military if you like, but Missile Command with a trak-ball is way more realistic than using a lightgun. How many have you asked? Or is this based on other arcade Missile Command-type games with lightguns? I haven't been to a typical (non-retro) arcade in a while but I don't remember seeing any games like that. Well, the home version of Lunar Lander Recharged, ya, I think I agree with you. But I think that Alan-1 is going to de-goofy that version into something worthy of an arcade cabinet. With an authentic thrust controller, thank Odin.

Sigh. If you're advocating for one type of arcade game concept and saying it's the right one because "the customer is always right" even if he's an idiot, how do you resolve that down to one type of arcade game concept when many customers are "right" wanting the game one way and many other customers are "right" wanted the game the opposite way? One arcade implementation cannot satisfy both the lazy home version and an updated arcade version. Ya, I know. But gamers I know who play the more modern systems have no problem buying better/costlier gamepads. So money isn't the issue. It doesn't make fiscal sense to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on new game consoles and libraries of games in the first place. That's a money hole. Not complaining, I've certainly burnt a lot of money on video games (and LEGOs and CDs and movies and...) but I wouldn't say that any of that was fiscally sound. Since they're in the mood to buy loads of shit, what's one more controller with a trak-ball on it? Or a real spinner or whatever? That doesn't speak to obsolescence, it speaks to younger players wanted the easy joystick/buttons control schemes. Because they couldn't handle the more difficult control schemes. And I would assume the expense of adding trak-balls to arcade games. Why would they be obsolete in one arena and not another? They're just as useful as ever. I would say that it's the lack of vision of most current arcade game designers that prevents the wider use of trak-balls or rollers or spinners vs. simple digital joysticks and buttons. Ya, because younger gamers want easier play. I can only imagine how overwhelmed they be if they could step into an '80s arcade having to use not-the-easiest/basic control schemes. Lightgun games are usually pretty boring from what I've seen, it's just too easy to point and shoot at everything. I hope none of these Recharged arcade games use them. Unless it's a game made for it, like a first person shooter such as Time Crisis. Using a lightgun for a game like Centipede or Missile Command would be terrible. What, no lightgun now? Same thing. "Shoot that!" and the missile launches in that direction (same with a touchscreen tablet). It's just a delayed result. No thanks, much better to use what the military seems to use in some situations. It's Missile Command, not Missile Shooting Gallery. You'd really prefer playing Missile Command using a lightgun scheme? A thruster with rotation buttons wouldn't succeed? Have you never heard of Asteroids? Star Castle? Rip-Off? The only difference is that Lunar Lander has the analog thrust instead of the all or nothing thrust of a digital on/off button. I worry that a Recharged Lunar Lander would look too much like a Gravitar (which was a spiritual sequel) but I'd bet that the Alan-1 people could figure it out. There could be other things to land on, like fuel tanks or repair pads or whatever, enemies trying to land first to steal the points or whatever is on the ground, who knows. Maybe instead of shooting the enemies (like Gravitar) the player instead has to bump them out of the way, wouldn't that require some good flying skills! Maybe also landing on an engine module (like the extra stage in Moon Cresta) that would give the player more speed. Using that cool analog thrust controller and rotation buttons. A, uh, challenge. No lightgun, please. Slowly floating around colorful cartoony backgrounds and soaking up dozens of power-ups isn't "action", either, even with endless sleepy background music. I'm really glad that the Asteroids Recharged version is ramping back that goofy shit and leaning more towards the arcade original. I'm not expecting it to be exactly the same but just that sneak peek is encouraging.

I'm not sure what kind of special cabinet would work with this, so I won't go into that (all I can think of is a neon glowy Tron type interior). As for the game itself, looking at the home version - Having the walls angled "back" sucks. Because the angle is so severe it's misleading when an enemy robot seems to walk horizontally right through the end of a vertical wall or shoot you when that end would block the shot in the original version, but since everything is leaning back, visually, at like a 30 degree angle, the robot is actually just past the edge and can actually shoot you. I would make the walls like they were in the original arcade version, or if you insist on angling them back, make it much less of an angle. It was always a cool strategy to be just below the edge of a wall end and then pop out to shoot the robots, I don't see how you do that horizontally with the Recharged version since it's never obvious where the actual edge is. As usual working from the home Recharged versions, make the game less cartoony. Lose the bouncing running for the player, make the robots more like the originals (menacing, not cute). I suppose for multi-player the movement to the next room would have to be handled sort of like Gauntlet? Meaning whoever leaves through a door first forces everyone else to only be able to go through that same door (the other doors would close?) so that the group sticks together. Either that or if the other player leaves out a different door he reappears on that side in the next room? Probably the rooms can have more walls and more ways to move around the rooms, hopefully some dead ends or maybe even diagonal sections? I can't tell if the Recharged version even has electrified walls but, if not, bring those back too, including the section glowing when you're almost touching it (as a warning). A nice low subwoofer hum would be a nice touch. I hate the robots' shots looking like glowing balls, they should go back to the short lines of the original (it helps to tell which direction they're travelling in a room filled with robots and shots). And keep the sound effects closer to the original, too! The shots sounded cool, the exploding robots sounded mean (more bass!). I like the addition of the remote guns in random areas, an actual good idea from the home Recharged version. I would add new ways for the robots to kill you and some power-ups (that only last a few seconds, like 10 seconds or less) - 1) Maybe they can fire proximity mines onto the ground near the player that have to be avoided (if the player gets too close they burst and if he's in the blast radius, bye bye, back up and shoot them so they explode, sort of like the mines in that Nomad level in Star Trek: Strategic Operations Simulator from SEGA). This should probably be a separate type of robot with a noticeably different shape. 2) An obvious power-up would be a gun that can shoot out a wall section so the player can run through it (or help a co-op player escape if cornered), maybe it takes more than one shot, but have limited time (color change or something to indicate if it's still active). 3) A temporary shield power-up. 4) Shots that bank off the walls from a special gun power-up. 4) Maybe also a power-up shot that short-circuits a robot and makes it start attacking other robots? 5) Have a few boss robots that can grab the power-ups and use them against the player. I'm assuming the power-ups would be like your arcade Asteroids Recharged, meaning they just sit there and the players have to go get them. So the boss robot might get one first. That thing should also take 2-3 shots to kill as well. I don't think the Frenzy approach of walls made out of balloons or whatever that can be easily chopped through like a Space Invaders shield would add to the game. Maybe have a few skinny wall sections that appear and disappear sort of like in the higher Tempest levels? Keep the original controls, if possible. Twin-stick makes it too easy, it should be harder to line up a shot, like the original version. it makes it more of challenge to have to stop, even for a moment, to shoot back or diagonally in the opposite direction you're running.

I agree. I have no problem with those changes as concepts, I thought the home Recharged versions did them really really badly (some of those versions are unplayable after 5 minutes). These arcade Recharged versions that Alan-1 is planning look like they will make those changes much better and less severe/ridiculous. Which customer, the one who wants the lazy home version or the one who wants an updated arcade version? Right, they "love" them so much they can't lift a finger to go get them. What do you mean cheap? These modern consoles and games cost a lot, and many gamers buy custom gamepad controllers so they're willing to spend money, just not money on accurate-to-the-originals controller for whatever reason. Wanting steering wheels and gas pedals for racing games is a no-brainer, who wouldn't want that? Same for flight yokes. If what you claim is true about them going to arcades for the exotic controls then classic arcade games would be more popular. No, they want easy games with few real challenges. They want to play for 20 minutes and just float around gaining points and "power-ups". Really. Based on what? You think nobody uses a mouse (upside down trak-ball) anymore? https://www.trackballmouse.org/trackball-mouse-aviation-military/ https://seatronx.com/products/trackballs/military-trackballs/ Lightguns are just as old and "obsolete" (worked off of CRT scan lines). Lightguns would make games even easier, what is this obsession with not having to try hard to beat a game? Do modern gamers not like hard challenges? The trak-ball is what makes Missile Command and Centipede (and Quantum) the games that they are, unique exotic controls that are way better than joysticks or lightguns. Are you saying you'd rather point a lightgun at an incoming missile and shoot it down that way? How is that like an arcade simulation of a missile battery control station (the arcade game concept)? Wasn't there a Lunar Lander: Beyond game? It was weak, but it was new and much expanded from the arcade original. I can see a ramped back version more aligned with the arcade original, flying around landing on things, using the thruster and rotation buttons for movement. Maybe it will never get made but I don't see why it couldn't work. But I see your point, younger gamers expect the games to be easy, even a Recharged Lunar Lander would probably be too much of challenge.

Ok, now you're describing a separate, different game. Which could/should be made, but it's not Asteroids, right? Asteroids "Recharged" better adhere closely to the original. Space Rocks or Belter can have whatever rules and controls you want, like the many Pac-Man inspired games changing what the mazes looked like or what bonuses were available. "Oooh, let's do an update/homage to this classic arcade game, but we'll change everything that made it unique!" No thanks. The home Recharged versions went way too far, I much more like the sound of these arcade specific versions already. Apparently the prototype cabinet is a hit? Buttons, my friend. Buttons. Odin, at least make some part of the game difficult. Why do modern gamers want everything to be easier? Where's the fun in that? "Aw, how come I can't get to a million points within the first minute of playing? I died? That's not cool!" "Younger people" can't be bothered to play video games at home with anything other than a gamepad, what are you talking about them preferring more exotic controls. Have you not seen those bars that have the 60-in-1 type arcade cabinets? Joysticks with like 4 buttons, that's it. You throw something exotic or specific at them, you get blank stares. Don't worry, the trak-ball Missile Command will be more than enough for the yout's. The Lunar Lander thruster will positively baffle their gamepad-centric minds. A Recharged Defender (if that's in the future) control panel would terrify them.

Not a bad idea. Maybe make special super-size ones for bigger arcades? 3-4 player? But make it a bigger playfield, meaning the resolution is the same as the regular recharged game (the ships and asteroids are the same size as the regular Recharged game), just the area is bigger. Many more asteroids, more space to move around in. More saucers, too.