Dastari Creel

I know of Atari User and Retro Gaming Times Monthly. Are there any other magazines (either paid or free) that follow the classic Atari consoles as either their main focus or part of their content? Is anything else out there? Please let me know.

I hate to put in a shameless plug but if anyone is interested, I did a series of 3 podcasts regarding some classic 8-bit games that my friends and I played back in the day. Its kind of an irreverant group and my friend Shaun's podcasts are not gamer oriented. He just does whatever topic comes into his head but if you're interested go here: Pixel Hindsights

Some of you may remember me jumping on the boards about a year ago and hanging out for a few months making comments and asking questions. Since then I've been reading video game histories such as From Pong to Pokemon: The Complete History of Video Games and Phoenix: The Fall and Rise of Video Games. I've also been procuring various books of game reviews, Ben Heck's Guide, Racing the Beam. My intention as before is to enjoy the 2600 as I did in the old days but also to gain a greater appreciation for it from both a hardware and software perspective. Ultimately I'd like to learn how to enhance its capabilities and utility and release at least one new game for it (I already have the nugget of an idea for something that I think is possible for the 2600's capabilities but I do not believe has ever been done on it). However, I do have some questions, each related to some of the projects that I have in mind or just to enhancing my enjoyment of the system overall: 1.) I actually had no idea that there were different kinds of 2600's. When I was a kid before the NES came out I never even heard of the systems that I've since read about (Colecovision, Intellivision, Bally Arcade). At least everyone that I knew only had the 2600 although I at least knew of the existance of the 5200 even though I'd never actually seen one. But it seems to me that everyone I knew had the six-switch version. Now its possible that some people had the 2600A and I just never noticed that it had less switches, all the ones I ever saw were definitely the kind with the wood finish and none of the other models that I've seen on the Atariage website. All that being said, I want to recapture my original experience of owning the system so I definitely want to get the six-switch version. I have no clue if my parents got the original version from Sunnyvale (this is entirely possibly as our family lived in California from 77-80) or the later version but I at least want a six-switcher even if I don't end up getting the one that I had as a child. Just to make sure that I'm clear on this when I hunt for a system, the "heavy sixer" is the original Sunnyvale version and the "light sixer" is the one that was made overseas. Is that correct? 2.) I am interested in the various modifications that I've learned about for the Atari. I know that a pause kit is sold from the Atariage store. I have also heard of a modification that gives you component (not composite) output. However, the instructions that I found said that they were specifically for the 2600 Jr. Has anyone made the mod for a six-switcher and if so, does anyone know where I can find these instructions? 3.) Aside from the pause kit and component output mods, are there any other well-known mods for the 2600? I'm going to exclude the Ben Heck portable method although I realize this exists as well and I am interested in it and Longhorn engineer's project to create a 2600 board for "do it yourselfers". I just want to know if anything else has been done with the machine and has been reported on. On the 2600 thread someone linked me to a site where this information was being collected but the site consisted of a few pictures and notifications like "so-and-so's mod" with no details of what that mod entailed technically. When I clicked on the links all but one were broken so I'm non the wiser. Any information on these mods would be appreciated. 4.) Has anyone ever created something like the Supercharger but using modern media like a CD instead of a tape? 5.) I know about the USB converters, Harmony, Vox, Supercharger, and Gameline (modem) for the 2600 but has anyone ever produced any other 2600 related accessory that enhances the capabilities of the system like these do? 6.) Are the physical dimensions of the Atari 2600 cartridges (not 3rd party) both inside and out available somewhere? I know we have some official schematic drawings of the 2600 on the website and it would be nice if Atari's official cartridge drawings were available as well. Any answers or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I'll be doing Vox2 from this point on. Expect it to be in full swing by next year. I've got another large project on the table yet, and it needs to be completed before I add this to my projects. I will try to have enough for the Blue 21 release this year however. Thanks, AX What kind of improvements will be available with the Vox2? Will it be inserted via the catridge port instead of the 2nd controller port to allow 2-player and Vox capabilities? Even if it isn't planned could this be done or would that make it non-backwards compatible with existing Vox games? Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many of the first Vox were sold?

No it's not. Rom Hunter, you are awesome. I'm looking through your list now and this certainly helps for thoroughness. Thanks! Thanks for the link but while there are some neat pictures here, the links to the more detailed information seems to be broken on most of them...many of them don't give a lot of information on what they are either, just "so-and-so's mod". I guess the next step if more information isn't available from another poster is to check on the hardware forums. "No" as in no one knows when a new VOX will be available or "no" that it would be impossible to create something like the VOX that works off the cartridge port? While I understand your thinking that creating hardware that expands the capabilities of the system means that any game developed for that hardware would not have as much utility, I don't think invalidates it. After all, even the regular VOX is something where people have to code special hardware and there are a ton of games at the Atari store that have utilized it. I just think that if it were possible to do this through the cartridge port instead then even more games could be developed that would allow the 2nd player port to remain free. Yeah unfortunately I need precise dimensions of every detail so I'd need whatever drawings they used to manufacture these from. Besides even the outside isn't completely smooth and I'd need those details as well. I'll keep looking. I seem to recall an old thread from last year where someone mentioned that someone on this forum has complete drawings for the Atari cartridges. I'm not necessarily looking at making a ton of money. I would need to break even on materials though. Time I can give for free as a labor of love. :-) I do appreciate the reference to wikipedia but it is not really a trustworthy source which is why I prefer looking at websites totally dedicated to Atari and with people who at least like to get respect from the Atari community at large who would therefore keep their information accurate. When you say "we have some" do you mean that there is a list somewhere on this website of homebrews or do you just mean the ones you can buy on a cart at the store? I realize there's no offical status but it would be interesting if someone tried to track homebrews. Thanks for all your help and I appreciate anything else anyone can tell me.

I posted this in a couple of forums and the mods seem to have combined my posts which erased the original text in this forum. Since this was Classic Gaming General I had put in a couple sentences about also wanting to get out and meet with people who have an interest in classic games and possibly find some new friends to play against. So anyone whose interested in any of that please let me know. My interests are in anything pre-1995.

Some of you may remember me jumping on the boards about a year ago and hanging out for a few months making comments and asking questions. Since then I've been reading video game histories such as From Pong to Pokemon: The Complete History of Video Games and Phoenix: The Fall and Rise of Video Games. I've also been procuring various books of game reviews, Ben Heck's Guide, Racing the Beam. My intention as before is to enjoy the 2600 as I did in the old days but also to gain a greater appreciation for it from both a hardware and software perspective. Ultimately I'd like to learn how to enhance its capabilities and utility and release at least one new game for it (I already have the nugget of an idea for something that I think is possible for the 2600's capabilities but I do not believe has ever been done on it). However, I do have some questions, each related to some of the projects that I have in mind or just to enhancing my enjoyment of the system overall: 1.) I actually had no idea that there were different kinds of 2600's. When I was a kid before the NES came out I never even heard of the systems that I've since read about (Colecovision, Intellivision, Bally Arcade). At least everyone that I knew only had the 2600 although I at least knew of the existance of the 5200 even though I'd never actually seen one. But it seems to me that everyone I knew had the six-switch version. Now its possible that some people had the 2600A and I just never noticed that it had less switches, all the ones I ever saw were definitely the kind with the wood finish and none of the other models that I've seen on the Atariage website. All that being said, I want to recapture my original experience of owning the system so I definitely want to get the six-switch version. I have no clue if my parents got the original version from Sunnyvale (this is entirely possibly as our family lived in California from 77-80) or the later version but I at least want a six-switcher even if I don't end up getting the one that I had as a child. Just to make sure that I'm clear on this when I hunt for a system, the "heavy sixer" is the original Sunnyvale version and the "light sixer" is the one that was made overseas. Is that correct? 2.) I am interested in the various modifications that I've learned about for the Atari. I know that a pause kit is sold from the Atariage store. I have also heard of a modification that gives you component output. However, the instructions that I found said that they were specifically for the 2600 Jr. Has anyone made the mod for a six-switcher and if so, does anyone know where I can find these instructions? 3.) Aside from the pause kit and component output mods, are there any other well-known mods for the 2600? I'm going to exclude the Ben Heck portable method although I realize this exists as well and I am interested in it and Longhorn engineer's project to create a 2600 board for "do it yourselfers". I just want to know if anything else has been done with the machine and has been reported on. 4.) I've read that the XE light gun can be used with 2 games for the 2600. One was released and the other is a prototype. Are either of these games worth playing? 5.) I've looked at the list of Atari accessories on this page. I've also gone to a lot of other Atari pages on the web and looked at the Atari accessories and there are a lot of omissions from what I read about in Phoenix: The Fall and Rise of Video Games. That book lists a Super Charger that allowed the Atari to play games loaded from cassette tapes. Did this really exist? There was also the PGP-1 which was like a Game Genie but for the 2600 and allowed you to hack games while you were playing them. Did this really exist? The final one is the CVC Gameline which was a modem that allowed you to download and play games over a modem. Did this exist? If they did, is the reason they are not listed on any Atari websites because these products were not made by Atari? 6.) If the devices mentioned above exist, are there any other non-Atari made products that aren't just new versions of things Atari made (like I know other companies made compatible joysticks) that gave enhanced capability to the 2600? I am interested in anything like that. 7.) Has anyone ever reproduced the functionality of the Supercharger, PGP-1, or Gameline with modern components? 8.) I am very interested in the Atari VOX. I note that it is out of production currently but a new one is being worked on. Are any details known of the new version such as when it will come out or what enhancements it will bring? Would it be possible to create something like the VOX that plugs into the cartridge port instead of the 2nd player port so that 2-player games and/or keypad games could be designed with enhanced sound? 9.) Are the physical dimensions of the Atari 2600 cartridges (not 3rd party) both inside and out available somewhere? I know we have some official schematic drawings of the 2600 on the website and it would be nice if Atari's official cartridge drawings were available as well. 10.) If I were to demonstrate the capability to create a new Atari product does anyone know of anywhere either on Atariage or another Atari related website where they could help me do a feasibility study/market analysis to see if the cost of production would be worth how much people would be willing to pay for it? 11.) I followed the thread about the number of original 2600 games. I know that the number was something like 418 original NTSC games, even though even that number is in dispute, but I could at least use it as a starting point for a collection. Does anyone have a list of PAL games that were never ported to NTSC? I would like to get to those eventually as well. Also is there a list anywhere that tries to be comprehensive and lists as many 2600 games as possible and preferably has notes if a game is really just a rebranding or slightly modified version of another game and such? Any information on such a list would be appreciated. 12.) I know this website tries to track hacks and that information is appreciated. However, has anyone tried to track 2600 homebrews and is there a list for these games? I realize that someone could create a homebrew that no one ever knew about but one presumes that if someone went through the trouble to create a homebrew, they would try to get word out. The Atariage store has a lot of them but I've also found other websites that have a few more and I presume that must be others that were never released on cartridge at all. Any information would be appreciated. 13.) Are there any 2600 games from post 1985 that someone would recommend as a "must play" game? 14.) I've heard that Warlords was fairly unique for its 4-player capability. What other Atari games allowed more than 2 players to play at once? Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

I'm relatively new to the area and while I've had ideas about modding retro consoles for a while I am just now getting my own home and a workshop so that I have the space to this as a hobby. Now the only other requirement is time. That one will remain tricky but I'd at least like to spend a few hours each week on the hobby. Is anyone in the same general area who'd be interested in meeting and possibly swapping ideas, knowledge, and possibly even playing against each other? Let me know.

I'm relatively new to the area and while I've had ideas about modding retro consoles for a while I am just now getting my own home and a workshop so that I have the space to this as a hobby. Now the only other requirement is time. That one will remain tricky but I'd at least like to spend a few hours each week on the hobby. Is anyone in the same general area who'd be interested in meeting and possibly swapping ideas, knowledge, and possibly even playing against each other? Let me know.

I'm moving soon and I'm finally going to get a workshop in the new house and I have some questions about mods as well as a general question. First off the general: 1.) I know that the FB has some alternate, unreleased, and new games on it. I also know that the FB2+ has more games on it than the FB2. Are any of the new games on the FB2+ that are not on the original FB2 alternate, unreleased, or new games. If they are just regular Atari releases then I can always buy them as carts but if there are some new games then it may be worth my while to purchase an FB2+. Now to modding type questions: 2.) I've seen a lot of tutorials written up about modding the FB2 for cartridges or for a built in harmony cartridge. Has anyone added a pause feature of S-video capability? I know those things have been done for the regular 2600 and I'm wondering if Curt made provision for those kinds of modifications on the new system as well. Any other known types of mods done to the FB2 yet? I saw a post where Curt suggested that there are modifications to the reset circuit possible. Has anyone done this? 3.) Is there any known mod that gives the FB2 with cartridge connector the capability of playing games which require extra RAM? I'm very interested to know what has been done with this thing by others before trying my hand at my own mods before moving on to real systems. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ok, I have a feeling that I'm missing something obvious but with all the talk of Rev A, B, C, etc, how do I know what rev I have? IIRC I purchased my Flashback 2 sometime around 2006 or 2007 but where do I find which Rev that I have and then how do I determine which of the links on the first post in this thread are using the same board...?

Curt My concern was not that it won't be sent. My concern is that it will be sent to my old address. I sent an e-mail to the contact listing at the Legacy Engineering website. I just want to make sure that when you do send my order that it will be sent to the right address.

Just to be clear, I am totally cool with the delay. Its just that I didn't anticipate it when I ordered the thing (since I even knew back in December that I'd be moving around this time of year) and therefore I'm a little worried that I'll miss out on it when it does ship. That is all.

I'm about to become a first-time homebuyer and one of the awesome things I am going to get with my new place is an area which I can turn into a workshop. I already have a multimeter but I figure that at a minimum I need a DC power supply, an oscilloscope, and a nice soldering station. Currently I have a piece of junk from radio shack but if I'm going to be doing a lot of board level soldering I'd like to at least have one that allows me to adjust the temperature and preferably a big station that has a desoldering iron with it as well. Does anyone know of anywhere to go and get that kind of stuff for a good deal?

I can't remember a time when I didn't have the 2600. I guess my experience differs from others on this thread in that I was at least always aware of it as the 2600 since I was born in 1980 and my earliest memories of the system are from 1983 or '84. I did move on to the NES in 1986 and I will say that at the time I definitely was impressed by the increased play control and graphics of the NES and the fact that the games had an ending. However, I still played the 2600 in parallel with the NES until my parents in their infinite wisdom decided to get rid of it when we moved (they sold the 2600 with 50 games for $50 when we moved. I still consider this remarkably nearsighted). Anyhow, in later years I have gone back to playing these games because they're incredibly fun. When people come over I play with them and the multiplayer Atari games (especially Warlords) are just a blast to play even in this day and age. I recommend trying some of the multi-player games with some friends who may not necessarily be gamers and find the fun of the experience. Someone else likened the experience to cards or a board game and I think there is something to some of these 2600 games that are like "party games" that are easy to play in a social setting rather than large time consuming things that pull the player OUT of the social setting like modern games. I'm not sure if that helps but I would be curious to read about your findings.

Yeah the problem with this is that I don't think that the post office forwards packages, only letter mail. Hopefully it'll be a moot issue and we get through to Curt but I'm moving May 3,4 so if it ships in May it really needs to go to my new address.

I'm getting a little concerned. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that it would be this late in the year without receiving mine and I'm about to move to a new house. I sent a message to Legacy Engineering telling them that I was moving and asking them to change the shipping address for my order but I received no reply. I really hope that I didn't just lose $100 because its going to ship to the old address... I take it from the comments here that the person running Legacy is named Curt...Curt if you're seeing this please confirm that you received my e-mail and will be able to ship to the new address. My sn here is the same as the beginning of my e-mail address that I used to order from Legacy engineering.

Last message I see on the website is an update on Feb 10th that states that the expansion modules should be shipping shortly. Nothing says that they ever shipped but the comments here seem to indicate that people are getting them. Since that's the case, I am very worried. I ordered mine back in December. Unfortunately I accidentally purged the confirmation e-mail. I did later get a followup e-mail giving an update on where Legacy Engineering sits with its orders around Christmas time but it doesn't have my order information. I can confirm that I was charged though. Is there any way to cross reference this back to my order and who can I contact?

Everyone, I just wanted to point all of you to my friend Shaun's podcast where we discuss the awesomest 8-bit and 16-bit games. Its a fun listen although I was sick when we recorded it. Give it a listen. http://shauncastic.com/

Mr Dabney, it is a pleasure and an honor to have you on this board. I just recently read From Pong to Pokemon: The Ultimate History of Video Games, so its really neat to me to have just learned about you and Nolan and for you both to now be on this board. Have you ever read any video game histories and if/so do you feel as if anything has been misrepresented or anything that you feel that you should "set straight" (not related to Nolan of course since I see that you're trying to work something out with him).

Ok so getting back to this. My wife is recovering so I can devote some time to thinking about my hobby again. I'd hoped for some people to comment on my sketches and see if they could deduce some of the functions I was thinking of adding that no portable VCS has had yet, but that's fine. Hopefully at some point there will be interest. For now I wanted to discuss my next topic, which is how to implement the design. My choices are using the original chipset, an ASIC, or an emulation machine. Original Chipset Advantages: 100% compatability. This is a big deal. While compatability with all existing carts is probably possible with any of the other methods it would probably take a lot of R&D and to hit that mark. With homebrews coming out too there might be need to revisit the design from time-to-time as well so having 100% compatability right off the bat is great. Disadvantages: Using the original chipset requires power conversion circuitry. Just look at any of the hacked portables and you see the heavy duty batteries they've had to install to run the things. I don't know about longevity but just the cost in size and weight makes this unattractive. The availability and cost of the chipset is another bad factor. There appear to be quite a few of these in circulation but they cost a pretty penny, meaning that this won't be a low-cost solution. Also, using three distinct chips is always going to be larger than using a single chip that combines all the functions. ASIC Advantages: Relatively high compatibility based on the fact that we have the design for the chips that went into the original VCS. My understanding is that this could be implemented relatively easily although the differences in packaging this all in one chip may still mean that some games do not run correctly. An additional advantage is that the ASIC can utilize smaller voltage levels so we can get away with a more traditional 4-AA approach rather than the huge batteries used on the hacked homebrews. This would also save on real-estate. Overall the footprint for this implementation should be very small, since its just one chip plus the additional circuitry needed to make it work. This means that it would be a smaller and lighter shell. Finally, an ASIC once designed could be made as often as wanted, so the cost would be fixed and I wouldn't have to worry about them running out. Disadvantages: I have absolutely no clue how to implement the ASIC design. While I believe that this is something that I could probably learn to do, the initial costs in making the chip sound like they'd be fairly hefty and there may need to be several iterations which would just increase the cost. While I'm sure the people on this board would love me for doing it, I'm not sure that I can afford it at least on my own. Emulation Advantages: Lower voltage levels again so no need for the bulky power circuitry. A microcontroller would be more compatible with modern equipment so there may be less need for additional hardware to make some of the functionality that I want to see implemented in my portable work. It would also be usable with modern televisions. R&D costs would be less than an ASIC. This is because you could just keep reprogramming the controller until it works the way that you want it to. These are readily available so they wouldn't suddenly become more rare and their cost spike. Disadvantages: Again I have no experience with emulators. This would probably be a much more difficult skill-set for me to acquire since its farther from my field of study. However it is a subject that interests me and learning this side of things would no doubt help me in understanding how the hardware works which may assist me in my eventual goal of creating homebrew games. Compatability is probably the lowest on an emulator and some games may be glitchy in ways they wouldn't be on the original VCS. The Stella programmer mentioned on another thread that a stripped-down version of Stella designed to run on dedicated hardware could be made and would be a much better emulator but the problem is the time factor. He was also confident that a 100% compatible emulator could be made but again time would be required which makes such a feat prohibitive. I'd need to start shopping around to see what the cost differences would be between a finished ASIC and a microcontroller. I figure the microcontroller would have a higher cost per unit but the ASIC has a higher R&D cost but then cheaper per unit once you have a design in place. Ultimately I think that any prototype will have to start with the original chipset since electronics are what I know best and what I would most quickly be able to make a prototype of. Once I have proof of concept I will probably want to revisit these options for making a lighter and more cost-effective design. Does anyone think that I've missed any advantages/disadvantages in my brief perusal of the issues above. I know the debate of ASIC vs emulation has been made before but what do people think of the advantages and disadvantages? I'm interested to hear what people think.

Yeah that sounds pretty good. I'm of the mentality that I want to be able to play my games regularly but have them completely "dust tight" in-between playing, so your method seems to work pretty well.

I'd definitely be interested in this. Can Curt share the mechanical drawings from those days of yore or would that be some form of violation with his company even though this is old and in their eyes obsolete technology.

Ultimately that was my point. Also I think that even though it appears that there is a high initial cost to reproducing Atari carts, it appears that its all in the one-time cost of creating the tooling and molds. Having the mechanical drawings of the carts available would also reduce time and expense since you don't have to constantly make a cart and test it and then adjust dimensions if it doesn't quite work. I want to reiterate what I've said elsewhere. There is a guy who makes NES carts here and he's able to sell them for $2 a pop. The thread that Mitch has linked us to has a guy saying that Atari carts could be done at $2 a pop. So yeah we'd have to pay $2 extra for a homebrew but I don't think that's really bad if it means that its all new material going into my cart. It seems that someone is already interested in selling these carts but even if he wasn't I think that the raffle idea is great. If all the members contributed just a few dollars you could easily raise the $5000 needed. I would certainly contribute a few bucks.

So, I take it from your reply that you were involved in the design of the Flashback 2 (sorry if this is general knowledge but I'm new to the board). I understand why having some dedicated games on a system would be great for people with Atari nostalgia but who didn't keep their system but do you know why nothing was ever done to create a true clone system with a cartridge connector? Obviously provision was made for this on the Flashback 2 but I wonder why a complete system was never designed.