DocEss

Uh huh. *clicks "Ignore User" button* Yeah, there is too much victim identification going on, even down to Underball's wording and ancillary off-axis comments, by some of, presumably, Underball's proponents and not enough examples of neutrality that you'd expect from a random critic. It feeds just too well into Underball's martyr complex. Though I guess we're only seeing the fringe, attracted by like sentiments. Most people, the 95% of those on the fence are patiently waiting for either the hardware or games and don't identify with these antics. Well, feel free to ignore me. Go right ahead. I'm not going to praise it just because I'm told to. I'll praise it if it's worthy of it. Putting in a lot of effort, or whatever else has been said, doesn't automatically make it above criticism. That's generally been my main problem. Too much arrogance, and too many people who seem to think they're above criticism, and that it's audacious to even dare to speak negatively of it.

I can see a horde of Apple fanboys at your front door. Oh, I've had my share of altercations with them. I'm not exactly what one would call an Apple fan. Very well. You made your point. You're not satisfied with the wealth of evidence that this product is not vaporware. Good for you. As for the rest of us, the Xm missed its release date. We get it. We know we'll have the XM before too long because we know Curt's longstanding reputation in this community and trust him. It's time to let this argument go. You're becoming a bit of a troll. I for one I'm about ready to use the ignore button. You're entitled to an opinion but this is getting tedious. No, it's more the arrogance and anger from certain people here. The prevailing attitude seems to be one of "How dare you not be in love with this item!", as if people are shocked that there are those of us here that aren't going to fall down and worship it without anyone having actually seen, used, or touched it. So you've paid for your XM since your post in this thread and have legitimate concerns or are you complaining because a developer won't sell you a game that's compatible with the system you currently have? No, I haven't purchased one, and have no plans to. Even if I had, at one point, had plans to, the attitudes surrounding it's more ardent supporters are enough to turn me off of it, not even counting the lack of any major visible software (Even Atari would make fake screenshots to hype something, if they didn't have legitimate ones. ) As far as the game goes, I have interest in Bob's work because I trust his dev skills, and his games have all been A+ in my book. So it's lamentable to miss out on one in favor of it being developed for something that may or may not even come out this year. I've pretty much said my piece here, and I'm sorry you seem to think that it's unreasonable of me to not praise it endlessly before it even really exists.

So lets get this straight :- Pictures of the XM as a concept model from Curt Vendel (who is financially backing the product to probably $10K+) - Not good enough? Pictures of the XM as pretty final plastics from Curt - Not good enough? Pictures of a prototype XM on the AA stand run by Albert (our congenial host) at CGE2010 - Not good enough? Updates about the XM progress at major milestones - Not good enough? Screenshots of upcoming games from a developer with a proven track record on the platform - Not good enough? 200+ people who have kindly made advance payments for the XM to happen - Not good enough? Plenty of support from long standing members of the AA community - Not good enough? Man this must be the most humongous April Fools AA has ever pulled then huh? Like 4 screenshots. Besides, all of that is meaningless without an actual product people can buy. I'll be glad to be less critical when it's more than preordering missed release dates. I'm sorry you think I should endlessly praise something that doesn't exist yet, but I can't do that. Praise comes when the product is in people's hands. Not before.

I'm sure my game's beta testers will be happy to know that what they are playing is both a figment of my imagination and theirs . As I've said before many times, games will be announced when developers are ready to and not before. Well, don't expect excitement over what is at this point, empty words with nothing tangible to back them. I'll care when there's more than words and excuses.

My thoughts exactly :- http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010960 http://spiceware.org/gallery/cge2010/P1010961 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ve4C1vvolps/TFdEV9lUrgI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/Te75dkKtg9A/s400/CGE2010+043.jpg Never mind the technical data files I have, the 1000s of lines of game code, emails, PMs etc., etc. A mockup isn't a real product. Nor are "lines of code" that have no, or very few, screenshots. When you have a tangible product, then you can trump about as though it's the best thing since sliced bread. Right now, all you have are words on a site, and numerous missed release dates, and no update for weeks. I'll be impressed when it actually exists. Don't expect me to be when it's just promises.

What actually would satisfy you? Something tells me, you'll keep calling this vapourware and keep implying that the creators are out to fleece people with a product that will never come out until you actually have one sitting in your hands. In which case, I guess you'll have to wait and order it once the first person reports that they have it. Seems like a lot of 'effort' to go to for vapourware - designing boxes, doing 3D modelling, programming games around it, creating an SDK, developing firmware, creating molds, ordering components, providing status updates as they come in etc. Anyone can 'shoop up an idea of what a box should look like, and shoop a few concept designs of what the finished product could look like. I could do that in the space of an afternoon. Outside of presenting an actual, real, finished product, this is essentially asking people to buy a promise, not a product. There hasn't even been an update as to why the latest release date was missed.

My account is just shy of a year old. People are allowed to have opinions you don't like.

Umm ... did you not look at the Status Page, the subject of this very thread? You can see pictures of it, you can see box artwork, you can see updates in the production cycle. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/expansion/ There's also plenty of threads talking about the hardware, discussions on games that support it, screenshots of games like Dungeon etc. Four screenshots of one game from months upon months ago does not sell me a product. The status page has shown me some mockup box artwork, (which is not an actual box), and some pictures which look very prototypical, and not at all a finished product. I've noticed an abject refusal to actually show more game information than those very few screenshots, and nothing really substantial. If people want to lessen the criticism and anger levered at the project, perhaps more than just "we're working on a game we can't show you" might help. Just sayin'. If someone wants money for a project like this, sell me a piece of hardware, sell me on it's capabilities, sell me on why I simply *must* have it. Don't sell me on a concept and lots of "trust me, it'll be awesome".

Umm ... the team working on this has been EXTREMELY open about what's happening, where the components are coming from, how the project has progressed etc. When you say "'continual promises with nothing delivered", it makes it sound like they have no integrity when they've been quite open throughout or that they're trying to rip people off.I don't think that's cool. Except extremely open about anything about it, really. We know there's this thing, and it'll make sweet love to our 7800's, only they can't show it to us, they can't show any of the things it can do, and they can't actually tell us when it's coming out. I know that sounds harsh, but, well, that's kind of what has happened so far. Lots of great sounding stuff, no actual product.

Movie critics don't have to be directors in order to criticize films. If you restrict the ability to be critical only to people who can replicate the product, you essentially say you refuse to be criticized. Not to split hairs, but as far as the XM, nothing has been physically produced, as far as I can tell. So being critical of it or praising it, is still at this point, praising/criticizing an idea. If people want others to be less critical of it, then the device needs to actually exist in people's hands so they can see if it lives up to all the high claims made of it. I, personally, would turn this comment around. For most people to feel that criticism is fair and objective (even if they may not agree with it), then the device needs to be in peoples hands. Until then, I think the criticism is really not founded on much. Kind of like fanboy conversations of which next-gen console is better, even while nothing has actually been released. Hah. those were always fun! I think a lot of the criticism is founded in missed dates, and continual promises with nothing delivered. It makes people who were once excited about a product rather antsy and intractable. So you reach a sort of point where it's a bit of an impasse. Critical because they don't have, but can't be critical unless they do have. At that point, you're sort of just stuck.

Movie critics don't have to be directors in order to criticize films. If you restrict the ability to be critical only to people who can replicate the product, you essentially say you refuse to be criticized. Not to split hairs, but as far as the XM, nothing has been physically produced, as far as I can tell. So being critical of it or praising it, is still at this point, praising/criticizing an idea. If people want others to be less critical of it, then the device needs to actually exist in people's hands so they can see if it lives up to all the high claims made of it.

Nope! You just won't have any sound effects or music . That's unfortunate. I can't justify buying something as intangible as the XM. I would have loved to contribute to Bob and this game, however. Perhaps another time. I do hope his rendition of Frenzy isn't XM-only as well.

Aha, I checked my collection, and my Realsports Baseball, in addition to having both labels flipped upside-down, does indeed have the black type of "Baseball".

So I suppose that means I'll miss out unless I get an XM?

Well, I never actually set out to collect the manuals, but noticed a lot of the games I was buying had them, so it's sort of a side project, not nearly as high priority to me as at least having one of every cartridge in the full catalog. Same goes with boxes. Many of my purchases came CIB (not NIB, as if I get a sealed game, I'll never open it, and never play it, which kind of defeats the purpose for me), and as time went on, I realized I had about 80% of the boxes for the 7800. Funny how it worked out without really intending to.

Yeah, I just, as of yet, am unwilling to plunk down 100-130 bucks for Tank Command via eBay, so I wait it out. I've acquired other expensive rarities for less than their expected value, so I hope to find TC for less than that sticker-shocking 100 bucks. I don't specifically seek out label variants, but over the course of collecting, I've ended up with some. I have the regular Tomcat and the error one. My Realsports Baseball, I can't actually recall which color the type is, I'd have to check. I just remember the labels are both flipped. Both end and front label are upside-down. That's more attributed to bad quality control on Atari's part than anything else, though. Sometimes I can acquire 2600 games in the wild, but really the only place is Play'n'Trade, which vastly, ridiculously overprices their "classic/retro" hardware and software. Though, in order to be fully satisfied with my library, I'll have to get all of Bob's 7800 homebrews that I don't yet have, such as Asteroids Deluxe, Space Duel, Space Invaders, and Failsafe. That's more of a personal preference, than a "complete NTSC" thing, though.

I'd gladly buy, (in whatever way it took to do so), a stand-alone version. There's been too little visibility to "sell" me on the XM unit as of yet, so I'd rather take the safer bet of a stand-alone copy of this. Even if I had to pay a bit extra for the donor cart, or mail you one myself (which, I happen to have an extra Ballblazer laying around). After buying your various Pac-family games, I know anything you make is gold.

I was generally implying NTSC library. So, since that was pretty much the only PAL-only, yet converted to NTSC, it sorta occupies an odd spot. Well if you got all 57 of them it should be a complete collection of the NTSC retails. I congratulate you and would like to se a picture as I am goin for that myself I could easily photograph 'em now, but I'm still nagged by that missing Tank Command. Still hunting about for a better deal on a loose cart than what eBay has up.

I could see the tag being removed from the actual chip's article, but taking it out of the "Emulation and Homebrew" section of the Atari 7800's main page is nonsensical. This is precisely the sort of thing that would fall under homebrew. Methinks someone who is unhappy with the XM's progress (or lack thereof) is making some edits, as the user history of the individual in question is ONLY removing those two bits.

Well, even just outside of basic things like type of game, I just noticed a large amount of variance between, well, "actual" rarity and "perceived" rarity when it comes to the 7800. Commando, for instance, while not incredibly common, is no Tank Command, yet commands prices as high as a copy of it.

For the purpose of the few lightgun games on 7800, which do you think would be the easier route to take? Attempt to get my hands on a (working) XG-1, or purchase a much-cheaper Sega Light Phaser and attempt to do the rewiring? I'd hopefully like to hear from both sides, that is, if people here have gone to the trouble of rewiring the Sega gun. It's not incredibly high priority on my list, because for the most part, the lightgun-only games on the 7800 are. . .less than stellar, but it's still something I'd like to eventually do, for the sake of completeness.

Not even just eBay, just sort of an overall of everywhere I've seen that sells the games these days. Mean 18 is, scale-wise, just as rare as Tank Command, but I've seen that for as low as 20 bucks, and I've seen less-rare games go for 50+. It's just odd to me. The 2600 seems to have a fairly solid baseline, regardless of where you look, but the 7800 just goes all over.

Seems very odd. I'm probably not the first person to mention/ask this, but is there some reason why it's so all-over the place? Games that aren't terribly rare on the system (at least as far as the scale here) can command hefty prices, and games that are much rarer, can be had for very low prices, and games that shouldn't be rare end up being harder to find than ones that actually ARE rare. Perhaps just due to some of the titles not being as well known? People not aware of what they have? Or just an overall lack of "Holy crap this is rare", like the 2600 had?

Let me just add, it's absolutely worth it. I'd also go for Jr. Pac-man, and Super, while you're at it. Fantastic, and very well done.

Ah, you got me there, but you know what I mean. You guys also got much better controllers, but I've nabbed a pair of those. Wouldn't Double Dragon without them.