DimensionX

The same is true of a lot of 8-bits - as you noted previously, the A8 changes it's colours depending on if it's CTIA- or GTIA-based (going NTSC to PAL or vice versa changes the palette as well and that's the same for all the Commodore machines if memory serves) and the Spectrum varies from model to model to the point where a minority of machines even differentiate between black and bright black - Spectrum colours also change intensity slightly depending on if they're used for set or unset pixels apparently, there's a CSSCGC entry from 2008 called Escape from Niburon Prime where the on-screen maze relies on that differentiation, rendering it invisible to all but one emulator or a real machine. I use both Spectaculator, ZXSpin and Specemu. Thanks for the link and some interesting info. I downloaded the zip file containing all crap games. Your Sinclair even held crap game competitions back in the good ol' speccy days with games such Lawnmover Simulator and Car Washing Sim. One thing, you must have "ULA Colour Ramping" enabled in SpecEmu, else you will not see the maze in Specemu either.

It reflects what most people in this thread said about the C64 palette yes, that it's got concessions because it was essentially built from a need to keep the silicon overheads down but is, in the long run and probably more through luck than judgement, very fit for the job in hand - after all, they wouldn't be spending all that effort analysing it or going as far as using variations for art on newer hardware if they didn't think so. They also talk about techniques such as dithering and using "pure grays [as a] bridge other hues" (which is something 8-bit artists do a lot of rather than using straight gradients and is evident in at least some of Mark Coleman's work) in a positive light and i can only think of one person in this thread who'd disagree with those points... Some interesting reading. I didn't even knew that it was different versions of the C64 palette.

Anyone who knows where to download something similar as RZX (action replay) files for Atari 800 or C64 emulators? http://www.rzxarchive.co.uk/

There was a very interesting thread on this subject at wayofthepixel.net http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4306.0 The c64 palette actually compares quite favourably. Bear in mind though that in that thread they're generally treating the palette as having completely free colour placement with no restrictions. When designing a palette with placement restrictions in mind, smooth ramps might be less of a priority. For use in games with c64-like restrictions, I feel that version 1 of the c64 palette was best, back when the colours were grouped into 3 different luminance ranges (5 if you include black and white) rather than the later 7 luminances (9 with b & w). With the old palette you basically had a range of dark colours, mid colours, and bright colours, which worked well for 3 colour sprites/tiles. However the newer palette is better for pictures - the extra luminance levels allowing for smoother gradations in tone. Thanks for a good link, that reminded me of what someone here said about C64's palette. Interesting reading.

Pokey archive is the right place for listening and to download pokey music. http://asma.atari.org/ Greyscales tunes sound very good.

Want to have it that way? Just bring it on. I will really enjoy this. You really are very stupid. Are you dizzy on Lemonade or something? correct my code PLEASE! show me you are not. Aaron And why can't you correct your code yourself?

How about you stick to the subject at hand. If you start reporting posts, they will be the LAST posts you report. I don't want to see any more of this stupidity, get back on topic NOW. ..Al It will be more simple that way, i admit. Do you think that i can get rid of lots of postings made just to provoke and annoy? Can you people in this thread simply start to behave acceptable too? And i certanly will start to behave well too. Okey?

Want to have it that way? Just bring it on. I will really enjoy this. More threats? You've already replied to his post once, now again with "Want to have it that way?" "Just bring it on." What exactly are you planning? I also notice you haven't fixed his bug To give back? To defend myself? If someone brings personal attacks, can i defend myself then and give back? There are ways to defend yourself if you think someone is getting personal, there's a button to report the post to the mods and if they find it to be offensive in ANY way to anyone or a blatant attack on you that poster will be thread banned. You do NOT promise retaliation. Okey, so i will report all postings that are made just to annoy? Oooh, it's going be many. I will start with northpoles posting. Thanks for telling me how to do.

Want to have it that way? Just bring it on. I will really enjoy this. More threats? You've already replied to his post once, now again with "Want to have it that way?" "Just bring it on." What exactly are you planning? I also notice you haven't fixed his bug To give back? To defend myself? If someone brings personal attacks, can i defend myself then and give back? And yes, i will.

Troll was quite appropriate. - "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." This is you - there's no ifs, ands or buts about it. As far as freak - the only person who's called somebody else a freak was you, you [PeteD] are a C64 freak who defends the machine to all costs. A couple of others have called themselves "retro freak" and "turrican freak", but that's it. No, they've been to correct your lack of knowledge, and yet you continue to blow it off and act like a troll. How about using you eyes and read the postings? The latest posting just to annoy was this one. http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/142211-commodore-64-vs-atari-800-xl/page__view__findpost__p__2009552

Like when you enter this thread? Nah, that's not what i call entertainment. More like a sleeping pill. Do you like burgers?

Want to have it that way? Just bring it on. I will really enjoy this.

That was a downright mean comment, and you know that so stop defending Remo. His other comment was not better then the first. Learn to read between the lines. No, i'm not the only one who should give an apologize here. And when you realize that, you will get a honest apologize. There's quite many postings in this thread just to annoy from just about all of you. And there's no mr tough guy. Just a guy who don't want to be attacked by people who just jumps in to annoy.

A big apologise to all people who felt offended by my postings. Even those who called med troll and a freak without even recived a comment from me. Those who just jumped in to cowardly post a provoking comment to someone they not even had recived a reply from. If that happends again, i certanly don't want to be you. @GroovyBee You expect me to be the only one here to give an apologize. That's not fair. Because most of you have been posting quite many comments in only one purpose, to annoy. And you're well aware of that...

Right, so we can assume that you're now going to apologise for calling us all wrong when in fact you were wrong because you didn''t understand. Off course, but only when i was wrong. I'm not the person to argue about things that you knows better, but i do have some knowledge about old computers in general, except programming. And much of my arguments was quite subjective, i admit. For exemple, i still think that A8's colours beat most things, but that's a subjective argument. At the same time some of you can give me an apologise for just jumping in with a quite mean comment. Like RemoWilliams and Northpole for exemple. Sure, you will get your apologise, will i get one too?

Yes i understand your point, and that's how it works in reality. Which is all anybody cares about... But that's the point everyone else keeps repeating, you can't seperate the A8 itself from the processor speed because the former governs the latter. Remove it from the A8 and plonk it into another machine and the clock speed will be whatever the new environment tells it to be. They're not directly compatible in the real world so swapping the processor from an A8 into a C64 wouldn't work but if it could be done the 6502 would simply crank down to 0.985MHz because the C64 hardware would be telling it to. Only if it's attached to a well-designed video system as well. A fast processor with a crap display format is going to lag behind a slower one with a good format. And no, i'm not talking A8 vs C64 here (because the A8 is better served on that front, the C64's bitmap format is a clever fudge but harder to work with for it) the two machines that spring to mind as a prime example are the Amstrad CPC (with a 4MHz Z80a) and Spectrum (using a 3.5MHz Z80a) where the latter can be significantly quicker in practise because it only has to juggle half the memory each refresh. Thanks for explaining TMR. To be honest i have learned plenty of new stuff that i didn't knew before.

Perhaps because it's similar to one of my smaller problems? I'm trying to work out if quantum fluctuation is a result of movement of energy between two non linear dimensions. You would certanly like my theory about time and reality. Btw, by looking at your code, how are your games look? I think that your code should be suitable for a wordcross perhaps.

Pete, i begin to get a bit groggy typing everything in english, spelling errors are becoming more and more common, i have to edit a posting about 5 times right now. I'll better log out for today. Ha en trevlig kväll.

IF I have reason to change my mind because someone has given me facts on a subject that they can back up with proof I will happily do so and thank whoever corrected me/gave me new info. If it's subjective like most of the stuff in this thread has been I'll change my mind if someone shows me something better than I thought was possible. I'm not changing my mind to get out of arguments or peer pressure then changing it back again the next day. I totally disagree with listening to 5 out of 38,000+ to make a decision though. I did that on A8 before I got into the scene and thought POKEY was worse than just about every chip around but wouldn't actually say that to anyone because I knew I'd probably barely scratched the surface. You can go back to the early SID days, listen to 5 tunes from then and get basic waveforms probably using basic sound statements, go forewards a couple of years to Rob Hubbard who had amazing instruments eg great drums, violin etc. Forward more to the start of samples as a 4th voice, newer more advanced players, right up to today when you can basically make a SID sound like an Amiga MOD player. You're not fitting all of that history and enhancement in 5 songs. I'd suggest a top 100 at least for a good cross section of SID and no doubt the same is true of POKEY. I'm talking of to not use any samples but the pure sid sound. You can use samples on Pokey too. Often those tunes are a bit bigger in size. That's ok too, you're still not going to get a good cross section in 5 songs. Probably 1-2% of SID tunes use samples, the "sounds like a mod" thing does but not in the normal C64 way but ignore that too. You've still got huge advances over time in "instruments" people were able to make in the players, just like there's been in POKEY over the years. Like I say, I never expressed an opinion on POKEY to anyone until I had listened to what other people told me were the best examples and it was a lot more than 5. I'm sure of that any musician on both Sid and Pokey need lots of skill because some tunes sounds really awful on both chips while others sounds amazingly good. And i'm not talking about the music but the sounds. One sid tune sounds real bad while next sounds surprisingly good. So it must be a lot of skill to get everything right. My favourite chip musician besides Whittaker and Hubbard is probably Matt Furniss.

IF I have reason to change my mind because someone has given me facts on a subject that they can back up with proof I will happily do so and thank whoever corrected me/gave me new info. If it's subjective like most of the stuff in this thread has been I'll change my mind if someone shows me something better than I thought was possible. I'm not changing my mind to get out of arguments or peer pressure then changing it back again the next day. I totally disagree with listening to 5 out of 38,000+ to make a decision though. I did that on A8 before I got into the scene and thought POKEY was worse than just about every chip around but wouldn't actually say that to anyone because I knew I'd probably barely scratched the surface. You can go back to the early SID days, listen to 5 tunes from then and get basic waveforms probably using basic sound statements, go forewards a couple of years to Rob Hubbard who had amazing instruments eg great drums, violin etc. Forward more to the start of samples as a 4th voice, newer more advanced players, right up to today when you can basically make a SID sound like an Amiga MOD player. You're not fitting all of that history and enhancement in 5 songs. I'd suggest a top 100 at least for a good cross section of SID and no doubt the same is true of POKEY. I'm talking of to not use any samples but the pure sid sound. You can use samples on Pokey too. Often those tunes are a bit bigger in size. I have lots of .sid that uses one or more sampled sounds.

No, the A8 clocks the CPU faster and that's very different - if you're talking about 1.77MHz you're already talking about a processor and a machine wrapped around it at that point and that means there are other things that have to be considered. Correction? 1.78 Mhz Pal and 1.79 Mhz NTSC? Or it is 1.77 Mhz but Wiki and several other sites says 1.78 Mhz for Pal. But that's nitpicking from my side, isn't it?

No, the A8 clocks the CPU faster and that's very different - if you're talking about 1.77MHz you're already talking about a processor and a machine wrapped around it at that point and that means there are other things that have to be considered. Yes i understand your point, and that's how it works in reality. But still, the main processor, and the mainprocessor only in A8 is faster clocked. That was all i meant at that time when i posted that. How fast A8 is, i don't know. But i do know one thing. A fast main processor is a good thing to have when making vektor graphics.

Where the hell do you read this stuff? That's NOTHING like what was said. You said To which I replied, then you said Unless there's something somewhere I'm missing and don't remember posting NOWHERE do I say "SID can produce any sound". Find where I say EXACTLY that or you're lying AGAIN. From those quotes YOU proclaim no chip can do all sounds and now somehow without actually saying so I've said you're wrong and that SID can?! It's enough to listen to 5 tunes even if i have listen to thousands. Sid has a certain type of sound and it will always sound "SID". SID is best at fat bassy sounds even if you can use Sid for other sounds as well. Judging by my response you must have said something, but i can also be wrong and missunderstood your posting. See? I'm not afraid at all to change my mind if i'm wrong. And i hope that you can do the same? I'm always honest and link to the postings so people can judge by themselves.