Tubular Gearhead

I disagree. If you use up your MARIA bandwidth you'll see flickering. By that I mean sprites will no longer be drawn. If you get to that point in development you have to redesign the game. Understood. Of all people you would know... I kind of meant this as a tongue-in-cheek friendly poke in the side to the NES fans anyway. I just don't like seeing the underdog take so many punches without throwing one out as well. As this discussion is getting more "splitting hairs" technical I will try to keep my comments back to opinions and observations and leave the in-depth technical stuff to the experts... That said, the 7800 is still better. This thread is sort of similar to Honda fans commenting on a Harley Davidson (or Ducati, or pick your brand...) website and piling on the evidence of how the Honda is technically "superior" to the Harley. It may be true, but in the end it isn't a Harley so it really doesn't matter. BTW- I have owned several Hondas (still do) and I am also a big Harley fan- they are both good machines.

I did this modification way back in 1983- I used an atari 1200 keyboard (bought @ flea market) and velcroed it where the old membrane keyboard was. Electrically, yes, the number of pins is the same on several of the Atari 8-bit keyboards, although the actual connector may be different. It seems like I had to change the end on the 1200 keyboard to plug it into the edge connector for the old membrane one. It wasn't too hard... Replacement 800 keyboards pop up all the time for around $20 I believe. Seems like a good way to go.

BTW- HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, to get back on track, this topic is "7800 vs. NES" so flicker is never an issue, at least not for the 7800... Once again, a great game that benefits from expanded ram and extra processors on the cartridge. Quite impressive, really it is, but we have nothing to compare it to in the 7800 library. Throw those same chips on a 7800 cartridge- and the Atari would have no problem impressing lots of people as well. Who knows, maybe we'll see some good stuff on the horizon with the 7800XM. Atari Fanboy? Never really thought about it, but I guess I am guilty...

Yeah, maybe it is time I gave the NES a third or fourth chance. It is just a lot of "first impression" I have to overlook. I am sure there are some good games I am missing out on, but I just have a hard time getting past all the "most popular" ones that have been mentioned that I dislike so much. Like I said, when I think "Nintendo" I immediately think of SMB, funky Japanese graphics, kid themes, funky sprites with weird halos around them that look like they were pasted onto a tiled background, etc, etc. Right or wrong... Halos??? Wow, you have more patience than I have @ the keyboard. Anyway, good discussion- but I guess it is just a matter of taste. Growing up in a heavily Atari influenced era (not just VCS, but 400/800, 5200, etc.), I noticed a distinct difference in the look and feel of the games post Nintendo, and as I said, I don't care for it. The younger generation would not necessarily feel this way as they grew up with the Nintendo graphics. I feel the same way about today's cartoons compared to the Merry Melodies and Looney Toons of the past. Back to games, it was/is an artistic change of culture compared to the way the games began and the way they were going in America and Europe. I prefer any Ultima over Zelda, I just wish the old ones were bigger with better graphics . As far as halos, that is probably not the best description... but this is kind of what I mean as far as the characters looking like they are moving in a plane right above a tiled background and are not cohesive with it- maybe it is also just the poor color choice.

Yeah, maybe it is time I gave the NES a third or fourth chance. It is just a lot of "first impression" I have to overlook. I am sure there are some good games I am missing out on, but I just have a hard time getting past all the "most popular" ones that have been mentioned that I dislike so much. Like I said, when I think "Nintendo" I immediately think of SMB, funky Japanese graphics, kid themes, funky sprites with weird halos around them that look like they were pasted onto a tiled background, etc, etc. Right or wrong...

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet? I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all. You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me... Works for me. I could spend hours with River City Ransom's "too-big eyes" and you guys can have all those awesome 7800 beat'em ups. To explain it further- I like the variety and type of games in the Nintendo library, and lament the fact that the 7800 didn't get as many elaborate games as Nintendo, I just hate the LOOK and FEEL of the execution of the games on Nintendo. I don't want to just play "space shooters and racing games". I want to play the same games as the NES had on the 7800- WITHOUT all the " Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music". I wish development would have happened on the 7800 to give us a Zelda sized "Adventure 7800" with real dragons and a medieval theme- no ducks, mushrooms, Yoshis, plumbers, flowers, etc.... Oh well, no sense looking up a dead horse's arse. But hey, there is hope with the 7800XM right?

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet? I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all. You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me...

Ridiculous auction. Deals like this don't work. Feedback score ZERO- 'nuff said...

Sad but true...

Well, I don't consider it "odd taste", but I have definitely had little experience with Nintendo because whatever you call it- I can look at almost any Nintendo game and tell it is being played on Nintendo- and it holds no interest to me. There are some 3rd party exceptions, but overall here's what I mean, IMHO: If you consider two of the (arguably) top Nintendo franchises- Mario and Zelda- the characters, sprites, enemies, layouts, etc. are way too kid oriented. To me "adventure game" means the feel of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - artwork and themes in that vein, not goofy, squashed children's book characters. Gannon?- please... give me a break. I mean, it seems that the adventure (and other) games that came after the NES all tried to be LIKE the NES, and I just don't like that Japanese animation (large eyes, goofy kid charaters, etc., etc.) graphics. Maybe it is just odd bias, or just plain odd taste...

This x 1,000. NES games, in every aspect - music, graphics, characters, game plots - always came off as twee, and kidsy crap. (except for the occasional Arcade port) I mean they all felt like Sesame Street aged kids stuff. Games for 5 year olds. Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music. Something my sister should be playing with. Everything looked all Hello Kitty compared to the space ships, shooters, and racing games of Atari. +1 Thank you. Not to anger anyone, but I have always felt this way and was never "on board" for the whole NES bandwagon in 1985+. I have always felt that the games are so different than the "American" (if you will) culture and feel of the Atari games. Nintendo is STILL this way- cutsie. Obviously some people like it... I think the video game scene really lost something when it all went to Nintendo. I know everyone credits them with "revitalizing" it- but no, they ruined it for the games I like.

This guy should at least get a honorable mention in the Darwin Awards this year.

I wont have to send it back right? Because I want to keep it regardless of the box! Probably not. Just describe the situation to Ebay exactly as you did here. You will at least get a partial refund.

I had the same thing happen to me quite some time ago. Don't waste anymore of your time with this retard. File a claim with Ebay for damaged items, which this clearly is, and get your money back. Follow it up with bad feedback so they get the message. Sounds harsh, however, the seller is not showing you any kindness either...

Looks like ColecoVision.

PM sent!

Probably about $75 I would say, although I've seen them sell for less. It's definitely undervalued. (Atari2600.com has it priced at ~$50.) It's kind of hard to tell, since most of the copies that pop up for sale are CIB. Loose cartridges are few and far between. $75 is definitely just a few PayPal keystrokes away- if there are any takers.....

Besides maybe Alcazar (which was around just not released), isn't everything in the above list already before 1984?

Bump'n it up.... C'mon guys, there has to be a way to pry this away from one of you. For the sake of completeness, my Tigervision collection asks you from the bottom of it's heart....

41. I grew up in the Bay Area, San Jose CA. I got my first Atari 400 in 1982, and by the time I was done with it I had installed a full-stroke keyboard and a 64k Mosaic ram board. My father knew someone from work that traded me an Atari 800 fully decked out with an ATR8000 CPM 64k expansion and two external drives (not quite sure why he went for the trade ). Unfortunately, I sold most of my Atari stuff when I was in high school and had to build up my collection much later. Wish I had kept some of that stuff... On a side note, one of my best memories was a school field trip to the Atari headquarters in 1982 where they gave us a tour of the whole facility. At the end, they let our whole class spend an hour in the arcade they had on site and I remember playing games I had not seen yet in the arcades in the local mall.

I would respectfully disagree. Such a chart is not the end of the discussion. Far from it. And it isn't meant to boil the respective consoles down to "A is better than B". However, there are certain factual specifications that in reality cannot be disputed. Console A has X amount of RAM. Console B has Y amount of RAM. Console A utilizes XXXX CPU. Console B utilizes YYYY CPU. Such things are indisputable, regardless of how such resources are used. Yes, the end result is more than the sum of it's parts. The interactions of those parts and how they were designed to be utilized and what graphics they end up producing, etc., etc. cannot be boiled down to a spec chart. However, such a chart serves as a great foundation on which to build such discussions. Also, please keep in mind what I felt was one of the 3 main drivers of such a document: to educate new entrants into the community. Individuals that may not even know what processor an NES utilizes and what processor an Atari 7800 utilizes. Regardless, I have some great starting points now with some print resources I can attribute as sources as well as the Wiki chart (which by the way, Lendorien is leading a charge to update the Atari 7800 Wiki page....help out where you can!) However any information that the community can provide would be greatly appreciated! I think this would be a worthwhile effort, as long as there was a BIG disclaimer included for the benefit of newbees that said something explaining that the specifications are not necessarily indicative of the comparitive powers of each machine. For example, and I think this is the point gdement was making, someone might compare the clock speeds of the Z80 and the 6502 and conclude that the Z80 was faster and more powerful, which is not the case when you understand how the two address ram.

I like all the creative homebrew labels in the AtariAge store. Very colorful and artistic. I just wish I had more money to buy some of them....

Thats a great deal! I just recently got into the Channel F- it sure is funky, but there is something really retro-cool about playing Alien Invasion on it... BTW I think threads like this are great. I know my wife just shakes her head at my game collecting, but it is nice to be able to share the excitement of these great finds with people who understand.

This is very true. My problem was I thought about making my own for years and never got around to it- too busy doing other things. But 30 PayPal dollars later and voila- fits perfect.