x=usr(1536)

March 23

First and foremost: this is not a feature request. Featureset identification and feasibility discussion, definitely, but *not* a feature request.

I've been kicking around the idea of a Directory Service for #FujiNet users. The basic idea is that it would allow anyone with a #FujiNet to easily find publicly-accessible #FujiNet servers, as well as providing a way for people looking to run those servers an easy way to publish them as being available.

This would be a very lightweight protocol, with some similarities to DNS such as root servers containing a central list of server ip addresses and hostnames. However, I can also see this including extended records (not totally dissimilar to a DNS TXT record) for each entry that describe things like the system type (physical, emulated via SIO2PC, Linux / Windows daemon, etc.), physical location (either using ccTLDs or FidoNET-style unique identifiers), and other info that may be worth providing (like a 40-character-or-less description of what the server offers).

Obviously, this would mean having to support the protocol on the #FujiNet side. Implementing certificates may also be necessary if secure updates of hostnames, etc. on the root servers are considered necessary (which, IMHO, they should be), as well as UI changes to allow for configuring data sent to the root servers.

Again, just kicking the idea around for now. Perhaps a P2P version of this may be less work, as an existing protocol (BitTorrent?) could be used or adapted as needed.

March 23

3 hours ago, AlecRob said:

I wish Atariage would embrace the VCS.

The fact that that hasn't happened in the last 3-plus years should speak volumes regarding how this device is viewed by the part of the world that didn't put their money into the Indiegogo campaign.

March 23

8 hours ago, Keatah said:

BTW, anyone notice a lack of 16 bit machines in schools? Oh there may have been a MAC or two here and there. But the Amiga and Atari ST were mostly absent. To me it's always been TRS-80, C=, Apple, and then PC.

My school was a bit odd in that regard: in my last year there, the Apple ][+ clones in the computer lab were replaced with... Atari STs. Almost entirely 1040STFMs, IIRC, though I think there may have been one 520 in there somewhere. There was also a lone //c in one of the other classrooms that turned into a Mega ST. We're talking about maybe a dozen machines in total, so it's not like our 100% adoption of Atari STs made any sort of impact on the world of educational computing.

Of course, the only reason why this happened in the first place was that the head of the maths department had free rein to select the computers, and he used an ST at home :-D

March 23

1 hour ago, mozzwald said:

Nope, not possible. Besides, you can just watch the debug output in the flash tool. It tells you if it fails or shows you the FujiNet boot messages if success. It even shows progress while flashing

Fair enough. The use case I was seeing for this was as a telltale on the hardware for what the flash tool was doing, but if it's not doable then it's a moot point :-D

March 23

Coming back to the joystick ports for a moment: ran Florian Dingler's perhipheral tester via the .ATR image on Mr. Robot's TNFS server against joysticks, the KoalaPad, and CX22 Trak-Ball. More on that below.

12 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

The triggers on the controller ports are read by the GTIA chip, but the directional signals are read by PIA and paddle lines by POKEY.

FWIW, the pins on the controller ports were filed with a moderately-fine emery board, hit with contact cleaner, filed again, given another dose of contact cleaner, then blown out with compressed air before starting tonight's round of testing.

Triggers on all three controllers work fine. Using the KoalaPad as a paddle substitute, it reads fine on both paddles; the resolution is off compared to a paddle, but that's expected behaviour. Tested specifically as a KoalaPad, it's fine in both axes. The CX22 only registers movement in the Y-axis in Trak-Ball mode, however, and in joystick mode it replicates the results of the joystick test performed with actual joysticks. All controllers work without issue on the 800XL, so this is looking like a 1200-centric issue.

Findings are consistent across both ports, with the wild card being the CX22 - the Trak-Ball test only works on port 1. No idea how it may have behaved on port 2 as a result, but I wouldn't expect any real difference given how the others behaved.

12 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

It’s finicky work, but you could slide a jumper wire with a female Dupont connector onto each pin and then verify continuity to the corresponding solder pad under the controller jack if you want to be 100% sure the pins are clean enough.

Yep, that'll be the next port of call. I'm suspecting that your earlier hunch re: a bad PIA also being in the mix may have been correct. Will definitely nose around between there and the controller ports next time I open this machine up, which will likely be later this week.

March 23

Curious about the feasibility of #FujiNet doing the following when performing a firmware update:

Blink the orange LED for erasing
Blink the blue LED for writing
White LED on solid for success
Orange LED on solid for failure

The idea is that it would give a quick visual indicator that the #FujiNet was receiving commands from the update host.

Is this something that might be workable?

March 22

2 hours ago, kheller2 said:

If you have a BASIC cart, there are a few programs floating around that will test the values being return from the joystick direction and another for paddles.

Pretty sure I could quickly knock something together from memory in BASIC. Unfortunately, Rev. C is currently in the mail :-D

The peripheral tests that can be pulled via the FujiNet work well enough, though. The advantage is that they'll also let me easily test edge-case stuff hanging off of the joystick ports, like lightpens, the CX85, ST mice, etc. It's arguably overkill, but if the weird end of the spectrum is working as well as the more orthodox end, it's a more thorough indicator of port health.

March 22

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Don't have any paddles at the moment, but I do have a KoalaPad that can stand in. It won't test that both paddles on a port are functional, but it should at least be good enough to get an idea as to whether or not they're at least readable

Self-correction: the KoalaPad uses one paddle for X positioning and one for Y, so it should test both on a single port.

The proper order of operations in the morning is caffeine, then post.

March 22

30 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

The triggers on the controller ports are read by the GTIA chip, but the directional signals are read by PIA and paddle lines by POKEY. If it were me, I’d a common game like Pac-Man or Dig Dug and set up a two player game to methodically check all four directions on both ports. Then I’d setup a 4-player game of Breakout or Super Breakout so you can test both paddle lines on each port. In fact, since you know the trigger lines work, maybe check paddles next. If those work, then your issue is probably the PIA chip.

Good call, and will do. Don't have any paddles at the moment, but I do have a KoalaPad that can stand in. It won't test that both paddles on a port are functional, but it should at least be good enough to get an idea as to whether or not they're at least readable.

30 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Of course, clean the contacts of the port (Deoxit or any electrical cleaner should do) and reflow the connector pins if necessary.

Yep, hit the pins with contact cleaner but the oxidation remained. The pins seem to be slightly oversized due to the crud on them, which makes me wonder if there wasn't a liquid spill (probably soda) that hit them at some point in their life which wasn't properly cleaned up. The interior is really clean, though, so I'm not 100% certain of that theory.

March 22

Just to close this one out: after finding a number of semi-seated ICs in my 1200, every one of them was pulled and cleaned with contact cleaner (ditto the sockets) before being firmly reinstalled.

The machine now boots the #FujiNet. As a bonus, it also now loads from other SIO devices, too, which is nice.

Excuse to buy #FujiNet number two has now been found :-D

March 22

Just to follow up: had some unexpected free time today, so pulled the RF shield and poked around. About half of the ICs were semi-seated at best, so ended up pulling all of them, giving the sockets a good blast with contact cleaner, and wiping the legs on the ICs with the same stuff. So far, the 1200 has now booted from a 1010, 1050, FujiNet, and has also loaded ModemLink from a 1030.

Joysticks are still in the same boat - fire button only. Having said that, I did notice some oxidation on the pins of both connectors, so will take care of those with some fine-grit sandpaper. And, with the FujiNet now working on this machine, I have access to better diagnostic tools that don't require external media to run, so should be able to troubleshoot it more effectively if the need should arise.

Calling it pretty much fixed for now. Absolutely thrilled to have a working 1200XL at last :-D

March 22

3 hours ago, YSG2020 said:

Respect and professional courtesy with ethical fair business treatment for all customers was the reason for my complaint in the first place. Seems like a good deal of people here would rather bash me for complaining about incredibly bad service and business practices, just so they can continue to order. Sad.

Quoted for posterity.

March 21

And next year we'll be able to celebrate 40 years of flogging this horse! Yay!

March 21

18 hours ago, Saldo said:

If it shows up there I’d buy it for $50. But here’s the thing, the only way it shows up in places like Big lots is it is liquidated by other retailers. For that to happen other retailers have to have had it on their shelves. The only units that have been produced are Indigogo backers and Walmart and GameStop preorders. Has their been any sign that retailers have ordered any units for their stores?

Searching Wal-Mart's website for 'Atari VCS', I get a total of 32 results. None of them are for the unit we're talking about here.

GameStop is still showing preorders starting on April 30th for either of the controllers, a base system, and one bundled with controllers.

With GameStop being the Radio Shack of the 2020s, this doesn't bode well for its chances of success in the wider marketplace. They're dead and just don't know it yet, and apparently no longer being available from America's largest retailer is not a good sign either.

I'll be very surprised if production has been ramping up since Christmas to meet the ~~massive~~ ~~retail demand~~ production quantities needed to be carried by a major retailer, even one as near death as GameStop. That requires a revenue stream, which is basically nonexistent for Fauxtari at this point. Banks and/or investors aren't going to throw money at them unless there's at least some guarantee of a return, and it's difficult to see any of their production facilities extending credit to them in order to build the things.

Then again, actual Atari made more 2600 Pac-Man cartridges than there were consoles in circulation, so with that bit of historical precedent maybe they'll pull out a rabbit. Doubtful, but given infinite sets of probabilities, anything could happen.

March 21

Victory! For the most part, but I'll take it. More on that later.

You'll want to zoom in on the photos to get a better idea of what's going on, but:

On inspection, I noticed that the via circled in the photo below had traces either side of it that were darker than the remainder of the trace. Continuity check showed that nothing was passing through it; the solder blob on it was also clearly not factory. Removed the solder blob, found that there was no pad (nor was it attached to the blob), and that the jumper on the back of the board being fed by this via wasn't even making contact with the solder blob on this side.

Decided to just bypass that entire part of the trace, so, armed with 22ga. wire and a soldering iron...

Here's what it looks like from the back. Not my greatest work, but it'll do. Ask me how I learned that you can't reassemble the keyboard properly if you run the jumper wire on the front of the PCB :-D

Aaaand here's the end result. Clearly, the HELP key is working:

All tests pass (including manual testing of the keyboard), and I never realised that the 1200XL alternates illuminating the L1 and L2 LEDs when running the memory test. Neat. Incidentally, this is with following @bob1200xl's recommendation to leave the Best mini-PCB out; everything's working fine, so I'll leave it that way.

As for why I say this is partial victory: still can't get the 1010, 1050, or FujiNet to boot. One thing I did notice while testing the 1010 is that that particular TV is a noisy bugger in terms of RFI: the 1010 is picking up TV audio from <insert channel here> that is audible during loading. The audio in from the data track on the tape is also much lower than on the 600XL or 800XL. I'll relocate things to someplace where I can eliminate the RFI issue, but it's good to know that the test display is as noisy as it is. Not sure why the data track on the 1010 is as low as it is on this machine, though.

One interesting thing: the fire button now works in Star Raiders. This has me suspecting that moving the unit around has jostled something into submission; more contact cleaner was picked up today, so I'll take a shot at popping ICs and cleaning their legs / sockets later this week.

For now, however, I am very happy with how it's progressing. Thanks to everyone for their help; it's been absolutely invaluable and greatly appreciated.

March 20

2 hours ago, BillC said:

Star Raiders allows testing more than just the console keys, there are also 21 other keys that are used for control.

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Raiders/Controls

And that is a valid point. Unfortunately, I received no response from any of them - just the four console buttons mentioned earlier.

Check my previous post, though - I think I may have found another issue that I was previously unaware of.

March 20

5 hours ago, kheller2 said:

You have a working 600XL and 800XL. Start swapping the chips from the 1200 into the 600 and test.

Going to hold off on that unless it's completely necessary, but it's definitely on the menu if it comes down to it. Don't want to risk potentially introducing problems into two fully-working machines when there are other known issues with the 1200XL (more on that below).

Quote

All are (mostly) socketed. If the break key is working that means at least one of the 4051s (U1?) is working .. sadly the Help key requires both 4051s to work.

I'm glad you mentioned needing both 4051s in order for the HELP key to work. That reinforces my suspicions regarding something I found while looking at the PCB earlier: there was a bad trace under a solder blob that looked suspiciously like someone else's repair. The trace can be followed completely from the ribbon cable through both 4051s before returning to the ribbon cable on a different pin. This is, at the very least, a contributing factor if not the current issue outright.

Going to work on that for a bit; will post photos once I've got the trace jumpered.

March 20

42 minutes ago, bob1200xl said:

You need to strip off all the old mylar and wipe all the gold key contacts with 91% alcohol. Use Goof-Off to clean the contact fingers, then wipe that with 91%. Do not use the Best spacer-thing. Just assemble the k/b with the new mylar. It will work just fine.

Bob

Thank you, Bob - I'll ditch the spacer PCB when I get back to it this evening and see where things sit. FWIW, Goof-Off and 91% alcohol was exactly what was used to remove the old carbon strip, and the rest of the contacts were also alcohol-wiped (no Goof-off).

March 20

1 hour ago, Mockduck said:

Nah, the only difference is the gatekeeping nonsense crowd found a different target for their outrage youtube culture. They're all yelling about the Amico nowadays so aren't wasting our time in this thread.

🌮

March 20

8 hours ago, Sugarland said:

You used the Best mylar? Did you thoroughly clean the gold fingers contacts when installing the new mylar?

Yes on both. Removed the adhesive strip with the carbon traces and gave the fingers a really good going over with isopropyl alcohol; also removed all residual material from the adhesive strip.

8 hours ago, Sugarland said:

You used the tiny pcb?

Correct, and I believe it's in the proper orientation. Did notice that the keyboard PCB now bulges slightly where it's installed compared to stock when reassembled, but figured that was par for the course.

8 hours ago, Sugarland said:

Have you tried swapping the two 4051 keyboard chips with known good?

Are you referring to the two on the back of the keyboard PCB? If so, then no.

8 hours ago, Sugarland said:

Does the self-test test okay on RAM?

Can't get to the self-test; HELP is one of the apparently non-responsive keys. Unfortunately, because it also isn't booting anything successfully (including my FujiNet) except for cartridges, I have no good way to try to see what is and is not working on the keyboard based on the software that limits me to for testing.

3 hours ago, leech said:

From my understanding the mylars don't actually go bad, you generally need to just lift and clean and remove the crappy spacer. I am trying to remember if I ended up needing to use my pens to redraw the circuits on one of them...

From what I've seen, 99.9% of the circuit fixes require redrawing the fingers. Wouldn't be surprised if that was required (or may be here).

3 hours ago, leech said:

But I would suggest, if you can, to go into the self test and look at the keyboard one. As you press on keys, try to roll yiur finger around on it and see if that helps create an initial connection. I know on the second one I have, I ended up doing that until all the keys worked.

If it would let me get at the self-test, I'd be 100% in agreement with you. As it stands, though, the only keys I can verify as working (because Star Raiders is a lousy keyboard test suite :-D ) are RESET, START, SELECT, and BREAK. That's four more than I had working previously, though, so there is at least some progress.

3 hours ago, leech said:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PB69R7Y

These are awesome for fixing mylar keyboards.

Thank you for that suggestion; I've just ordered a set 👍

24 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

No experience with Best’s replacement Mylars - I’ve fixed my own 1200XL keyboards using the tried and true method of removing the degraded paper tape at the contacts and repainting with conductive paint.

I do still have the original mylar, so conceivably could go back to it. The adhesive was absolutely shot, though - it peeled off with near-zero resistance. That might make things interesting (but not impossible) to replace.

24 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

As for the joystick issues, that points to PIA. The SIO issues point to POKEY (which may also contribute to the keyboard problems but hard to know for sure). The fact that two chips are implicated in the problems could also point to an issue with sockets. I’ve been down this road myself with one of my 1200XL’s, so good luck.

Thanks; the pointer is definitely appreciated. Sockets had occurred to me, but, as I'm out of contact cleaner until I pick more up later today, I didn't want to pop the RF cage and start poking around unless I could do something about it. Still, I will definitely be checking for anything that's come unseated or has oxidation on it.

March 20

For Sale thread is right here. Asking $250.

March 20

Digging through some storage bins I haven't looked in in years, I ran across a boxed Z-80 Plus card with Apple CP/M disks and manual; Applied Engineering was the card manufacturer.

This is a 'ran when parked' situation: the card and disks worked in the last Apple //e that I owned - in 2004. They've been sitting for 17 years. Granted, they were stored in a light-tight plastic storage bin in a climate-controlled environment for that entire time, but I can't provide any guarantee as to functionality. I no longer have any Apple ][ machines so cannot test, which means that this set is being sold as-is.

The underside in a three-quarter view:

And the top, also in a three-quarter view. The coffee stains predate my tenure of this card, so they're assuredly vintage 🤪

Inside, top opened. The same egg-crate foam in the same condition is under the disks, card, and documentation:

The disks, up close:

Top of the card PCB:

Underside of the card PCB:

The user manual:

And an AE catalogue:

And that's it. $200 + shipping. Shoot me a PM if interested!

March 20

Some background: the 1200XL in question is a machine that I've owned for around 20 years, but is also one that hasn't seen much in the way of actual use in that time, particularly in the last 15 years or so. It's also the first and only 1200XL I've ever owned, so it's not a machine that I'm terribly familiar with. As a result, any and all help is gratefully accepted. Note that it was always stored in a no-UV, climate-controlled envrionment, so has had a relatively easy life.

Here's the story so far:

Pulled the machine out of storage at Christmas. It booted with a new PSU from Best and output video (composite via monitor port), but didn't do much beyond go to the rainbow Atari screen. Sticking a Star Raiders cartridge in it showed that the game would run, but it did not respond to keypresses.

Replaced the mylar this evening. Per Star Raiders, the START and SELECT console keys are working, as is sound. No response from joysticks or the rest of the keyboard. Power LED is on. Pressing HELP at the rainbow Atari screen has no effect.

Connecting a 1010 to the 1200XL and holding START to boot from tape works, but it errors out with 'BOOT ERROR' after approximately a minute. The only button that works to make the 1010 load is the BREAK console key; none of the others have any effect. The 1010 and test tape (Thorn EMI's Darts) work fine on both a stock 600XL and 256KB 800XL.

Can't get it to boot a known-good disk from a 1050 that also works on the other two XLs.

One thing I haven't done is to pop the RF shield to see if there are any modifications, but given that the twist-tabs holding it in place look untouched, I'm relatively certain that this machine is stock.

Any ideas? I think I'm looking at a machine with multiple issues, but am not totally clear as to where to start.

March 20

Just now, YSG2020 said:

You are entirely incorrect. Learn the law and your rights. Clueless. It’s 2021. You can’t just go around being an asshole to people without consequences. Legal and/or otherwise.

Hi. Want to fit in around here? Calm down and be rational in your responses; name-calling really doesn't go over well here. Not going to engage with you until you can do that.

March 20

22 hours ago, YSG2020 said:

Lol. He clearly has you whipped. I’m nobody’s bitch. I Laugh how all of you who put up with his bs do so to kiss ass so you can get parts. Pathetic really. Have you no respect for yourselves? You do have rights as a consumer you know...

Oh, please.

Rights as a consumer have absolutely ZERO to do with how a business conducts transactions with its customers, provided that those transactions are carried out in a legal manner. Best (or any other company) can require you to sing "I'm a Little Teapot" before they'll sell to you. As a privately-held company, they're entirely within their rights to do that.

Don't be so bloody melodramatic about it; they're not infringing on your rights. Don't like the way they do business? Vote with your wallet and buy elsewhere.

9 hours ago, YSG2020 said:

Wow, so nice to see so many fellow forum members advocating for people to be mean aholes to each other with zero accountability or responsibility and decent kindness. Really nice. Is that the kind of society you want to live in? You people making these comments actually support treating people that way in the name of commerce? That’s really messed up and selfish.

Out of curiosity, have you ever actually ordered anything from Best?

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