TPA5

Bumpity up.

Do you ship to Canada?

This times 1000. My mom is a great example of the merits of accessible technology. My dad was at the forefront of electronics and computers as they emerged. He built the kits, got the electronics mags, played with circuits, he was a nerd. He eventually ended up in the IT market and now manages huge systems for healthcare. He is a smart guy, and I know I'll never have even half of the knowledge that man has stashed away in his brain, and I respect him hugely. My mother, bless her, has never gotten along with technology. My dad affectionately refers to many stories of her inability to work technology. She is a music major, she's always been more creative than geeky. However, eventually my dad got her onto an iMac, and she started to learn to use it. Now, because she's a naturally intelligent person and because the system was so easily workable, she actually managed to pick it up rather quickly. Now, she bounces all over the web for recipes, crochet patterns, uses email to keep in touch with her sister a province away, and reads up on things that interest her (classical music, etc). Eventually my dad got her an iPad, and she picked that up even faster than the iMac. She loves being able to call up recipes on her iPad and have it sitting in the kitchen while she bakes and cooks. She loves having it set up playing Netflix while she folds laundry. She loves reading books on it, playing Bejewled, looking up weather info, and listening to online radio. Those devices were made accessible to someone who is intelligent, but not savvy with technology. So my feeling is this... Is it good to have an elitist attitude about those "dumb" PC users that need to be catered to? I look at people like my mom, who is very intelligent, but not savvy when it comes to technology. Because the computing market was made easy to use, people like my mom (and I know there's many like my mom) can use all the resources of technology to add to their lives without needing a degree. Lot's of people in this world are intelligent, just not with computers. I have a friend who is so good with engines it's almost frightening, but he can't work a computer to save his life. Is he "stupid"? No, he just needs technology he can understand, because he's a genius with things that aren't computers and tech. So his iPad lets him look up manuals, videos, and other resources while he's working on vehicles, because it's easy to use. I think to a certain extent the PC market did lose some of it's excitement to people like us, who think vintage computers have an ingenious charm and level of expertise to them. But to treat the everyday PC (and by PC I mean tech in general) user as if they're stupid because they want easy to use, easy to run tech is elitist. This is of course also only my opinion, and I do not wish to offend with it. I'm just glad my mechanic friend doesn't treat me like I'm stupid when I don't understand the in's and out's of cams, pistons, timing, engine retard rates, and fuel flow.

Oh it all went downhill after the Altair 8800! Stupid marketing companies and they're fancy "terminals" running "graphics". Hah! Flipping bytes and outputting on teletype machines, THAT was before computing was real stupid. Back when only people with incredibly complex math skills could run computers, before the miserable unwashed masses starting putting their filthy miserable paws over MY computing industry. The utter GALL of people wanting technology to be accessible and available in their homes. Those rotten bastards wanting to use computers to make their lives simpler, without actually having time to read hundred of pages of manuals to get up and running. Why those entitled jerks, wanting to have a machine in their home that streamlines their lives while not being a difficult thing to learn to use. Heck, while I'm on it, remember back when the auto market wasn't stupid? Those good old Model T's that didn't pander to the masses with their forsaken "seat belts" and "airbags". Back before all these stupid people had to have "air conditioning" and "radios". I miss the days before the marketing buggers got their stinking hands all over the auto industry with "efficient" engines. It's all just hell in a hand basket now that MY industries have been taken over by OTHER people who think they have some right to use the technology that so obviously should only be used by people with computer science degrees. Those ungrateful wretches.

Anything that becomes mass produced suffers from a blending effect, a by product of the market turning into something that everyone can digest. However, had the market not exploded as it did, technology could not have accelerated at the rate it has. The masses that buy those "retarded" parts as you put them, pump billions into the industry, thus allowing companies to put great gobs of money into R&D. Is the special spark of early computing gone? Yes I think so, but I don't think it's quite as awful as you seem to think it is. I respect your opinion of course, and I think you raise a valid point. But to imply that the industry went to hell seems rather strong.

My pleasure! If you do it, I'd love to see a video of it. Those are attractive flight sticks.

PM'ing you about the PS1 game lot.

Actually I don't buy new old stock haha. I did that once with a Sega Genesis, and it sucked because I couldn't bring myself to open it and 'ruin' it, but I am a user-collector, I use what I collect. So I ended up trading it to my friend. It's true I'm sure one day the emulated road will be the only one! I do truly hope the generations of tomorrow have the opportunity to have preserved original hardware.

But if you knew that it was being emulated, would you enjoy it the same? The question is would you enjoy it the same, personally. Not would others enjoy it the same You make a good point when you point out that you make "The Old Box" (I like that phrase!) do things it couldn't do previously. Your changing the original intent of the machine, but as you said your still using "Real Iron" (That's two phrases I'm going to use from now on!)

Oh no, they're terrible, you should send it to me They were (if I can recall correctly from the research I've been doing on vintage joysticks) pretty decent sticks. I know some guys that do combat sim flying still use them, just mod them for USB support I believe. I'm not sure the value these days. There's abit of info here: http://www.thommos.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talon_and_SFS If you're doing a retro build, it would be a sweet stick to use on older games like Comanche and the like. If you can mod it for USB support it should be a good flight stick to use these days also. But seriously if you don't want it and I could afford it, I'd be interested. Could be perfect for my retro DOS/Win9x build.

I was listening to the Retro Computing Roundtable podcast, and they posed an interesting question I thought might be fun to chat about here. The question was, if there came a time where you could get a system, whether it be a Commodore, Atari, TI, etc, where it looked 100% original, but was a "new" machine with basically an emulator inside, would you enjoy it as much as a true original system? So the machine would be absolutely authentic outside, and inside would just be a small computer that emulates the machine completely indistinguishably from the original. For the sake of discussion, we are assuming that is emulates everything perfectly, so this is not a discussion about the feasibility of said machine, simply a question of could you enjoy a machine like that as much as a true original? Personally, I could not. It's why I work to collect. I think emulation does have a place, and I think the massive efforts to dump cartridges, floppies, and more is important. However for myself personally, part of the draw for me in terms of classic computers and classic gaming is the history behind it. That your using a machine 15, 25, even 30 years old or more fascinates me to no end. The real soul of those machines is the thousands of keystrokes they've stood up to, the thousands of hours of use, the programming, the gaming, the spreadsheets, the family budgets. To me, classic computing is about living history with these machines. Using an emulated version, even one that's indistinguishable, would take that away from me. That's why I'm working at building retro DOS and Win9x machines, and why I refuse to just "use emulators" to play 2600 games, or use DOS Box for my favorite PC games. I understand the importance and merit of emulation of those systems, especially since in the years to come they'll become more and more scarce. Still, for me I try my very best to acquire the original machines, carts, cassettes, and diskettes. So how about you fine folks? Could you live with a "perfectly emulated" system, right down to the case and keyboards with a little computer inside running the guts, or do you prefer running on true hardware?

Thanks for the reply! Could I see a picture of the Tandy Flightstick? I can't seem to dig much info up about it on Google.

Oh lord, that is absolutely revolting, I can't unsee that, I just can't

An Atari 400, as far as I can remember. That was back in 93, so way past the prime of the Atari, but my dad's always had a soft spot for his Atari, so when I was a wee nip of about 3 he got me playing and using the 400. Other then that, around the same era it was a MS-DOS PC he built. That's the reason I love my 400 today and I'm working on building vintage Pentium PC's from that era and a little later. So many great memories playing Commander Keen, King's Quest, and Roger Wilco with my dad. Those really were great days of gaming and PC use for me, everything was exciting and new.

It's not really a trashed trashed computer, but it is the most disgusting keyboard I've ever had the pleasure of cleaning. After about 40 minutes with vinegar, soap, rubbing alcohol, a toothbrush and q-tips, it was restored to not-vomit worthy condition.

Actually I agree, I misread the original post, didn't realize he was speaking about 8 and 16 bit machines! My bad, sorry folks.

Vogons.org (Which is an awesome site for DOS enthusiasts) has some fantastic benchmark work done for classic CPU's: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=28470 http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34666

I totally had one of these back in the day, I'll dig through my old boxes of stuff and see if I can dig it up for you. I make no promises, since it's been at least 5 years since I last saw it, for all I know it's vanished. I'll take a look for you though!

Thank you for the suggestions and the information about joysticks under Win95! That flight stick looks fantastic, I'd love to use one of those. I'll keep my peepers peeled for joysticks at my local thrift, they do usually price them very cheaply if they aren't USB. Thanks again! That Gravis Gamepad looks so familiar, I think my friend had one. It had a stick you could thread into the directional pad if I recall correctly? You reminded me, a steering wheel would be something cool to snag as well. Thanks for the info! Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I love collecting info like this!

Few more updates to the main post, back up to the top.

Wow, that looks factory it's so clean. Damned if I had $200 to spend on that, it would have a place of honour in my home

If you do decide to get rid of some of those vintage computers, and dependent on price and such, I wouldn't mind having a look. I noticed you and I both share the rough geographic location of the Great White North, so maybe shipping wouldn't kill us both.

Hey guys, I'm looking for your input on what you think were some of the best/your favourite game pads and joysticks are from the game port era? I'm building a vintage gaming rig, and a game port, uh, port is what the machine will have. Back when I was a young whip gaming away in DOS and then Win95, we never had joysticks or game pads so I am not sure what a good one is and what a crummy one is. What would your folks top picks be? Thanks!

I think tensions are running a little higher than they need to be in this thread. I should clarify that I think OldSchool does make valid points. Some failsafes would at least keep the lazier scammers away, but more than that having clear rules in place is something that's needed. Like requiring photos on a post, requiring a location perhaps (state, province, etc), etc. At the very least it clears up some of the less involved people trying to scam, and it makes it way less of a pain in the behind when people make others request photos. That's really irritating. As for the other scammers? It does come back down to using caution. But also we need to try to not scare new guys away I think, but I also agree they need to prove themselves before expecting people to jump on their sales. At the same time, we're all friends here, so let's not bicker

Haha oh OldSchool, you made me chuckle. But I actually do have to agree with you, I should have agreed with you more clearly in my other post. I think you're correct, having a pinned post could clear up a few headaches. It's like a terms of use, it's a handy thing to point people to when they either have questions, or when they try to bend or break the rules.