s-kelly

I have it from a reliable source that there were fewer than 10 Video Life carts ever sold so that would have to be rarest cart in my opinion. Magicard is a close second and Air Raid is a close third. To clear up any confusion in regards to the Air Raid cartridge I had, yes, it was boxed. I never owned it though. Many years ago when I first started archiving carts, I borrowed it from someone, read the data, and returned it to it's owner. I can't remember who it belonged to for the life of me. As for why I didn't scan it, as I said, this was many years ago. I believe at the time I was still using my Amiga 2000 and had nothing but a piece of shit hand scanner if I even had that. I really wish I had a picture of the box. As I recall, it had relatively cheesy graphics on the box although it was a standard, professionally printed box.

quote Personally, I think it would be just as easy to believe the person to whom it was sent sold it, made copies for his buddies, or just plain gave it away to someone. Maybe Activision threw it in their dumpster and this guy happened to do some diving that night? In this scenario, if I was under a NDA with Activision and someone had broken into my home and stole a preview copy of a game (hopefully among other things), I would a) make sure Activision was aware the game had been stolen, and b) watch eBay myself for my property to start showing up. As soon as something did, having the person's auction ended would be about the last I'd be concerning myself with. Taking it one step further, I don't see myself then searching eBay for anything and everything that had been taken from me in my lifetime. "Hey eBay, the bicycle in auction #11010101 was stolen from me in the third grade. Please end this auction immediately." or "The Hot Wheels car in auction #1101000 was lent to the seller by me in fifth grade and he never returned it. Please end the auction immediately." I realize I'm not comparing apples to apples here, but this is my point. If the Tony Hawk 3 could be proven stolen by ANYONE, by all means, prosecute the guy. But it having been stolen is only one possibility and in order for eBay to be facilitating the trafficing of stolen goods, doesn't it need to be proven the goods are stolen first?

quote I can see where you're coming from with the Napster comparison and while I don't want to get into a whole Napster discussion, I believe Napster was the victim of their own ineptitude. The company had practically no money and what it did have was "borrowed" from it's investors. To top it off, they were up against companies worth billions. So when this little, poor, company is being chased-down by other companies with an endless supply of cash to throw around, the investors left skid-marks and Napster was toast. The big difference here, though, is that eBay is not some little company with no income - they're worth tens of millions. They can protect themselves from Sega or Sony or Nintendo and they shouldn't be so easily intimidated by legal "what ifs". They should remember HOW they got to be where they are and strive to protect their customers rather than run and hide because something MIGHT happen. They should utilize their high-paid legal team to find out if this "potential infringement" the videogame companies hinting about holds any water as a service to the people who pay for this legal team. I know, eBay is far from the only company who forgets it's roots, but having watched it grow several hundred auctions listed daily to several hundred listed every minute, it's particularly sad to see what has happened to them.

quote Actually, I don't even agree with the Tony Hawk 3 example. If Activision was so stupid as to not somehow encode the reviewer's name into their copy of the game, they screwed up. Put the guy's name in it somewhere so they can PROVE where it came from, win the auction, and go after the guy who it was sent to. The guy who's auctioning it may or MAY NOT be at fault in any way. The guy who it was sent to is definitely at fault and legally prosecutable under the NDA he signed in order to get the game in the first place.

Albert brought up another topic I discussed in my email to eBay. quote This is absolutely true. To put it bluntly, it's really tough shit now. If they were so concerned with what happened to all their review copies, they should have kept track of them and prosecuted the folks who didn't return them. It's ludicrous for these companies to show-up 15 years later after someone has purchased one of these review copies at a flea market and say "Hey...that's ours by the way. We forgot to get it back 15 years ago". How does the old saying go? You snooze...you lose!

I would suggest that everyone who thinks this is riduculous email eBay and let their thoughts be known! I had an auction for a Genesis prototype shut-down last week myself and I most certainly let eBay know how ridiculous I thought their action was. If you look at eBay's user agreement, specifically the part about "Game Software", it's simply amazing! quote That's just the first line and in it they are essentially saying that these companies really don't have the slightest idea if the items listed below infringe on their rights, but just in case one does, let's not allow any of them to be auctioned. eBay also seems to acknowledge, in that very same line, that eBay itself could not be held liable IF one of these companies were to prove some sort of infringement. The seller and buyer "COULD" be at risk. Well why not let the seller and buyer take that risk if they care to? In my opinion, eBay needs to be constantly reminded who is paying their bills and their salaries. It's certainly not Sega, Sony, Nintendo, etc. who's rights MIGHT be infringed, it's the folks who are buying and selling this stuff on eBay. If any of these companies would care to criminally prosecute one of the sellers (myself included) and prove there is some sort of infringement, hey, they win (which I highly doubt they would). Until then, wouldn't it be wiser to side with your customers rather than some corporation from which you do not get a dime?

I just emailed Matt some screen captures from the movie showing Battlezone, Cloak & Dagger, and Tempest boxes as well as the Cloak & Dagger cart. If there's some way for them to be posted here, feel free to ask Matt for them.

Now Stilphen...remember that beating I gave you at Philly last year? You can count on double this year! For those of you where weren't there (which includes everyone on the planet other than John Hardie and Joe Santulli), last year at Philly Classic we were driving around looking for a restaurant (they need ALOT more of those in Philadelphia by the way) and Scott was getting a little "silly" in the back of the van. So I took it upon myself to jump back there and beat him senseless for about 37 minutes. He was sitting back there for the rest of the drive whimpering and crying and such. Can he withstand a 74 minute pounding? Stay tuned....

A binder?? Joe fought for that before DP6 was released but we beat him to a pulp until he saw things our way. Personally, I love the way #6 is bound. The old spiral bound book looked like something someone put-together in his basement. This just looks so much more professional. If the NES, C64, etc. stuff doesn't interest you, don't look there. About the only thing I don't like about DPG6 is the cover. That's not to say I don't think the artwork is well-done - it is. I just think it should have been some sort of a more "universal" graphic. There far more than just the Atari 2600 in there.

In response to no one in particular... The best solution to the whole ROM distribution dilemma is how Combat 2 and Elevator Action were offered at CGE. We laid-out the money for the original protos, we spent the time and money building cartridges, boxes, etc., and in the end, the people who purchased the carts at CGE essentially paid for the originals. Everyone knew going into it that the ROM images would be online within a matter of a few days, if not hours, but did you hear anyone bitching about it? Of course not. After CGE, the game collecting community at large had pitched-in and paid for the original. For some, releasing the games at CGE still wasn't enough. "How can you limit it to X number of copies?", "It's not fair to release it at CGE because I can't attend", etc. etc. etc.. Like it or not, I have to say, this is how the release of these games is going to go in the future. It's very possible in most cases to make carts and by selling a small batch of copies, it's fair in that no one person has to foot the bill for the original prototype. CGE will be the ideal venue to make the offering so worst case is that if a game is discovered right after the show, it'll probably be a year before the game is offered and consequently the ROM image is made public. There are already titles being lined-up for CGE 2002.

Wow...this thread got a little crazy since last night. Rhindle: I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that by just owning the only copy of a game, they then own some sort of copyright. They do, however, have control over whether they dump the cartridge and/or release the data to the public. Nobody is questioning the legality of releasing the data. In your example where Lucasfilm wanted the ROM to Ewok, they could request it and probably even demand it, the could also prevent the cartridge holder from distributing it if they chose to do so, but I don't think they could confiscate the physical cartridge. Glenn: quote Many people are uncomfortable even putting their stuff in the museum. No, we did not specifically ask him if we could put it out where it could be played. I don't think that would be a question I'd like to ask. Now it might be possible to make a single copy of the game that would have no value and put it in the game stations. Nobody ever asked us to do that. Instead, all we get is a wise-ass comment from you that Snow White and Mail Plane were under glass. Perhaps if you would have bothered to ask us to do that, we would have. Or better yet, while you were at the show last year, maybe you could have asked if one of us would plug the game into one of the game stations for a few minutes for you to see, we would have. I know if I was asked that question politely, I would have been happy to. I won't respond to the part about heckling the proto owners. Matt already said basically what I would have said anyway. quote: But why did this person lay out over a grand of his hard-earned money? Nobody held a gun to his head. Was it an investment? Is he going to resell it? If so, then he's clearly made a firm statement to the classic gaming community that money was his main motivation, not saving a game for posterity. Now how could you possibly have the slightest clue why someone would pay so much for the original. Maybe he just wanted it in his collection. Maybe he does want to save it for posterity. It's not possible for him to do that without making it available to the public? I don't know Glenn, I guess you're starting to lose it. The above statement is completely void of any rational thought. Snow White, in particular, was sold on eBay and open to bids from anyone. You had as much a chance to own it then as anyone else. quote Oh I don't know about you, but I'm comfortable knowing they are "safe". Sure, I'd like to read them, but the idea that I might be able to sometime in the future is much better than not knowing where they are or if they exist. By the same token, am I going to harass the librarian to the point where he'd rather set fire to them than let me read them? Cerainly not. quote First of all, how are we maintaining brownie points with anyone?? You mean that if one of us archives the data to a game for it's owner, we should release the data to the public against his or her wishes just because we put on the show? Here again, I'm happy enough that the games are archived somewhere. Since someone else brought up Ewok's, I'll use that as an example. OF COURSE, I'd like to get the ROM image. But my approach to obtaining it wouldn't be to email the guy saying "gimme!" I'd email him to see if he is interested in selling it. If not, I'd ask if he's had the data archived. If he has, then I'm forced to be content in the fact that it will never be lost for good and eventually I might have the opportunity to add the data to my archive. quote: I think we'd all like to know how many more unseen and undiscovered games are out there (certainly far fewer than this same time last year). Or is even this too private information to disclose?? Unfortunately, this information IS too private to disclose and you know the reason as well as I do. Before you're even finished reading this post, you'd have your email software fired-up and begin "heckling" the people who own them. Not that you'd be alone, there would be plenty of others bugging the owners as well. Personally, I'd like to see a list of ROMs that were made available because of you. quote Why is that such a sad statement? If many people want an item of which there are only one that means the item is more valuable. That's the case with anything from a videogame cartridge to a bag full of dead cats. It doesn't say anything about the hobby. As I said, Snow White was available to you on eBay just like everyone else. If you missed the auction, then I'm sorry, you missed out. It's not my fault nor the cart's owner's fault. The cartridge was sold, it's been archived, and the data isn't available publicly at present. It may be at some point, but the original isn't for sale and there's nothing you OR I can do to make the data available to everyone. Sorry, I don't have a price list of the other ROM images in "the stash". The people who own them know they're value and if they wanted to sell them, I'm sure you would be welcome to make an offer just like anyone else. Last but not least, none of us "CGE Guys" were responsible for sending you the corrupt Elevator Action ROM. I don't deny knowing who sent it, but it was done without our knowledge. The guy wanted to see if you'd bother checking the ROM image before slapping it online. Personally, I didn't find nearly as much humor in his experiment, but I guess he did.

How would you know that Snow White was shown under glass at CGE for the second year in a row Glenn? You weren't even there. I have to hand it to you though...at least you addressed us as "CGE guys" here instead of "John & Keita" like you have elsewhere. Just for your information in future wise-ass comments about CGE, Keita has nothing to do with CGE anymore. Furthermore, Snow White doesn't belong to John (or Keita) for that matter. Albert hit the nail on the head here: "Maybe some of them will become available at future CGE shows (as Elevator Action was this year), some might appear on eBay and be purchased by people friendlier to the gaming community" This is the problem Albert. If an undiscovered prototype shows up on eBay, who's going to win it? One of maybe four or five people. As soon as one of these guys wins it, they're hit with "gimme the ROM image?!" Now put yourself in their shoes. You just laid-out over a grand of your hard-earned money for a game and now people act as if you're required to hand-over the data. If you're comfortable paying that kind of dough for a game and posting the ROM image publicly, that's great. I can completely understand why someone might be hesitant, or even outright refuse, to do that. In the case of an eBay sale, the game was out there for anyone to bid on. The somewhat recent insertion of the word "Public" to the title of Glenn's "Digital Public Archive" is absolutely hiliarious! Initially, it was important only that the games were archived in case something were to happen to the data on the EPROM. Now it has to be a "public" archive. In other words, if Glenn doesn't have access to the data, it's not good enough anymore. Quite frankly, you (specifically you) are one of the reasons that some of the data isn't publicly available. So Glenn, if you want to complete this little archive of yours, start laying out some cash. Yeah, I know....your response will be to put the blame on how much prototypes sell for on eBay. Welcome to the world of supply and demand buddy. In the meantime, I guess you'll have to learn to take comfort in the fact that the game probably was archived by someone else. You see, it is possible for an archive to exist that you aren't the self-appointed keeper of.

Matt: Most people stay at the Plaza, but there are only a certain number of rooms "blocked" for the show which means if you don't make reservations, you not only won't get our discount, but you might not be able to get a room. The price at the Plaza is about half or less than half of what you would pay on the strip. It's an older hotel in the old part of Vegas, but the rooms are clean and a cab ride to the strip is only about $10. I'd highly reccommend staying at the Plaza. Scott: Shut up you giant penis with ears! Don't make me beat you senseless AGAIN! About the Video: The person who did the video in 99 will not be doing one this year nor did he do one last year. So we're pretty much on our own if we want video of any of the conferences. Some were taped last year by individuals, but we'd like everyone to know that we will only allow one or two people videotaping the conferences at a time. We don't want half the audience standing at the back of the room with video cameras on tripods. We feel that would be disrespectful to the people who are talking. What would work well is if a group of 3-4 people with good video cameras (digital) would form to tape all the conferences and digitally "trade" the video they have. Nobody is going to want to sit in the conference room the whole time and miss everything else going on outside of it.

Just a quick reminder about CGE boys and girls... The show is only three weeks away so if you're planning to attend and haven't purchased your tickets yet, it would be wise to do so NOW! Things are really taking shape as we pick-up speed these last few weeks and it looks like we will break last year's attendance by a fair bit. I just skimmed through some of the messages here and a few people who will be attending CGE who also frequent this message base include: Al Yarusso Matt Reichert Ian Baronofsky Most of the Digital Press crew Scott Stilphen Among hundreds of others... One news bit that hasn't been posted to the CGE site just yet. We're in the process of forming a homebrew keynote speach which will consist of four people who have programmed and released games for the 2600 as well as one or two people who used to make a living doing the same. The talk will be about programming the system and will take you all the way through building cartridges and getting boxes and labels made! There will be MANY games released at CGE including: Combat 2 - Complete in a high-quality Atari-style BOX! Elevator Action - Complete in a high-quality Atari-style BOX! Ms. Space Fury - For ColecoVision Joust, Dig Dug, & Pac-Man - The official AtariSoft versions programmed back in '83. Three different new homebrew titles including one from the author of Merlin's Walls. And at least one other well-known 2600 prototype that we cannot announce just yet. Don't just sit back and read about it after the show - live it! Classic Gaming Expo www.cgexpo.com