Symmetry of TNG

Hi! BJL/alpine users. I have decided to "release" some of the old/short demos/experiments I have created.. Some just to test the speed of an algorithm on the jaguar, others a bit more sincere.. Previously (hopefully) only seen by less than a handful of people in the hole world... (ever And perhaps that is good since they are just some of my small crappy experiments =) Nothing playable, but some is interactable. Positive/creative comments are welcome! For more info/techtalk dwl the zip & read the info.txt file. url is: http://ctsnlc.homelinux.net/~symmetry/Con2K3p2.zip Until next time. keep coding! =) /Symmetry

used 3 different cables for the pport way (2 3m cables and one specially hand made 50cm one) Ahh well... after yesterdays extensive debugging I/we are declaring it a gonner anyhow so. But thanx Everyone that replyed!! Glad to see that some people realy whant to help. Thanx! /Sym

Hi! No i have tried wdb & rdb for the falcon and wdb for the pc. same thing... There must be a problem with the alpine... the problem is to understand where! since there is no schematics and some things run ok...!? Guess he has to return it and get another one (hope there is one!). BTW: anyone know if the 68K cpu has anything to do with an upload, or is it just that CHIPS chip? Ie does the data go via the stub & the 68K or does that chip automatically put the data at the specified upl adress? Since there isnt that meny things on an alpine not that many things can be broken... suspecting GALs or CHIPS now.. but.. Thanx anyway for replying! /Sym

Hi! Actually I use my Falcon to develope & upl programs to the alpine. and then pprot is the only varuiable i know of. Tried it on my old PC once and at first it complained that there was no pp port... that was when it was set as ECP+EPP in bios. Had to change it to... "old style".. was it epp 1.7 ? or something to get a "stub ok" message in WDB. But when the exact same error at the exact same place appered I returned to my falcon and never tried it since.. (f.ex. Club drive runns pritty ok... though 1 level is broken. Its like if the program has code in low region and gfx in high region it will run but the gfx will be corrupted. If it has code in high regions, like most games, it will crash or be semi runnable... But thanx for ideas! Will trye once more (before I give up) on an old p166 with slowest/oldest mode on //port and see if that helps (doubt it). Thanx anyway! /Sym (..only 5days left to connexion ;o)

Hi! Sorry for the late replye but I forgot to check out the name of the book everytime I went home =) There is One book when you whant to learn 68K asm and that is the folowing: "Assembly Language and Systems Programming for the M68000 Family" by Ford, Topp ISBN:0-669-28199-9 It explains every instruction in detail with examples. Usable for prows aswell as newbies. Used as book on university courses, "thick" but is easly readable. And verry usefull as a quick reference book later in life. Think it is Macentosh examples but they applye with small modification to the jaguar&ST aswell. A verry nice book, I recoment it to anyone that whants to learn 68K asm, borrow or buy it, it will be worth the effort =) But as said, you never get to the "prow-level" without allot of studying examples and fiddeling with code yourself. Happy Coding! =) /Symmetry

Hi Stone! Well not only does the ones I have made myself not work, but allso all the roms included in the "developer CD" that came with his board. And from what i have heard noone else has problems with those roms. bad roms... the "counder rom" i made is good, on the computer side, but not after upload to rom... ?! yet native/slam works...? Its like the files get corrupted only if they upl to sram space directly not if they upl to dram... ! ? This makes no sence at all in my ears... but thanx for trying =) /Sym

Would rely appreciate some hints/tips regarding a mysterious Alpine board a friend of mine bought some time ago. It's a 2Mb alpine, with a 24MHz clock. At first glance it appears to be ok, but when trying to run some of the CD included roms none of the will run. The one rom I had been looking forward to see, PhazeZero also does not run, though it appears to do so, menu and all runs, but after “enter mission”, when the “drawn ship” appears (red flashing stuff) there is a adress error. Always at the exact same place. SuperCross3D runs, but there is always corupted grafix on the bike (at some angles). Thats about it. So, what have i been trying already: Long & short // cable, no change! (short=0.5m) Pprot=-1,0,10 and everything inbetween. Uploaded raw rip to 800000 Stripped header and upl to 802000 Tried adding the univ.rom to the above at 800000 Made a 2Mb “longword counder file” on my falcon and a simple $4000 test program that reads from rom and compares to a 68k counter. Remember it to pass ok, but test yesterday proved me wrong, there are errors! At rom locations (manually changing them seems to work, makes me suspect upload problem!) Adapted and ran Glenns memTst program, and it says OK !!!!!!!! Uploading of native & SlamRacer works ok! !! …(???) Yesterday I got an idea to upl the files via my own BJL cable (via BJL debugger) but still the exact same errors! Now Im out of ideas, and since there is no schematics around, fixing it will be extremely difficult (I already spent weeks bug surching it (now Im out of time=money :o/ Anyone got any ideas of what the problem is? I would rely appreciate it. To me it makes no sense, if memory was bad, Glenns tst program should not report ok. If upl was bad native and slamR would not work!...? The only thing that is not like other alpines i have seen is the 24MHz clock, newer ones have 32MHz, but that should not create this problem should it? Thanx in advance /Symmetry

Hi! I for one can say that I am Very interested in such a source! Been coding the jaguar for.... (how long has it been? one? two? years? now) and I would realy like to se how they did some of the things they did. I beleive that BattleMorph is the most technical advanced game ever created for the jaguar and I would love to see the source dwl'able. Might lead to new ideas/paths never before considered (feel like I'm talking about SkyNet here Hope it gets available. cheers /Sym

I beleive that if you talk to a usual windowsprogrammer and say that you implemented a tcp/ip stack or whatever, and explain the C64´s "specs" he will think that you are either joking or Stupid... =) when you know he´s the fool =) Also found on the contikipage, under webbrowser: http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/jpeg/ the C64 Jpeg viewer! =0) with proper dithering and all.. iirc the asm source is included also.. So cool! =) though Jpeg for the jaguar would be even cooler =D

Hi! The threads on AA have a tendency to go WAAAYYYY off topic just in a few replyes... (kinda anoying actually). But to answer your question: No.. There can be 4Mb of crap grafix and 2Mb of exceptionally beautiful grafix, and the 2Mb´er will ofcourse look better... But if the grafixs is equally good (and sized&packed) then there will be more of it in the 4Mb cart offcourse... (or more of something else...) But it will not automatically be better gfx just because its 4Mb =) /Sym

Hi! I cant remember ever geting B&W image nomatter what position my PAL/NTSC switch is in.. (though i might be remembering incorrectly). Die! You could use the "incompleded collision" cheat to see more of the level. Just press DOWN! ...and keep holding down!!!! the ship will be forced down through the background and end up in a "safeplace" under the screen... This alowes you to get past the "Stompers" and other things that usually kills you =) Now what I would like to know is where one can get those levels that have been shown on screenshots allaround, with those bosses (green bug thing, waterlevel.. and so on)... that would be cool to see! =) cheers

Ahhh Nutts! =) It should work better now.... =) CuteFTP had made me a bit confused when i uploaded it (Im only Human! But it should work much better now... =) *knock on wood* Though! ..ObsObsObs! ..this is not a finished product! ...if it will ever be! Just that i need more debugg help and thought to increase my polulation by release it.. But this version should work better than the ..previous "unknown" version =) cheers /Sym

OK... ALL HELL IS Breaking Loose!!!!!!! Just downloaded that version and I dont even know WHAT version that is! ??? 0.5 ?? It should say 0.9 and have allot of readme text.....?? I guess Once more there is some sincere missunderstanding in me trying to understand linux filesystem..... (though I onyl have ONE file in my directory it still can be wrong... *Hata linux!* I will check it out....!!! (Extremely wierd!..??????????????) *anoyed* /Sym

Dear Mr. John Doe Ok I didnt know JUGS had debugging capabilities, It says Nothing! about this on your homepage... Just read through it... Something you might consider mentioning clearely since it is a verry usefull and "rare" utility, please add that to the Easily seen properties of the product!. And about the price... I thought you got off easily when i added $10 (i allso added "whatever" since i was a bit unshure).. Later i checked.. and it seems that I have to pay $159.95 + $29.95 (will not do the add!) to be able to do some coding. so please dont comment about me guessing $10 to much. And about buying secound hand bJLs i can say that noone would not know it is there or not be able to read about it on the official BJL homepage. So he would defenitely be able to understand what he got.. no secrasy. (though I like the idea of having "hidden potential" in a cart.. just that it wasnt a suitable argument here) And building your own BJL, I would sugest what was mentioned on some BJL howto, to go to a radioshack store (or wherever) and ask them to do the modification for you, it will be cheap and painless (since for them, and with other people with similar skills, it is easy as a walk in the park). But Lets not fight! (and I never was!, Id rather talk coding, but I never get any replye on those..?..) I would say both things have their pros and cons, Jugs beeing the limited acess to a cart that has it built in, and perhapps its price. BJL that you have to alter the apperence of your jaguar, and do, or have someone else do, some HW hacking... (add and/or subtract some things!... so noone has to add additional arguments) reagards /Symmetry

Whata Heck! Matthias: 1st of all the filesize described is not what i have! it is about 3,6Kb (but that could be dependent on your sector size ón your HD). And what you describe is the Old version of the program.... Its a Yellow flash... and that is NOT in the new one! Only one color exists and it is RED and then it halts! So.. the only thing i can sugest (if you are a happily unaware user of Explorer, is that it have cacehd the file on your HD and everytime you click you get the same file... Its the only thing i can think of or all hell is breaking loose =) There isnt any flash in the version I delberately checked, recompiled, copied, removed all old versions and uploaded!!! (though with same filename! ..and a small change in the text file.. you should be able to read "hello all bjl modded jaguar users" ..after your suggestion ) ..if you see "bjl users" you got the chached version. Stone: Dont know if you have the same (IE) problem... if not then Yes, i moved the detection of the MT cart to before the CD things are done, to speed up the detection of option pressed (MT manager start). But that shouldnt affect the program that much.... And.. I cant debugg the prg or the MT support with SS since i dont have it! *caugh* /Sym

Hi! Ok.. I realise that now... So it means the program is usefull for me... and Stone then, Hurray! =0) 2 users, its amasing Ahhmm.. the program should have NO Flash... I must have mixed up the versions or something. I tested & uploaded the correct version now... and the dwl should work when CTS's server is online (which is most of the time!). But if nothing else coding this tought me allot of usefull things about CD access... (Now if just that darn CDburner could get here! so i could take it yet another step) regards /Sym

Need to clear a path through the amnesia =) It seems like there is similar confusions from both parts here. BJL IS bidirectional! it is the ONLY developing system besides an alphine board that has debugging capabilities! (though at the moment you can only use it if you have an Atari computer). As far as i know jugs dont have this kind of code... though as speculated it could! in terms of "new developers" ...Im shure that if this hypothetical person bought a game for $169 (or whatever) he WILL know about that potential and be using that if he ever whanted to trye out developing. And if this person dont and whants to start developing, then he has some choises: Trye to get hold of a jugs cart(pricerange: see above, IF its available!), bypass cart or whatever (and do all those patching written above). Or get a $20 (At most!!! including "difficult to build" cable) BJL setup. And all programs written by most hobby developers will work straight of, no patches. I think it is clear where the memorysaving will be.. But offcourse if a person already have jugs then by all means, go to scatologic homepage and download all new source examples, cool updated demos, jugs specific debugg program and have a go at it! EOS /Sym

Hi! Gunstar Hevens No! never remove a cart while running! Here is how i understood it The carts that have built in cdbypass code ( BSG & PSE ??) does Not have "flash" memory to store different game data (guess this will be thurraly clarified if it is not true But a memoryTrack has special software (MT manager) and ...is it 128Kb (?) of flash memory to store different game data. So the hole point of this (small and limited use program was to alowe, atleast the BJL users) to have the MT cart inserted & still boot a CD. Though... as mentioned, so far there isnt that menny unencrypted cdgames that have this feature.. but hopefully all future cdgames will... /Sym

Hi! Well yes.. offcourse you would have to make clever CD code inorder for it to run smoothly (total opposite comes to mind: SpaceAce *shrugs*) tripple buffer for example... 1 is "seen on screen" 2nd is "to be seen on screen" and the 3rd is fighting "read errors". Clever way of doing this (perhapps with fast depacking of data to send as little as possible) and intelligent level design,reuse of grafix in various ways, ... I think would make it work quite well... And yes.. if a irrecoverable readerror occures... well then the program cant run... but that is the drawback of any CD baesd program. Perhapps have level data CRCd and sprite grafix not.. or something... Main thing is to learn the user NOT to pick upp the cd on the play side with newly KFC greesed fingers =) Nor play frisbee with it ..=) Anyway It was just an ide how to blow away NeoGeo.. or whatever (other non related system this topic was about. =) It requieres ALLOT of work though! ..but so does all nicelooking gamedesigning. /Sym

Hi! Well.. actually nothing differs =) except that now it is public =) I didnt get the debugg help I would have whanted (via "el listo") so I thought Id just release it... It works with Ataris MT´s anyway... I could support other MT´s in the future.. if they turn out to be incompatible. And realising that I dont have to care about Highlander (sicne it is properly encrypted) I thouht whata heck =) Humm.. the bin shouldnt be bigger or smaller.. I wonder if i included the right file? ;o) need to check that. /Sym

Hi! All BJL users! What is this?: Just a small (useless version of my BJL cdbypass program. ie people with a BJL can boot a CD by uploading this program to the jaguar. The main use of this program is the ability to have a MemoryTrack cart in the cdplayer and still be able to run UNencrypted CDs, and get the "save function".. For games that support it!!! Currently that list isn't so long... but one never knows what the future holds =) Hope it may be of use to someone.... (If not i gained usefull knowledge about the CD by coding this little util =) Read the included readme.txt for a bit more info. !!!---Special thanx to CTS of NLC for webspace---!!! Cheers! /Symmetry of TNG ..ahhmm.. and now the forum URL thing... hope it works...=) http://ctsnlc.homelinux.net/~symmetry/BJL_CDBP.zip

Hi! "Ports".. well i see "porting" as a procedure to take some code and get it to work on another system (preferabely using some of that systems HW to speed up the task).. SOmething Like Doom I would guess... And I dont mind ports at all =) I doubt anyone would get rights to change a game even the slightest Just look at the limitations of the Doom source and you will understand what i mean. But hey.. ports isnt bad =) ..as long as it is something new for the jaguar I would be happy! =) Voxels: Yes "brute force" voxels vere "abandoned" when all these polygonpushers came to the market... Dont know why... they could make it DARN fast and more beautifull today if they had a look at "old style" voxels... Size: ...mapsize*2 I would say... 1 picture to hold color data, and another one, equally sized to hold height data, thats it.. (DoTheMath to get map size on the jaguars 2Mb =) (ahhm... not forgetting sprites, sound n stuff cheers /Sym

Just an Idea: It would be possible to use the CD in a "circular buffer" manner to continously load new game data,sprites level map into native. Especially so, since the way the game is layed out ie "continously scrolling" ..you will never have to care about previous leveldata than what is seen on the screen.... This would make it 790Mb if "Sparkling" grafix =) ....beyond everything seen above... probably beyond enything ever seen! =) Would state that having CD audio would be nice aswell.. but that would make the above idea much harder..(grfx&audio interleaved)... But if the "DSP-continously-depack" of sprite data were to be replaced with that cirk-buffer thing, It could be used to play a simple MOD instead.. which would be just as nice! =) Last note.. to T-bird... about this "nobody" and "no such place" you stated several times now... There IS and you know it, you just dont seem to recognise it. cheers /Sym

Hi! ..You! ..read 1st post ..or were you just going to get the rights to port it? =) cheers /Sym

"Pressing 3 on the picture above".... ...nothing happens... ..ahhh nutts...