BladeJunker

Idk, I'm doing okay, I work sometimes, I'm not dead like my other co stars from Different Strokes. The straight and narrow, stay off the drugs, life is good.

I have a question for you, why do so many people ask "What is the point of this and that?", why collect, why try, why breath?

Was thinking I don't really know what format Jaguar art assets are in, I have some ideas from looking but need some comfirmations. Actions speak louder than words and it would be nice to see some art assets posted for the Jaguar like I see on other parts of AtariAge, also abroad on pixel art and 3D modeling sites. I think at least part of what prevents it is ignorance on where to start and what form content takes. Idk I think these are general enough to post here instead of Programming, basic parameter stuff. Please answer anything you can or wish to. -What extension did developers use for bitmaps, are PNGs okay? -Has anyone made a converter for Blender files? Figure that is a good tool to support, free to get, works pretty good. -It says 2MB but how much of that can I really use for assets? -I'm guessing texture maps are based around an 8-bit global palette most of the time because of video memory limits towards 3D rendering. 1 8-bit palette is plenty but wondered is 2 palettes or more is reasonable EG. 1:Texture Maps + 1:Sprites? -I'm assuming alpha masking is colorkey based rather than done with texture passes of a separate texture layer? Because of that I'm guessing smoother blending of the edge would require dedicated palette space to do better than 1-bit alpha masks. -I see 16-bit and 24-bit color is possible but I assume that is more likely in 2D only looking at most Jaguar titles, a 2D engine having more memory free? -I'd never try higher than 320X240 in 3D but how high can you go in screen resolution for 2D, does it support many modes? Pretty limited application for pushing screen resolution but maybe for pinball games, GUI menus, puzzle games. -Could you raise screen resolution more in 2D games if you keep the number of layers low like 1 or 2? Like an extreme amount of parallax could get no better than 240p but if I used an NES small art footprint and stuck to one 8-bit style layer, any higher? -Does it do double wide pixel modes since it might be fun to do game graphics like the 7800 and C64 sometimes? Has anyone made any 7800 or Lynx emulators for Jaguar and was it full screen or letterboxed? -The Jaguar supports 4-bit, 2-bit. At a sacrifice of color could I gain much more asset space doing that? I see all depths are supported simultaneously which is great. -What does Monochrome mean and do on the Jaguar, is that a screen mode? -Bitmap storage looks like atlas/composite based rather than archives of individual files? Makes sense in cheaper sorting overhead and lack of texture filtering. -Mipmapping seems present in some games, how many levels do you think are reasonable on Jaguar None, 2, 4, 8? I remember my buddy calculating Full mipmaps and it was like 33% more space IIRC. -Is the Jaguar restricted to powers of 2, heard the 3DO didn't but that was very uncommon? -Looks like 3D engines prefer a default size in texture map, how big in resolution has been possible like 64X64 and 128X128 on average I'm guessing?

Dayum, you rarely see an architecture so resistant to expanding memory. I mean I know a console is kind of like an appliance but RAM expansion is pretty basic needs for a computer. So the DSP is the best bet but only if you could figure out how not to mess with the CD unit too much? BIOS changes are a bitch though, I'm guessing it doesn't flash?

Came to say how much I enjoy the show, binge watched all of them the last few days. Decided to take your advice about getting Jag games asap, even though I don't have a console they are getting rarer all the time. Bought Ruiner Pinball for $10 from a local game store to start, they got 8 titles left so a pretty small supply and all loose carts.

Well recognize the magazine sections, pretty sure I bought those issues bitd. Would be a nice piece to bring to conventions.

If we could some how convert them to Battlemorph that would be cool, kind of lead to gold alchemy. I think more highly of the sequel.

Well other than Bug! would probably recommend MDK as reference, it only uses a sprite for the main character but I think it is done well. I guess it is a testament to how well they integrated sprites on the N64 that it doesn't get brought up much, it matched so well with the polygonal elements. I'd say a lot of 90s PC 2.5D FPS games have visual cohesion problems, I think it comes from the wide range of sources used like stop motion, live action, photos, hand drawn art all mixed up in a pot. So you had a Jaguar bitd? Even when it was new I didn't dislike it, Wolf3D was really good but I was young with little money so I waited going from Genesis to PS1. Here's a post I did over at Sega-16 about 3D Sprite Armatures that you may find interesting, I suck at rigging and haven't learned to model high detail well so I haven't got it past concept phase. http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?28140-3D-Sprite-Armature Yeah I can't remember the name either, starts with a Z I think. Well you have a lot of sprite data but I wouldn't outrule animated textures, probably not as good but possible. I wonder if the JagCD could stream animated texture maps, of coarse then where would music come from? Idk Sounds good, good luck with your work on CKC.

Sorry that angry face wasn't for you, just for the situation going on out in the world for early 3D titles. I'd like to see another Kart racer on the Jaguar, I don't hate Atari Karts but I do find it very plain despite a good engine. Idk "Better Steering" feels kind of weak as a powerup and I'd like more offensive abilities. Well it just stands to reason to use 3D sprites, I don't know what I was thinking with polygonal units. I think I just wanted to make better version of the 64 models, I actually hate a lot polygonal graphics too, some are quite hideous and confusing when you've tried low poly modeling and done better.

Yeah just a concept, we're all just brainstorming here. You certainly get the basics of the level of 3D graphics this kind of hardware can do, world shell as polygons and 3D sprites to fill them with life. The Jaguar is like the 3DO and 32X when it comes to the misunderstanding of the 3D games it can do, they aren't Saturn or PS1 but they can do a heck of lot more than a Super FX chip. Diddys Kong Quest 3D looks cool, reminds me of Bug! on the Saturn. I think that 3D sprites definitely please more eyes than polygons especially with characters, like an angular column goes unnoticed but an angular character is tough for modern eyes which I think sd32 is right about. Mostly in Japanese Saturn games the graphics have aged better since they were more ambiguous about 3D and mixed in more sprites. I don't remember anyone demanding polygons on consoles other than marketing people in NA, I guess there was some stigma on PC games in using sprites once accelerator cards came around. I like Sonic Xtreme Returns, much closer to the Beta I liked than other attempts, never liked the direction Sonic Mars took. I like the concept but it just doesn't fit for Sonic. Jungle Jag is a good title, some say it doesn't matter but Ruiner Pinball is much better than its terrible title suggests. Crazy Kong heh, a month ago I came across that one in a refresher on 80s arcade games. Sounds like a good project to start out with to try Jag programming, you're familiar with the game and it is less dense with objects. Bless you for trying the Jaguar, needs more programmers and more 3D games too. Pace yourself and ignore the demanding types like me. Yeah I don't think RETROPIA would work on Jaguar without cutbacks. Your drawing distance is quite high despite the cubic nature of the landscape, mostly without hardware texture perspective correction you have to subdivide the floor mesh a lot to prevent warping. Your horizon looks cool but as is the clipping distance would be like Cybermorph short, a lot of stuff wouldn't be visible much of the time. If you switched to a 3/4 overhead view locked to a 45 degree pitch the camera would mask the short drawing distance. The camera would basically pan in a 2D sort of way kind of like Metal Gear Solid did sometimes. Could probably still zoom the camera, more in than out.

Well they should probably just skip the thread, sounds like they already know what they are going to find. Thanks for the help, short hand isn't my forte. "If I haven't seen it, its new to me." Things take time, always do, and even if nothing happens it scratches an itch even if its just an answer to what something would be if it existed on [blank] platform. I think beyond the obvious of Robotron 64 ported, if it sucks how can it be made better. I don't just stop at Robotron 64 sucks, everybody stop talking about it. This is just the general Jaguar forum, I figure as long as we keep our stupid ass ideas out of the Programming section that is fair compromise. People with real skills can ignore, laugh at stuff, or use scraps of ideas as they see fit. Now I bite my tongue since I really don't want this to go beyond 3 people.

My query still holds to Austin, even with definition I need more because 3 uppercase letters says very little. Even with this definition I don't get it. What can I say, there is no light house keeper. Without context I can't make sense of this, I thought he was sad.

You okay buddy, you want some McDonald's?

Well I'm pretty good at low poly modeling but even my best efforts would be lower in poly count than Robotron 64 and probably look something like The Sentinel. Early 3D is a tough sale these days in retro as even PS1 is often rejected even at the peak of its quality standard, bugs me some because good work is called bad just by virtue of being low res. I think good effects are possible, lighting sounds good, maybe some of those effects used in Tempest 2000 too. Pretty good color depth, I'm sure the Jaguar could easily surpass Donkey Kong Country in 3D sprite quality. Although I think the technique of static background rendering with only updating moving units has promise on systems like the Jaguar. Been pushing for games like Twinsen/Little Big Adventure being ported to Jaguar, 3DO, and 32X.

This looks like a pretty sweet game, kudos. I like the vector graphics, very much like an arcade title and something the Jaguar can do very well. Backgrounds look cool, look like those mirror refelected backdrops they used bitd:D Glad you decided to update it after all, seems like a game that can support many gameplay modes.

Oh sure the stage is just a subdivided cube with a big tile bitmap on it, nothing too out of the range of Jaguar hardware. That's kind of what made me shift thinking to prerendered sprites, the frame rate being so low on PS1 and N64. You really want it fast and snappy for this game.

Yeah I'm starting to think it should be more along the lines of what they did in Dungeon Keeper 1 to work properly, fix the view angle Overhead and use 3D sprites. That should help with the frame rate and at least let the level mesh be texture mapped. What do you think would work, maybe multi-colored units as basic cubes? Like a 3D equivalent of Invaders+. https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283

Thank you that is what I'm looking for, bad frame rates and slippery control, that at least gets me into the arena of what is wrong with it other than "It sucks balls." . Yeah there is something to be said about instant 2D animation and digital control versus gradual 3D transforms and analog control. I'm sorry robots taking over is positively cliche so it is familiar but laser shooting llamas that rescue sheep, with burgers, toilets, coke, cow skulls, squids(?), and also brains. Not strange, do you live in Narnia or the Land of Ooo? Game is still fun so I hope you don't think I'm saying it is a bad game even if it has a happy helping of WTF, guess I didn't grow up with it so it looks strange to outsiders. Yeah if it were 3D I'd likely start over from scratch with the 3D models, make something ideal for the Jaguar throughput. That's why I was asking about there flaws, inherent 3D problems or just bad design. Also I'd likely rename it also because of all the changes and legal red tape. I guess we'll see about physical copies. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234397-thank-you-jeff-minter-all-hail-the-yak-king-of-the-webs/

I'd really like to hear what you don't like about it, seriously for objective review, I'm indifferent to Robotron 64. Maybe you or anybody I inquired to could PM me some notes, I hadn't considered you're probably avoiding flame wars with fans. Doesn't bother me but I understand if you don't want a public posting. I'm just curious. A lot of people tend to ask for classic games made into new versions but I don't think they really think it all the way through.

Dayum, harsh fate. Cheap game to buy I see looking at sites so not popular, what makes it so bad? For me I'm not fond of the "baby head man" look of the player character in the N64 one, sometimes the source material doesn't scale up well even though the sprite looks a bit like that. I like this version by Opt2not, I'd wear a helmet too fighting robots. Llamatron looks like it scratches the same itch, strange theme though.

The N64 one, not the original. Or are you yanking my chain?

Oh sure lots of stuff like that from this time made into polygons for no particular reason. At least it still is recognizable, a lot of those 3D versions lost there roots. What did you have in mind for an update, maybe some 2D prerendered CG sprites? Gee I haven't played the 64 one, what makes the aiming harder, maybe it could be fixed?

Oh really neat, wasn't sure it worked in conjunction with the other controls at the same time. 15 pins must add enough separation.

I don't know man, it looks pretty tough, been looking and even the worst 3D engines wouldn't have many polygons. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/19187-real-jaguar-polygonss-count-voxels/ From what I'm seeing very few want to tackle 3D Jaguar games, it's just hard enough to be cumbersome. Probably a better chance of the original or maybe a 2D version of the 64 version. I guess it would help by dropping all texture mapping and Gouraud shading, using flat shaded vertex colored polygons only. Also the distance of camera helps with fill rate woes usually. Could do the usual and have 1 D-pad control along with the option to use both D-pads with 2 gamepads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DhxguHzwqo I see the appeal of it, if it could be done I think a lot of Jaguar players would like it.

I should try one of those some day, next time I see one in a store I'm going to bug the guy there for a trial test. I can't say I like Red though, I really would have preferred Blue or some way to dial in any color you prefer. http://www.collegehumor.com/post/6044144/virtual-boy-is-not-as-fun-as-it-looks Real shame Gunpei Yokoi made that thing, he wasn't in a high enough status class to make mistakes like Miyamoto can. He made lots of other neat things like Game & Watch, the Cross Pad, Game Boy, Metroid, and the Wonderswan. He was a clever man who used his tools well, I liked how he built from matured affordable technology. Cool gamepad though on the VB, figure it would work well for Robotron 2084 and other twin stick games.