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Suggestions: Pinball Construction Set source code is on GitHub. Apple II uses a 6502. Learn from the source code if routines have comments? 2600 Midnight Magic contains ball physics. I don’t know if there is source code for this 1986 released title.

Maybe related, maybe not: On some systems I own, I saw my DPC+ bB DK game would cause that playfield area to blink pixels. Most consoles don't do this. Having ZeroPage cimmerian stream my game and give feedback, his console was blinking ghost playfield pixels. And streaming doesn't handle 58 frames per second good at all. The capture footage reposted is perfect by the way, that's nearly the way the game play live. Playing my game or Star Castle for real is a little better than the best capture because CRT adds persistence, even LCD display with real systems have things that capturing misses. Always the second left playfield 8 bits, or the one after PF0, from about the center of the display going up, but not up to the top. When I saw that Space Cactus Canyon also has this, I really switched from thinking it's from really early and really late TIA chips, (which it kind of still is), but to thinking it is kernel code causing some systems to have these "ghost pixels". In Cactus Canyon, it is just one dark playfield pixel that's turned on, looking like something to get or avoid, but it wasn't programmed. And it is in the same playfield place as my game. RevEng actually changed the update time in the bB kernel and fixed it and released a new version of bB. Hope that helps! Try different systems and see if some work fine and others "mountain glitch".

Great review. I don't disagree with anything. I had some correspondence with Andrew, the person here from RetroN, right after he signed up and posted I was supposed to be in consideration for developer testing. I explained I have many controllers, displays, and old and new cartridges to test things. Also about setting and using Stella with real Trak-ball, paddles, etc. with the 2600-dapter. I explained Trak-ball looking like a joystick, or as a mouse-like tracking device. He was genuine and fascinated by some topics. At least getting some developer feedback would have given them the range of serious issues, minor annoyances, and things they got right -- or things that are great. Now the preorder buyers are the testers. Maybe too expensive to have a small production of consoles, when the Current and next version can be updated? For instance there is so many good things to say about the joystick, and one serious issue. If they fix the breaking plastics and sell them separately I would order more than one or two extra joysticks.

My Activision games, NTSC River Raid, Enduro, work if you insert it fully, then pull it up a little, then turn on the RetroN. NTSC Spider Fighter does not work, black screen when the dump seems to work. Pengo Atari (2690) NTSC cartridge works. Feel free to add that to the list. Stock system. Stella 3.7.x

Joystick design: More praise that the form and design of the RetroN 77 joystick is spectacular! Very comfortable, very useful long length cord, button on both top sides. I would buy more than just one if the fixed one truly lives up to the "premium retro gaming" as printed on the box. atGames sells their Flashback wired joysticks and wired paddles, and they are very decent. Many buy Paddle Controllers from them just due to the fact they have new potentiometer parts that aren't old and dirty. I haven't needed to buy any additional Joystick Controllers from them because the pairs I got from those systems still work. I appreciate the rubber bottom pads, and I have a use for them, but just not for this style joystick that I used by holding it. Atari themselves stopped putting rubber on the bottom. The XEGS Atari stick with the gray bottom never came with rubber feet. You could drop rubber feet to save money in the fixed version. I need and use rubber feet on controllers I use on a table. I look for ones to buy that have all 4 rubber feet. For example, the 5 button Starplex controller with the 79 Atari Asteroids button layout is best used on a surface and needs to not slide around. Same with the Vectrex console's controller. For small children I could picture them being shown how to use the RetroN 77 Controller on a coffee table, which is only possible if it doesn't slide around. They will soon try holding it as they will see everyone else using it that way. Again, you could drop the rubber feet to save money. Michael

I hope you get an answer. Just a comment about the Developer Cybearg. He hasn’t visited AtariAge in the last 8 months. I miss his work. I would be thinking of how to do a Fix It game with the 2600, and that same month he surprises us with a playable game. That title, which may upset the intellectual property holders, was why he chose to remove his game compilation cart from the store, but generously shared his games so anyone can play them. He was the type of member that quickly grasped batari Basic, understood the Atari 2600 7 “objects” to work with and generally how they work, thought of creative ways to use what’s available and created many, many excellent games very, very quickly. Then goes silent. It’s nobody’s business why. Could be he was enjoying reading and playing other memeber’s project, real life things, started a large project he wants to make spectacular, moved on to other gaming consoles, etc.

Thanks so much for offering to help! I havent started a pinball or even pong-ball like Video Pinball. I help designers like you and others are helping Bob. Ive been helped by members because I know next to nothing about coding game logic. Bob returning to 7800 coding, and a game with pinball at that, is so exciting! Great achievements and games are coming out despite being able to do an entire production by yourself, but because so many talented members here share what they know and help and contribute their work for free because its a hobby we love.

My guess about the cart reader: I don’t know how the cart slot reads the data from the cart and passes it to Stella, but the “reading data process” must not have the list of “bank-switch types” that Stella uses to play everything. Tricks had to be developed to bank-switch for games using more than 4K and each company developed their own ways to do this. Simplifying banking: 2600 wasn’t designed with a data pin out, so developers had to trick a backwards input to cause a 4K switch. The dump/reader, like Stella, may need to know the bank-switching type, or it will fail to read all the ROM data. Fun related fact: The added RAM was 256 bytes but only 128 bytes can be used. Why? Because it can read the RAM but not write to the RAM. The trick developed to make it work needs the first half of RAM mirrored to the second half. For instance, it plays Pitfall II on a file - but the cart fails, right? Stella looks up the “bank-switching type” using the data of the game, sees Pitfall II bank-switching is the DPC helper chip with RAM so Stella adds DPC emulation for the helper chip. The cart reader must dump and give Stella an incomplete file that fails to run. Stella may determine it is Pitfall II, but needs all the ROM game data because Stella cannot run code that isn’t there. Pitfall II is 10K to 12K so that is less than 16K. It has been said that physical carts of 16K or less can work — which covers most original releases except games from companies using exotic bank-switching and added RAM. Games with Atari’s added RAM like Dig Dug work from cart, so it understands all Atari methods up to 16K with added RAM.

As Bob is creating a video pinball part to Baby Pac-Man; Kurt offering physics routines; and Bob replying, “Ball Physics: I have a feeling I will need to apply trial and error on this one. This is something I've never attempted before. I've seen everyone's comments and I will re-read them when I get to this.” I commented that pinball movement was something I’ve had no luck finding physics code, and here it’s being discussed. Then I say perhaps another thread with this information would be a good thing. I ended with “Sorry to ask this here, but this here now is the closest information I have been looking for a long time and huge love and anticipation for Baby Pac-Man game WITH PINBALL is fantastic to me beyond words! ❤️ love, wow! !” And not 7800 math, but 6502 pinball math - which applies to the 2600 and the 7800. Isn’t game code discussion for use in Baby Pac-Man WIP a helpful thing to Bob?

Included in every purchase (just not this Mappy): :lolblue:

I made a mock-up in "batari Basic". Titlescreen: brightens into: showing the sprites: Then the bike moves. Button pops a wheelie. Never turned into a game.

There is: include div_mul16.asm which allows 16-bit division and multiplication using " ** ", however RT's website says it hasn't been fully tested, and I don't know if it works or does not work in the bB1.1 DPC+ Kernel. (I've had the other one in my DPC+ Kernel code: "include div_mul.asm" and bB doesn't complain, but commenting it out everything still compiles and works.) Maybe Bob will share his 7800 assembly code for ball physics? Just that writing my own routines for gravity, momentum, force, etc. I will know what values to experiment with to get different gameplay movement.

I always ramble in posts, but someone may learn the information they are searching. I really love pinball, from pong-like Video Pinball to 2600 Midnight Magic, to other system’s videogame pinball games using 2 or 3 screens. Researching the physics and coding it for 2600 is beyond my ability without some help! Even is it is simplified and not perfectly correct, there is “it is fun to play” or “it is not fun to play”. There was a simple bouncing ball basic program in Antic magazine to type in to Atari 8-bit computers that had variables that were fun to change, and then see those changes physics variables results on the way the ball bounces. Example: Changing gravity would decay the rebound bounce faster and it would come to rest quicker, or adding to rebound instead of subtracting creates impossible funny physics reactions. I failed at even making those routines into code the 2600 could use as Atari home computers have more math functions in its Basic coding, and data from strings and all that - I get lost. PLEASE help. Simple routines that even batari Basic could use would make fun games. This far I know: Coding sin and cos would use a data table lookup of say 0.00 to 0.99, no? And cos is the same sin data lookup but reversed from the last value going to the first value? I hope “bogax” is still around as he is genius with table data and coding math loops within loops that are elegant — even if I can’t wrap my head completely around what/how the code is actually doing things! Another thread on this information would be wonderful as searching the internet returns college like results and not simple step by step how to for coding the basics of gravity, momentum, etc. Sorry to ask this here, but this here now is the closest information I have been looking for a long time and huge love and anticipation for Baby Pac-Man game WITH PINBALL is fantastic to me beyond words! ❤️ love, wow! !

Very true, right? I think I told Bob, who is already an excellent TIA sound maker, how Dintar816 does it. Dintar816 told me, and I tried and failed at it for the longest time (as the method seems simple), but ends up needing some skill, luck if the sound effect needs 2 channels and you only have one. My Draconian and Mappy sound effects do sound like the arcade, they’re just not fondly remembered as is Pac-Man.

Why Atari? Many reasons. The 2600 being the first successful rom on cart system, sold in stores in different forms 13 years from 1977 to 1990. And the Atari on a chip plug & play Flashback 2 and the Flashback 2+ sold in early to mid year 2000. Having 128 colors when others had 4 or 8 or 32 colors into NES, even early computers were color challenged. I like the feeling because every game has to run as fast as the TV display. Other computers and systems slow down to do draw or remove and draw to displays. Don’t understand arguments that new tech and new tricks for 2600 are “cheating”. The entire NES was “cheating” — mappers in the carts pushing early 80’s tech way farther than expected. The Wii? Cheating. It’s ancient Japanese secret using a repackaged old Game Cube tech with modern Bluetooth infrared controller and selling a new way to move and play. Then the computer side is all upgrade / improve replace what you originally bought. Add more RAM, replace faster Processor, sound card, graphics card. And the developers returning to make new 2600 games in the 90’s to the present day still limited to the consoles processor not upgrade able still using 76 of its cycles per scan line, and it’s Pong Tank “graphics” still the same 7 “objects”, 2 8-pixel sprites, 2 1-bit missiles / line, 1 1-bit Ball, the 1 Playfield object of 40 horizontal very wide pixels by scanlines used vertically tall, and 1 background object make everything from Combat to KABOOM! to Pitfall II to multi-load RAM cart Supercharger using cassette to extend game play time and depth to today’s Scramble, Super Cobra, Mappy, a Pac Man that follows the behavior of the arcade Pac Man, to beginners with easy to use 2600 tools to have a hobby and can say I made a game for this console system. I had an Atari 8-bit home computer, but Basic never let me make a game I could finish and be proud of. I always ended lost in spaghetti code.

This Coleco Catalog was recreated and included in the AtariAge Ladybug limited boxed collector's edition. Had Coleco actually made the Ladybug game piictured, this catalog would have been in the box. I remember it from back then. It was how us kids learned about upcoming games. Don't go looking what else hasn't been created yet! Just wish for better versions of Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, and Carnival... yeah, that.

Regarding music and ROM space, the “Atari Sings Mappy” thread link in my signature was my TIA test 3 years ago. Way better than I thought it would be. ((So glad I got to help with the 3-channel music Champ Games Mappy and sound effects!)) I do not know assembly or C, but I know “batari Basic”. The first code of TIA Mappy main tune, with 8 number data for every Volume, Channel, Frequency and Duration was over 8,000 bytes for the 1 min 18 sec song. I kept thinking king of ways to optimize the data and put most of it in that thread linked in my signature. I just made up ways to shrink the repeated data. I never did anything like that before. It ended up using 800 bytes without dropping anything. Nice having it 10 times smaller! Even at the end I figured I could save around 100 more bytes if I used 1 Byte to hold 2 values, but I never recoded that in the song. Not intending to use your thread for this TIA Mappy tune, but I wanted an easy way to show you and hopefully help you learn while making your interesting games! (I had just watched Aliens and Alien when I found your horror game that could be compressed and expanded into a fantastic fun horror game people would pay to own! I really see that much potential!)

Oh he definitely has probably all 3 of his games still for sale. Vectrexians, Vector Pilot, and Vector Patrol. It just takes some patience. I remember him and people marveling about (in the 1990s!) about his Vectrexians and how he was POKING so many things to the Vectrex screen. Packratgames makes carts when given permission of great home-brew games, most will be in the Sean Kelly multicart 3.0. A Phoenix make from John Dondzilla is one I come back to. If you like Defender, definitely get “Protector” on Cart if cart still saves high scores. That is one I remember as a Triangle in the 90’s never dreaming a brilliant Defender could be done. There are demos of Protector and Vectrexians, but the full carts are worth it.

Just do not let Vector Patrol, which was developed over a decade and is one of the top 3 most amazing examples of “I cannot believe the Vectrex is able to do this!” sour your judgement of everything else released and homebrewed on the Vectrex. There’s lots of “original release” gems and stinkers, just like “modern home-brew” gems and stinkers. If I am confusing or not clear please let me know. Vectrex console is a most favorite gem of mine, and Vector Patrol has become my #1 videogame work of all time.

I never thought of the screen scale thing. That is definitely a factor as the gameplay in both is similar or exactly like the arcade.

What do you mean “no public ROM”? In this thread there’s a June 6 build. The most current private build is June 8.

Draconian also plays, but is slowed down by the speech, which just is just a buzz. I wonder why the speech/3 channel sound fails, as mine is a FB2+ mod, and the speech in Quadrun does work. Both problems are probably due to the A12 line that is being brought out for the added cartridge connector not changing. The CDF bank-switching format must not use A12 FOR switching banks, so thats why it plays, but it must be used a different way which is why things arent 100%.

My modded FB2 plays it also, but not the 3-Channel music, just the TIA game sound effects? Is yours playing the 3-channel music?