Jaynz

About as definitive as it gets on the game: http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=astro-blaster&page=detail&id=129 Judging from comments on various boards, it LOOKS like the difficulty stops ramping up at sector seven, with all the speeds, shots, etc., consistent from then on it. I haven't found any hard info on that, however, and I'm sadly not good enough on MAME to get that far in the first place.

I thought Bob was trying really, really hard to make this a game to fit on a standard board (which I heartily approve of). For my own curiosity, however, what is required to enjoy the AtariVox+? As a friendly suggestion to Bob, I would keep this in mind once the other planned additions are done. If there's room on the cart for these lines, then it would be fair to test this on a rom for us to play with, right?

Nikon, no one here is attacking Bob or this already-excellent port of Astro Blaster (seriously, this ALREADY surpasses what Atari would have done in 1984, and we all appreciate that!). They're just giving feedback as Bob continues work on the game, as well as being respectful that the Atari 7800 does have it limits. So long as everyone is respectful of Bob and his replies, then it's all good.

Bob, I'm actually pretty happy with the graphics on this one. Reminds me a lot of the original arcade when I was playing it at Zayre (showing my age)... it could be a little prettier on the 7800, I suppose, but I think it would change the feel a bit from the original and also take up resources that probably should go to sound and voice. And, playing the game a bit more, the shots really just breeze through the left of the critters like they were nothing. Moon Cresta does this a bit as well. (Though, not being familiar with the original of THAT game, I'm not sure how it compares.)

CPUWIZ, can you work out something with AL to get these produced in batches for use in the storefront? So if, say, PMP were to make "Kangaroo" or "Pitfall II", the games could get thrown onto these cards through AL and sold directly, with you getting some of the cost back?

I actually came in today to comment on this one... I noticed this a bit in Moon Cresta (making the game VERY tough), it really looks like your shots 'skip' the baddies sometime, particularly on the left and right sides. Maybe a more forgiving collision detect between the bolt and the enemy ships is in order? It's most notable (so far) on the asteroid screens... a dead-on vertical shot just seems to go right through.

Okay, Jinks, that just made me /super/ old in comparison...

ohhh.. good choice. Can't wait to play this one.

I would hope that most 7800 fans would be old enough to get a Monty Python reference...

Well, then, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to shoot you.

Read the rest of the post, Desiv.

I don't mean this offensively at all.. but have you considered a more... meaningful hack to make a game a bit more original? Similar to turning PacMan into Ms PacMan back in the day?

Just a simple question, since POKEYs are starting to get into short supply, is there a possibility of a new chip to be put on carts that can emulate POKEY and/or DPC to be put onto new carts that wouldn't require lots of careful reprogramming? IE, let's say that I wanted to burn a 'modern' Ballblazer cart for the 7800. Is there a chip that can be taken 'off the shelf' today to handle the POKEY for the new boards?

Okay, I admit it, I lost my top for a bit. Here's the thing. I'm sick of the XM. This isn't about Curt or even the XM itself, but what's happened to the community because of the XM. Suddenly, the already-small 7800 community has a big rift in it between the 'real 7800 fans who love the XM and will have everything for it in the scene' and the 'poseur 7800 fans who maybe will get some leftovers if they're lucky'. It's not about what the 7800 can do, or the games, or the technology, but your 'fandom status', and I despise that. As I said, the XM isn't really that suitable for Qix, because Qix isn't that complex or graphically/musically-intensive of a game. For my saying no more than that, I was personally attacked twice. I certainly didn't deserve it, and it does not endear me to want to be a part of the 7800XM community. If anything, it makes me kinda want Curt to never get around to finishing it so we can go on just liking the 7800 without the drama! So some of you, before you eagerly draw the battle-lines over the damn thing, start typing again, please STOP for a minute and think about what you're actually doing to the 7800 scene. It's not helpful.

I don't know why you guys felt the need to shit on me.. but, you know what? I'm done with all this. And I'm done with AtariAge, and I will never purchase from here again. I quit. You guys have CLEARLY decided that you're willing to 'divide the fandom' by some level of 'importance' based on if you support the XM or not - and this hostility and hatred over the damn thing is just ridiculous. I do not want to be an 'Atari Fan' if it means you have to be an absolute prick about if you've bought the right piece of fan-made equipment or not. This is junior-high level maturity, and my nostalgia for Atari is only for the gaming experience, not reliving 7th grade.

"Price", really? To assist in affording an XM the advice is to set aside $1 a day - One dollar a day. Within 6 to 7 months the funds for an XM along with a game that utilizes it is achieved. That's assuming that I'm prioritizing the XM in my 7800 collection, of course, and not other games, or even other consoles. Sure, you can say "That's your own damn fault" at that point, but as I said, the XM is a very specific fandom niche - and isn't likely to be any more of a mainstay for Atari fans any more than the equivalent 'super system is for the Colecovision fans. It's cool, but it's a niche within a niche so I'm VERY wary of turning the entire 7800 homebrew scene over to it, which is what's being openly discussed. "Limited numbers" doesn't exist as Curt has made it clear that once the initial orders are shipped there will be more than enough to cover new demand and orders. Which after that point if more is required they will be made. Curt isn't a factory, though. There's only going to be so many that he can put out, and there's only going to be so many people that will want a $200 XM (half way to a PS4 by itself, keep in mind) in the first place. (This is, of course, ignoring just how divisive the entire XM saga has become over the years.) That's really why I think if you're just looking to go up from 4K, that there should be other, more viable, solutions to look at. Fortunately, it looks like we have one.

Going to try to reply to a few here, but the editor is working against me. Please bear with: Originally from Jinks >> Jaynz. Who said Bob or anyone is making this game? That would be Bob himself, actually. Edit: Okay, I'm wrong on this one. I misread a post. My apologies here. >> Also publicly paying him off 100.00 to do it your way without xm to make a point is really mature.. It's a public challenge for a prize, or a bribe. I honestly believe I have the math down that this can work and be excellent without the required ram addition for the XM. I do not, sadly, have Atari programming experience under my belt to pull it off (my recent work is mostly C or C++). Bob is an amazing programmer, and honestly I just want to support him even though I do most of my 7800 gaming in emulation these days and therefore won't be needing carts for awhile. >> I don't think Bob makes his games for profits. I think he must really like programming and sharing his creations with us. And every one of us is totally thankful for whatever kinda game he wants to make. I don't think I EVER gave the impression that Bob wasn't an incredibly talented programmer and designer. The man simply amazes me. >> Also I dont get the hate for the XM.. and clearly that what it is. Don't try to hide it. I just don't think the XM is appropriate for a game that's as relatively simple as Qix. Pitfall II? Sure. Gauntlet, more than likely. Ys Collection? Absolutely. Qix? Not really. It's not going to benefit much from the XM, and it's not a strong enough game to attract people TO the XM. I don't feel that it's a good fit. Simple as that. >> You guys trash on that opcode guy for the colecovision XM he made? And complain about the games he makes? Is this not the same kinda deal? Who's trashing on the XM? I'm just more concerned that there's going to be a 'movement' once the XM comes out that the scene here will be 'all XM, all the time', which will royally screw over people who DON'T have the XM, and won't be able to get it due to price and limited numbers. So reserve the XM titles to 'super' versions of games, or exceptionally large games for the 7800 experience. Smaller straight arcade ports? I just don't see it as wise or conducive to the 7800 scene. Originally from Trebor >> My position is more along the lines of: Should games be created that maximize the full potential of the 7800 in the same manner other systems of its time had done for them, or should we stick to the limiting it to fit into a similar mold that was part of the system's ultimate demise? I think maximize full potential should be the key. Additionally though, I support any development and new things for the 7800. This includes reproduction of a game I already have boxed in near mint quality. Like I said, the reality is (or WAS, get to that in a minute) that it's either going to be an XM or a recycled 7800 common cart. If that's the choice, and it can be a painful one, then I would put THIS particular game as a regular 7800 cart if at all possible. Again, I explained my thinking on this above... I'm a believer that someone's work should get as much coverage as possible. >> In my humble opinion it is easier to just cut to the chase and say, "I really only want to see "this" game if all hardware is contained within the individual cart to allow at the very least some sound (Even if inferior) and of course video". It's more to the point and upfront then claims that the 7800 is trying to be something it isn't or that it is not a 7800 game if it requires the XM. I see a lot of the XM's buzz in various threads about making it a 'newer, bigger, stronger' system... like a super-system. That's not new to the classic scene either, of course, but it DOES create problems within the already-small fan base. I would RATHER see an NES approach (or, Commando approach if you prefer) to extending RAM if possible... but, for the most part, we're limited in that option to existing carts. (Again, more on that below.) >> Somewhere, and again, I believe was already seen this to some extent with Froggie and Beef Drop, there is a happy medium. Like I said, throw the POKEY option on the cart along with the HSC code. Take advantage of the features if they're present... but don't make the game strictly /require/ the XM just to be played. >> We can all agree (Or at least hope) that any sort of game development on the 7800 is great to see. Absolutely! >> Oh and Jaynz - $100 donation really with no other purchase included? Hope that isn't perceived as paying for Bob's time on the game. I think that covers about 1/100th of total hours spent at best As a game developer... even in my prime I don't think I was /that/ fast. No, this is just incentive and a way to support Bob's efforts. (I really don't see how someone could take offense to the challenge...) Originally from CPUWIZ >> I can totally see someone pull this off with my new 256K + 16K RAM board. And this may be a very practical solution to the whole problem. If Bob can't squeeze the field down and have it look right, then this new homebrew-friendly card sounds like a very good alternate option. No XM required and solves the most painful of the 7800s limitations.. that 4K ram limit. (Seriously, Atari, 4K? In 1983?!)

Bob > Playing the arcade... it cheats for the back-drawing. It's not a per-pixel bitmap, but 4x4 chars from the looks of it (or a larger set of 8x8 chars). (Do a 'death spiral' and you see how it breaks down). So, Bob, here's my challenge.. $100 from me if you keep this to the non-XM ... (though of course optional pokey and HSC for XM use is just fine.) To Clarify: That's a $100 straight-up donation. No other purchase included. Trebor > The difference is that Nintendo didn't require you to buy an add-on for all those games. As I said, the XM may be glorious, but few of even us HERE are going to have one, much less the 7800 base. I would hate to see a fairly basic game like Qix get bumped up out what I would think as 'reasonable' when the XM should probably be looked at more like the 'super mode games' or extended adventures, etc. (In my opinion.)

Trebor, for practical purposes, the XM is the ultimate elitist schism in an already small audience base. It's neat, and I'm sure those who will get it will love it, but the majority of 7800 fans will NEVER have one, and those guys who get the carts from the store aren't going to be keen to say "For an additional $200, you can get a POKEY chip for Qix!" either. As soon as someone says "Let's make it an XM title", I read "Let's screw the whole 7800 fanbase for our own little clique of fans!" So, for me, if a game doesn't actually NEED the XM for some key, important reason (and Qix's sound is nowhere near involved enough to warrant Pokey, much less Yamaha!), then I don't really want to see it go there and be exclusive to it. Besides, when I want a 7800 game, I'm shooting for the 7800 experience. I already have a NES, Colecovision, et al... so I, personally, don't really see the benefit of an 'XM Port' when I can already get the NES title or the arcade version. Save the XM for an expanded 7800 experience, not to try to fake being an NES.

The HSC could be an option, but wouldn't strictly make the game an XM game. As for sound.. this is Qix. TIA can pretty easily duplicate a lot of the 'rhythm' sounds. The only issue MIGHT be the 'death' ringer... but I have faith that the devs here on AtariAge could code a very good version of that for TIA as well. Again, I'm just not seeing anything about THIS game that would REQUIRE the XM. (I know there's excitement for the XM, but the constant refrain of "This should be on the XM" is very self-destructive, since it limits game releases to those with a 7800 AND an XM, with the latter indefinitely delayed again. Sure, there should be advanced games for it, the Qix really isn't one of them that makes sense.)

Err... looking at Qix... not exactly sure why it needs to be a dynamic bitmap as it isn't in motion at any given time, doesn't scroll, etc. Doesn't the 7800 support a playfield? Even if you DO use it as a bitmap, there are only 2 bits require per 'spot'... (320x240x2)/8 , assuming each and every single pixel at hi-res (which the arcade doesn't even do), that's 19.2K . Knocking it down to every other pixel gets you down to 4.8K ... A couple of good tricks and you're pretty easily under 4K here... I'm not sure why anyone thinks the XM is necessary for Qix. :S

Keep in mind that the XM is a bit of an open wound for a lot of people, either way, and is a major point of contention. Though Curt has had serious issues forgiving a large chunk of the delays, we've gone months at a time with sporadic 'almost there' comments and a general feeling of unfulfilled promises. When someone innocently asks 'Yo, what's up?', there are more than a few people with emotional investment in the XM that will attempt to rally to Curt's defense rather than just answer the question these days. Of course, that reaction just alienates people even more, etc...

Really bad timing for me to support this (lost a family member and the emergency trip set us back a LOT unfortunately), but I totally would otherwise. A new 7800 board would go a long way for other homebrews and updates as well!

I think the difference for supporting Qix is that it's a fairly unique title, whilst most games discussed for porting are in genres the 7800 already has SOMETHING of. For instance, I would love to see Gorf and Phoenix made, personally, but we already have a few vertical shooters under the belt. I can't think of ANY game that's 'like Qix' that's already on the 7800.

*chuckles* Suddenly I'm feeling for poor PMP about his game catalog. But I agree, Qix would be a good addition to the 7800's line-up. Is there source available for a different version (like the 5200) so the logic can be looked at?