justclaws

Well sorry about that, but I think you missed part of the point of Thunderbird's post as well, and my reply, where perhaps I was unclear. As I said, I understood the point that Thunderbird was making about people interested in development not finding information so easily, but really that is astonishing to me, have you ever looked for yourself? There is lots of information on the sites I suggested, a web-ring linking the Jaguar (and other Atari) console developers, and various forums. JDC used to have a development forum, but it mainly got populated by people just wanting games, and flaming people for not having already released commercial quality games, for free, yesterday. On the Jaguar home-brew Yahoo group, there is a comprehensive list of links to developers, tools and resources, and I've never received any queries about any other discussion forum. I've introduced several members. Clearly the (totally secret) developers of "Arachnoids" who are now apparently working with Scatologic had the initiative to contact them about publishing. Clearly the members of UGD-JAG who were never invited, but just subscribed, (remember you're only invited if you DON'T subscribe yourself) had the initiative to find out how from one of the sites that listed the subscription details, mine is one. Clearly the new secretive developers of Arachnoids would probably have been invited by some UGD-JAG member to join, had any email address of web-site been available. Clearly anybody visiting the JDC, Jagdev.Org, BJL, or DevCats sites can quickly find development documentation, tools, source code, and contacts. What is so difficult? Really, this is a genuine question, not flame bait. What can be done to any or all of these sites to resolve this? I said that to encourage developers, this would be something well handled by both Scatologic and Songbird who could publish future titles, my point about UGD-JAG not doing this was just to explain that as individuals we have no crusade for Jaguar development, it's a good thing to do, yes, but why do we have to change what works for us, and has done for as long as home-brew Jaguar development has been going on, just to dispel the criticism of one non-member, when more than 20 members are quite happy? Email has worked for us for years, much better than on-line forums which require hours on-line, and would handicap several members who only have a short time each day to connect to the Internet by modem. Well I guess I can't comment on my faults, which are undoubtedly numerous, but I hope arrogance isn't one of them, and I accept your criticism. I never intended to start a flame war, and I've not flamed anybody. I understand that Matthias identified my post as the first stone, but really as I said, I'm happy to apologise for any misunderstanding. All I wanted to do was explain why some projects that support E2PROM are currently delayed, and that is because the UGD-JAG group has been waiting for some input from Thunderbird on how to make sure that new games can be made to work on both BS-G and P-SE/B&C and future cartridges which will include JagFreeCD and 2K E2PROM support. Despite all the arguments, we are still not any close to realising that objective. I have my opinion, and I don't begrudge anybody from having theirs. However, I'm not willing to be criticised for chatting in private, in secrecy, when people doing the criticism are maintaining similar secrecy for no apparent reason. UGD-JAG started secretly because at the time (way back in the days when Jaguar was Atari's "upcoming" platform, Atari had a very unfriendly legal department who certainly didn't encourage home-brew titles, or any kind of discussion about the Jaguar. However, despite the comments from Thunderbird, if you look around, you will see that the Jaguar development community is anything but secret. (I'm sure he has just somehow missed all the activity, I don't know why.) Any time anybody posts a question, several people post a reply. Nobody is secretive in coming forward to help potential developers! There is lots of source available, not just Atari stuff as Thunderbird imagines. There is a complete CD of stuff from Starcat with complete copies of the development documentation. There are lots of projects from Matthias, hardware and software, and for software source code for many. There have been discussions on AtariAge about light guns, keyboards on JI2, modems, processor over-clocking, new ROMS, CD bypasses... etc.. Finally, I have taken up Thunderbird's suggestion for public discussions on shared problems (and issues which the Underground have hoped for dialog on with Scatologic,) and discoveries and hope that these new public forums will yield results for everybody. I hope that everybody is not too disappointed by the nature of discussions which result, I'm sure the majority will be the same sort of repeat questions/answers which are inevitable whenever a new Jaguar home-brewer joins the UGD-JAG list. So if I still have missed the point, give up, I'm too stupid to understand. Regards, JustClaws

Hello, Just one of question, which maybe you can help me with. In fact, when I think about it, I think we need to start a new Jaguar Yahoo group for this discussion, or something similar, to resolve it, but I'm open to ideas... Many of us on the UGD-JAG group are unfortunately not equipped with any nice fast Internet connection, and especially not an always-on one. They just aren't available to all of us, either due to cost, or location. I use a dial-up modem, as does Matthias, and several other people I think. For us, the facility to dial-up, pull-down our messages, and reply, is great. Right now, I'm anxious about every visit to this board, because the length of time to read messages, and to post (and the reason why I only read about 1% of the messages posted) can be considerable. I don't have the time to browse a discussion board. I'm paying for Internet access by the minute, and I'm paying for a phone-call, and I'm balancing my very limited free time between time spent on-line running up a phone bill against time spent programming, time spent socialising, time spent on my other hobbies, and no#1 time with my wife and kids. I guess not everybody has that problem, and I guess you have always on Internet, but it's not available here, or for my UK home, so modem it is. Email (as used by UGD-JAG) has the great advantage that it's still there and useful 2 weeks later, or 6 years later, and I can reply off-line. Just the time to read the most recent posts and type this message today has been ridiculous, and I'd not bother if I didn't see getting these issues with you resolved, so that everybody can work together on Jaguar matters... The reason I've always liked JI2 is because it's one forum, one quick and simple page to browse, these forums are sophisticated, but the fact that there are so many different threads makes them a nightmare to monitor. Regards, Richard / JustClaws.

Hello, Well why don't we just start some active threads on this board, and if people want to talk about them, they'll come along and so so. I'm thoroughly in favour of open discussion, let's start some threads on here, to give them credibility, and interest, you should create the headings, and let's get discussion on them going. Nobody is going to object to that!!! However, the UGD-JAG group should not be expected to change when everybody is happy with it. If everybody migrates to these public forums then the UGD-JAG group will die off, and that will just be an old chapter. Any interesting topic will attract posts and spread by word of mouth. If you stop being secretive about your discoveries too, and give some good development advice to everybody about things which have been problem areas for years, and which everybody would love to have some sample code for, like Jaglink networking, the Cat/Scatnet networking, reading and loading additional tracks off CD, how you think the EEPROM problem should be resolved, and more, then this would really encourage everybody, as these things are all real problems that need discussing! You are either completely misunderstanding when I say cool, or being a bit mischevous. I'll presume the former. Go out on the street, walk into some game stores, and ask people if the Atari Jaguar is cool. They'll say no. That does not mean that you and I, and all the other Jaguar fans don't think it's cool. I think "Motorhead" is a cool band. However, they're not number one in the charts because the majority of other people don't think they're cool, poor misguided souls who are living under a misconception. On the subject of cool, you may not have noticed that Lars, Matthias, and others, have posted both source code (not Atari source) and projects that need input, to their web-sites. Lars has a complete CD of stuff. He created a nice Breakout / Arkanoid project, publicised it widely, and got only one response to a request for new level designs. Requests for music and graphics help from other developers are widely ignored, unfortunately. The opportunity for Jaguar fans to have a forum for giving feedback on home-brew Jaguar projects is the point of the Yahoo "Jaguar-Homebrew" group that you joined and quit, it has an archive of Underground projects and tools, plus comprehensive links. How about a home-brew project from you, to join the freeware collection, with source code included too? Yes, let's agree to start the discussion here, in several new threads, just please don't let previous arguments colour the technical discussions. As I say, please start the threads, they need YOUR credibility, nobody is going to follow-up a thread I post, after all, my reputation here now is only for having started a massive flame war by inadvertently throwing stones about E2PROM development at you, for which I've already apologised. (My frustration over E2PROM standards progress can easily be resolved in a healthy new public discussion on this board, and I'll be happy.) Regards, Richard / JustClaws.

During the last days i tried to find a point where all the trouble started, and i think it might be this posting. You know, somebody always has to throw the first stone, and i guess that Doug thinks the above statements were such a stone. And he began to throw back .... Well really, if I had thrown a stone, it'd be big, and would not go far! As it was, no stone throwing was intended, but I do admit frustration! I guess the bold bit could be misinterpreted - SORRY THUNDERBIRD! However, the bit in italics above surely would tell you I am hopeful. I'd just love to see some progress, the UGD standard has been "on- hold" for many weeks, pending your input on compatibility with BSG. If two versions of every game have to be produced, so be it, but that is not a safeguard to EEPROM saves, people will run the wrong one... Well you know Matthias the discussion started about the Protector SE 2K EPROM (and other 2K E2PROMS) long before Scatologic released BSG, but the problem was this was in our "secretive Underground". Of course had UGD-JAG known about BSG, or Thunderbird have been able to find the Underground mailing list maybe all would be well now. Well I am glad that some discussion has resulted between Scatologic and UGD-JAG members on this, if this is our only conversation forum, but I am still disheartened that all we have achieved to-date is a long list of problems, and not a single positive move towards a solution... It's Nick (Stone) I feel sorry for most here, getting thrown back and forwards across this discussion, I hope he doesn't get injured here. Regards, Richard / JustClaws.

Well the thing is that we are a group of individuals working on our own projects, for fun, not for profit, and I really don't want to do the job of "marketing" the Atari Jaguar as a development platform. The "web-ring" nicely links active developers, that enough for us. You and Songbird (as publishers) have real reasons to do marketing! You sell JUGS as the "first complete development system" (I forget, does that mean you sell it complete with Brainstorms "Mac", "ALN" and so forth?) and I think people finding that, or "Jag Development Club" or the new "JagDev.Org" or other sites will find what they want. So??? Does this mean we should drop the Jaguar, and go out to buy ourselves a Dreamcast? I develop for the Jaguar because I like to do so, I bought the devkits because I wanted to, even though doing so was costly, and I continue because the Jaguar is fun and my main games platform, even now. (I also own 2600, 7800, Lynx and N64, so you can see I'm not a die-hard Atari fan, but why must I upgrade?) I'll probably still be writing games for the Jaguar in another 7 years time, if my equipment keeps running, even if I'm ALONE in doing so! (I bet I won't be.) I don't need to impress people, I develop for fun. Did you read my first post in the discussion about why most amateur developers these days do not talk about their projects. Please do... In fact, you said YOU develop in secret, and gave various reasons... There are Jaguar development boards out there if you look. However, the fact is, who cares? We're happy chatting together, as friends, and helping each other out. Nobody is "marketing" the Jaguar. It's not a cool machine, we're not "in it for the money", just "in it for the fun". If a Jaguar fan wants to start developing, that's much more sensible than an existing developer looking around for new platforms to port their projects too. If they're so keen to do so, they'll do so anyway! Regards, Richard (JustClaws)

Hello, Now I can see some misunderstanding... This group was started with the EXPLICIT purpose of being a low- bandwidth group intended only for announcements of new Jaguar home-brew games and tools, and for minimum discussion between ordinary Jaguar home-brew players and Jaguar developers. So in that respect I think it is fulfilling the stated objectives admirably... It is NOT, and NEVER WAS intended as a Jaguar developer forum!!! Well the group is for developers, and does not "advertise" anything, we're not selling anything, or boasting about our work. One of the self-imposed rules is to keep the group "hype free" generally, as Jaguar fans we've seen enough vapourware come and go. We are not a team, we are just individual developers helping each other... Nobody competes with each other, and membership is by invitation. Well on that note, if you follow the web-ring, you will find who are the other Jaguar members, and you will find out about any projects that they are willing to talk about. Incidentally I also asked if maybe Scatologic would have a web-ring link, and you referred me on, but nothing ever came of that. Now you maintain it, and BuyJugs is now no more, perhaps you could add a link to the Scatologic site instead. Regards, Richard / JustClaws.

Can you give me any example of what has been leaked in the past, as I am not aware of the "Underground" list ever being party to information from you or about your projects, either 1st-hand or 2nd-hand. As the information is about leaked information in the past it cannot now be secret and I could then identify these supposed bad apples we have. I would be pleased to hear an elaboration on this, and we can take your input even now, after all we already suggested the "TINY" slot that could be subdivided by you at your pleasure for these tiny save projects. Well you know how to communicate with us, you know that all of the known developers are in the group, only the secret developers working with Scatologic are not. You've been invited before and turned us down. Well I'm been part of the same active UGD-JAG group since about 1996, and you've never joined that group at any time, I'm not sure what you did join but it wasn't the UGD-JAG group, and that group has only moved twice (by group member consensus) twice over that period anyway. As to being disused, how many hundred messages per month are required, if up to 20-30 a day is disused, then it is. However, whenever anybody has a question, or a problem, everybody helps them, friend to friend, and constructive criticism on individual projects is always given. So you mean that you won't ever agree to work on compatibility with the other developers that exist now if it is based on this standard, even if the reserved space is made for these various unknown Scatologic projects? To me your specification is fundamentally flawed, and handicaps coders. Team is the point, your posts about "sides" are unfortunate as at the end of day we are coding for an old machine with limited resource, because it gives us pleasure, and that is why a solution has to be open to everyone. Well you indeed describe a group which has no relation to that which I know. I have known the members in most cases for years, and what you describe about private dissatisfaction about the group agreements suggests that you are talking to people that are not even IN the group. In our group everybody can voice their opinion without any back stabbing. Well please substitute the words "learn about" for "investigate". If there is a new standard agreed with you, privately discussed, I'd like to learn about it so I can modify my code if that proves beneficial. I'd like to learn about things that the "top developers" (who are they?) have discussed. Regards, Richard. (JustClaws)

Hello, > Regarding the EEPROM. I'll never quite understand it but for reasons > known only to them, the underground chose to go in a completely > different direction before, during, and after the release of Battle- > Sphere Gold. > Well let me explain. As the Underground developers had talked about future cartridges using larger E2PROMS in future cartridges for some months, (in fact years,) before BattleSphere Gold was released, and nobody realised it would have a bigger E2PROM too a standard was created that everybody in the Underground agreed, "by consensus". Fortunately Scatologic's system will easily work as a "subset" of the UGD-JAG method, providing that Scatologic agrees to cooperate too. > Nobody in the underground ever bothered to ask about our standard > and never bothered to contact us regarding development of a sensible > and practical standard. > Well this is due largely to the fact that you do not communicate with the Underground group, it would be nice if there was a "meta group" which combined discussed between the UGD-JAG members, those "mystery" developers working Scatalogic, and Scatalogic directly, because the "underground" teams don't hear any communication. Your "standard" was created in isolation by Scatologic unfortunately without consulting any of the Underground developers - not me, or Krunch, or Matthias, or Bastian, or Starcat, or Sinister, or Mr.Well, or Scott, or Force Design, or BadCoder, or any of the rest I think. These people had input to the UGD-JAG ones, and many others... I think perhaps you are confused about who the Underground are, maybe you think we don't like Scatologic, if so, you're very wrong! > This is an ongoing background project. Several ideas have been > discussed, and consensus with some of the top underground dev- > elopers has been achieved. > This is interesting, I hope that these "top underground developers" communicate the nature of the "consensus" to the UGD-JAG group very shortly, in fact I've kicked off a UGD-JAG thread to investigate. Regards, Richard. (JustClaws)

Hello, > So far, no homebrew CD games have come out which make use of > the EEPROM to save games, so it's probably not a really important > feature in the current situation. > Well I can think of (counts on fingers) 1,2,3,4, maybe 5/6 projects ongoing with by Underground programmers that support the E2PROM. Protector SE and the B&C bypass (with E2PROM fitted) can be easily supported, as well as using a "spare" production cartridge with BJL, as a "save cartridge". (You put one cart aside per UGD game...) The 2K E2PROM of the Protector/SE and BS/Gold is supported, in some cases, but in each case people have coded for 128 bytes, just like the production carts, B&C bypass likewise with 2K chip. The big issue at the moment for Underground programmers is how to support BattleSphere Gold cartridges when the Underground had an already agreed system for allocating space on the 2K E2PROMS, but Scatalogic has another approach incompatible with that system. It is a pity that compatibility may be lost due to that disagreement, when the UGD system was agreed by discussion, and not dictated. I hope that discussion is ongoing out of our normal forums on this. > Because the B&C cart has no EEPROM, I'd expect that most dev- > elopers will always have to have a backup system like a password > or something to avoid having to support EEPROMS that many people > won't have. > From the projects I am thinking of, they all support E2PROM and I am not aware of anybody having coded password based systems for save-game, because everybody hates that system as used on games like Telegames/Teque "World Tour Racing", it's impractical. Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, There are a surprising number of projects "on the go" at the moment, but the thing is that everybody is reluctant to say anything about them because of the following few problems. a) Everybody announcing anything gets flamed as a "fake". b) Anybody announcing anything gets flamed for being slow. c) People releasing demos get complaints if it's not "64 bit". d) People releasing demos get very little, if any user feedback. e) Nearly everybody wants everything developed to be free. f) Lots of people think that Jaguar programmers should work full-time on their projects, and give all their efforts away. g) Anybody selling anything gets flamed for "taking advantage of the market" when in fact they're just recovering costs... h) Nearly every ROM is now dumped and pirated for emulators, and people doubt that they will ever get any decent returns. i) All the game demos to-date have been labelled P.D. when in fact they are not, other people redistribute them for profit... j) Many people want commercial quality projects as bit and as completed as BattleSphere, but want them now or yesterday. k) People want games to run without modification, or extras. That said, I'm both working on code still, have been since 1995 on and off, and I'm helping others both by play-testing and also by contributing bits of code and information as the case needs. However, don't expect a BattleSphere from me any time soon! I'll need at least 15 years, because there were 3 programmers working on BattleSphere, for 5 years, and I'm working alone. Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, > Yeah sure I want to play doom, just come this weekend to 'Schiphol > Airport' in the Netherlands and I will be there to get you and I will > drive you to my house where we can play networked DOOM the > whole weekend.... let me know.... > So how far are you from Schiphol airport? I'm in Noordwijk area... I've not played network DOOM in a while, do you have an M series Jaguar, I've found them MUCH more reliable, and I've got Jaglink-2. Also Aircars and/or BattleSphere would be an option, what say you? One week-end we could indeed do some Jaguar net gaming perhaps! Are you up for helping me organize the next €JagFest if Lars can't? Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, Surely you need two Scatboxes, or a Jaglink, or a Jaglink and Jaglink-2? I know that the Scatbox is good, but I thought you only get one in a box? I'm still saving up for one though... Regards, Richard.

Hello, Actually, head over there, small changes that are keeping the board as the easy access board we all know and love, but which will give us all a gradually nicer environment, are under way, right now... to address the big problems! In order to provide a better environment for JI2 users whilst still providing the easy to access environment for JI2 users, profiles will be available in due course. This will allow you to have a profile page, with a post code, that will display you as a "registered" JI2 user. Such users will have their names highlighted, even if they do not give an email address, it should help us. Additional views of the board will be available that can filter out non-registered users and those who do not provide an email address, and the blocking of the users who spoil the board for others will be logged. An additional option is frames, these have been long in coming, but you will be able to see a frame view if you want in due course, but it will not be default. I've read the various messages that people have posted over the years on this board, and hope that these new changes that are in testing now will make the board a nice place to frequent, whilst keeping the easy access. It will still look and feel just like the same old JI2 too!! It's always here... http://www.atarihq.com/interactive/ Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, Jaguar Interactive II is back, the hosting company has fixed the CGI-BIN operation, but unfortunately not the FTP access so AtariHQ cannot do any updates, but it's most of the way! Cheers, JustClaws.

Hello, I just thought I could clear up one point of misunderstanding. > I find the RS232 Port to be very interesting. I know the Catbox > has one but I haven't heard what it could be used for. In the specs > it says the port is used to connect a PC, Mouse or other peripherals. > Sounds very interesting. > The serial port (RS-232) is actually a feature of the Jaguar chipset, but the signal levels for RS-232 are different to the of the Jaguar itself, so the Scatbox will provide the appropriate RS-232 levels for compatibility. Atari Jag-Link, and Else Jag-Link-2 do this too. I believe the Catbox also provides an RS-232, if Scatbox does. The original BattleSphere cartridge uses the Jaguar serial port to talk to a PC to send screen shots, and to load home-brew games and demos. The actual "enabler" provided by JUGS (which is the cable adapter and software for the PC, and the special software only built into BattleSphere and BS Gold) connects to the Atari Jag-Link at the Jaguar end, so RS-232 is quite popular already. This means that any peripherals that would be created to plug- into the Jaguar using an RS-232 port (and there is no reason why a normal modem cannot be connected- it's been done...) will also work with the other devices opening a wider market. So... thanks to Scatbox users have more choice, and when or if anything is released to connect to the RS-232 port (beyond another Jaguar with a Jag-Link,) then users have more choice!!! (Finally, there are Underground demos which already use an Atari ST mouse with the Jaguar, and code has been published among the Underground developers to do this, which is nearly the same as supporting a rotary controller. These devices of course plug into either Jaguar joypad port, or a Teamtap...) Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, As I'm helping AtariHQ sometimes, I know what's wrong here. If you prefer a technical explanation it is this... Somehow, the hosting company has screwed up the (UNIX) UID permissions on the server, and the AtariHQ no longer corresponds to that of the files, or vice versa. The scripts and the data are all just fine, but until the hosting company sorts out their mistake, then the server will not be able to execute the posting scripts... If you prefer JI-II style paranoia and conspiracy theory it is this... Government forces working with leading Jaguar developers have decided to take the unprecedented move of hacking the AtariHQ servers so that nobody else can flame them, or advertise their competing products, say insiders. Others claim that Underground forces have taken the board down in order to stop publicity for popular new Jaguar products. Insiders working with Sony and Nintendo deny links with them, but they would do wouldn't they. If you prefer a ridiculous by science fiction explanation it is this... Due to the very large number of flames posted to JI-II in the past the temperature of the servers providing the service has risen to such a level that the tachyon based cooling systems which control the nuon emitters for new messages have broken down. Once a new supply of Vogon quantum limiters arrives, this will be fixed. Whatever you believe, check back soon, they should fix it soon... Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, Since I only got the game a few days ago, I've not had much time to play it, I was initially disappointed that the music was just the same as used on some Atari demos, and that the sound effects (and expected NBA-Jam style special effects) were missing, but it plays well, even though everyone walks like in "Keystone Cops". However, the really big plus point for me was when I discovered the TeamTap support, I had read before (and the manual says) that it is not supported, but with a TeamTap this game really is even more useful. I've requested this morning to let me update the manual for this game, or get it updated, it's a good release. 60 out of 100, bearing in mind it's unfinished. I do not have Protector SE yet, but Protector is nice, but not a game I play too often because I find the gameplay balance to be a bit off, I'm hoping that Protector SE addresses this better. The sound and graphics are OK, the music grinds fairly quickly. 75 out of 100, for Protector, I'm guess 80 for Protector SE. Phase Zero was a great work-in-progress, and I would love to see this released if Carl ever gets the source sorted out. This game, despite Thunderbirds repeated slamming of it, in my opinion would have been an A-grade Jaguar release if it had been finished. It shows enormous potential just as the release, and the sound and graphics are just excellent, voxels, superb! This scores easy 70 out of 100, bearing in mind it's unfinished. JustClaws.

Hello, Sorry about that, but if you see no action after 2 years again, please try again! The files were actually safe and sound on the Yahoo groups Jaguar-Homebrew file area, under JustClaws though. As I said, I fixed the links on my site now. If you know of any other such problems, (binary wise), then please let me know, I'll fix them. Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, Sadly I never received an email about these missing files. I do try to monitor my bad links of course, but well, I miss too many. The files are available now on my site, and also via the Yahoo group jaguar-homebrew, I've posted the URL on my site here. http://justclaws.atari.org/devcats/dostools.htm Sadly I no longer have justclaws.co.uk which is referred to in the code. If you just run the DOS exes then they provide help. Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, To me this hotel and location looks pretty good. I don't know Hornchurch, but the description sounds good, especially the free bus and proximity to stations etc., and the free parking. The room rate also looks good, weekend rates being good. I would definitely find this a positive proposal, I hope the conference room rate is not prohibitive, it looks promising. Regards, JustClaws.

Hello, I attended the first €JagFest, Matthias Domin and I drove up there together, and people travelled from around Germany and Holland, there were no British people there except me. About 18 in total... I could not attend the second €JagFest in 2001, but I remember that the first day was similarly attended, very few people stayed for the second day, which Lars and I had hoped to be a dev day. There was no €JagFest 2002, Lars and DVD were too busy with life in general, and no suitable small venue could be found. The plan is to have an €JagFest 2K3 though earlier in the year though. I would love to travel to the UK for a UK Jagfest, but unless it's somewhere practical for travel from Holland, (read cheap, like accessable from Stanstead - very helpful with the budget air- lines for travellers from around Europe) then I can't attend. If I'm in the UK then I'm in the north-east. Birmingham a no-go for me, sorry. London / Stanstead area would be preferable! Cheers, JustClaws.