dino999
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Posts posted by dino999
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What could the DC-DC be doing differently that causes this noise?
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13 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:As for the parts...this is what I mainly use for most consoles. It is the Traco Power brand 1-2450 DC-DC converter:
They cost much less than they used to several years ago when I first did this on most of my systems. Back then it was more like $12 each vs the just over $6 they cost now. The one posted above takes voltage inputs from 6.3 - 24v and outputs 5v at 1A.
Another benefit of using one of these, is that due to the increased efficiency in how these work, the actual consoles end up drawing less current from their PSUs than normal. In the case of the Atari 7800 it is nearly 100% more efficient from the PSU. This means the PSUs will run cooler as well in my experience when they are in use under load.
Traco! That's it. I recognize the name. The modder wrote or talked about installing them into all his consoles. It's horrible about the noise issue. I'll have to research if that can be eliminated. So these DC-DC switching regulator don't need a heatsink. Neat.
What other consoles did you replace the voltage regulator with the DC-DC switching regulator? Did you have any issues with model 2 Sega Genesis (if you tried those)? Was it only the model 1 Sega Genesis and TurboDuo that had noise issues? When you state "logic noise," do you mean that there is fluctuating voltage along the circuit and that is causing the issues? This may seem obvious, but could that damage some of the chips or other components?
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On 5/1/2020 at 8:20 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:Only thing I can think of, is that it wasn't the caps that ran cooler, it was likely that the guy you read up on was changing out the voltage regulator with a small DC-DC switching converter as those generate little to no heat but are much more expensive on a per part basis than standard voltage regulators are. I actually did this with most of my retro consoles sometime back and even offer it as an option on systems that I service for those that want to spend for it.
Were you the guy who posted the article or videos? If so, I'd love to have the link. Either way, could you give me some examples of the parts I would need or those you would recommend?
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Years ago, I ran a search on NES gets really hot after playing (or similar terms) when I noticed the back-right section which takes in power gets really hot. I came across a site, blog, or video about a guy who was going through all of his consoles and replacing the capacitors with a specific type of capacitor that was not the cylindrical type.
I believe this guy replaced all of his consoles with capacitors that are box-shaped. He tested the output and reported they were running cooler and I believe drawing less power. I wasn't handy with a soldering iron then so I bookmarked the site and moved on or so I thought. I can't find the bookmark to the blog or video series.
If anyone knows what website my failing memory is bubbling up, I would like the link. Does anyone know of capacitors that run cooler than the typical cylindrical ones? I may be conflating two memories, but I think they were similar to those in this Vectrex cap kit: https://console5.com/store/vectrex-integrator-cap-kit.html
I remember the guy removing shielding from the power area of the NES and other consoles, stating it wasn't needed with these types of caps because they ran so cool. The site or videos has to be at least five years old. I think I discovered it between in 2011-2014.
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Just out of curiosity, what happens if you try and adjust the contrast setting on your TV? Honestly the image while very dark, does look pretty clear otherwise for RF.
It seems strange that I didn't adjust the default TV settings for the coax input. Most of the other games I own have a discernible image. My Atari 2600 is even more clear and bright on the same input. Nonetheless, I still feel silly that I didn't try it.
I increased the brightness from 50 to 80 and now the image is good. Hnh, I didn't know the bases in Space Invaders have a shifting rainbow pattern. Neat.
I still think there is something weak about the output given the 2600 looks great at the default settings.
You may want to experiment with adjusting the color delay resistor. I’ve circled this in the photo below.
Can’t hurt to dial through it, maybe it’s out of phase and artificially dark. Otherwise it’s likely transistors/resistors which are failing...
Try tweaking this adjustable potentiometer and report back!
Could this brighten the picture? What does it actually do to the components? Does it cause some component to draw more current?
I know I may be stepping ahead, but could replacing the voltage regulators improve the picture? In my search for info to help with the repair, I found this video where the voltage regulators and their heatsink are removed and replaced:
I only ask since I remember reading something about a faulty NES voltage regulator (same type used in the 5200) causing some similar problems.
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Have you tried tuning the RF modulator to match channel 3’s frequency?
What is your video like on channel 2?
I am using the female phono jack to male coax adapter to connect to my TV. I tested channels 2, 3, and 4, using both circle and square settings of the switch on the back of the system. The video performance did not improve.
Here is a screenshot of Space Invaders. Click on it to see the extremely large original image. It's very dim. You can barely see the last row of aliens. Forget seeing their lasers. They're lost in the ether.
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My two-port 5200 has a weak video signal. Besides the static, it's so dim that I can't see some images in games like enemy bullets in Space Invaders. Does anyone have any recommendations for troubleshooting? Would composite or s-video mod bypass any problem this RF video is having?
I've already swapped A5 (GTIA) and A3 (ANTIC) with known working replacements. They didn't change anything.
I took pictures of the board here --> https://imgur.com/a/QOO9QoW
Here are thumbnails. Click on them to get a really big picture to open in a new tab.
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Awesome. Thank you. Do I need to use heatsink clips when soldering in replacements?
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I'm still looking for answers. I thought you could determine where those parts are located on the board due to their proximity to the A26 chip and power LED. I could post a wider shot of the 5200 motherboard if anyone needs it.
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I need to replace the two parts indicated by the yellow arrows in the picture below. Yes, I realize the A26 chip is wrongly oriented.
To be more specific, I am referring to the turquoise and mustard yellow parts. They are some type of capacitors, correct? If you know the type and specifications of each, please be specific when describing the parts I should get.
Also, should I use alligator clip heat sinks when soldering in the replacements?
Link to full resolution pic --> http://i.imgur.com/dJmLSgI.jpg
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Whether the system boots or not is an obvious indication of a replaced chip's functionality. However, I've read (as SoundGammon stated above) that your system can boot yet have problems with certain games caused by certain faulty socketed chips.
These are the games I currently own: Berzerk, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Pole Position, River Raid, Space Invaders, Super Breakout.
What should I look for when booting each game when determining if a chip has faults? For example, if the POKEY is bad, do ships in Space Invaders move strangely? If a memory chip is bad, is Pac-Man a garbled mess of pixels? These are just fictional examples, but I think you get the point.
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I removed the controller port cover. I think I noticed the two tabs / catches you mentioned. One is just below the 5200 rainbow logo and the other is just left of the power button. Is that correct?
I'm not sure how I would pry them away from the console. They don't look like they fit into a gap on the plastic. They look fully exposed. Also, it looks like prying them might chip the surface layer of the silver bezel. I do have thin flat head screwdrivers that I could use as levers. Is there any pressure / levering I need to do on the left and right sides of the silver bezel?
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I am not sure if this the Atari 5200 system bezel is glued on or locked into place with tabs. Is it possible to remove it for cleaning then replace it without damaging it or the system?
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I've got a working 5200 (yes!!). I have several of the socketed chips (memory, ANTIC, GTIA, etc.) loose in unknown working condition. Will popping them into my working 5200 possibly cause any damage to the other components in the system? I thought I could test each of those loose chips.
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I know how these things work. I've been on both sides of these cases throughout the years. What I was commenting on was the fact that the opening a case interface had changed. When opening a case now, it says "Request a return" rather than simply "Open a case." I'd rather communicate with the seller via e-mail first to resolve issues and get a partial refund via the Paypal order itself rather than simply opening a case and hope that the seller chooses to offer a partial refund and select an amount which is satisfactory to me. I understand you may not be familiar with the new case layout as it has changed within the last half year or so.
Either way, this is far off topic. I'm only concerned with getting a pic of the power / volume button in its off position so I can be sure that with the amount of force I exert to secure the button, the shaft and its connected internals won't be damaged.
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And remind them you get a full refund if the item arrives damaged and you open a case on eBay.
There would be no need for a full refund especially since ebay pretty much forces the hand of the buyer and seller to return an item if a case is open nowadays. Ebay has changed their case system. Now it tells the buyer to request a return (an implied outcome) instead of just opening a case (a neutral term). The seller's options seem to be more disturbing, locking them into a one-time partial refund offer if the seller chooses that option or locking the buyer into returning the item if the seller chooses the option. I'd rather resolve everything through e-mail before opening up a case. There was no malcontent or deception here.
Save2600 brought up a good point. I've thought about how you would even ship a Vectrex safely. This seller could have used more foam. Even then, the CRT is still suspended by brittle 30 year-old plastic. I'm thinking you would have to ship it face up and stuff the inside of the case tightly with plenty of newspaper or foam to prevent any movement. Face down might seem an obvious choice at first, but an impact on the bottom of the box (where it's facing) might cause damage to those screw mounts more easily. It's a good question nonetheless.
I have to fix the harness. That takes some effort. I'm considering getting something like JB Weld for plastics to maybe enhance the Loctite super glue I have. It may be an unnecessary step, but I'm worried the CRT might drop during play.
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Mine is missing that interior red-colored half moon piece. On the top side, there is a mark pointing to the outer edge of the knob. Where does it point when it is attached and the system is turned off? You could also take another picture in the off position.
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The back side of the knob is just a cylindrical hole. It does not have the same semi-circle shape as the post unfortunately.
I do see two triangular prism shapes running down the inside of this hole and I would bet they have something to do with staying latched onto the post, but I have tried pressing with some strength with it rotated in several positions and the knob just won't secure fully. I don't want to press too hard and break something.
There is a mark on the top side of the knob used to indicate where it is pointing. If someone can tell me how that is lined up on theirs in the off position, I think I would be set.
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Yes, it's perfectly normal for a Vectrex to be harmed in transit. Almost doesn't matter how well it gets packed either as they'll still find a way.
Thanks, you smart aleck
Discharging it the fast way with two screwdrivers became less frightening after reading this article written by some professor at Stanford University:
http://lowendmac.com/2007/the-truth-about-crts-and-shock-danger/
I have another question.
I was cleaning the system and detached the power / volume knob to clean around and behind that area. Re-attaching it is giving me issues and I don't want to press to hard. Any idea how I should line the knob up to the post on the system before pressing the knob back onto the post?
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Something that frustrates / confounds me is that the person who sold it has owned it since 1987. He scrawled his name and high scores in all the manuals. Something that survived this long got destroyed in a two day trip across the US.
Regarding discharging, I've seen that page but I've also seen this post on AA ( http://atariage.com/forums/topic/125974-safe-way-to-discharge-a-crt/?p=1523047&hl=discharge ) as well as a much older post here which states that I should use a discharging probe which has integrated resistors ( http://rec.games.vectrex.narkive.com/y4RLshi7/someone-who-has-re-capped-a-vectrex ).
It seems like doing it the simple way with two screwdrivers can damage the screen coating and the ability of the monitor to hold a charge. I haven't done circuitry math since high school. Would the following work?
Using three screwdrivers, resistors from my radioshack, and some loose wire stripped at both ends:
First screwdriver, touch gold-colored metal box at base of Vectrex.
A wire stripped at both ends wrapped around metal shaft of first screwdriver, the other stripped end wrapped around
a string of resistors twist-tied together.
A second wire with stripped ends wrapped around terminal side of string of resistors with the other end of second wire wrapped around metal shaft of second screwdriver.
The second screwdriver touching third screwdriver metal shaft.
The third screwdriver wedged underneath the cup on the backside of the tube
Large diagram (click on the picture to enlarge it)
I don't have gator clip jumper cables and my Radioshack (RS) does not. I am unsure which resistors to buy (again last time I did on paper math with voltage, resistance, etc. was high school). I have the following links to RS items which are in stock. My plan is to buy one of these packs and twist tie the resistors together.
5-Pack of 1M ohm 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistor
OR
5-Pack of 1M Ohm 1/4-Watt Carbon Film Resistor
OR
I assume I need two of the following since the post I referred to said I needed ten 100K resistors.
5-Pack of 100K Ohm 1/4-Watt 5% tolerance carbon-film resistors
OR
Again I assume I would need two of these
5-Pack of 100K Ohm 1/2 Watt 5% Carbon Film Resistor
If stringing together five of the 1M resistors would work, I guess that would be easier.
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I just bought a Vectrex. The shipper placed two thin layers of bubble wrap around it. I was surprised the thing arrived without some giant crack in the case.
However, as I examined the screen, I noticed the top end was leaning further back than the lower end, creating a gap between the case and the top end. Is this normal?
While unboxing the system, I found two small loose pieces of black plastic that had broken off of something. I looked all around the console and found nothing snapped off, even nothing behind the controller.
I did not power on the system yet, nor clean it up. I had planned to open up the back and dust inside while avoiding the monitor since I do not have and resistors or gator clips with wires to properly discharge it. Now I fear I must discharge it properly if these two pieces somehow held the monitor in place. Damn't!
I attached a few pictures. You can click on them to get a bigger view. The two small pieces of plastic appear in the lower right corner of the first pic.
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Bumping up. Any update on confirming replacement of the CD4013 is absolutely necessary?
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You posted previously that you're getting a black screen. If the system does not read a game, then the logic is not functioning. Or, are you just testing power-up without a game inserted then?
Also, not recently, but when I tested without a game, all the RAM read as 0v. I am assumed this was normal as the game ROM was not loaded into memory.
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When testing voltage of the chips, I insert a game, but I do not hook it up to a TV. When hooked up to the TV with a game inserted, I get a black screen and no sound.
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Replacing NES Capacitors with Those Which Run Cooler original nintendo caps
in Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) / Famicom
Posted
Is this RF interference? If so, could you build some sort of shielding around the DC-DC to prevent the noise?
Yeah, the more I've soldered and de-soldered a point on a board (any device or component, not specifically Sega Genesis), I've noticed there was a tendency for pads to flake off. There might be a way to fix stuff like that, but I'm not that experienced.