Mr SQL

fsuinnc, I think you have an awesome idea about a Flashback that includes homebrew games! I've suggested as much to Atari in this story, Working for Atari in Contemporary Culture: http://atariage.com/...porary-culture/ Atari has gotten better with each successive Flashback (other than moving to emulation) but is still experimenting with doing things like putting different versions of some games on the latest Flashback instead of the Atari 2600 versions and breaking the feel of their paddle games; Homebrews are a great idea and more marketable IMO than either broken games or games from a different system because they have that 2600 feel and play like genuine Atari games. Of course an Atari 2600 with the Harmony cart is probably the best solution for playing all of the homebrews, and the classics

Retro Rogue, insightful commentary from Washaw, enjoyed reading! Seems Warshaw is reiterating that he told Spielberg "No, I'm sticking with my idea to build something creative and new" and again repeating that in retrospect it might have been a better idea to stick with formula like Spielberg had asked for. You are a good writer and really creative but I think you are viewing this through rose coloured glasses, or at least a turquoise tinted visor I like the drama scene with the Indian reservation and the continued emphasis on timeframe - there must have been a trace running! That angle doesn't really work though does it? Washaw is a great programmer and clearly had plenty of time to add cut scenes and a really cool title screen in lieu of utilising that time to focus on gameplay. IMO Yars Revenge was an awesome game but ET and Raiders were not easy to play thus the issue with the fun factor, for most. There was a definite disconnect with Warner and Nolan's vision of easy to play, difficult to master. Agree the hyperbole and drama are fun: Washaw got a flat tire... an old friend came in from out of town... there was just 1/2 a pack of cigarettes and they had to drive 200 miles to Chicago hand debugging a perforated continuous feed printout with nothing but a piece of charcoal, pitted from the rain and worn smooth with grooves where the programmers fingers clutched the coal. The rain beat down melodically on the windshield with the fury of a thousand water droplets, each one tinkling rythmically in synch like an effervescent mindstorm of binary operations conducting an unseen symphony in Warshaws mind.

Great thread! Interesting stuff

Cool, I'd like to hear more of Howard's perspective (try to see if you can get more than a single quote). 9 months is really stretching it; this is largely variable. Consider that some developers could do it in a few weeks working around the clock. I was kidding about using a Joystick and two paddles, but less time is all the more reason to go with a more simple formula design that's easy to play; giving the developer a lot of creative license is better for less high-profile games; win/win - great if you've got a hit on your hands but you don't take a hit if the game tanks. IMO another hit was just what they needed and they knew it hence Warner invested a lot in that high profile deal with Spielberg; I think if Nolan were on board he would have canned the difficult-to-play game in favour of Atari formula (Tank, Pong or Pacman type game). A deal that big is actually a good argument for parallel programming where two developers (or groups) work on the same project so that management has a better chance to pick a killer app; IMO Warner was really lost without Nolan.

Yes that's what Warshaw said too, that he was going off on his own: In retrospect maybe I should have done a pacman type game like Spielberg wanted instead of coming up with something creative and new. Did you have a different interpretation? "Time alloted" has little to do with Warshaw running off on his own despite that you keep bringing it up; Washaw didn't bring this up above, he just reflected that maybe he should have done what Spielberg wanted instead of running off on his own to do something creative and new. It's been my observation (and experience) that coming out with another awesome game increases a software company's sales of their existing Video Games too (marketing momentum). This is hard to debate (many have observed); do you have a counter-argument? The reason time-frame is a red-herring is because Washaw already established that he had decided to run off on his own to come up with something creative and new; it's unlikely that more time would have led him to return to Atari's mass appeal formula (pacman, Tank and Pong games) but more likely to have resulted in creative and new control schemes like using a Joystick and two paddles to control the character

Retro Rogue, you had said Howard wasn't given creative license to design something other than what Spielberg wanted - now you agree with Howard and say the opposite; there's no disagreement because you've changed your mind I have a different perspective here; I think that's exactly what happened and that the memo you've cited is only reflective of market demand and not the close corollary you suggest. To stop producing PacMan merely means sales have dropped, not stopped (there was plenty of inventory). The argument you would actually need to support here is that releasing a fun and easy to play version of their highest-profile game yet (perhaps a pacman type game like Washaw might have done if he could do it over again) would not have had the opposite effect and revitalised sales of other hit games thus in the process, marshalling the sales of many more pacmen. IMO that is the close corollary and you've a tough counter-argument to make here, but I think it would make for interesting discussion! btw I like your book and just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I find your work any less entertaining!

Retro Rogue, I checked up on this and it seems Howard Warshaw disagrees: In retrospect maybe I should have done a pacman type game like Spielberg wanted instead of coming up with something creative and new. https://en.wikipedia...ial_(video_game A lot of people dump on Pac-Man's flickering ghosts today but in contrast to ET everyone liked it back then - it was fun and easy to play. While initial sales of ET capitalised and rode on the wave of Pac-Man's commercial success as a game that met Nolan's criteria for fun, the shockwave from ET hurt additional sales of Pac-Man (Atari might well have sold 12 million instead of 7) and also hurt the rest of Atari's games as well as the industry at large. As Buyatari pointed out on the If ET was redone thread, ET involved a gargantuan distribution deal that encompassed all of Warners massive marketing clout in tandem with the Motion Picture Industry. Dan, I think the magnitude of that deal makes ET more than just one nail because it magnified the impact.

Here's a summary of the feedback I'm looking for on this thread We're all familiar with how using Nintendo Technology (NOAC) to create replicas of classic Atari games turned out, but more recently Atari's modern gaming studio advisors suggested that Adobe Flash can be used to create exact reproductions of Atari classics and that similar modern game kits should be used to deliver Atari's retro gaming experiences on the phone and modern platforms. It seems to me that games built with Flash and other modern development kit just don't have that classic retro feel and twitch response gameplay you get from Atari 2600 games. I'd like to hear more opinions from players and Video Game authors here at AtariAge! Should Atari continue to listen to these ideas or are they just likely to lead to chapter 11 all over again? And a more specific question for retro gamers playing on the phone: which kind of retro game do you have more fun playing - the retro renditions built with Flash and modern kit, or retro games built for the Atari 2600?

Dan, all excellent points! Matches well with my experience from the timeframe; it was indeed Atari's market to capitalise on or lose, and none of us in the industry could believe Atari had transitioned from a Video Game culture of Easy to Play, Difficult to Master under Nolan, to Warners loss of vision regarding this (seemingly simple) model - I think the disconnect was so great as to cause the excessive anti-Warner attitude you encountered.

Retro Rogue, "talking like you have no familiarity" seems a bit condescending like your comment to "use the search function" considering that I was on the scene writing commercial software and Video Games, while you literally had to use the search function Didn't Spielberg talk about being initially skeptical and having wanted a pacman type game in interviews? From the other thread, the rumor that Scott was related to Warner was something Video Game authors and Software Company owners discussed during the timeframe after watching and analysing back then; we all looked up to Atari as the leader and pioneer in the field. Perhaps the answer isn't that easy; having worked for Atari and Nolan recently it seemed clear to me his opinion was stifled a bit as an advisor. That is quite a different position than he had even under Warner which in turn was different than what he had at the helm - you can't ignore those differences because they change the equation. I'm curious to hear Dan's thoughts as well.

I think Dan is right on this; the market was "easy to play"; Spielberg new that and he didn't get what he wanted - a pacman type game that is easy to play Instead the developer got creative license to come up with something that just wasn't easy to play; that's why it got returned in droves and served as an example to many independent 80's Video Game programmers and Software Companies (not just mine) of what not to do. Questions for Dan - did your perception and experience at the time differ? Do you think Nolan would have let that game out of the gate if he had still been running Atari?

Crazy Climber, that's an awesome book and I enjoyed the preview enough I've been planning to order it! I'm similarly inclined and also tremendously inspired by Atari; now and way back then when adopting their strategies helped me launch a Software Company in 1984 But elucidating beyond "No" would only be more interesting since it's clear Retro Rogue indeed has access to a vast repository of Atari knowledge; sometimes developers have more fun putting on aires than sharing knowledge - one word responses are usually indicative of the latter (LOL Retro Rogue, last response I received from you was use the search function! )

How do you know Retro Rogue?

I wonder if there is anything to the rumour that Warshaw was related to a Time Warner executive...

This looks really cool Joe, particularly drawing curves! Looking a the copyright date it seems part of the advanced kit Atari came out with in the late 80's like the Macro Assembler Tom had pointed out; I wonder what later games utilised advanced tools like these - I was thinking maybe Solaris but it's too early, '86.

Thanks JamesD, I will give that a try! I'm also going to try replacing the power supply for the drives since I've been using the same one for all 5 drives and they all whir and light up but I don't hear the tripple characteristic head banging the CoCo always does on init. Seob, I know how you feel; I destroyed my PET with the built in tape dec trying to hook the monitor up to one of my CoCo II's back in the 80's; partially burnt out the VDG on the CoCo and fried the pet. Before that I got the display almost working - everything but the vertical sync (tiny crushed image at the top of the screen). I think Commodore's dedicated monitor circuitry for the Pet was non-standard.

That's awesome Loon! Your retro game for the Genie was seriously retro and one of my favourite on the platform (can't wait to see the new build) IMO that's because you understand retro and you're also using the right tools - I think retro developers using BASIC and Assembly have the right kit and tend to have the right mindset too while gaming studios with their time driven profit driven investor collapsing culture are invariably using these lightweight OO scripting languages that are great for getting games out the door but seem to create fake plastic games that lack playability when it comes to retro; it's like there's an impedance mismatch between modern developer mindset and retro, and with modern kit and retro. What kind of kit is out fo Ouya? I'm hoping there's a Tiny BASIC implementation but suspect it's something modern and harder for classic retro.

Keatah, those are all excellent points! I gave Atari advice along those lines and so did many others; to their credit you'll see they were trying in the story - getting Nolan back and sponsoring retro development was the right move. The trouble was in the implementation and modern software houses (gaming studios or whatever they call themselves) had too much influence, effectively crashed Atari's retro party.

OK here's the story first; it's collaborative so I made a seperate thread http://atariage.com/forums/topic/213077-working-for-atari-in-contemporary-culture/

Working for Atari in Contemporary Culture Writing Retro Video Games for the Atari VCS What follows is a story of modern retro detailing the recent work I did for Atari writing retro Video Games for the iconoclastic console of consoles, the Atari VCS, and for the equally iconic Pong Legend Nolan Bushnell himself. And, the fortuitous circumstances by which it came about! This took plenty of time away from lucrative SQL contracts but that didn't matter, it was something I always wanted to do since the 80's and everyone here, will fully understand Enjoy the Tale Download and read this interesting story! Working for Atari in Contemporary Culture.pdf Let's help Atari Then add your insight, comments and ideas for Atari; there's a blank section we're going to fill out together to help Atari be Atari - strategies of trying to be Zygna or Facebook gaming obviously didn't work for Atari, but Atari fun and moreover Atari Brand Recognition is ingrained throughout modern culture; Atari will always be the King of Retro - let's help them ace the Flashback 5!

Very cool to have the C64 setup on your desk Serious! And I hear you about the job thing but some times you can combine them I have a breadbox 64 with the High Voltage SID collection on flash that I listen to all the time in the office when I'm coding. When I'm at a clients office I bring Rockbox (the open source firmware for mp3 players) with it's TinySID emulator for traveling OS9 is technically excellent but I was never much impressed by it on the CoCo; IMO the gold (and the gems!) is in that massive base of RS-DOS ML and Extended BASIC retro software. I've got a 512K CoCo3 with an IBM keyboard from Cloud9 I've been tinkering with trying to get any one of the 5 drives I had in storage to work but no dice; the CoCo is one of those interesting machines where I want the legacy hardware instead of a flashdrive - I need to pick up a new drive and a CoCo 1 or II!

This is awesome cncfreak! I just logged in, checked out the Ultima downloads... playing Colossal Cave right now

Serious, agree on the VIC being a really interesting machine though I think the C64 and the A8's really ruled the 80's. The CoCo (1 and 2) had a lot of gems and a ton of awesome software and was tremendous fun to program both with it's rich BASIC dialect and that 16-bit 6809 with it's verbose instruction set There is an active homebrew scene for the 3 but I don't really consider it an 80's Computer because it didn't come out until 86 and then it took another year to figure out the GIME with it's 8K bank switching blocks and poor emulation of the 6847 VDG and SAM literally killing the CoCo's best semigraphics modes. IMO a lot of the top coders just wrote better games with the VDG but you're right there were some really good looking games for the 3; Gauntlet II rivaled the Genesis Gauntlet IV version (without the music) and was graphically stunning.

LOL RT, that looks like the Fairchild Channel F!

Have to agree about the buttons on Jr detracting; I prefer my Vader but that being said I'm on the lookout for a 6'er because it has more switches on the console Noticed something weird about the RF between the Jr and the Vader though; I can't tell the difference with a tube Television but on my Plasma set the Jr creates a band of white fuzz in the top 1/3 of the screen that renders Defender and some other games unplayable (not a problem, the Vader is on the Plasma and the Jr is in the basement with the CRT); might have to do with the Plasma NTSC being "supported"/emulated rather than having a genuine electron beam.