Marius

Why is that? Do you have a better advice for me? I have (quite some) experience with Atari Basic, Turbo Basic and Assembler (6502). So what is a logical step to do some coding on Mac/PC?

Hi all, If one would like to learn Python and one comes from Atari 8bit it would be handy if there was a list of the Atari Basic commands and their python equivalents. Does such a list exist? And if yes, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Marius

We have finally a score that we want to share. But as said, we are not so thrilled about this game. Somehow the game controls feel too sensitive. Anyhow, we are proud that we have a score to present. Daughter "Dinky2008" 11300 points And me, Marius: 24600 points We play Atari every night, and we always started with this game, but we decided to wait for round #2 for now. Let's see what round 2 will bring us! By the way: we play Joust together a lot, which is awesome in a co-op mode.

This is true, and I must say... using a modern LED/TFT screen is not helping either. Some people might say this is nonsense, but it is true. There is some (very tiny) lag between what you see and what is happening, and just those timing things you are referring too, are just making this problem harder. I will try to play the game with an old fashioned TUBE TV. I am sure it will get better then.... Am I the only one who noticed this issue with modern TV's? I also find it happening with other timing critical games.

Well, yes... but we have The Arcade joysticks, made by Suzo. Which are pretty equal to Competition Pro (in fact better, in my opinion). They also produced the joysticks in original Arcade cabinets. They work with microswitches as well. But somehow the game does not feel completely in control. But I will keep exercising. I think the HSC is always a good reason to practice on a game!

Thank you both for your answers! very interesting! I am testing in Turbo Basic for the 2nd run, this time it is at 34724th result, and the "5" is again pretty much behind (about 1400 less than the max. threw result) ... I will keep testing this.

Hi all! After years of absence I am trying to do some (turbo) basic coding again. I was trying to create a dice game, but I was doing some experiments by creating a proof of concept first. Now I did run in something very strange. I simulate a throw of 5 dices (just like in a Yatzee game) and I wanted to see whether all numbers (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6) are facing upwards in a (rather) equal amount. So after more than 20.000 throws (23176 to be more specific, which was simply the moment I paused the process), what is the frequency of every "number" that has been thrown. I did let run the Atari for a few hours, first in Turbo Basic and then, same routine in Basic. I was surprised by the difference in results: TurboBasic: Atari Basic: Sorry for the Dutch language, but the pictures mention this: After throw 23176: Turbo Basic: 1: 23560 times f. most 2: 22858 times b. 3: 23290 times c. 4: 23488 times e. 5: 22537 times a. least 6: 23323 times d. Difference between result "5" (least) and "1" (most): 1023 Smallest difference (33 times) between "4" and "6". b-a: 321 (difference between result "2" and "5") c-b: 432 (difference between result "3" and "2") d-c: 165 (difference between result "6" and "3") e-d: 33 (difference between result "4" and "6") f-e: 72 (difference between result "1" and "4") Atari Basic: 1: 23152 times c. 2: 22884 times a. least 3: 23414 times f. most 4: 23371 times e. 5: 23040 times b. 6: 23195 times d. Difference between result "2" (least) and "3" (most): 530 Smallest difference (43 times) between "6" and "1" b-a: 156 (difference between result "5" and "2") c-b: 112 (difference between result "1" and "5") d-c: 43 (difference between result "6" and "1") e-d: 176 (difference between result "4" and "6") f-e: 43 (difference between result "3" and "4") The routine to find random numbers: X = INT(RND(0)*6)+1 My questions 1. Who can explain the much more noticeable difference between Turbo Basic and Basic. I mean: there is still quite a noticeable difference between the most frequent and least frequent result in Basic (530) but this difference is almost double the size in Turbo Basic. 2. Is there a better alternative to the routine I used? I am looking for a routine that will generate a number: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 where every result will have (as close as possible to) nearly the same frequency. 3. Is there a chance that this is really a random coincidence? I find it hard to believe, since I stopped it at 20.000+ throws. But perhaps you have experience with this subject? Thanks anyway! (Meanwhile I will do a few more runs, perhaps I get completely different results).

My daughter and I have been playing this a few time, but we are not so happy with the controls. It feels slightly too sensitive. In many games when you die, you absolutely got the feeling: ok this was my fault... but in Donkey Kong Jr. it feels that 50% is due to the controls that are too sensitive. I also remember this from playing the (pretty cool) game Mousetrap. Is it just us, or are more people having all kind of frustration with the controls in Donkey Kong Jr.?

@therealbountybob Is it okay that my 14 year old daughter joins the HSC? She will use the name Dinky2008 ... I will post her scores too and specify which one were her scores and which one were my scores. Is it okay?

I hope I will find time and peace in my mind to join this. Would like to be part of it again.

I might join again for a while. My top 10: Random Order: 01. Midnight Magic 2600 version (port phaeron) 02. Stampede (port phaeron) 03. Seaquest (port phaeron) 04. Crossfire 05. 2048 06. Millipede 07. Assembloids XE 08. Space Harrier 09. Donkey Kong 10. Mr. Do I know many of these games were in past HSC rounds but I really like these games.

It is amazing that today there are still books made about our amazing computers. I am really positively surprised that you took the time and efforts to make this book. Thank you! Do you know how accurate the information on Amazon is, when it says that there will be no custom fees to be paid? Does this mean that when I actually order the book, that not suddenly the mailman tells me that there are custom fees to be paid? I might order the book. It looks great (I am not having an issue with the font either, by the way!) and it's something that would be great next to my Mapping the Atari and my DE-RE-Atari (and more books). But I am currently pretty low on cash, so I do not want to have to pay custom fees. I hope you know more about that.

Yes. I also had 2 XF551's that didn't want to write either to the B-side. I am not even sure (can not remember) whether it wanted to read B-sides. I purchased special floppy disks with 2 index holes for that XF551. Then it worked perfectly. I still regret that I did not buy more of those floppy disks.

I have been a fan from the SIC! Carts from the beginning. I have really a lot of these coole carts. The later versions did have gold plated contacts, which are highly appreciated by me. I am under the impression that the newest Sic! Carts on the website are no longer with gold plated contacts. Is that right? I might be interested. Very cool project, still!

@rensoup Thanks for the detailed reply. I will stop the discussion here, also to prevent that what you write (going in endlessly). For your information: Pbi is NOT an OS hack. It is stock Atari OS compatible stuff. It's there since XL/XE OS Rev. 2 (1983). The reason I stepped in this, was because you felt the need to call FJC a troll, which was misplaced in my eyes (I explained why) and then the discussion moved towards XBios. You have made your point of view clear, and so did I. Using Xbios can be a life saver as you call it. I tend to agree on that. But it has next to that serious downsides. I wished a normal conversation about these downsides was possible, but I am probably too much. (I mean: in general, not specifically in this thread). My problem with how discussions go, is that sooner or later, it results in some kind of flame war or it is turning into a win-or-lose battle. And that is horrible. I leave it here. I am glad your game runs from cart. It's a great and awesome game. The port of PoP is a fabulous achievement, which makes me an even more proud atari 8 bit owner. Your game demonstrates the power of the machine and it is so much fun! Thanks a lot.

Hi rensoup, thanks for the reply. You sound annoyed. I understand that, it is all slightly overheated. I am not talking about high-speed. I am talking about compatibility. In general I dislike software that is hard coded on some kind of hardware, which rules out the use of other configurations. Just like fabulous DOSses who do not see a PBI device, because the I/O is directed over a hard coded, custom Siov/Ciov. I think the Atari has a beautiful and well designed central IO system, and I simply encourage every developer to rely on that and to stay away from (exotic) solutions that bypass this architecture. . Even HighSpeed Sio has solutions that are not by default needed in the software like the game, DOS or Xbios. I suppose that most people who rely on high speed sio, also do have some kind of hardware solution (like an HS supporting OS) that forces their device into high speed sio. I have not checked this, but it seems interesting to investigate. What you say about put your money where your mouth is, does not apply here. People who mention a complaint or a concern, do not by default have to be the same people who fix the issue. That sounds a bit harsh to me too, if I am honest. I suppose you do not mean that people only are allowed to have a critical discussion when they also code the software? Aren't we here to discuss things? Now I got honestly the feeling that every critical comment about Xb is seen (by you) as trolling. I was and am serious about this. In general I always have the opinion that software should run on stock hardware. In that light respecting PBI and stock OS vectors is more important than supporting high speed sio. Why? For high speed sio an external solution is there (in the form of a custom OS that forces high speed SIO, and other solutions exist too). Both existing devices and high speed sio devices are neither stock atari hardware. So going after supporting High Speed Sio is a choice, but not one that respects the stock hardware. You are -of course- free to make any choice / decision you want. I only use a stock 800xl (with the only tweak is a +5v added to the parallel bus). My atari is as stock as possible and I use an IDE+ 2.0 hard-drive. My turbo freezer (also externally) provides the extra ram. But the Atari is stock. I totally agree that you should not make the game need 256k or more. In fact, if you would stick to cart, 64k or perhaps even less should be enough, but I understand that would mean a total redesign of your game. To finish: I love PoP, and I appreciate the fact that you also created a cart version. Although I am usually the most happy with something that runs from PBI HD, I also like the fact that the game runs from my TheCart! I also love Stunt Car Racer, and although many people here are negative about XXL (for some reasons I can understand completely) my concerns and criticism on Xbios is based on legitimate reasons I explained here and in other threads. It is not bashing or trolling. And it has nothing to do with XXL, although the way he responded to my posts here in this thread is illustrative for how he seems to talk about this. Pity. My advice not to use Xbios is because it rules out the use of way more hardware than the -as you call it- schizophrenic setups. And I am sure if one would proactively do some research about more this, more people than you might expect will express that they do have complaints or hat they wished the amazing stunt car racer would run from PBI HD. But I admit, no research about that done so far.

We will probably welcome Ukrainian people in our home. They are very kind and grateful people. I do not want them to go to a special refugee camp. I would like to know them better, and support them. So I let them stay in my home. We will live together for a few months. It's the least I can do. I will show them the demo you created. I am sure they will be amazed that such an old piece of computer technology will play a demo in favor of their country. This demo means a lot to me, and I am sure it will mean even more to them. Thanks again!

What me surprises the most is that I found some CMC tunes I created 15-20 years ago. They sound really awesome to be honest. So first I should try to get to that level again.

I wrote: ... so that PBI works as expected. <- this is keyword 1 that you have missed. I MIGHT <- this is keyword 2 that you have missed rephrase my opinion. Keyword 1: As expected means here: that your xBIOS runs from HD, so as soon as a developer has used it (like in Stunt Car Racer) it runs from HD. If it does not run from HD, Xbios does not run as expected. Keyword 2: I have said, I might rephrase. I did not say that I would rephrase. I knew already that you couldn't make the promises about Xbios come true. So my final comment about this: Provide a fully working version of Stunt Car Racer that runs from PBI, and I will (yes WILL!) rephrase my opinion.

I always keep my word, but I asked you to provide a working ATR of that game. You have not asked me what I mean with "as expected" ... Well with "as expected" I mean that the full version of the game like Stunt car racer works from PBI. When you hand me that ATR, I am more than willing to rephrase my opinion. You have my word, and I do not take that back.

@xxl So provide a fully working ATR of Stunt Car Racer that runs from PBI.

Games which are created around the XBIOS system do not run on a HD. Perhaps with heavy tweaks and losing functionality. I am not afraid of xBios, I simply do not like the system. Just like I am also not the biggest fan of SDX. When you create an xBIOS that simply works through the OS Vectors, like CIOV etc. so that PBI devices do work as expected, then I might rephrase my opinion. Till then, my serious advice to all developers: do not built your software around xbios.

Hi All, Not long ago on of my Dutch Atari friends asked me whether I was willing to compose a new song for the atari 8bit. I love that. I have been not so active with composing for atari 8bit lately. I want to gain new interest in this part of the hobby. Now my question is this: for me is composing on the atari an important part of the joy. That means that RMT is not what I am going to use. I want to write, edit and play the music on real Atari 8bit hardware. For me that is part of the fun. I know there are quite some composers. I only have experience with Chaos Music Composer. I know, when you master this program, you can create very nice and decent sounding songs. There is way much more possible than the most CMC-songs. But still... I am wondering: are Theta composer or Music Pro Tracker really better? And do the player-routines of Theta and MPT consume lots of CPU resources? I know CMC is pretty easy on the Atari when it comes to resources. It plays in a single VBI. What I am looking for is a program that makes it easy to write music. Perhaps I stay with CMC, but something inside me tells me that I should try another composer. I have asked this before. But I am now also seeking people who can me help with this. The music itself is not my problem. I graduated from the Conservatory of Rotterdam (Codarts) and I am a professional musician, arranger, teacher and composer. So I only need to learn how the atari part works. Thanks Marius

When this device will see the day of light, I would most certainly be interested. But... I really hope it will have -just like the Turbo Freezer 2011, and just like the black box- a button that make the atari stop doing everything and let the user jump to a menu. So the user can make changes, like mounting/demounting another ATR, or swap drives... and then return to the program the user was running.

Come on guys. Let's keep our heads clear. There is already enough fight in this damned world. First of all: PoP is great. I have been playing it for a while, and it has been a while that I was so thrilled about a port. Rensoup did an amazing job on this game, and I can not thank him enough for that. Negativity throws a shadow on that achievement. So please. But on the other side. Rensoup: FJC is most definitely not trolling. I know him quite well, and if there is one single person in the atari 8bit scene who knows what he is talking about, then it is FJC. You can not simply respond that he is trolling, or that it is all because of his hardware. No. If you would dive into problems with high speed sio, you will notice that even on stock hardware this already can give all kind of problems. Did you ever try to use, let's say SpartaDos 3.2g with built in high speed sio, whilst a VBI timing critical thing was running (like TD line). Most of the time SIO hangs once in a while during a singe boot. On stock hardware. What is here to blame? Well I do not want to blame anything, but when you want to resolve this, you look at the software side, not hardware, since you only have influence as a developer on the software side, and not on the hardware. And since you bring up XBIOS. As a die hard atari 8bit fan and user, I can say XBIOS has a few positive sides, but I would no developer seriously advice to use it. Why? Because it is simply not compatible with the Atari architecture/eco system. Take that other amazing game, stunt car racer. Due to the choice for XBIOS, it does not run from any PBI device. And then one can say: well... it runs from stock hardware. Didn't atari add PBI as a stock functionality to their machines? Almost everybody today seems to have some kind of PBI device. So from the bottom of my heart I can only say: forget XBIOS. It's no good in this light. I really try to be a kinder person. Especially here on AtariAge. And I have to admit, that there are absolutely examples of my post which are illustrating that I dramatically fail in the attempt to be a nicer person. Sorry for that. FJC is not a troll. Why... because I say so? Haha no... because what he writes can be verified by facts. Please take some time to check these facts, and you will be amazed.