ParanoidLittleMan

I was writing about that Quick ST crashes when changing res. You need to disable it's install after boot with key N (when text about it appears), then set wanted res and Save Desktop. After that may reboot with Quick ST active.

Solved that ROM disk is Z: - and that's good because P is then usable for hard disk partition (and that's last letter with regular TOS) . It needed some changes in GEMDOS/filesystem part of TOS, mostly changes from 16 to 32 bit operation, buffer. So, here is archive with 2 IMG files. One is with Tempus and Quick ST. Other is with game Missile Command . Both work in color and monochrome mode. Missile Command is squeezed from org. 188 KB to 60 KB with good packer. 162TMMC.ZIP And this includes automatic icons for partitions C-L on Desktop improvement, + crash fix for text mode displaying of large files sizes (over 10 MB) . I opened new thread about possible larger space in TOS ROMs, where can have larger ROM disk, for instance.

Title means TOS ROM expansion, so this is not so much about expansion of TOS self, but ROM space expansion. What of course can be used for expanding TOS self (and it is done actually in case of TOS 2.06 in ST machines - 256 KB instead 192 KB) . I started to thinking about this reading suggestions in thread about what to put in TOS 1.62 free space. And got e-mail few days ago, about this: http://ultradev.ultrafex.de/ultraTos.html It works by copying TOS from EPROM in high RAM, relocating it ... I talked in reply about that it's better to keep TOS in ROM address space, so it takes no RAM, and so is more compatible too. Things are that there is space from $E00000 (TOS ROM start address by STE, Mega STE and in case of 2.06 by STs too) . Up to $FF0000 - where HW registers are. And there are 32 pin EPROMs available, which can fill that space (2x 8 Mbit), for not much bigger price than 1 Mbit (128 KB) EPROMs, used by STE, for 2.06 . Not full 2 MB is usable, because mentioned HW registers, but it is more than 1.9 MB, so plenty of it. With one thing to mention: it conflicts with standard IDE port address, which is at $F00000 . Then can go on 4 Mbit EPROMs, what gives 1 Mbyte space. Or even possible to skip that area around $F00000 (like 1 KB) . And I don't think that there is much people with IDE adapters. Of course, some additional logic is needed for it, but that's like 1 GAL, or some CPLD - cheap for sure. I worked last days on ROM disk for TOS 1.62 . There can be max some 74 KB free space (after optimizations, packing RSC data), without removing anything from TOS . And there can put some shorter SW, runnable in usual way. I have now working Tempus and game Missile Command (C+M) adapted for ROM disk, and solved that it be Z: instead P: - after some extra changes in TOS disk code. That's good, because P can be hard disk partition (last one, 14-th) . Will post it later in 1.62 free space thread. Much bigger space for ROM disk will allow to put some larger SW, or more of it there. And of course, it can be packed. Since there is practically no SW (Except TOS self) made to run from ROM, it must be anyway copied to RAM (even TOS copies some own parts in RAM), so then why not pack it ? For instance I squeezed Missile Command's 188 KB into 60 KB. I guess, this can be useful rather for people without mass storage. So, it can be in 2 32 pin EPROM or Flash EPROM chips, which may go direct in TOS ROM sockets. Plus logic for extra address space decoding - that needs to be connected to some address lines of CPU bus, and surely can be solved with 1 GAL. Surely possible to do as some board, what goes between CPU and it's socket, or some other chip - depends from model, mainboard revision. And it can be used as TOS switch - then some jumper would determine will it work as linear address space of larger size, or using just section on usual TOS address space.

Interesting .. Actually, lot of devices - with some programmable chips need some serial connector for perform it. Even UltraSatan, for instance - firmware writing. Well, I guess, that lower speed is not problem then, so some of us can use Atari ST instead PC+USB to Serial for that 😄

Looked around about popular utilities for Atari ST, considering file sizes, and for instance STZIP is just too long for this. KKommander is nice utility, but too long 2 . But Kobold2 seems to be OK (good and fast file copy tool). There are some disk editors of small size, like CHKDSK3 . Here must say that file sizes don't reflect capabilities of SW well. It depends a lot from coding style, language, compiler (and I would add lazyness and not caring about how much RAM, disk space it will use) . I really don't like for instance how Xcontrol is solved - some trivial task modules are 10-s of KB-es, while whole thing can be solved with proggie of 200 bytes. ACC is nice thing, but it takes RAM, so should load only if really need it.

Serial port (RS232) is really something outdated, well, long time ago. Only reason why someone wants to use it may be having some device with it, and wants to communicate, transfer with it and Atari ST. And even speed of 307 Kbps sounds as slow now - some 35 KBytes per/sec - about floppy speed range. Of course, real thing why only few people cares for serial port on Atari now is that you don't have where to connect it. Well, could use something like RS232-USB adapter, I guess. But then, why not go with PARCP, USB version ? Or NetUsBee ... Btw. as I remember, there are some HW mods/hacks to make Atari ST serial port faster. That needs for sure some SW/driver too.

Right click and some other ways are not easy to solve/implement - would need serious digging in C source files - and for 1.62 they are not available. Following code with machine code tracer is very hard, especially when it is done with C compiler. Plus, I don't think that we need some new ways of launching APP. TOS has good ways. Yes, best is to do it in usual way - double click on executable in drive window, or Options, Install Application - associate file extension with certain APP. So, I made new build, with Tempus in ROM disk P, and there is Quick ST too in TOS ROM. 162PPXQ.ZIP It is UK 1.62. PP means partition P extra, Q is for Quick ST. First idea was to put ROM disk as Z: , but it works not, there is plenty of 16-bitness in TOS, even if drive bits system variable is 32 bit long, only 16 lower bits are really usable (that's the reason for 14 partitions limit too - A + B +14 (C-P) = 16) . So, ROM disk is at P, and there is Tempus (SFX packed). You can run it from there, or associate extension, and then will start when click on such file (like *.TXT), and load clicked file, open it in editor. I think that it is pretty good, even for 2021. There is Quick ST, activating at AES start, and can be disabled (mentioned crash by res. change with it on). And I implemented drive icon improvement for Desktop - with this icons for C-P will show if there are such (logical) drives (partitions). P will for sure. Talking about case when no DESKTOP.INF file in boot disk root. If there is such, then will show only icons what it contains (may check with viewer/editor).

Color/palette changing during line loads CPU heavily, and then SW will work much slower, or just will not work at all. It is worse in medium than low res. Really don't see why 16 colors for this ? Amiga works slower with more colors, higher res. - then CPU must wait more for RAM access, because RAM bandwith is not enough for video and CPU at full speed.

I tried it little, works without those 2 files, and pretty fast. Was long time ago when I used it (little). Adding that edit button would be not easy, and may confuse. I think that found solution how to run program(s) placed in free TOS ROM space. From ROMdisk Z - normal partitions go C-P, so later letters are free. Then APPs there can be associated with file extensions in Options, Install Application . And of course can start program in usual way.

Looked Tempus, UK version by Hisoft. It's not long, and can fit packed in free space. Don't see are files PRINT.SYS & KEYSYS.INS necessary for basic work (no this names in exec, so don't think that it loads them automatically) . Of course, it needs to be started somehow, and I'm on to add new menu item for it. Worked on, but it will take some time - need plenty of changes, since TOS code for Desktop is for 4 menu items, and don't like adding new stuff. Maybe some hotkey would be simpler .. Or maybe that it appears as cartridge APP ?

Hmmm, this is for STE, not for ST. ST TOS has no free space for adding diverse SW. Otherwise, text editor would be really useful - if someone knows something of small size, pls. name it. I think that Unzip with those supports will be too long for this. Btw. just solved something what annoyed hmm ... maybe millions of Atari users 😄 : after boot with hard disk/Flash card, Desktop will show not only partition C , but further ones E to L . Of course, if they exist. Max letter is P (as there are max 14 partitions what TOS can handle) , but there is no space for all it in low res. And I think that 10 partitions are enough for regular usage. Price: 256 bytes more RAM used, about 100 bytes more ROM used.

Reset button needs to be opened (not short cut) for normal work. Only when is pressed it will give reset signal to CPU and other chips, via that LM chip. So, you need to check with voltmeter, ohmmeter is there shortcut. And voltage on reset line, what is normally high, only low for short time after power on (that's what that LM does) .

Usual page layout by adapted games is: Title, screenshots from running game in original res. , game box scan (and that can be really big if is in good quality, sharp), then YT video. In this case I used Jaguar box scan - that's closer to Atari ST. And I think that all it is based on PC Wolfenstein, since it was first done for it. To add that user can set active screen size, with smaller it will be smoother (better fps), of course.

Well, there are OSes placed in ROM, and there are OSes which load from disk. ROM space is limited. What you listed contains some shorter and some longer SW. Diagnostic will not fit for sure, and that's not of frequent usage. What can fit is text editor, disk driver (already present in some versions), calculator ... Disk compression SW is now totally obsolete with current prices of storage. Not even from disk. Blitter on/off is present at TOS 1.02 . Mega STE cache, speed setting can be solved with really short code. And I just worked today about adding some new items in Desktop Menu, Options - can do it with RSC editors (after extracting them from TOS), but that's not enough that it appear - there is some data in code too, and it needs more work, tracing ... Ah, and in case of ST, STE ROM and RAM work with same speed, so shadow to RAM will not make it faster. Instead it packing is what is really useful. So, you have PRG, code in ROM packed, and depack it in RAM, then execute there. And additional benefit is that SW written for working from RAM (self modding code) will work without changes that way. I used this already a lot. For instance Quick ST packs from 26 KB to 7-8 KB.

Some 6 posts upper I talked about it. Original uses about 32 KB RAM, but if removing code and data part for case when it runs as accessory, it will be 26 KB, and that's OK by me.

Yes, I examined Warp 9 couple years ago, when started to deal with iTOS. It takes much more RAM - some 70 KB, and would take too much space in ROM too, with all it's options. Plus, I don't see that's faster than Quick ST. Maybe more compatible, free of some errors. Please folks, consider file sizes - this is for shorter things. TOS 2.06 Desktop with 1.62 is already done, I call it TOS 2.16 . http://atari.8bitchip.info/tosimav.html

Not sure that it is something of wider interest. Anyway, I can look it if you give me where can get it.

I made 1.62 with built in Quick ST. 7 languages are still there, and still some free space. 162M7LQ3.ZIP This can work on Mega STE too - added some code for that. About Quick ST: it uses lot of self modding code, + some tables are built at start, according to active resolution, so no way that it work from ROM. I shrunk it's size by removing ACC part - no need for it, and all accelerations are on, of course. It takes 26 KB RAM now. It needed proper disassembling, what took plenty of time. And sadly, needed lot of time to make it using really only +26 KB RAM. The problem is TOS memory management, what has some flaws - needed lot of tracing to solve not wasting additional 13 KB of RAM (something similar to wasted RAM by AUTO run). Now it works fine, and I tested it couple hours, in emulators and with Mega STE with ACSI-CD (PeraSAN) CF card adapter. Did not see some crashes, bad working SW. Only 2 minor flaws: not possible to change resolution in Options menu - will crash, as original Quick ST crashes then. So, if need med instead low, or versus, need to reboot, press N to make Quick ST inactive (and that might be needed for some SW, of course), then set wanted res. and Save Desktop . Noticed minor errors in high res. with my program FIRDC (file and RAMdisk compressor), what uses little trick with border of dialog for growing effect - then some lines remain undeleted - in color modes it is OK . Speed gain is really good.

Added 3 more languages - found 1.06 ES and IT, + 1.04 NL. RSC blocks are same in 1.06 and 1.62, and even from 1.04 is almost same, only some color palette data is little different (because bigger STE palette) . So, I corrected palette data, and all it works fine in 1.62 . 162_7LNG.ZIP So, now can use 7 languages: UK (default), DE, ES FR, IT, NL & SE . Still 35 KB free space. I found Quick ST 1.31 at atarimania. It is short, so maybe will be usable. About compatibility: accelerated VDI should go as default, and work as much possible from ROM - then it will be active always, and not decreasing free RAM significantly. Programs like editor, some utility should not run by default, but easily startable from menu, so will not cause incompatibility.

I looked about Harlek* at atarimana. There are some, all called Harlekin. Maybe all variants of same utility. It will hardly fit, since is on double sided floppy. File viewer/editor is good idea. And that should be not something large. I know rather some disk editors - they are rather binary/hex editors. Anything recommended ? But take care of size. Something with 500 KB size surely can not pack in 60 KB . Also, what VDI speeder you can suggest ?

That's already done in iTOS, together with making FAT16 filesystem better - instead max 14, max 512 MB size partitions possible max 30, 1 GB partitions, and with even less RAM usage. + other things, which work best via integrated driver (as I call it). http://atari.8bitchip.info/tosimav.html

There were 28 pin 1 Mbit ROMs in some STE machines, and same stays for ST (2 ROM variant) . Capacity of ROMs is always power of 2 (at least I did not see different in single chip) so, no 192 KBytes in 2 chips. It is 256 KB even in STs, only that 1/4 is unused. With EPROMs there are no 28 pin, 1 Mbit chips, because they need more pins (programming voltage, control), so it is 32 pins, and during read some pins are not used. I was on idea to add, or replace existing drawing code (VDI) in TOS, and looked in code of Warp. It uses plenty of RAM, I guess so works faster. And btw. TOS VDI works in RAM too, at least some parts. So, that would decrease free RAM + raise membot, what some SW don't like. So, surely only as option. I think that most important part of it is to select 'screen accelerator' best for this. Really not familiar with mentioned 2, so will look about. NVDI is out of interest - too long, and still copyrighted ? What else is made ? Ah, and since STEs have blitter, how big is speed gain in compare to speed of TOS VDI with blitter on ?

Sorry for my picknickness: folks, don't recommend too many games here, Hatari may break from too much weight 😄 I mean, it would be 'run on (or with) Hatari' . OK, some my favorites: Warhead - 3D space missions, realistic movement control Potsworth & Co. - Platformer with 6 large levels, diverse heroes Backlash - simple fun shooter Dungeon Master - No. 1 You can DL, see screenshots, YT videos here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd.php

TOS 1.62 is basically same as 1.04, with added code for handling STE extra HW. And because that, it did not fit in 192 KB space (how much it is in STs), but needed to expand it to 256 KB. And last 64 KB is barely used. There is 58 KB free space. Question is: what is worth to put there (if we deal with some TOS patching, improving and like) ? And actually, free space can be more if optimizing code, packing RSC data. More about it lower. I already put some games in that space. For instance Terry's Big Adventure fits there well (packed) . I came to idea to put Desktop and GEM RSCs for diverse languages in free space, and by boot select which will be active. So, here is 1.62 with 4 languages: 162_4LNG.ZIP Default is UK English, if press 1 when message appears De (German) will be active, 2 for French, and 3 for Swedish. And there is still 55 KB free space 😄 Well, not because those parts are so short, but because optimizations, packing. One lang. takes about 7 KB (not packed 16 KB) . I wanted to add Spanish too, but don't see 1.62 with it. And some by users done other language would be interesting, Eastern European ones, although it may need some new characters in font sets. I see only Czech v. of 1.62 . If someone knows more language versions of TOS 1.62, pls. gimme a link. Note that this is based on fact that TOS 1.62 copies complete RSC data in RAM from ROM, and therefore packing is well usable. 2.06 for instance copies from ROM to RAM only parts which may change, to save some RAM, so there it would be much harder. But anyway, in 2.06 is no free space for this. And as title says: if have some idea what is worth to put there - please write. Of course, taking care of space usage, and best if it is single file SW/PRG .

There are 2 of such DL-able: https://www.mediafire.com/file/hgkdnnwym334ilg/1000GamesT02.zip/file https://www.mediafire.com/file/77nh2flbsc4wqia/6PartGm.rar/file First one is done special for people with older TOS versions 1.00 and 1.02 , but works fine on newer ones too. Second one is for TOS 1.04 and later. Images are for UltraSatan in first place, but will work with GigaFile, ICD adapters too. And is possible to extract files from them. Not all HDD games are included, later ones not for sure. It is lot of work to put it together with some system, so new release will wait some months.