gliptitude

All of my recs are Game Boy mono. I strongly agree with some games already mentioned: Operation C Catrap Qix Kid Icarus Bionic Commando Gradius nemesis .. I wouldn't call any of these obscure or hidden, except maybe Catrap. But Catrap was revived in the Nintendo eShop. .. Operation C is a Contra game and one of my favorites. Not as difficult as the NES original. A few more: Marble Madness R-type R-type II R-type DX (both games on one cart) Sagaia ZAS Mole Mania These ones are really interesting but kind of unfair and frustrating to play: Altered Space Monster Max Castelian Marble Madness is really great and a pretty cheap game to pick up. It's scaled down a bit but this is a fun way to play the classic game. The two player game has an advantage over other platforms because each player has their own screen in simultaneous play, so you won't get lost if you are way faster or slower than your opponent. .. Qix is another good two player game. Eh? The GB version is almost the exact same game. The map and levels are basically identical and there are no gameplay elements unique to the GB version. Are you referring to the GB Color game maybe?

You are correct. The black and white KODAK TRI-X REVERSAL FILM, $21.95 at B&H is the one you want. The $38 B&W product would also work. The $15 ones won't work for you because they are only on spools, not super 8 cartridges. (I presume these are made to load on re-usable cartridges that were common in USSR and maybe Europe). The color ones won't work for you because they are negative films. Reversal vs Negative? I have already somewhat explained it, but it might still be confusing if you have never shot any kind of film (such as 35mm still photography). If you ARE old enough to remember when all photgraphy was film then you will remember getting NEGATIVES back with your picture prints from the photo lab. Negatives are used to make PRINTS. If you wanted to make more prints you could take the negatives back to the lab and they would use them to make new prints. Typical still photography film is NEGATIVE film. When you look at the processed film that went through the camera you see a negative image, an image where the things that were dark in real life appear bright and the things that appeared bright in real life appear dark. .. The print that is made from the negative could be called a positive image, bright is bright and dark is dark. Well have you ever seen a SLIDE? A slide was just a single frame of 35mm film mounted in a cardboard frame. To view the slide you simply shine a light from behind it, just like a stain glass window, or put it in a slide projector with a magnifying lens. When you bought a roll of slide film, took your pictures and dropped it off at the lab, you got the same film back (cut up and mounted in cardboard frames). SLIDE FILM IS THE SAME THING AS REVERSAL FILM. In fact some of the slide film stocks are the exact same film stocks they used for Super 8 movie film. It is simply cut and perforated in different dimensions in order to conform with different cameras. "Reversal" and "negative" are designations of the actual film stock you are putting in your camera, which is the same physical length of film the lab will return to you after processing. Does this make sense? .. I guess if you shoot negative film the lab will probably offer you a PRINT and they can probably skip the film print and go straight to a video transfer. .. In general negative movie film is more for professionals and you should use reversal to learn first. Also a large part of the fun is getting a roll of film back that you can actually look at. The Tri-X is a really great place to start. It was always the easiest movie film to use, even when Kodak still had their full range of products. There is still some stuff you'll need to learn, but less than if you use anything else.

None of the film frame rates divide evenly into any of the video frame rates, except for special (now obsolete) film cameras specifically made for television broadcasting. Motion picture film technology is a very straightforward mechanical process. Video is not. "Frame" and "frame rate" are very concrete concepts in film, much less so in video. The film is coming to a complete stop inside the camera every time a frame is captured. It is only moving (one frame at a time) while the shutter is closed. The projector does the same thing at the same rate. With video, and all electronic image capture, there is a scanning process and a corresponding drawing process when displayed. You are not consistently being presented with a concrete sequence of individual full pictures. There is overlap. TELECINE is the older technology for transfering film to video, and probably still the prevailing technology for consumer "home movie transfer". This diagram explains it: I used a semi-pro telecine machine to transfer some stuff a few years ago when the equipment was part of a free film workshop at one of the art museums in Los Angeles. There are also cheap consumer products sometimes called telecine that basically just use a screen to obscure the flicker while you record with a digital camera. I've never used one of those but i would guess that it will suffice for most home movie purposes and i am certain that some of the businesses advertising film transfer just use one of these, rather than real telecine.

If you are referring to the color super 8 films at B&H, it looks like those are all NEGATIVE films.

A single 50ft cartridge of Super 8 film is worth more than most Super 8 cameras. 50ft of 8mm film equals less than 3 minutes of footage when shooting at 24 fps. You also have to find a lab that actually still processes movie film, and pay them. It's encouraging to see that B&H has some Kodak Super 8. I'm pretty sure it is NOT still in production, or at least not directly by Kodak. Kodak made Ektachrome color super 8 movie film up until their bankruptcy. I bought a few rolls from them a few years ago for about $25 per roll. Now that (recent and refrigerated) stock is selling on ebay for over $70 per roll. .. Most of that stuff at B&H is probably not for you. You need REVERSAL film in order to yield an actual film you can watch. NEGATIVE film is a professional film which will yield a negative image which you will need to take to another lab and pay for a print on print film. ... That Lomokino does look neat! .. It seems strange though that they didn't use a smaller size frame in order to fit more in.

Rolo, don't worry. I don't feel ripped off or entitled to a replacement or anything. It just looks like your new board will allow more enclosure options, which appeals to me. You're right there is not much that makes sense with a postal exchange between Germany and U.S. Perhaps you could offer the new populated board (purchased) by itself? Would this save much? That's a nice offer Tony. If you are sure you want to do it then I'd be happy to go along. .. Would it be easier to just send the boards, or maybe they should stay together as kits? If I'm the only one who cares to upgrade and if Tony is willing to do this then there's nothing else to figure out i guess.

Shucks I think I prefer this new design quite a bit. I haven't assembled my kit yet. Is there a way to upgrade to the new board without getting a whole new kit?

Well I'll keep the vector games in a totally separate category, and I really don't think there is any comparison. I'll rate almost every vector game higher than almost every non-vector black and white game. So for best black and white games I'm going with NIGHT DRIVER and STARSHIP 1. I might prefer one of the Night Driver type games that preceded Night Driver: Night Racer, 280 Zzzap or NURBURGRING. But i've never played them.

Thanks for the answers Rolo. Yes by extra stick i just meant the plastic stick, not the potentiometer assembly. I might end up really liking the stick as it is but i wanted to try to fashion a longer one, which would be my preference. It makes sense for you to charge extra for extra stick(s), if it is something you are willing to do at all. At $3 or less i would buy two extra. $5 or less i would buy one extra. More than $5 i might just stay with what is in the kit.

.. Well I got 3D Sector-X and it seems to work just fine with the Madtronix Imager. I also patched the 3D Lord of the Robots ROM and it works fine as well. .. I really like the game so far. It makes me want to play Sectis again, although I think Sector X is more fun and nicer looking than Sectis. The 3D effect in this game actually to me seems less exceptional than the game itself and I even think Lord of the Robots seems more three dimensional than Sector X. .. But the game itself IS pretty exceptional IMO. And I do like the open ended puzzle aspect of it. .. There are some neat touches like how when you move to the lower level the thrust sound gets softer and quieter. This is as far as I have gotten as well. (I think anyone who has played Sectis and Continuum will make it this far after a few tries). .. I was able to inch off of the small square a tiny bit (slowly) without being killed right away, and the bird-fly-thing stops moving. .. So I'm going to think and experiment more before I try to look up the solution. .. I will say i've found it absolutely necessary to use the recommended color wheel (Narrow Escape/Crazy Coaster). The manual says that either wheel will work and that the game will detect which one you are using, but I don't see how this is possible with the equipment i am using and when i do try to use the Minestorm wheel almost everything is green. I suppose there is some sort of unique wheel registration in the original imager that does not exist in the reproduction?

Yes I had arrived at the word "rotary" eventually. Also "wafers" for the portion that would be different inside the pot. It's a lot to sort through and still haven't found exactly. Also i suppose the exact right part would depend on the particular joystick and mechanic i was trying to outfit, which I don't have yet. It would be nice if playstation or wii nunchuck could be used for experiment, and i have some of those. But they seem too small to successfully modify. I do think it would be cool to have a nunchunk permanantly modified for VCS. Or for Vectrex for that matter, maintaining analog. For Vectrex it would be missing at least one button, even if you kept the motion switch operational as one button. Many Vectrex games could be played without a button one or two though.

I think that this is a picture of the conductive/resistive element of a typical potentiometer: Retrieved from: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm The same page describes some possibilities for manipulating this portion of the component and reassembling the potentiometer for different results. Isn't it possible that this element could be modified and reassembled to produce an on-off-on switch? Maybe just removing the resistive coating and then cutting the copper at the peak of the arch? (And rewiring for Atari digital pinouts) Alternatively couldn't that one element be manufactured to that end with shop equipment suited to PCB printing/cutting?

I'm not sure I understand this, but I was hoping 2D in color was easier than 3D, and that programers might exploit it this way more readily than for 3D. The color aspect of the 3D Imager is very effective, and when you compare it to the color vectors of (Atari arcades) it is really special in my opinion, because the vectors are still perfectly smooth and not pixelated at all. I would imagine that a really awesome 3D game would be something like Web Wars, where there is already an inherently 3D image. But that's a lot of vectors. .. Sad to learn that 3D Imager games are necessarily going to tend to be more sparce, even if they are not 3D, and I wonder what that "completely awesome and essential game" could consist of.

Thanks for the review iesposta. .. I glazed over the parts where you give the solutions, (think i'll try to figure it out first) ... but you had me at "some of the best 3D effect i've seen in a vectrex game". Yeah and i haven't really been working towards a complete -- boxed -- collection anyway. But this was almost certainly the most valuable thing in my collection, and positively the most valuable thing i was at all willing to trade. this will probably be the last really big trade I'll be able to make. .. Sticking with the original thread topic, i think we are really lucky to have Madtronix and his 3D Imager so readily available. It is a really neat device. Of course the possibilities have only been hinted at with the small number of 3D games. But as more people are getting these reproduction models it is becoming much more practical for homebrewers to consider programming new stuff. I hope it happens! I will say that maybe it is not for the casual Vectrex player. There are enough games to justify its existence, but i think it either needs a higher volume of decent games or (better yet) that one completely awesome and essential game, to make this a really mandatory peripheral.

Thanks for sharing this. It is interesting and maybe a very simple solution. But it makes me nervous that there is no explanation of how it works. It looks too small to accomodate the electronics that others have prescribed so i would think that there would have to be something pretty special going on inside there for this to be legit. Plus there is no way this is compatible with EVERY 9 pin machine like the seller claims because not all systems have the same pin outs .. Unless it is somehow programmable, which again you would think there would be some expanation if it was. Still it might be OK with Atari though, which i guess is all i was originally asking about.

So is it probable that similar switches could be attained to swap for the pots in old PC joysticks, (along with a 9 pin cable) to convert for Atari? Or is this more likely a very rare outdated component?

Yeah you make sense but the wire colors don't initially seem to match. .. What would make sense and corroborate your assesment is if the BLACK wire is ground coming out of the cable lead, and the white one coming out of the lead is one of the direction signals. After the first black wire ground connection they used white wire to connect the other two grounds. Pretty simple I guess, just confusing that they changed colors midway and that the color they changed to was identical to one already in use.

I haven't got a meter and have never used one. .. If i did, would i be measuring voltage (with controller plugged into powered up console), and be reading a variable voltage IF it's potentiometer, but static if axial switches? When i search "axial switch" i am getting results that are potentiometers. Can you point me to one for reference, or is there another name to identify this? Here is a more explicit photo of the wiring: And here is a simplified drawing: I would expect more symmetry in the wiring of digital components, but I don't have a good grasp of this stuff. I presume the white wire is ground, since it goes to all three components. But the two (pots?) are wired differently and the one only has one colored wire to it.

Thanks for the replies all. I have one Imager but several Vectrexes, so I guess I won't let fear of incompatability stop me, since it is such a rare problem. Thanks for the offer Tony. I will keep in mind. .. I'm trying to work a trade and I don't know yet what the prospects of it working out are. Likely to include a boxed Polar Rescue if it actually happens, and I don't anticipate ever having another one of those in my hands again : /

Thanks for the reply Stephen. .. Based on your assessment it sounds like the easiest thing to do is just to follow the directions in the Apple to Atari project. But to clarify.. THE CONTROLLER IN THE PHOTOS IS ALREADY A 2600 CONTROLLER. I'm not trying to modify it and it has not been modified. It was originally intended for 2600. I don't have the controller open anymore, (could open again later) but I don't think there are any capacitors in it and I think that all 3 tabs of each pot are wired. .. I believe that The controller for the Vectrex console has 4 wires total connected to the two pots of the stick. There is one +5V that goes to both pots, one -5V also to both pots, and then each pot has a unique wire to its wiper. No ground. .. May edit this with time.

Excellent! Thank you iesposta. .. Would be interested in a brief review of the game too. How's the 3D?

It is not 32K. If I understand correctly, the cart has its own microprocessor which is significanly more powerful than the Vectrex.The Vectrex is mainly a display. .. Maybe it's a bit like a separate computer interfacing with the Vectrex through the cartridge port, but this computer is small enough to fit on 2"x2" PCB.

I'm considering making a pretty big investment in a copy of 3D Sector X, but I'd like to know beforehand that there is a high probability of it working on my hardware. I use the Madtronix Imager and I too had problems running 3D Lord of the Robots. I never tried the patch, (and don't have a PC at home ATM to do this, or even re-flash my cart). .. But with LOTR, is the real cart version more likely to run with this repro-imager than the ROM was? .. Will the 3D Sector X cart work on my set-up : certainly/probably/possibly? I can't patch a cartridge can I?

I love the feel of analog joysticks and thumbsticks, even when they are not functionally analog. VCS games are programmed for digital joysticks, but my go-to controller appears to contain analog components: The TG Enjoystick was designed and marketed for an assortment of machines that program for digital joysticks(?): (Image retreived: http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/508/retro-scan-of-the-week-the-enjoystick) ... How unusual is this? Are there others? Anybody else share this preference? Vectrex has analog sticks standard, but hardly any of the original games actually use the analog .. and the few that do are practically unplayable! .. Yet the stick is beloved by Vectrex gamers and there is no controversy about using an analog stick primarily (almost exclusively) for digital directional controls. Why don't we do this with the 2600? I found this old article for making a convertor to use old Apple joysticks on VCS, but it seems much more complicated than making a permanent mod to the joystick: http://www.atariarchives.org/ccc/chapter9.php The Enjoystick looks very lean and simple in design, with no board inside. I imagine that some older computer analog joysticks are also this way, and that at worst in those instances potentiometers might be incorrect values, but that these could be swapped out within the mechanical assembly. Is this possible? Or actually pretty difficult? .. I really love the controller I'm using but it is a pretty rare one and I'd like to have options and variety along these lines.

Kewl, thanks Rolo. I'd definitely vote in favor of the Vectrex-like stick. .. Fury Unlimited put out a controller called the Yeti that used an RC stick component that looked really nice. .. I've looked around for that kind of stuff with little luck. Usually it doesn't sell in individual components (always only the Playstation type) but I did find this recently: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/js-10/joystick-mechanism-no-pots-or-springs/1.html Not sure if this would be compatible with your PCB. Also their stock is dwindling. .. I don't know if the potentiometers and mechanism can handle a variety of sticks without additional mechanics. But these RC "stick ends" are plentiful: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apex-RC-Products-Red-Futaba-Spektrum-DX6i-DX7S-DX8-DX9-TX-Gimbal-Sticks-1701-/221472568325?hash=item3390cb3405 .. I'm not sure the expense involved in 3D printing, but many American public libraries have begun providing free access to 3D printers, (still pay for material), including the library in my city: http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/main/3dprinter.html I haven't tried this yet nor have any experience, but i'd look into it if you had a printable file on hand.