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gliptitude

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Posts posted by gliptitude

  1. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    this is a random question (i cant seem to find any info about this anywhere on the internet) how are vectrex homebrews made? i understand that they are made on a computer, but what software? how are they then transfered to the vectrex?

     

    It is not something that I have the ability to do, but basically from what I understand so far -

     

    You write the program in a TEXT EDITOR, such as Notepad in Windows. It's just text, and you first produce a text file. The program is written in a language called ASSEMBLY, which is NOT a higher level language like C or HTML. In addition to knowledge of the mnemonics unique to Assembly language programming, you also need to get to know the Vectrex system, and what is stored in it and available for you to use in your game.

     

    There is a free program called V-Model, which you can use to draw your graphics. This program will turn your drawing into Vectrex-ready code (in the form of a text file), which you can copy and use in your own program.

     

    The Vectrex system information is stored in a separate file, which you can easily download on the internet. You use this vectrex system file (VECTREX.I), your own program text file (renamed manually to be an .asm file) and an Assembly language compiler utility (AS09.exe) to compile a binary file with your computer's command line interface (such as Command Prompt).

     

    ... This .bin file is a playable game rom that you can test on a Vectrex emulator.

     

    To play on Vectrex immediately you generally need a writable cartridge, something made to use on Vectrex, which you first plug into a port on your computer using a cable, and put your ROM on to it. Then you unplug it from your computer and put it in your Vectrex. If you want other people to play your game, there are a lot of people who have one of these, and can easily play if you give them the file.

     

    If your game is good enough or if you are motivated enough to produce a dedicated cartridge for others to buy and play, there are some people who can do that for you for a fee. (John Dondzilla / Classicgamecreations.com) will make a Vectrex cartridge of any Vectrex game he has the rights to make for $15 each.

     

    Many Vectrex home-brew-programmers solder their own cartridge pcb's (the electronic element inside of the cartridge shell). I have no idea how this is done, or how unique the contents of the pcb are for each game.

     

    I mainly tried to answer this question because I myself have been trying figure this out for a long time. Anyone who really knows should correct me. Just trying to explain to a novice, which I never see done. Everything I read on the subject presumes a lot of knowledge that novices don't have.

  2. Posted

     

    gorf68

     

     

    Posted Today, 7:24 AM

    Oh, by the way, gliptitude

     

    I‘d be happy to have a look at your graphics stuff. Maybe I could be of some help in getting them moving/interacting a bit ;)

     

    That would be awesome! I will send you a PM with some links soon. Also, I took some videos of your games and I will include links to those too, once I get them uploaded (had to use my iPad to get decent quality video, and I don't have WiFi home, which is necessary for getting anything off the iPad).

     

    I think I already mentioned that I have a programmer committed for my game, but that he is an insanely busy guy and not really available to start working on our project at this time. But of course I am very anxious to see things get started, and I see no conflict with yourself chipping in for an early experiment. Probably I will show you a large volume of what I am trying to do, and see if there are particular things that you would be most inclined to play around with. .. There is a lot there i think for you to choose from, although I suppose there is some stuff that would seem more a priority and logical starting point. But any contribution from yourself would be greatly appreciated!

     

    Attached an image of vtwist here to hold you over until i get the videos up. It is just a still taken from the (crappy) video that I am able to get onto my laptop at home. The video stuck on my iPad is a bit better quality. ... I tried to choose an image here that showed the display problems at their worst. I believe the big triangle at the bottom was a graphical glitch, like the charging enemy had just exited the top of the screen. You'll see more clearly when I get the video for you. .. Might even have that up before you read this message.

     

    ... A last word with the VecWars controls - after I last posted comments on this I was playing your vtwist game again, which uses the buttons rather than the stick to control movement, and actually made me think it might not be as difficult as I formerly thought to do this in VecWars. I know you just said that you already tried this and that it was too difficult. But orienting it similarly to your Vtwist controls, where there is one button in between the 'left' and 'right' buttons, is really a pretty intuitive set-up (and different from the Asteroids type already discussed, which has side by side turning buttons for your left hand, and then shoot/thrust buttons for your right hand). ... If you could tolerate slowing the game down a bit, or making it slightly less hectic (fewer enemies) I think it might be viable.

     

    ...It would just be super awesome to have true directional shooting in a Vectrex game, and I don't think it's ever been done before.

     

    ... Heh, you might notice that I like to analyze things and I tend to go on and on. I'll try to limit myself though and hope not to waste your time.

    post-31910-0-73585400-1351183963_thumb.png

  3. Posted

    Does the Vectrex have the CPU power to do a pseudo-3D, top-down platformer? I'm thinking of something very simplistic, like a vastly stripped-down version of Trampoline Terror for Genesis -- or better yet, a cross between that, and this bonus level from Pilotwings for SNES.

     

    There are a bunch of Q*bert-ish games that use a top-down perspective, but the Vectrex has the (potential) ability to do smooth zoom & scaling the whole way.

     

    Fortress of Narzod (one of the original GCE Vectrex games) has an overhead perspective view. It is a shooter, not a platformer though. And the environment is static, like a single room or field that you move around in.

     

    Having camera movement, like in the video you linked, would be effing awesome on Vectrex. But a moving 3D environment like this would be very difficult (not impossible) on Vectrex, from what I understand. There was a Battlezone clone in the works, (long since abandoned), and it involved a lot of math to convey the 3D environment.

     

    Possibly if the 3D environment was conveyed less comprehensively this would be a more reasonable project? Meaning if rather than a solidly defined floor and objects, it was just floating sprites that changed their orientation (think Tac/Scan 3D levels, where you are navigating through a series of rings). Also if you're movement was restricted some like that, that you are always moving forward, rather than freely navigating an entire area.

     

    Also see GCE Dark Tower for Vectrex, where a 3rd person perspective view is conveyed fairly simply, by drawing only the player and the trees moving around him (no floor, no horizon, no 3D rendering of the individual trees, camera fixed on the rear view of the player).

  4. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    Yeah I'll take a picture for you or maybe even video of vtwist later. No problem. I love talking about this stuff, and like I said before, it's exciting to me that you were able to 'get started so easily'.

     

    retdev:

     

    Yes, it was "simply down to the button layout", which you have no control over. The collision detection was imperfect, but I wasn't really taking much account of that since these are just demos and early efforts. Of course working out all of the touch and feel of everything would be a huge part of what makes it a good game.

     

    Not sure if we are on the same page with the controller issues. (Also maybe I'm really imposing my own idea here, and it's not useful for you.) ..But when I hear 'strafe' I think dashing side to side. But maybe that's just the word you were using for what I was already talking about, which was rather STEERING with two buttons. I understand that moving and directional shooting are intended to be independent of eachother in your game. The problem is that on Vectrex you don't have a sensible button layout that would correspond with (4) different directions (like SNES, DS, PS etc), but rather the 4 buttons are all in a straight line. It's not insanely difficult to play your game the way it is, but it's just not as satisfying as it would be with a more appropriate control pad/button layout, which you just are never going to have access to on Vectrex (unless you expect everyone to pay another $50 for a moded controller, such as recycledgamers' vectrex snes pad, and then custom map the buttons to his button layout).

     

    My idea was a workaround that may or may not really be workable (might just be even more awkward and too difficult to play, as well as difficult to program). But I was saying that ship movement would be controlled with the vectrex buttons (3 of them - 2 for steering and one for 'gas'), rather than the joystick. You wouldn't have to shoot in the direction you were moving. You would independently fire in the desired direction by pushing the joystick in that direction. ... Potentially even reverse everything so that the controller was held upside down, so that shooting was done with the right hand. ... I suppose this would really be too much for one person to do (playing the game), as it really takes 2 hands to handle the four buttons themselves in 'stickless' arcade games that work this way (Asteroids etc).

     

    I guess another big problem would be that you would need to be able to see visually which direction the ship was pointing in if a steering system was used, and it would be silly looking for the shooting to be going in a different direction (like coming out of the side of the ship). Perhaps a more complex ship sprite would work, where the ship pointed in one direction to indicate movement, but then a (rotating) gun was drawn on top, to point where you were shooting. ... Again maybe we're really getting into a different game at this point. A Geometry Wars clone is worthwhile if you enjoy it I think, but maybe not a game that is really streamlined for Vectrex as is. ... I think directional shooting has been a dream of many, and perhaps someone will produce a dual stick Vectrex controller at some point. Fury Unlimited recently put out two new spinner controllers, so it's not out of the question.

     

    vtwist:

     

    Yes I would definitely prefer to control the character movement with the joystick, and move freely and smoothly side to side and forward and back. Perhaps one of the buttons could be used for shifting between the upper and lower grids.

     

    Not sure if you are set on it being a character (rather than a vehicle) or if there is shooting to be involved, or what these 2D rectangles are. I think it's really an awesome template though with the two scrolling grids. I actually specifically like that this floor and ceiling only incompletely represent the 3D environment, (rather than a completely resolved and enclosed tube or corridor). I think it is totally effective, novel and visually dynamic. In my mind the scrolling grids are the starting point for this game, and a valid one. You just need to figure out what you want them to represent, and what a fun game would be to apply them too.

     

    The perspective view floor/ceiling grid would be quite suitable I think for a Space Harrier type game, where the character was flying around the entire space in between the grids, rather than walking on the surface. But also with the way you are using it now, I think it could be awesome for a shooter, still based on traversing the floor/ceiling, with a button to 'reverse gravity', then the ship sort of slowly animates a 180 spin as it drifts from the floor to the ceiling. ... Probably if it were a ship rather than a character, you'd want to change the scale, make the ship much smaller than Spike and also possibly reproportion the grids to create a wider and deeper space.

     

    I'm not sure what your skills and interests encompass, or how you go about your work. But I am coming from a design perspective (no programming abilities), and would be happy to work on some graphics and forward them to you. I'm set up to make vector sprites in V-Model, a program which was made for outputing Vectrex coded graphics. I've been working on a Vectrex game for about 6 months, with a mock-up overlay, and made videos of ArtMaster animations demonstrating how it would play. I'll direct you to the videos if you are interested to see what i do.

     

    But whatever your ideas are for Vtwist, I don't see how you can go wrong with these scrolling grids. As long as you resolve all the graphical and gameplay issues, it will be a really cool game.

     

    Richard H, who posted earlier in this thread, produces Vectrex flash carts. He sells for $85. VecFlash is out of production, but he may have his newer SD card based cart in stock. Not sure if this is the 'programmable cartridge' you really want, but it will play your .bin's on Vectrex.

  5. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    I've been writing a game for the Vectrex (in assembly) lately, in fact I've already started a couple others too :) Been a bit distracted of late after buying a ZX spectrum and doing a little programming on that but I'm hoping to have something ready for Vectrex in the coming months. Most games I have planned are arcade-style shooters though, as that's my favourite genre.

     

    What sort of shooter are you working on for Vectrex?

     

    I've been designing one for a while, which has a perspective view (like Fortress of Narzod), flip-screen levels (quick scroll like in the old Zelda dungeons), power-ups and boss battles.

  6. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    Hey, played these two .bin's you posted. Pretty cool.

     

    I really like the title 'Retro Devolved'. (eh Edit: i just realized retro Evolve was already a Geometry Wars title though)... The directional shooting is fun, but maybe too difficult and confusing the way the vectrex fire buttons are oriented. ... Perhaps you could use the joystick for shooting, and then use the buttons like old arcade style (like Asteroids) 1.rotate left, 2. rotate right, 3. thrust. ... That might seem pretty obscure by today's standards, but several existing Vectrex shooters have the option to play this way, without the joystick. Having a game that worked that way but then actually used the stick for directional firing, would be a pretty outrageous experiment.

     

    Vtwist looks quite awesome on an emulator. When I had seen the still images I didn't realize that the two grids were actually moving. It's a really cool effect, and great use of vector graphics. On the emulator (i used ParaJVE) the zooming 2D rectangles look really cool too. ... I understand it's a demo at this point, and i suppose the control scheme is still evolving, so don't feel a need to comment on that. ... My only real complaint is that Spike is in it. I have to admit that he annoys me much less in your game (seeing only the back of him), but I personally just don't like the Spike character. :(

     

    ... I also flashed both of these games to my VecFlash cart, to test on an actual Vectrex. Both worked and were functional, but both experienced a lot of distortion. The distortion in vtwist was most disappointing, since it looked so amazing on the emulator. On Vectrex the grids were not lined up. The moving lines didn't match the border lines. They all either fell far short of the border, or extended far beyond the border. ... Not sure why this happens. I know it's an old machine, and each one is a little bit different. But a majority of the finished games don't experience these problems to this extent. I believe I've heard that the Vectrex programmers have numerous tricks for avoiding graphical distortion, but I don't personally have any knowledge of them.

     

    Very encouraging efforts in my opinion. I hope you stick with it.

  7. Posted

    still haven't managed to compile these. I am failing.

     

    i was able to view the .asm code properly by using a different text editor.

     

    i don't have any experience with Command Prompt or any of this. Compile and Run and &ndash don't seem to be recognizable commands.

     

    Using some other commands from a list on wiki I was able to produce .LST files, whatever that is. ... I do notice one thing I did produced hundreds of errors "mnemonic not recognized".

     

    ready made .bin's would be nice, but I also really want to learn how to do this.

  8. Posted

    ok, i guess i don't know what to do with .asm files.

     

    ... When I view them in notepad, the text scrolls to the left, rather than down. It's a dozen or more lines long, but each line is like 5+ pages wide. Is it supposed to be like this?

     

    With the Vectorzoa sprite tester template I have, the .asm files proceed like a list, sequentially from top to bottom. I can't really understand their contents, but I can still sort of go through it in a semi-logical way, edit a few simple things like the title and music in the header. Also with that it's already set up to compile a ROM, which I guess entails more files than just the one .asm. (two separate .asm for the sprite tester program, AS09.exe, DOS compiler shortcut, Vectrex.I, (sprite tester).I and (sprite tester).LST)

     

    How do I make a .bin or playable rom out of your asm? (please assume i know nothing about programming and very very little about computing)

  9. Posted

    ok i will try not to expect too much. ... But I am interested in what you said in the brainstorming thread, about how easy it was for you to get started. I'm pretty sure it would be a lot of fun for me to see 'what is easy for you to do'. ... I've been quite excited to just be able to draw my own sprites and display them on Vectrex.

     

    Downloaded your .asm files from your blog last night. Still need to transfer to my PC and see if I can get them to play.

     

    The link you had for a .rar file with compiler and everything included, did not work for me. Did not link to a download.

  10. Posted

    Oooh! An idea peddler thread! Such threads are rare, so even if I'm not technically a Vectrex fan, I'd like to honor this opportunity to flex my creative muscles! :D

     

    heh, you should be a Vectrex fan.

     

    Some of your ideas have approximately been done before (Polar Rescue, Royal 21) and others exist almost exactly as you describe them (Discs of Tron demo).

     

    But I've never seen an isometric shooter for Vectrex. I've thought that before too. Could be really cool. ... I wonder if the vertical orientation of the Vectrex screen would be troublesome though?

     

    Night Golf is a cool idea. I really really really hate the actual sport, but I do think it could translate well to a video game, especially if it was like a fantasy scenario, maybe with obstacles like in mini-golf. Could be a game kind of like Marble Madness. At any rate it could be much less frustrating than real life golf.

  11. Posted

    I guess I didn't make my game/app opinion clear. I don't care if it's BASIC per se. I think if the effort is going to be put into Vectrex related software than you should get the most bang for your buck. If a decent game making tool and "sprite" creator could be made MANY games would spring up. What could be better than that?

     

    I don't know of any 'game making tools', but like I already mentioned there is some really accessible stuff for making "sprites".

     

    V-Model is a FREE vector drawing tool for PC, which exports Vectrex ready code:

     

    http://www.playvectrex.com/designit/christumber/vmodel_4a.zip

     

    It has some glitches and you might need some pointers to get started, but it is a very lean and straightforward program. ... I admit that I don't really know what to do with the resulting code. But what I do is view the 'exported sprite' (text file), and I invert the x,y values, and paste them in this template from Vectorzoa:

     

    http://vectorzoa.com/vecdraw/vecdraw.zip

     

    This is a neat little kit that Vectorzoa made for a contest, for fans to design a character for his game. There are instructions and tips on the website for using Vecdraw. ... Start out drawing on graph paper. ... Everything needed to produce a playable ROM is included in that zip file, and it really doesn't require comprehension to use. ... Play the ROM on a Vectrex emulator, or a Vectrex flash cart if you have one. ... The template allows you to display two sprites. You can toggle visible/invisible with each (using Vectrex controller buttons 1 and 2), you can move them around on the screen (using the joystick) and you can scale larger and smaller using buttons 3 and 4.

  12. Posted

    The Vectrex would be the perfect platform for a really good tube shooter. Not necessarily a Tempest or Gyruss port, but something original of that same little genre. The vector graphics are just begging for it.

     

    Ever seen Web Wars? It's one of the original Vectrex games, and it is THE best game ever for this console, as well as one of the top ten video games of all time, in my opinion. Better than Tempest for me. You're right that this sort of game is very well suited to Vectrex. ... Perhaps more of this type could be made, but it would be very hard to top Web Wars.

  13. Posted

    Mother of creatures great and small GET THIS GUY to finish Vectrex BASIC. Then hobbyists could make games instead of bleating opinions about what could be. :)

    http://www.revival-s...com/vexosbasic/

     

    Probably not a very efficient way to program Vectrex, even if the project were completed and released.

     

    There are people who know how to program Vectrex in assembly, and some of them are pretty accessible people, and generous with their knowledge. Also other tools exist, including some highly recommended tutorials and easy to use sprite drafting software.

     

    I have ZERO programming experience and I can fairly easily get the sprites I design to display on my Vectrex. I'm confident I could teach anyone how to do this much. Of course this is not game programming, but it is useful when collaborating with a programmer to be able to supply him with code ready sprites (I know because I am working with an experienced programmer).

     

    ... The Vectrex Basic project I think was intended as more of a fun tool for the "hobbyist" like you say, and I doubt that any serious game programmer would try to write a Vectrex game in basic. Maybe I'm wrong.

  15. Posted

    In response to a tiny bit of renewed interest, I am starting this thread for:

     

    NEW VECTREX GAME IDEAS

     

    This had previously taken place in a thread that was not really intended for this. Well THIS is the thread for anybody's ideas. Programmers of course are welcome, but I wanted to set aside a place for the novices (idea peddlers) as well. I'm interested in sharing my own ideas, which range from fairly complete concepts to simply vague ideas and untapped genres.

     

    Personally, I am most interested in new concepts, rather than ports/clones.

     

    Please post any ideas you have and join the discussion! I'll start posting my own soon if you don't.

  16. Posted

    Hey really cool to see more interest in Vectrex development. I saw your post in the "Vextrex Idea" thread, and you quoted an old post I made about starting a new thread for Vectrex game ideas. I will do that shortly, and post in the old thread when I have done so.

     

    Very busy at the moment, so I haven't looked at your projects yet. I will try to do that this evening. I do think it's cool that you put your assembly out there, so people can actually see the program. But I suppose .bin's would be easier for some people to look at on an emulator.

     

    Also I quickly looked up the Atic-Attack game you mentioned in the other thread. (Never heard of it, never played any Spectrum games). I don't know of anything like it that has been made for Vectrex and it looks like a great candidate for adaptation (or even better - just the inspiration for a NEW game, with similar features). ... It actually has a couple things in common with the Vectrex game design I have been working on ('flip-screen' levels and overhead perspective views), although mine is a totally different sort of game (arcade shooter). (I see in your post here 'no brand-new idea pitches please', so i will hush now).

     

    I look forward to checking out your stuff later!

  18. Posted

     

    They do work great as a media system and that's how I used it for a while. I have the first generation of the Intel minis, which has problems with XBMC, so I ended up get a WD Live Hub for my video needs. The recent model doesn't have these problems and would also make a fantastic emulator box.

     

    My mini is now a development box, which I use for QMC2, as well as other projects I work on.

     

    If they come out with a Core i7 mini, I'll jump all over it.

     

    Cool. ... I'm looking at the apple store right now and the "Mac Mini with Lion Server" ($999) says: "2.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7". ... What is QMC2? You use your Mini to program games?

  19. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    You're saying you have a G4 machine, which frankly, is completely ancient history at this point,

     

    Ok, settle down. I'm not arguing or comparing my machine to a Mac Mini, just mentioning a few points and my experience and like I said, Windows environment is viable now. I was trying to spell some of the ancient Mac myths here, (except for the controller thing I just haven't looked into, SORRY). Some in this thread are using a G5 which is not a whole lot less ancient than G4, and NO ONE is using a Mini.

     

    ...I would love to know how a Mini functions myself, preferably hearing from a fellow computer-illiterate Mac user who owns one. I had thought they were mainly promoted as some kind of media console rather than a desktop. Kill me if I'm wrong.

     

    Nice to hear that Windows is seemless now and many controllers available too.

     

    How about console flash card loader software? Any reason a current-gen Mac user can't rely on their regular machine to mess with their flash cards? I used to have to move to a PC to write to my GBA flash card. (I don't anymore because the flash card broke)

  20. Posted

    Mac Mini is probably the least common Mac machine. Not sure how this figures into the conversation or how it compares to MacBooks or desktops, but I would guess that most, if not all of these responses are coming from people using different machines. I use an iBook G4 and some of the emulators I try to use initiate "classic environment" which does not ever successfully load for me. The Windows environment on the Macs is something that used to be totally disfunctional but is now possible, from what I understand.

     

    I seem to remember back when I was more into emulators that there was a only a very small range of joysticks/controllers to be used on a Mac.

  21. Posted · Edited by gliptitude

    Also Protector for me. Actually never really liked Defender, but Protector reintroduced me to it, now I love Defender (and Protector). The vertical screen of the Vectrex is not ideal for this title, but it works, and the slick vector rendition is amazing. I like the little people you are defending in Protector, they're so small they almost look like little LED patterns like on the tabletop games, rather than vectors. $12 on cartridge from Classic Game Creations? Outrageous!

     

    2nd fav is I, Cyborg. Beyond that I'm not sure. Sectis is cool. Haven't played Vector Pilot. Haven't played Spikes Circus. Both look awesome.

  22. Posted

    Heh if i made even league minimum MLB player salary, (and played ball for a living) i'd pay approximately the salary of a school teacher for my own personal Vectrex game programmer.

     

    Perhaps custom programming for the super wealthy gamer could support the ambitious retro programmer. Basically find a patron, the way artists do.

    • Like 1

  23. Posted

     

    Gliptitude mentioned that the buttons are not as responsive as he would like. This is a known issue I have where the button contacts on my boards sometimes oxidize because they don't have enough tin on them - especially of they don't get used much. What AX said is true about the existing boards being perfectly good and I have, indeed, already changed my manufacturing to simply modify the existing board by adding on a small daughterboard instead of making a whole new board myself. On the SNES controllers this means that the buttons use the original carbon button contacts and the Genesis controllers are split between gold and carbon contacts depending on when and where they were manufactured. The labor to do this, however, is actually substantially more than just making my own boards. Reliability on these new controllers is much higher.

     

    Glibtitude - PM me your address and I will ship you out one of the SNES Vectrex controllers that uses the existing board. If you like it better, just ship back the old one so I can use it for a donor. This goes for anyone else having issues with one of my controllers - contact me and we'll work something out.

     

    PM'd my address to you last night. Look forward to your response! I didn't mean to bad-mouth your product, it is still quite useful and I use it all the time. Just that it could be a bit more responsive :) . I love that you are doing this stuff and that the Vectrex community has a guy like you!

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