jwhyrock

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but is composite the same thing as the yellow video cord? If so I always just called it video. If it is the same thing then you should be able to have both composite and s-video hooked up to the same switch box. Works fine for me. The Pelican thing sounds great, especially if it is only 20 bucks. I paid at least 30 or more for my radio shack one, and mine is the basic version minus the remote control and the RF hookups. I didn't care about the RF though because the least I'll use is standard video for any of my systems with the exception of my atari/colecovision which I just hook directly to the back of my tv. Oh actually I just realized I have cable now so that won't work... Oh well I don't play them often enough to really care. You shouldn't lose much of a signal as long as you have an s-video monster cable plugging directly into your tv, and have s-video plugging into your switch box. That's what I do anyway. I'm probably going to find some convertor or cord so I can have standard video for my old systems. I can't stand all the crazy flickering going on with my old systems.

Actually T-Bird I was agreeing with you not labelling you the arrogant ethnocentric thing. I said Americans tend to be that way in general, and I realize this may be an unfair statement for a lot of people, but it's just my perception and I think probably the perception of the international community. Of course there are millions of intelligent, informed, and open minded people in this country, unfortunately there is a whole heck of a lot of dumb asses too. Comparing Hitler to Sadaam is crazy. Hitler had a huge army, powerful economy (after he got going anyway), and a lot of influence. Sadaam has Iraq and that's it, and he doesn't even control all of it anyway. I agree he is a mean SOB, and that the people there probably do suffer. I don't agree that there more of a terrorist threat there than anywhere else. This is just propaganda to support Bush's reason to go in there. Just like the 9/11 thing he is appealing to mass American patriotism to influence public opinion to go along with whatever he feels like. We've invented new political words like "weapons of mass destruction" and "terrorist acts" to sway peoples opinions. It's just a big game. I am totally against this illegal invasion, but for all the supporters of it I just hope the people really are better off in the end, because that's what's important. God help our own dismal economy and foreign policy. By the time that monkey is done we'll be public enemy #1 for the whole world not just select countries. C'est la vie...

This is probably common knowledge, but I remember when I used to play Wolfenstein I was never able to find 100% of the secrets. I was darn close, and searched literally every section of everything everywhere. Is it just me or a programming flaw?

You're right Patters98 I'll let it drop. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Amen LinkoVitch! I was going to defend myself, but there's no need. I will amend one statement though. I would say "a lot" of Americans are ethnocentric and have a superiority complex. I am not even saying a majority. In my travels American tourists are "usually not always" the most obnoxious. They tend to be loud, rude, mindless of other cultures, and act like they are better than the locals around them. There's travellers and tourists. I will never be a tourist. I always try to learn as much of a country's language and culture as I can both before and during my trip. We have a lot to learn from the rest of the world. We are far from acting responsibly. Excluding other catastrophes of our fine country, during the current administration's run we've alienated almost the entire world, insulted several "allied" countries value in the international community as well as their culture, threatened Iran, Syria, North Korea, and illegally invaded Iraq on illusory charges that we never proved. We're like the international bully with a freedom badge. Those of higher intellect don't question the intellect of other's they know nothing about...

We actually agree on something in this case. I think people can take political correctness too far a lot of times, but referring to something or someone as Jap is pretty vulgar if not outright racist. It may not be intended to be so, but there it is. I studied Japanese for 3 and a half years (although it's fading with time...), and love the culture. It's a culture all about respect, and that being the case I think they deserve some. Americans typically have a superiority complex and are so completely ethnocentric they don't give a damn when someone makes fun of them for being American. They look down their nose at the rest of the world for some reason even though we are petulant children in comparison to the wisdom or age of the international community. I'm not stereotyping all Americans as I realize there are intelligent, cultured, and open minded people in this country. I studied a lot about cultural differences both about the American side and the European side to get a perspective on cultures. It was part of a scholarship I was part of through the state department when I lived overseas.

My intent was never to get into a system war with anyone. I was validating Jayson's point that some (I won't name anyone) argued about. I got sucked into a pointless one way conversation. Obviously I'm clueless and am a bundle of contradictions. I love my Jaguar and play it quite often, but I must have missed the turnoff to the Dreamcast highway. I can't imagine what I was thinking when I bought Towers 2 and Iron Soldier the other day. Must be because I'm a Jaguar basher. Sorry fanboys... Sincerely, Tactless

I'm hardly backpedaling and I am not changing a single thing about any statement I've made in this forum. The list I made was for great games for the system. Not a list of every game I've played. I've tried to get you to absorb this for a while now in this forum. Let me repeat myself: the list I made is a list of great games for the Atari Jaguar, NOT a list of games I've played. Ok if you are following me so far then I will proceed. I am not inexperienced in playing Jaguar games. I've played a ton of them when we had a place that let us play them there without purchasing them. I utilized the store for many months and played many titles. Most of the games I played on the Jaguar were not very good (Of course this is my opinion). I bought games that I thought were great. I played Iron Soldier as well, and forgot to include that title to my small list. The list is small, because I don't think there are many great games for the system and NOT and I repeat NOT because I haven't played many games. That's why you're carefully calculated percentages are far from accurate. The reason I insulted you was due to your tone and attitude in your posts. If I missed a few great games then great tell me what they are, and maybe I'll pick them up and see what I was missing. Not playing every single title on the system does not make me wrong in saying there were not that many exceptional games for the Jaguar. For either one of us to be correct we would have to establish which games were good and which were bad then tally up the numbers and see the results. If anyone wants to assist in this process we could quit the "blah blah blah back and forth crap". I'm happy to say I agree that we disagree.

* b)Because it's an Atari product * d)Because you like having something alot of people don't * f)You like the name "Jaguar" and the design of the system * g)other: It was the newest system out at the time, and I almost always buy any next generation game console (when I can afford it, I don't have PS2, Gamecube, or XBox... ) I had a chance to play Tempest 2K and AvP beforehand at a store that had gaming booths. I was instantly sold. The reason I didn't choose choice a) was because I don't think it has the greatest games ever made, but I do think it has some timeless games that you can keep coming back to and play no matter how old and outdated it is.

It seems the apparently young and immature T-Bird is more interested in arguing for the sake of argument rather than actually debate views in an intelligent manner. I've already rebuked the statement's he's made on how many titles I've "played" or considered "good". I've repeated myself several times in stating I've rented and played a lot of the games (albeit not every single one) for the Jaguar including CD titles. The titles I chose to be good or great were based on my experience with the titles or by hearing extremely rave reviews from several different gamers on the ones I haven't played. It's true I did not need to include the titles I hadn't played, but I figured everyone would flame me if I didn't. I also clearly stated that should someone think of games I'd forgotten or chosen not to include to post the titles, and why they think they were a good game. This way we could create dialogue about the Jaguar that could actually be positive rather than this rant for rant about SNES/Genesis vs. Jaguar or whatever has upset T-Bird so much. Rather than clearly reading my posts he chooses to see what he wants and play word games to get in the last word . Maybe my standards are higher than his regarding game quality. I'm objective and don't mind exchanging ideas on why games are good or not good. Kevincal put it best "lmao T-Bird, do you ever lose an argument?". Changing gears I think the Dreamcast kiosk was simple, but cool and post-modernistic. I Like the color scheme and the dimples or whatever you call the all around the outside. The Jag kiosk does kick mega ass though. The Virtua Boy one was cool too. As to the DC being made poorly, I've had to repair one $25, and that was after over 2 years of use. Not a bad price to pay for a great system. The repair to the CD player is simple and universal. It's the same thing they would do for a pooped out PS2. I think that in the future it will not be a big deal to have one repaired. We'll see I guess. The Dreamcast is definitely my favorite system. I will always pull out my Jaguar in the future though.

By my own admission 40%?... I didn't even list every game I've owned, rented, or played. You're pulling number's out of your backside to support your losing argument that the Jaguar had a high ratio of great games to crap games. I suppose the only way to bury this pointless topic is to have a complete list of games for the Jaguar seperated by the Jag console and CD system. Then have a rating system for each game that mutiple people can vote on and rate a value on each game. Then we can move some games to the good or great category, and move the others to the mediocre/crap category. If we did this I think the results would speak for themselves. Thunderbird's blind love of this dead system apparently is causing him to attack the integrity of several seasoned gamers who have participated in the evolution of the gaming industry firsthand. Apparently no matter how much experience one has with a videogame system or systems it doesn't count for anything if you make the sin of criticizing some aspects of the Jaguar. If you haven't played 100% of the library of games including protos and alphas, apparently you are not qualified to comment on it. Even if you've played the majority of titles. I would bet everyone here has a healthy respect and in many cases "love" for Atari and the Jaguar. Myself included. I am just a realist and pointing out what should be obvious facts about the quality of software for a large portion of Jag titles. I can't believe someone could still "bunker" down in the mentality of that most of the games were great regardless of how many people (fans and owners, not just reviewers) feel otherwise. That is a truly paranoid fanboy mentality. I am really not trying to insult anyone who owns/plays/programs on a Jaguar. I truly do enjoy the system and some of it's games.

I had way more than limited exposure to the Jag as you put it. I've played a lot of Jag games. This isn't supposed to be a pissing contest. Just because I don't hack my Jag and turn my control pad into a rotary one (which kicks ass), does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Just because I haven't played a few of the actual good games on the system, does not mean I didn't play others. I'll repeat myself one more time about the SNES and Genesis so you will understand it. No one is comparing the hardware here. What's being compared is the quality of programming and software. Yes I agree there are great Jaguar games, just not many of them. I can't believe you keep trying to turn this into a SNES/Genesis vs. the Jaguar. Obviously the Jag is light years ahead of those systems. It just didn't live up to it's potential other than a few gems like your Battlesphere which I saw a video clip of. At the time I was interested in the Jag CD it was extremely expensive. Had I known about the mark down I would have picked one up. C'est la vie. I am not trying to rag on the Jaguar. I was supporting intelligent commentary by someone who obviously has had more than limited exposure to games and especially the Jaguar. As to the Dreamcast, if the CD player wasn't that great who cares? I had to repair mine once, but CD players do break down. What's important was the innovation and software of the system. If you don't dig the DC that's your opinion. I think a lot of people do and if they were to compare the two (which wouldn't exactly be fair due to tech differences) it's obvious who they would choose unless they're (like you appear to be) a huge Atari fan. I'm a fan of good gaming, and when I get my copy of Towers 2 and Iron Soldier (which I have played before) I will play the Hell out of them.

I own AvP, Tempest 2K, Cybermorph, and Wolfenstein 3D. True on me not knowing about the games I haven't played. Battlesphere was released much later after the Jaguar had it's demise, and Battlemorph was on the Jag CD which I never bought. I didn't even realize that the Jaguar community was still producing software which is cool. The Jag CD was and is too expensive for casual gaming. The library of games for the CD is just too small for me to have wanted to invest in it. I was not very impressed with the titles I playtested on the CD or with most of the cartridge games I played. I did put quite a bit of time into finding out good games to get for the system. There weren't many and that's why my game library is relatively small. I didn't see the point in forking out 50 or so dollars at that time on average or poor quality games. I was lucky enough to be able to rent a majority of the games I played so I didn't have to waste the money on them. In hindsight it would have been nice to have them for the collector value, but I only recently discovered Jaguar stuff was actually worth something. I dug it out about a month ago, and in a fit of nostalgia went on Ebay looking around. Hence how I ended up finding this forum... Oh yeah I forgot to add Iron Soldier to the list of good games. (Mine's coming in the mail hopefully soon)

"These people"? Ummm are you even reading our posts? We've already stated that we've (excuse me for speaking on Jayson's behalf) been playing videogames our whole lives. So even though I've owned almost every videogame system ever released, bought my Atari Jaguar, bought several games for the Jaguar, and rented and tried out several other games for the Jaguar, I'm somehow being psychologically manipulated by gaming magazines to hate the Jaguar? I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example. You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games. The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar: Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it) Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it) AvP Tempest 2K Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable) Those are the games I would consider good. They are original and still fun to play. Do we include ports of other games such as: Doom, Wolfenstein, etc. etc.? We could I guess. I still enjoy Wolfenstein (although if someone could tell me if it's possible to get all the secrets I would appreciate it, never seemed to be able to and I was always very very thorough). There were other games which I'm sure we're fun, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them something special. There were really not that many great games worth notice on the Jaguar, and a lot of them we're pathetic. I like my Jaguar very much, but I still stand by the fact (or opinion for you loyalists) that the majority of Jaguar games were a pit of mediocrity at best. My interpretation of Jayson's comparison of the SNES and Genesis to the Jaguar was to illustrate how disappointing most of the titles on the Jag were considering the superior technology of the Jaguar. No one (I think) is arguing why the Jaguar was a failure (no 3rd party support, poor management, etc. etc.). I've never allowed someone's review or opinion on a game supercede my own experience. I usually don't agree with most reviews. I still enjoy playing all my old systems. I just bought Alex Kidd in Miracle World again for the Sega Master System, and was playing Monopoly and Wonder Boy on it the other night with friends. Overall the Jaguar was a disappointment whereas I feel that the Dreamcast was a success.

I have to agree with Jayson. Now I wasn't born until 77', but I did start gaming on an Atari 2600 when I was like 4 or 5. I've always bought Sega first, and pretty much every new system that came out. I also never owned a Turbografx, or Duo or whatever. I wasn't exactly studying the market, but I was definitely along for the ride. I can't believe that the Dreamcast failed quicker than the Jaguar. I mean the library of DC games alone would make it almost impossible to say that the Jaguar lasted for a longer amount of time. Nonetheless that's not really important to the argument at hand. The Dreamcast is a brilliant system. I like my Jaguar just fine, but 90% of the games suck ass. I don't think Jayson was comparing the graphical or technological capabilities of the Jag vs. the Genesis or SNES, but just the fact that the games themselves tended to be better developed, and overall better games on the Genesis and SNES. I mean I buy games because I want to play them. At the time we had a cool rental store which focused on Jag and 3DO and other less well known systems. They had several booths where you could try the games out and play them as long as you wanted to pay. They also rented them. I played a lot of Jag games there, and most of them sucked ass, and I think most people would be hard pressed to argue, unless you just want to defend "Atari Honor" or be a fanboy as was previously said. I couldn't even rent 3DO or Jaguar games at most places if any that I can recall. To say that DC was only popular because it could be hacked is not only ridiculous, but stupid. I mean are the hackers and pirates the majority or the minority? Quite a few people I knew owned Dreamcasts and none of them were hacking away. It's a damn good system. None of my friends owned a Jaguar, and only one friend owned a 3DO (I'm just using 3DO as an example of a system that failed) I was borrowing my friend's PS2 for a very long time, and I was still playing my DC, because it has some very cool features and great games. Very original features and games. I mean the memory card feature that allows you to play it like a portable system, and download stuff is ingenious. The internet hook-up (albeit not very successful in the States) was awesome, and the library of games was quite impressive considering it was losing the marketing battle. The DC is way better in every way than the original PS. It just happened to be released at a bad time when newer systems were on the way. Real gamers know the DC was a kick ass system just like the Saturn was kick ass. I have a lot of respect for Atari's attempt at success, and for what they were able to release, but If I had to choose between the Jag and DC I would ask myself this question: "hmmm 4 or 5 truly "good" games on the Jag, or a whole lot of "great" games on the DC, which to choose?..."

I don't know which kiosk I like better between the two. Value wise I'm sure the Jaguar kiosk would be worth much more for collector's value, but the design on the DC one is pretty sleek and nice. Admittedly the Jaguar logo on the top kicks major ass. A bigger screen size to make it look more arcade like would be perfect for the DC kiosk.

I like it. I guess it would be cool to have a kiosk, but it would have to be in addition to my current setup. I wouldn't be able to lay on my couch and drink beer as easily. =)

Where can I get a copy of the game, and for how much? How playable is it exactly?

I guess my camp (if there is such a thing) is gaming for the sake of gaming. I love the new systems. I mean I think everyone agrees wth moving on and seeing bigger and better things. I also happen to love playing old games too. Some games outshine others, and if you can go back to them and still enjoy them then that's what makes them great. I guess that's why Atari (even though it had a majority of garbage) still has some gems. They didn't have the support or global control of companies like Sony or the veteran companies which had previously dominated the market. They gave it a go, and I commend them for that. If they released a new system I would probably buy it again.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with changing 2D to 3D "IF" it turns out well. I think in the case of Zelda it did turn out well. Obviously it's not the same kind of game, but if it's fun and cool who cares? I loved Super Mario 64, and played the hell out of it to get all the secrets. There were some minor bugs due to them pushing it out the door, but overall it was an amazing game experience for me. Maybe Nintendo and other companies could do multiple versions of the same game to appeal to everyone. In essence have a completely different storyline or something for Zelda, and have one a 2D game and the other 3D. You could release them at various times over the year so you wouldn't take away from the sales of either one. .Hack on the PS2 is going to be a trilogy and it looks bad ass. Just an idea.

I haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on gameplay, slowdown, etc. I wouldn't say cel shaded graphics has been done "countless" times before. I did mention Jet Grind Radio, but I can't think of too many titles that use it. I say it's innovative, because cel shading is still relatively new, and it's never been applied to Zelda before. I totally disagree with saying that they used cel shading to save time or to make it easier. It's an artistic decision made by the game creators which has obviously stirred up quite a bit of controversy. Like I said about not playing it, I can't comment on whether it seems like a rush job or not. Perhaps, perhaps not. When I get a GameCube I'm definitely buying it so I guess I'll have to wait and see.

This argument reminds me of the one I responded to on the blue Jaguar that most people seemed to despise. Personally I love Cel Shaded graphics. Jet Grind Radio is one of my favorite games. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to play the XBox one yet. I was under the impression that a majority of gamers are fans of Anime or Japanese Animation. If that's the case why does everyone have a bug up their behind regarding the style of Zelda? It's innovative, original, and far from kid like. To say the graphics are worse than old videogames is ludicrous. I dare you to set it side by side with some old game with cartoony graphics and then honestly tell me the graphics suck. If you don't like cel shaded graphics fine, but that doesn't mean the depth of gameply, storyline, music, etc. are no good. I love the graphic style of the game, and some (not all) of my friends agree. Zelda games are always a huge project, and I have yet to play one I didn't like. Another game with a cool graphic style is Wild Arms 3 on PS2. I saw my friend playing it for a while, and I love the artwork on it. Also on knocking 3D games I think that's unfair. I am playing the heck out of Guardian Heroes right now and having a ball so I do love 2D games. I think 3D games are awesome too. They are more immersive sometimes. Both 2D and 3D games are cool, and I think both deserve respect. Do you really think that no games should be in 3D?

I use S-Video for all of my current systems. I tried using my monitor which is 17" or was 19"? Either way it wasn't worth the reduction in size. Admittedly the picture was gorgeous, but I like having things big. I owned an old big screen tv for a long time and used that to play games. Picture clarity eventually pooped out causing me to ditch the behemoth, but it was hell of fun playing multi-player games with friends. My dad has a nice Mitsubishi big screen with an S-Video port on it. If I had a couple of grand to throw around I'd pick me up one of those. Heck if European TV's support the better picture I wouldn't mind getting one. I lived in Europe for a couple of years, but I shipped my computer over and used that at the time. I don't recall much about the TV's. If I got a European TV (of course with a power adapter), would it work properly over here in the States?

PayPal totally screwed my account over. I spent countless hours e-mailing them and calling them to get it straightened out. They were rude, and complete morons. I've never had a problem with Bidpay. I use PayPal out of necessity, but given the choice I always use Bidpay.

To Gunstar I must say I love the quote you have for your posts. The latest Jordan book though left me sort of wanting more. I enjoyed all the intrigue that went along with it, but I guess I was hoping to have Rand playing a bigger role in the book. I hope the next one will have more channelling and destruction. Regarding my question about the joysticks. I actually could use one. I dug out my 2600 a week ago, and I tried to play some games, but I realized I only had the sports and racing controllers. I was trying to play Haunted House, but it wasn't going very well. I am really pissed, because I wanted to play Adventure, but it's not with my games. I know we owned it, but it's not there!!! I was using my Colecovision with the Atari 2600 adapter, and the only video hook up I had was the old RF adaptor thing with the one cable attached to it and the Coleco. The picture was spastic at best. I don't know if it's always like that, or if I need a new cable.