kevtris
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Posts posted by kevtris
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There are several millions of people using XBOX and PS3, and PS4 systems and are happy with the TV sets scalers for videogames.
If the high end TV set and external scalers are such a problem then this would be more reason to include a 4K scaler in the Collectorvision system. However I have been happy with the picture quality of my ColecoVision ADAM computer when scaled from 192 interlaced composite video to 1080i, 1080P, and 4K Ultra HD.
These systems aren't outputting sharp edge pixel art usually. They are generally 3D style games which is fairly similar content to TV/movies. In the case of classic videogames, we generally do not want the pixels to be antialiased :-)
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These are the resolution modes that would be ideal on the CollectorVision system over HDMI to offer the widest compatibility with equipment if a full functional built in 4K scaler was going to be included. (There are some old tube TV's that do 480i and 1080i, plus some first generation flat panels that do 480P and some older 720P flat panels).
So the ideal menu selection would be source direct native resolution mode, plus the following menu options would be ideal 480i, 480P, 576i pal, 576p pal, 720P, 1080i, 1080P, and 2160P with both 60Hz and 50Hz supported.
Of course I could just use the HDMI input on my OPPO UDP-203 and the Blu-ray player well up-scale or down-scale the native CollectorVision video to any of the above resolutions I select in the menu and 24Hz, 50Hz, and 60Hz is supported in the OPPO UDP-203. I am guessing that the HDMI output for the CollectorVision system well do 60Hz and maybe also 50Hz for international HDTV's. 24Hz is not needed since we are not dealing with film based material.
TVs and monitors (and blu-ray players) are optimized to scale video sources for things like TV and movie content. Scaling videogames is a bit more difficult, because you generally wish to retrain the pixel edges. Passing sharp edge pixels through a typical scaler will fuzz them out. I can see a big difference in how my various monitors and TVs scale 480p vs. 720p or 1080p on pixel art.
This is why scaling the output in an FPGA will beat any scaler on a typical TV or monitor- they simply are not designed to scale this content. Also, when upscaling to non-integer ratios, you need to keep a tight leash on the interpolation to prevent it getting fuzzy. Most people seem to like the sharp edge pixels. Also, the scalers on FPGAs can be more flexible in another way a TV/monitor/blu-ray player typically cannot- they can give you very fine control over the width (and sometimes height) so you can tweak it to suit your tastes and monitor.
I learned a lot of people are sensitive to aspect ratio issues, and really like having the fine X width control to tweak it 'just so'. Just my 2 bits (1/4 byte).
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The website is back up. Not impressed with the crowdfunding goals on something with an already-set release date.
I mean really, wtf?
If you give us enough money, we'll make another piece of Lego for you to buy!
Eat turds, PolyMegaBuxx. My Xbox 360 can do that and it only ran me $200 seven years ago.
and it goes on from there. PC-FX and classic Atari system modules. Not that it matters. After the initial "rush" of orders it'll die down.
Don't forget that level 20 is N64, for a cool $8 million. (check the html for a list of the hidden reward tiers. they go up to level 20). level 10 is an "Advanced social network" for only $3.25 million.
For some reason, 3DO is below N64, at level 19 for $7 million.
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Okay, I think it's time to drop this. I've been sitting on it for months, and felt that since it didn't really change the map at all when it came to the system (merely reinforced my existing suspicions) that it was best left until after pre-orders started. I wanted to give Polymega every chance it could to handle this the right way, before they started taking money. Now that their hand is out, it is what it is.
Bryan decided to hit me up on Facebook a while back, after not liking what we were saying on AA, and REALLY not liking that I asked a question on the FB page.
Bryan4.PNGbryan5.PNGBryan6.PNGBryan7.PNGHere are my takeaways:
- Playmaji is reading this forum, but apparently don't think it's worth their time to comment here.
- I definitely see some dialing back of expectations
- Criticism or skepticism of the project is NOT appreciated
- If I had to characterize the project as a whole, it would seem that the lawyers and marketers are running things. Engineers (if there are any) are on a short leash.
I'll leave the rest to you. A few other good observations to be made, but you're smart tacos, you'll see 'em.
Edit: for some reason, the files didn't upload correctly.
Thanks for that. I guess they didn't like my comment. Oh well. Sorry 'bout that. I don't want to see their project fail, or wish them ill will, but so far they haven't really produced much in the way of evidence that hybrid emulation is going to work. I stand by what I said about their FPGA board: it's just a development thing and is not anything you'd ever ship in a product. Not that there is anything wrong with this- you need to make dev boards- but they seemed to be showing it off like this was the guts. Also, going by their FAQ, there's not even an FPGA inside it now, and hybrid emulation isn't either.
I will quote their FAQ here since people seem to be having issues with their site:
For now, standard modules use standard emulation with low latency controller inputs. Certain modules in the future will release with an embedded FPGA that will allow extended compatibility with hardware accessories.
Yes, and no. The team at Playmaji has spent a good amount of effort on a piece of technology called Active Cartridge Reading, an experimental subset of Hybrid Emulation that allows you to use any games or peripherals that work on a real classic console using a live blend of software-based emulation and memory mapped hardware. This technology, while it exists, is not yet fast enough for some of Polymega’s supported systems, and would result in a degraded overall experience if launched prematurely.
Now, support for game cartridges with on board DSP chips such as Everdrives, Starfox, or live-reading of devices like Game Genies is blended.
First, we’ve licensed standard DSP-compatible emulators for systems with those types of cartridges, which will allow games with special chips to be played via software emulation. That means you can now play backed up games such as StarFox and others regardless of whether you have the cartridge inserted, a convenience that most gamers will appreciate. We’ve also added a software-based Game Genie and Pro Action Replay as a reward level for supporting the console beyond its initial funding goals. The Super Game Boy is no longer compatible with the EM02 SNES SFC module, however, we have set up a GB / GBC / GBA module as an additional reward tier if reached.
Second, certain systems are going to be FPGA based. The first example of this is going to be the dedicated Famicom module, which will be released after the launch of the system. Famicom is particularly important to be implemented in this manner as it included accessories such as the Famicom Disk System (FDS), which was a critical part of its library and one that we will not be creating a dedicated module for. The tech to support FPGA modules is built in to the launch version of the Polymega™ Base Unit, and we may continue to release other FPGA modules in the future. FPGA modules will have a slightly higher price point than standard modules.
This decision / change overall has freed up our team to focus on matters that more factually push the needle in terms of overall system compatibility, as evidenced by our recently-announced support for the Sega Saturn, adding over one thousand new compatible games to Polymega™. What made this possible is that by removing the larger size FPGA from the base unit, we were able to opt for a higher clock-speed dual core chip rather than a slower quad-core chip for the main CPU, which now opens up the door to more demanding systems like Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, and more — which is what many people have expressed to us that they want.
Multicarts will be tested on a game by game basis and a compatibility list will be produced for all systems prior to the launch of Polymega™, but we only can confirm compatibility with officially licensed games at this point in time.
What hardware does Polymega™ use?
Processor: Intel® CM8068403377713
Memory: 4GB DDR4 RAM
Connectivity: HDMI, 802.11G WiFi, Bluetooth 3.0, USB 2.0, Polymega™ Expansion Bus
On-board Storage: 16GB eMMC Flash Memory
Expansion Storage: Up to 512GB MicroSD via SD Card expansion slot
Optical Drive: 8X CD/DVD Slot-in Optical Disc Drive
Architecture: x86
OS: Proprietary Linux-based.
User Interface: Richter (Proprietary)
Emulators: Mix of Proprietary & Licensed.
While Polymega™ has vastly increased its single core performance clock speed, we’ve reduced the number of cores available for non-emulation system processes such as encoding video for streaming. That means the previously planned streaming features will now move back into the experimental column until we can determine that it is fully compatible when the machine is running computationally demanding emulators such as Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, and N64 in the future. With Polymega™’s current set of supported systems, we believe this feature can be optimized enough to deliver it as a post-launch update, but depending on the systems unlocked during the pre-order rewards, the testing requirements may change. We will keep you posted after the completion of the pre-order campaign.
(sorry about the formatting, for some reason it got all screwy when I pasted it in)
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So why do you think they felt the need to obscure the chipset and component dates? We already know it's running circa 2016 tech. Are they concerned about being caught in another lie about the custom board just for their new high tech project?
After checking out the pictures, it's just a stock AMD CPU development board. There's nothing Atari-custom about it. All they did was buy / loan a dev board from AMD, install an operating system and run existing applications. This is little more than someone buying a motherboard from Newegg, plugging some things into it, installing Windows and running Steam. This must've taken them what, 4-5 hours tops?
You can see a similar dev board here for another AMD CPU:
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-shows-32nm-fusion-llano-apus-running-avp_1443
They photoshopped out the part/model number, because you'd been able to search for it and see that it's just a stock board AMD uses for development. If this was designed for Atari, wouldn't it have their name/logo on it?
This is barely one step up from the Chameleon- they showed off a PCI card. Atari's just showing off the motherboard instead of an expansion card. :-)
Hah, for kicks I searched ebay. This board looks extremely similar (albeit in red instead of green), but most of the stuff is in the same place. The same power supplies, little plug in boards, heatsink/fan, connectors, parts, the works. Checking the stuff they photoshopped out, one of the things is the date. I think it is just about readable near the ©. So much for a "prototype"!
I am not sure what the extensions on their PCB are, with all the jumpers and connectors, but it seems "added on" to the above ebay board's design. All the little buttons/connectors/jumpers all match up between the two boards. I am curious now what CPU that really is now. Them photoshopping the name/number off is quite suspicious, because it has the part number and chip name, going by the ebay board. I just can't get over how the two boards are nearly identical... lol.
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I just picked up an MP1000! Kevtris, I'd love it if you could post the materials you mentioned regarding an A/V mod.
I found it again. The datasheet for the video chip (a MC6847) has the schematic for getting composite video out. It's here:
It is on page 524 of the PDF (3-480 in the databook). The video chip is an MC6847. They use the video modulator chip to generate the composite. Fortunately, that chip is right on the pcb (MC1372) so you do not need to buy it. I removed all the parts connected to pins 8, 10, 12, 13, and 14 of that chip, and then used the holes from the removed parts to build the circuit they show. They use a 1N3064 diode, but you can use a 1N4148 or similar signal diode instead. They show a 2N4401/4403 which is pretty common (and the two transistors I tend to use for NPN/PNP respectively), but any small signal transistors should work, such as the 2N3904/3906 or other similar TO-92 transistors.
What they are doing is disabling the RF portion of the MC1372, so that you get baseband video out of it, instead of the usual channel 3/4 stuff. The datasheet for the MC1372 is here for reference:
https://console5.com/techwiki/images/f/f8/MC1372.pdf
If you still have issues I can take pictures of my mod, but I just followed the schematic they list in the datasheet for the MC6847 video chip.
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OK ... I'll say it.
@kevtris you are a genius but that sleeveless kinda tie dye t-shirt has got to go
haha I like it! I should've worn my Zimba Labs t-shirt. oh well, I didn't think about it. I thought the video was going to be focused on my head so the shirt wouldn't matter so much. That and it's really hot up in my work room, 80-85F is typical so I have to dress for the occasion.
I haven't seen him in an interview for quite awhile. It looks like he lost weight. I really like the interviews he does. It is so interesting to hear about how some of the development works.
I did, I lost 50 pounds in the last 7-8 months or so using the "kevtris diet". (the secret is eating less, zero snacks,and no sugar sodapop. some exercise can't hurt either). I want to get rid of another 20 or so to get to my target weight. Started out at 220, 170 now and I want to be 150.
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I see. The beef is that once a hobbyist is co-opted by corporate religion, the creativity and support in a product diminishes. Kevtris' skill is 100% hobby generated - now under corporate control.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I have to put food on the table and pay the mortgage and pay my bills. You might not see it as a "real" job, but I sure do- I have to work hours, meet goals, pay taxes, and all that. Why don't YOU release your own FPGA videogame systems to compete if you have such a beef with it, or bankroll me if you don't like where I spend my hours.
When it was just a hobby project, things were a lot different. I had months and years to work on things without a deadline. With deadlines, it's no longer "fun" as before, and is a defacto job that I HAVE to get done in a certain time frame with no excuses. Even the thing you love the most can turn into drudgery if you HAVE to get it done and are under time and other pressures to produce.
Without Analogue, I seriously doubt you'd be able to buy any of my work today. Being able to create things and get them released, AND get paid is a pretty awesome thing.
As for support, I think I have provided excellent "after release" support so far. There's been many updates released for the nt mini and super nt since their initial release. I do plan on getting back to both at some point when I get time. The problem is time is a huge concern right now and there's only so many hours in the day. I was hoping to add Intellivision to the nt mini for example, but I got hung up with some hard debugging on another project, so the time window I had to add it closed. By the time I was done with the debug job, I had to move right to the next thing.
I am a perfectionist but I have to temper it with time constraints unfortunately. Sorry 'bout that.
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@kevtris
I know you can't talk about WHAT you are working on, but can you talk about WHEN we should expect it?
Doesn't have to be precise but is it something for the holidays or earlier or maybe next year ... something like that.
yeah sorry I am under an NDA so I can't say squat unfortunately.
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I remember "All Electronics" (discount electronics parts catalog) back in the early 2000's (I want to say 2000 or 2001) was actually selling the consoles and controllers separately as "parts" (meaning no retail box/packaging). They were all brand new never used. The consoles were only like $7.00 each and the controllers were (I want to say) $2.00 each. I actually bought five consoles and five controllers. I never heard of the console before and in 2010 I got rid of them as I never found any games for it. I held on to those things for about 10 years and now games are starting to surface.
BTW, don't go to All Electronics looking for them as they no longer have any for sale.
Yep, I bought several back when they had them. I am fairly sure the console itself was $4.99. it came with a warranty card and was in a plastic bag. They were mint/brand new condition. Someone bought all the controllers thinking they were snes compatible, from what I recall. I managed to get 1 or 2 though before that happened.
Inside the console itself, it's a tour de force of UMC parts. All the RAM chips, asics, RAMDAC (video), etc. were made by UMC. The cartridges have a lockout chip on that too which I haven't investigated a whole lot. It seems to use A0/D0 and 2 or 3 signals to the ASIC from what I recall. Without the chip, the system won't boot.
I dumped 9 or 10 of the carts and own a few. Fortunately they had standard 16 bit mask ROMs in them in DIP packages.
And before anyone asks, yes I would like to FPGAize it some day. lol.
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I'm listening to the Tipster "debate" and the dude trying to defend AtariBox is getting dumber by the minute. His premise seems to be "waaah, people are calling this a scam and that's not fair. Who cares that they don't answer questions? Everyone needs to wait until they're ready to share. Michael answers the questions -- he said he can't answer them! What is wrong with people?"
It's fine to make everyone wait for information. That is, until money changes hands. Once it happens, that is the point they need to be up front and answer questions, especially important ones like what the product is actually going to be and what it is going to do.
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Sorry about the lack of updates and radio silence but I've been hard at work on stuff and can't really discuss anything. I haven't forgotten about anyone, but I am busy working all the time again.
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The PolyMega forum seems to be four or five pigeons and an admin who tells everyone to read the FAQ, believe, and stop asking questions.
Basically, where the Ataribox was three months ago.
Don't forget the haters from Atariage, too! I have to say that was the first time I had seen the words "kevtris" and "lust" in the same sentence though. chortle. Cue the "Official Atariage Hater's Brigade" badge.
http://polymega.com/forums/topic/hybrid-emulation/page/2/#post-32746
(I have a screenshot in case it gets edited)
Re: someone asked earlier in the thread what I thought about their PCB. Well, it's obviously a development board and not anything finished. It has a Xilinx Spartan 6, and appears to be an XC6SLX25T in a 484 BGA, so 24K LEs, 958K bit BRAM, and 250 IOs. The board has two .1" ribbon cable connectors on it (similar to IDE cables) which I assume would connect to the modules, and everything else seems to be what I thought it was last time. I see what looks like a serial configuration flash ROM, a bunch of power supplies and lots of test points and some LEDs. It's interesting that they showed this board off but not what it plugs into. This is just a development board though, so it will obviously be vastly shrunk down with all/most of the test points and LEDs removed, and different connectors that would plug into the modules. I'd hope some major cost reduction on the power supplies too.
As it is, the modules most likely cannot directly plug into this board, since this board is designed for ribbon cables by the looks of it. Of course this is all just a bunch of guessing so take what you will from that.
I found a good high-rez picture of the PCB here:
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By the way, yesterday I got the same Atari VCS commercial prefacing my desired YouTube video thrice in a row. I understand that might be due to I'm logged into my Google account all the time and it collects data about every page I visit and tries to display relevant commercials to me. Since I've barely visited the Indiegogo site but are reading this thread almost daily, I take it Google counts that anyone who reads and posts in this thread might be a customer of the new Atari conosle that Ataribox, and displays the commercial enough number of times until you have placed an order. So much for Atari's opinion we're all haters over here in that case.
That, and several vcs youtube videos have been embedded in the thread, so google is most likely tracking that way, too.
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thanks! I just turned prefetching off in FF now as well.
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After I upgraded to the latest version of Firefox awhile back, I keep getting the following message sometimes:
"Prefetching or precaching is not allowed. If you have Google Accelerator enabled, please disable"
I am using Firefox, so I am not using Google Accelerator. This happens if I visit the last page of a thread and hit the "previous page" link, then hit back on my browser (to go to the last page of the thread so I can read it in order). i.e. if a thread has 150 pages, I click the "last page" link in the forum thread list, then hit "previous page" to go to page 149, then "previous page" again to go to page 148, which would be where I left off reading it.
After reading page 148, I hit back on the browser which should take me to page 149, but instead I get the above message. I have to refresh the page and then the page is viewable. Likewise, hitting back again should get me now to page 150 which is the end of the thread, so hitting back once more returns me to the forum thread list. The weird thing is the previous pages should be precached by my browser anyways as I visited them in reverse order. I guess I tend to view the ends of forum threads in RPN format.
Not all the time will it give this error, but it's been happening for over a month now since I upgraded Firefox. I have been reading forums in this fashion for quite awhile now and haven't had any problems up to that point. It does not happen on any other forum.
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Speaking of copyrights and licensing, did Hyperkin ever resolve the issue with using open source emulator code without attribution or licensing on the Retron 5? Several of the emulators used had no commercial used allowed clauses in their licensing terms including Genesis Plus GX and SNES9X.
https://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-license-violations/
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re: modding the APF for composite video, it is possible and I did do the modification. The data sheet for the video chip has a schematic for doing it, which is what I followed. All the parts to do the modification are inside the system already (it repurposes the RF modulator chip) so just a few parts are needed to do it. I ended up desoldering the un-needed parts and using the existing holes for the new parts to add the mod with a minimal amount of extra wiring. And no hot melt required.
I can post pics if anyone is interested and scare up the datasheet too probably.
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Those piezo discs had really rotten attachment, so it's a common problem for the wire to fall off. You can't solder it back on once it falls off, at least the point where it rips off. You can attempt to solder it to a new section that's silvered, but it will be really tough and it will probably fall off again. Fortunately those discs are replaceable with new ones that don't have this issue. Conductive epoxy might work pretty good vs. soldering, but I have not tried it.
The problem is the disc is brass, with a ceramic crystal on it, and the top of said crystal is metalized, and the metalization is silver usually. It is poorly attached and it will just fall off real easy, especially at the age those things are now.
Looks like they are all over ebay, in various sizes for cheap. Look for "piezo disc".
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I saw a post recently wondering if all the positive reception to the video showing the circuit board was real. I can speak for myself and say my response was tepid. I have an account on Polymega and check the forums a couple times a week. I'd say I've had half or more of my posts on forums not show up, including one on that exact thread. The reason why I don't know.
It sounds like they are vetting all the posts to the forum then, to prevent anything they perceive as negative getting through. Not saying that's what they are doing but it does sound fairly suspicious.
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Pretty sure Kevtris doesn't even know what "NT" stands for.
Definitely not Nintendo however, lol.
I know what it stands for, but I can't tell ya :-)
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A friend found this. wonder if they got the idea from here? It's a two-part board; a plug in part and the base part, called the "larg" (cringe at the name). The base + plugin looks like this:
The plugin board itself:
And a flyer about the system here (with a few more pics)
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/762/LARG2_FLYER-962367.pdf
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Yeah I'm kicking around, reading the thread every day but busy working on stuff I can't talk about :-)
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looool! Is this like Krusty the Klown's endorsement of the Ribwich? "I don't mind the taste!"
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Introducing Project PEGASUS at PRGE and RetroWorldExpo 2018...
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
Why are all the chip labels obscured and/or photoshopped out? Not trying to cause trouble, but I suggest not using 1990's era chips like that 64 pin shrink DIP. Unless you have a huge stock of known good ones, getting those in production is going to be extremely difficult. Going by the specs, it's probably one of those Yamaha MSX(2) chips like a Y8950. Those are going to be unobtanium for anything over a few dozen to hundred boards. Your supplier might give you a "chip shaped object" with the correct number laser engraved on it but it will be different silicon, rejects, or worse. I've been burned by this before and it wasn't fun. Anyways, keep up the good work!
btw, the NES has 5 audio channels, and the SMS has 4.