old Atari's on modern tv's?

[old Atari's on modern tv's?]

Hey all... I just posted a bunch of scope shots in the "Hardware" section (arguably more appropriate for here)

 

I have (2) samsung monitors (both are the TV tuner models with comp/YC video inputs) and neither work.

We're talking the 150MP and 710MP models. Both models are circa 2001...

 

I even tried a Hauppage USB Video Capture converter. It didn't work either.

 

I also have a Toshiba 42" Regza TV (42HL167) with a full complement of Composite and Y/C inputs.. it's a bust too.

 

On a brighter note, my Epson S4 projector works fabulously.

 

 

Turns out the reasons the atari's make so many monitors unhappy is because the Atari 8bit computers don't put out a proper NTSC video signal.

 

1) There's only 1 field instead of 2.

2) The Vsync's serration isn't quite right.

 

Looks like a bunch of TV's aren't exactly happy with this "shortcut" or inconsistency from decades ago.

 

[Atari 8bit Y/C (S-Video) Issues with Various LCD Monitors]

Well, I think I've figured out the problem... and it's 2 fold...

 

1: The Atari does not put out both fields. Only field 1.

2: The Atari doesn't look to have standard sync pulses which are space at 2x Hsync rate (31.5KHz)

 

(see the attached) -- I can see why a standard strict NTSC Video Decoder would be unhappy with this.

 

Hopefully this helps others...

[Atari 8bit Y/C (S-Video) Issues with Various LCD Monitors]

here's the composite out of the 130XE and 800 loaded with 50ohms

(it's what's on the scope -- better than x10 probe but looks about the same)

 

The Vsync is 59.925Hz and the HSync is 15.725KHz, Vpeak is about 900mV

 

 

On the 800, the Vsync & HSync are essentially the same, Vpeak is about 600mV with the SuperSalt cartridge plugged in.

 

There's a little more over/undershoot with the 130xe... but they look pretty good.

[Atari 8bit Y/C (S-Video) Issues with Various LCD Monitors]

I haven't started digging into this deeply yet, but I thought I'd ask here to see if there's additional information in someone's brain out there..

 

(I search the forum and haven't found anything particularly similar to my problem... so here goes)

 

I have both an Atari 800 and 130xe.

 

In days of old, I used to use a Thompson monitor that had Y/C inputs on it. T'was fabulous. That monitor is long gone.

 

These days, I have (2) Samsung 150MP's (15" LCD's w/both Y/C & Composite Inputs) and a 710MP (same deal, but 17" LCD).

All the Samsungs are from the days of analog TV, so they even have analog tuners in them (haven't tried that though).

 

I also have an Epson EMP-S4 projector and a Toshiba 42" HDTV.

 

I also have (for fun) a Happuage NTSC (Y/C & Composite) ->USB video digitizer.

 

I've tried the 130Xe in both composite and Y/C mode on the Hauppage as well as Samsung and Toshiba sets and the video looks like crap to unreadable.

 

The Epson Projector? Looks AWESOME. (has like a 30ft cable through the ceiling run to it.)

 

The Atari800 also looks like dirt on the Samsungs/Hauppage as well.

 

I have a MythTV system I used for S-Video to the projector normally. It looks swell -- but on the samsungs looks "mehM.. (not unviewable, but there's definitely noise) - that same signal looks fabulous on the Happuage digitizer.

 

So you can see where I'm going. Between (2) Atari's that seem to be working fine and a handful of displays, the results are wide and varied.

 

I'm going to get some scope shots up of the Atari output signals at some point..but in the meantime, I thought I'd ask folks if they had similar issues with monitors where your source looks great on one set, but lousy on another -- and if you managed to determine why.

 

Thanks,

 

-Ben

[Noob Question on Atari Date support]

That's actually not a bad idea.

 

I think I might do the same -- but with a batter mounted by the new CF drive that replaced my failed Conner... so I can easily replace the batt.

 

Like you, I love my Dremel tool!!

[Noob Question on Atari Date support]

Actually, TOS date format can go up to 1980+127 = 2107, because it starts at 1980, and 7 bits are given for year.

But most of SW is not ready for years above 2000.

What was the reason ? Lazyness, don't care, or similar. Or nobody wise expected that people will still use 'those' computers after 2000

 

Ok.. Good to know as well.

 

On the Falcon030, I just reloaded the new flash disk since the Conner drive died. So I've not yet installed all the goodies yet.

I have original copies of warp9 and multidesk and so forth. I'll tackle the NVRAM/RTC item first -- which will require the soldering work.

 

On the ST though, the ICD AdSCSI Plus has an Oki58321 (for which I got the datasheet) and only supports YY for the year. So while the STe's default is only to show that format (via the xcontrol.acc), I'm thinking underneath the real problem is the OKI RTC. Does anyone know if the ICD can be retrofitted with something else (and ICD 6.5.5a supports it)??

 

OR, is it just better to use some other form of RTC?

 

Thanks a bunch,

 

-Ben

[Noob Question on Atari Date support]

You need to replace the NVRAM/Clock chip on the Falcon. It is a big 24 pin chip sized plastic block near the front of the motherboard (DS1287).

The exact chip is no longer made, but you can replace it with a Maxim/Dallas DS12887A

 

Unfortunately, it is not socketed.

 

No biggie. I got all the electronics repair stuff downstairs. I think I even have a replacement dallas IC for it. (they have those pesky built in batteries that die after like 10yrs. Boo)

[Noob Question on Atari Date support]

Hey all,

 

I've just recently resurrected my Atari's from storage.... (my Falcon030's Conner drive bit the dust -- but not my 1040STe's Quantum!!)

 

On the Falcon, I haven't dug deep yet, but I believe it had an RTC like the Dallas sort with internal battery. Yea, it's dead. Falcon030 doesn't keep time. What have you folks done to solve this?

 

On the 1040STe, the AdSCSI Plus attached to it is working fine -- but it seems I can't set the date to "07/10/12" -- and have it stick. (The time seems to save as expected)

 

I'm running ICD SCSI Pro 6.2.0 ( original license! but have downloaded 6.5.5a) -- will the STe support a 2012 date properly?

 

Next -- out comes the my 130xe (w/ICD MIO -> Adaptec -> Seagate ST-251 setup) But that's for another the 8bit list.

 

Cheers and thanks,

 

-Ben

[Linus Torvolds and Atari ST stop MS patent!]

that's pretty awesome -- I know I've seen patents for things like "games" running over "networks" in the late 90's and early 00's... when we were playing games over our modems or MIDI lans (MIDI-Maze comes to mind as well as cold revenge)

 

hehe... go Linus.