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  • Birthday 02/15/1961

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  1. Slight correction. The C64 climbed to 95 degrees in 40 minutes and stayed there until it hit 96 degrees just before the 60 minute mark. The graph doesn't show 1 degree movements and seems to be in 2 degree resolution. You can see it "flatline" at 40 minutes.
  2. Here is this your suggested run with the C64 sitting at the ready prompt only. As you predicted, it's very similar. I had to replace the probe so there's no knowing whether it was slightly closer to the 6510 or not. The blue (C64 internal probe) climbed from 73 degrees to 96 degrees in an hour. After starting the fan at the 60 minute mark, it dropped to 89 degrees at 80 minutes in and stayed there until the full 120 minutes was up. It never went below 89 but the drop from 96 degrees was clear. Ambient (external orange probe) started at 73 and ended at 75 over the course of the two hours.
  3. Hello TZJB! I don't have a photo of the 600XL "geared up" but I can take one and upload it at my next opportunity. The hookup is using the AtariLab with Temperature module set up in a standard configuration with only one unusual addition. The standard setup for the Temperature module is the ROM cart it comes with, the breakout box, and one temperature probe plugged into joystick port #2. The only thing I've added -- and that I don't see any mention of in the manual -- is the addition of a 2nd probe that can be plugged into the breakout box and runs along side of the first one such that the program can measure two temperature probes (called blue and orange) at the same time. The retail package only comes with one probe so I assume users may have been able to purchase a 2nd one optionally but I'm not aware of any retail packaging on adding a 2nd probe that ever came out. The ROM cart and breakout box are all set up for a second probe, however, if you have one. It would be very interesting to program the Atari to vary the fan speed based on temperature thresholds but the ROM cart it comes with has no such ability. A custom program would need to be written that could work with the probe(s) and joystick breakout box. I don't think there's any technical limitation to doing so, simply a bit of research and thinking about how to make it all flow. As far as probe locations, the external one simply lays outside of the C64 bread bin about 8" away from it, not touching anything but air. The internal probe goes though the gap in case near the expansion slot with the tip of the probe suspended just a bit above the 6510. I intend to run the experiment again with a different position and orientation of the fan to see if I can get a lower temperature by varying where the fan extracts the air.
  4. I used a 600XL to measure the internal case air temperature of a C64 while it was searching for prime numbers during a two hour period. Here’s what I discovered. I ran the experiment with one probe sitting outside of the case and one probe inside the case. The ambient room temperature was 74 at the beginning of the experiment and rose to 75 at twenty-two minutes in. It varied between 74 and 75 degrees until thirty-two minutes in and then remained at 75 for the duration of the experiment. The internal case temperature also started at 74 degrees but quickly rose 10 degrees to 84 degrees in twelve minutes after the machine was switched on and began running a BASIC program that finds prime numbers. It rose more slowly an additional 10 degrees to 94 degrees at fifty-four minutes in to the experiment. The internal case temperature was at 94 degrees at sixty minutes in when I turned on a small USB-powered fan I have installed in the case. The temperature began to immediately drop and was at 91 degrees in five minutes. At eighty-four minutes in — twenty-four minutes after turning on the fan — the internal temperature had dropped to 88 degrees where it remained steady until one-hundred and twenty minutes in at the end of the experiment. Over all, the fan created a 6 degree drop in the internal case temperature. The fan is located at the rear of the motherboard and faces upwards to blow towards the native vent slots in the rear part of the top cover. Pictured (Atari 600XL; RF - Channel 3; Hitachi Ultravision) is the table showing the fifteen minutes between 60 and 74 minutes when I switch in the fan and the temperature begins to drop. Also pictured (Atari 600XL; RF - Channel 3; Hitachi Ultravision) is the chart showing the full time/temperature graph. The 3rd picture is the Commodore 64 (S-Video; Hitachi Ultravision) finding prime number 3041 in two hours running Commodore BASIC.
  5. I used a 600XL to measure the internal case air temperature of a C64 while it was searching for prime numbers during a two hour period. Here’s what I discovered. I ran the experiment with one probe sitting outside of the case and one probe inside the case. The ambient room temperature was 74 at the beginning of the experiment and rose to 75 at twenty-two minutes in. It varied between 74 and 75 degrees until thirty-two minutes in and then remained at 75 for the duration of the experiment. The internal case temperature also started at 74 degrees but quickly rose 10 degrees to 84 degrees in twelve minutes after the machine was switched on and began running a BASIC program that finds prime numbers. It rose more slowly an additional 10 degrees to 94 degrees at fifty-four minutes in to the experiment. The internal case temperature was at 94 degrees at sixty minutes in when I turned on a small USB-powered fan I have installed in the case. The temperature began to immediately drop and was at 91 degrees in five minutes. At eighty-four minutes in — twenty-four minutes after turning on the fan — the internal temperature had dropped to 88 degrees where it remained steady until one-hundred and twenty minutes in at the end of the experiment. Over all, the fan created a 6 degree drop in the internal case temperature. The fan is located at the rear of the motherboard and faces upwards to blow towards the native vent slots in the rear part of the top cover. Pictured (Atari 600XL; RF - Channel 3; Hitachi Ultravision) is the table showing the fifteen minutes between 60 and 74 minutes when I switch in the fan and the temperature begins to drop. Also pictured (Atari 600XL; RF - Channel 3; Hitachi Ultravision) is the chart showing the full time/temperature graph. The 3rd picture is the Commodore 64 (S-Video; Hitachi Ultravision) finding prime number 3041 in two hours running Commodore BASIC.
  6. I really do attempt to avoid any mods that are 'one way' but in this case it was pretty much pure old fashioned laziness on my part! Dremel, BZZZT, done!
  7. Hmmm...more testing needed but using the Atarilab Temperature cart and breakout box with two (calibrated) temperature probes, I've discovered that the interior temperature of this case was much higher than I originally thought. Specifically, in a room with an ambient temperature of 71F, the interior probe indicated 87F! An interior airspace 16 degrees higher than ambient seems pretty warm for an 800XL. This was measured over a 2 hour period. The interior stabilized its climb at about an hour and a half. Not surprising that the results may have changed from my first test as I changed the location of the interior probe so that it was a bit further into the case with the end suspended in the air and not touching any components directly. Formerly, it may have been just barely touching the plastic on the cart surround. I have small heat sinks on all of the main 800XL chips that get warm at all so I'm not too worried about overheating but I think the issue may be that this case has almost zero airflow and any ventilation is purely incidental in terms of ports, the narrow seam around the outer edge and the keyboard, etc. I also experimented to see if the blue LED strip was contributing any heat and discovered that, no, not really. I turned off the strip and ran the machine measuring the temp and it remained at 87F for the next hour with the LED off. So...thinking about maybe drilling some small, discrete holes right under the chin of the case so room air can enter there and at least have a chance to escape around the keyboard? Without a cart inserted, the aluminum flaps really seal up the cart port. With a cart inserted there are two small areas for warm air to escape but not much. Right now, I assume room air is entering from the expansion area and attempting to get out around the cart but little else is moving inside the case. Thoughts? Should I just not worry about the heat? What about some summer gaming in a room with a warm ambient temp? I assume the interior might push close to the upper 90's in that case...(fun pun!)
  8. Hello Crossbow! The Dremel cut it off like a red hot knife through butter so I wasn't worried about damaging anything. And you're correct, I never use RF on this machine and if I ever do use RF, the channel switch can be moved with just a fingernail at this point.
  9. Thanks, vespertillio! Here's the blue LED strip I used. I cut a single strip that when from one side of the keyboard from the other -- basically just from CAPS to CONTROL underneath. https://www.amazon.com/KXZM-Powered-640LEDs-Brightness-Flexible/dp/B09XDJG6XL/ref=sr_1_5?crid=E59FZC8R2B2H&keywords=KXZM+DC+5V+USB+COB+Blue+LED&qid=1679283608&sprefix=kxzm+dc+5v+usb+cob+blue+led+%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-5
  10. I purchased and installed one of the Plexilaser clear cases for the 800XL and wanted to share some pictures and experiences after assembling it. https://www.plexilaser.de/shop/Acrylgehaeuse-fuer-ATARI-800XL-Teilesatz First, this is a very nice case; it’s thick and perfectly clear with no fogging or scratches upon arrival. Unfortunately, all of the instructions are in German. In the modern era isn’t that much of an issue. However, the instructions are confusing even if written in perfect English, and therefore weren’t any better under translation. Therefore, I had to pick my way through what to do largely on my own. But once you understand one or two principles as to how this case goes together, it’s not difficult. The case occasionally feels like it’s not going to fit and/or fight you but ultimately it fits together with impressive precision. The first odd issue I encountered is that since this case if evidently cut for the European market, there is no accommodation for the 2|3 RF channel switch on the rear panel. This is not a problem that can be ignored. The rear panel absolutely will not fit unless you do one of two things: drill a hole in the acrylic case or lop off the RF switch. My 800XL has the UAV S-video upgrade but also still has the RF output (this is my original machine from the early 80’s). I decided to Dremel off the switch for a couple of reasons: first, I wasn’t sure how drilling a hole in the acrylic was ultimately going to look and secondly, I really never use the RF on this machine and if I needed the switch to move, it’s still there just sort of cut down flush. After cutting off the RF channel switch, the back panel fit fine. Fitting the motherboard to the base plate was odd as well. There are about 9 or 10 attachment points but I only had about 5 that lined up with the pre-drilled holes in the acrylic plate. It worked out as the motherboard was well attached and stable enough with just the screws I could fit. It appears that I could drill holes in the motherboard just above the posts where there was no hole, but since it didn’t seem necessary, and I didn’t want to nick an electrical artery, I decided against messing with it. Another early worry was related to plugging things into ports, etc. but all of the ports are cut nice and open so joysticks, SIO, power, monitor, even the expansion port don’t seem to have any edge or blockage issues with stuff being plugged in. Some users report that the keyboard can be difficult to attach and I see what they mean. Of all of the stuff that has to line up, the 4 keyboard mounts are the most dicey. Plexilaser seems to be aware of this and advises that you may have to widen the mounting holes to get them directly lined up with the screws. I found this to be true and had to widen the holes on the keyboard just a bit using a Dremel. After that, one of the tiny machine screws that are used exclusively in this project started to pass through the widened hold so I had to use one of the mounting nuts as a washer. After that easy adjustment, the keyboard attached firmly. To keep dust and static electricity tamped down, I used an anti-static and anti-dust cleaner on each piece as I worked to attach it. This seemed to help as the static electricity on this pure acrylic is enormous! I really should have used an anti-static wrist strap but didn’t. I gave myself a bit of a scare as I was attaching the rear plate and my finger went POW as a serious static spark snapped from my finger to one of the fingers on the expansion connector! Likely the most aggravating part of this assembly was working with the aluminum cartridge flaps. It was hard to know the best way to get these in place with the springs under tension. One thing I did was coat the part of the sharp spring that was in contact with the acrylic with a couple of coats of Elmer’s glue. This prevented it from scratching the acrylic when assembling the thing. This is a fiddly job, no question. I’m not sure that there’s a ‘best’ way to do it -- whatever works for you. I did discover that the axles of the flaps are just sitting in their laser cut holes with nothing to keep them there so they *can* slide out and go BOING over time if the flap has too much side movement when under use. I suppose you could block the holes on the outer sides once installed to prevent this but I didn’t do this as of yet. Which leads me to another observation: if you’re the kind of person who likes to get in and out of your case often or if you like to access your motherboard for fiddling around with it or physical upgrades or tweaks, this case doesn’t accommodate easy access at all. Once your motherboard is in there, it’s a lot of screws and adjusting stuff into place to keep it in there. It’s the opposite of simply taking out those 3 cheap screws on the leading edge of a Commodore 64 to ‘pop the hood’. If you want to physically access your motherboard, you’ll need a little bit of time and space to ‘undo’ having placed it in this acrylic ‘tomb’. Another slightly aggravating design choice is the need to sort of ‘float’ the attachment nuts in a little spot made for them on each attachment point and then to descend on them from above with the screw and hope the two mate before the nut plops right out into the already largely sealed case so that you can have fun shaking it out of the case and starting over. Fortunately, I was very careful with this and had few problems but I can see how this could become aggravating to someone with less than steady hands. My final ‘upgrade’ was to attach a blue 5V USB LED strip under the keyboard with hot glue. I routed the cord out of the expansion port opening and just wanted it as a separate ‘option’ to have on or off. I thought about tying it into the motherboard’s 5V rail or etc but then I’d need a switch if I didn’t want it on while using the computer so I just sort of went super simple and just plug it in if I want it lit up. I think blue was a good choice but I assume green or red might look cool too. I used the Atarilab temperature probe such that the 800XL could measure its own internal temperature (literally insert your own joke here). The probe was located just behind the cartridge port inside the case by slotting it through the cutout for the expansion port. In a room with an ambient temperature of 74 degrees, the internal temperature registered 81, fluctuating to 82. So…internal case temps may be 7 degrees above ambient room temperature after a couple of hours of running? So that’s it. The typing angle changes slightly but you get used to it immediately. I think the machine looks great now. The blue glow is much more subtle than the photos suggest. My iPhone camera really doesn't seem to know what to do with this blue glow. Hopefully, the pictures give you a sense of what it looks like, however. Only two very slight mods were needed: the lopping off of the RF switch (which is still there though) and the slight widening of two of the keyboard mounting holes to remedy the slight misalignment of the small posts shipped with the case. If you already own this case or if you move your 800XL into one, let me know.
  11. Yes, hard to choose among so many genres but for SHEER JOY I would have to go with the 2 human player version of Ballblazer. If you get someone who is very, very close to you in skill it can really lead to tired fingers and broken joysticks as you REALLY lean into those runs down the grid and the heart pumping take it or lose it desperation shot with only fractions of a second left on the clock!
  12. My TI-99/4A's built in BASIC and then onto the Atari 800 with Atari BASIC.
  13. Damn. Accidentally posted this in the High Score Club folder. I can't see how to delete or move to another topic. If a moderator wants to move this post elsewhere, please do.
  14. I was hoping that artificial intelligence would FINALLY put this debate to rest. I was wrong. Here is ChatGPT's weigh-in on this classic battle: The 800XL vs. the C64 ChatGPT: "Both the Atari 800XL and the Commodore 64 were popular home computers of the 1980s, and each had its own strengths and weaknesses. The Atari 800XL was an updated version of the Atari 800, released in 1983, had more memory and a more compact design, which made it more user-friendly and more affordable than its predecessor. It also had advanced graphics and sound capabilities, with the ability to display up to 512 colors and support for stereo sound. Additionally, it had a wide range of software available, including many popular games. The Commodore 64, released in 1982, was considered to be a more powerful computer than the Atari 800XL. It featured a powerful 6510 processor, 64 kilobytes of RAM, and advanced graphics and sound capabilities, including a 3-channel sound and hardware sprites. It also had a wide range of software available, including games, productivity applications, and programming languages. It's difficult to say which one is the best, as it depends on the user's perspective and the use case. The Atari 800XL was more focused on gaming, had a more user-friendly design, and was more affordable. The Commodore 64, on the other hand, was more powerful, had more memory, and had a larger software library, including more advanced programming languages and tools. Ultimately, both computers were popular and well-regarded in their time and both have a strong following even today, the choice between the Atari 800XL or the Commodore 64 would depend on the user's needs and preferences."
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