Zzyorxx II and Burnout Preview Released

[Zzyorxx II and Burnout Preview Released]

Thanks...

 

Here's a book I use to read almost religiously back in the mid 90s... I originally wanted to do comic book art at first; this book called "How to Draw The Marvel Way" really is a great starting point. It gives you all of the bare essentials for drawing anything. They also made a VHS I use to rent from the local library a lot. I'll post them both for reference sake.

 

 

https://archive.org/details/howtodrawcomicsm00stan?q=the+marvel+way

[Zzyorxx II and Burnout Preview Released]

I use to tinker with and old "IBM 386" with Windows 3.1 around 95 or 96. Before than I use to do art work using Mario Paint and found that the Mario Paint tool-set was better than the Windows standard paint, but I learned a whole lot using both. Here's some work I did using Win3.1 paint using 16 colors and lots and lots of diskettes. I was dreaming up game designs even then, but never went all the way with it (too busy working); certainly won't let that happen again.

 

Enjoy.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

I've seen SSD kits on ebay for the Cojag arcade boards where you can load games on an SSD hard drive... I thought that was pretty interesting.

[Polygons (2d or 3d)]

Although I know the GPU is highly capable of doing 3D on it's own merit, I'm more of an "audio and visual" person starting off as comic book artist in my highschool year until I took up "Computer Aided Drafting" due to the lack of jobs for comic artist in my state... Even with computer animators and digital artist, the school I went to also had cgi and animation course and I hear about talanted artist who struggle to get real jobs in the art field; it seems that cgi artist are becoming a dime a dozen these days with everyone wanting in on the cgi and gaming bandwagon... It just isn't a sustainable field in some areas.

 

Getting back on topic, learning to program in Assembler has always been something I've taken interest in more than any other language thus the 68000 seems to be the most stable CPU to learn before drifting off into the other JagRISC... Learning BASIC is on my to-do-list, but it's Assembler that I really want to master to take advantage of the speeds.

 

The API does not render polygons. If you want to do 3D you could use the API to manage the framebuffers and draw the polygons into that. The blitter is available via the API.

 

I've been making plans to make an experimental 3D engine for Raptor using the 68000 as the main processor and as a learning tool for myself personally... But that's a long ways down the road; I have to get to know the API first so a couple or a few classic sprite games are perhaps in order. Is Raptor programming language exclusive to just BASIC or can Assembler be used to control the API in some way?

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

 

Hmmm, To double down the thread flipping...

 

I wonder just how much of a headache porting T2K to a Co-Jag would be. Obviously choose a 68020 based version. Might be a fun oddity to create, especially if you could get the cabinet artwork looking the part and wheel it in-front of Jeff at a show That probably would give him a giggle

 

I'll add it to my ever growing list of bizarre ideas that I'll probably get around to completing sometime after I am dead

 

I've often wish the Co-Jag could be consolized like the Neo Geo just to take advantage of the enhanced hardware and extra ram it has... Not enough retro activity going on concerning the cojag with exception of the "Primal Rage 2" and even with that, they used the R3000 cpu to get the game working right instead of the 68020 version. It would be a dream project for me to make something really good the home console and then ported to the Co-Jag.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

Here's a game that's super rare made by "Capcom" called "Slip Stream" released in 95, which is a pretty late start for such a game during all of the 3D craze that was going on in the arcades at that time, but I guess people were still hitting those soon to be dated games. This game was made using the "Sega System 32 Hardware"; a NEC-60 RISC based system, but the graphic style is very much like "Super Burnout" for the Atari Jaguar without all of the elaborate sprites to simulate bridges and what-have-you like in the game "Power Drift". I think the pseudo 3D effects are considerably done pretty good; it almost has a decent 3D thing going on the way the road and the cars are presented.

 

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

It's not coin op related and i can only assume the original didn't sell in sufficiently well enough to justify a sequel. ...

 

But i so wish Core had done more with this:

 

 

 

Instead we got Herdy Gerdy, Shellshock, Swagman etc..

 

Shame....

 

That brings good memories... I rented that game and the Sega CD system when it first came out. That's more like mode 7 style graphic affects using the CD unit hardware that supported scaling and rotating. What that game company did with "Soulstar' was incredible; Galaxy Force 2 was absolutely possible it's too bad Sega never released their legacy super-scale based games for the CD unit. It would be great for more of the Sega Arcade games were ported to the Jaguar, it might attract more gamers to the system. All of the superscaler arcade stuff is totally possible even if the screen resolution was a little lower to make room for graphics just like it is with this game.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

For 1988, that's crazy impressive!

 

Not even the Sega Saturn could handle an arcade perfect Galaxy Force 2 port. I think it runs at 30 FPS to the arcades 60 FPS. Same thing for Power Drift, runs at half the arcades FPS on Saturn. Those Sega scaler arcade boards were pretty awesome!

 

Both "Galaxy Force 2 and Power Drift" uses the same hardware the "Sega Y Board"... It has three 68000 cpu's; they probably have two of them being used for graphics why one handles the game logic Galaxy Force 1 & 2 are one and the same game like "Afterburner 1 & 2" just slightly different. I think Sega really had a really good grasp on superscalers that seem to be trending around the mid to late 80s. Jeleco's "Cisco Heat" also featured three Motorola 68K chips in them. Was just looking at the Atari ST port it on YouTube which I'll post below. Wikipedia claims that a version for the Jaguar was in the works, but never made the cut; I wonder how that game would've looked?

 

 

https://youtu.be/Kket83oo0OA

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

 

 

I never said the DSP was the only processor to have "specific characteristics" as you put it, I pointed out that it's the best processor to work with on the Jaguar because of those characteristics and even pointed the fact that Atari themselves makes that a highlight of the system. CJ didn't say anything that I didn't already know about; I've talked about in past discussion the issues I had with the 68K being the slowest cpu of them all and not really wanting to use it so naturally the DSP is the best processor, but not the only processor. Dude I'm sorry I make you feel some kind of way due to misconception you have about me; I left the Jag scene at a time when I was getting a better understanding of the system. I admit that back in the day my understanding was lax to say the least, but that's not quite the case today, at least not in the way it was back then... But you're right, I need a proof of concept in code on the stuff I post, but that doesn't mean that my ideas aren't solid... If you got the experience, well then good for you, but don't try and throw my stuff under the bus just because you disagree with me or whatever my concepts represent; One can't fly a plane without reading the manual first.

 

 

???

 

There are moments I do wonder about the Jag forum here at AA... Sometimes it's a great place to be and other times it turns into a rabbit hole. SMH

 

 

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

There's little point in arguing theory with people who know what can and can't be achieved in practice.

It's like going to an aviation forum, and telling pilots "I've never flown a plane, but I've read the manual and here are some stunts that should be totally doable".

The first time, it's cute. But after ten years of seeing it again and again, it gets really tiring.

 

Sorry, but yes, they are. It's been pointed out to you several times already, and CJ just pointed out your error about the DSP being the only processor having specific characteristics.

If you can't get basic stuff right, don't expect others to take you seriously. There is enough misinformation about the Jaguar already.

 

I never said the DSP was the only processor to have "specific characteristics" as you put it, I pointed out that it's the best processor to work with on the Jaguar because of those characteristics and even pointed the fact that Atari themselves makes that a highlight of the system. CJ didn't say anything that I didn't already know about; I've talked about in past discussion the issues I had with the 68K being the slowest cpu of them all and not really wanting to use it so naturally the DSP is the best processor, but not the only processor. Dude I'm sorry I make you feel some kind of way due to misconception you have about me; I left the Jag scene at a time when I was getting a better understanding of the system. I admit that back in the day my understanding was lax to say the least, but that's not quite the case today, at least not in the way it was back then... But you're right, I need a proof of concept in code on the stuff I post, but that doesn't mean that my ideas aren't solid... If you got the experience, well then good for you, but don't try and throw my stuff under the bus just because you disagree with me or whatever my concepts represent; One can't fly a plane without reading the manual first.

 

Am I the first in with a "GPU in Mane" theory?

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

???

 

There moments I do wonder about the Jag forum here at AA... Sometimes it's a great place to be and other times it turns into a rabbit hole. SMH

 

 

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

Opinions are fine for subjective things, like saying "game X is more fun to play than game Y".

For objective things, opinions are pretty much worthless, actual evidence is where it's at.

There are already hundred of pages of uninformed opinions in this forum, we don't need more.

 

What? I don't know what you're reading, but you're reading it wrong.

Reality check: if the DSP was the ideal processor to run everything on, and if that was obvious from the docs, do you really think nobody would have noticed in 25 years?

 

My opinions aren't that uninformed, I give enough information to relay a reasonable idea that's generally feasible in theory not to take away or question any of the programmers here... When I see a good thing I run with it.

 

 

The 68000 is:

 

a 32-bit processor

has full access to main ram unhinged without a workaround at full speed

is on a 16bit bus

can control all the IO ports on the system

 

Just sayin'

 

No argument there man... Well one... It slower and tends to slow the other the processors down when it hits the bus, but has its advantages like taking some work load from the other processors. I'm probably not saying anything you don't already know, but for the sake of clarity and repetitive memory, I bring it up anyway.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

 

Have you downloaded Rb+ yet?

 

I got it... Been making some plans for it. I haven't poke around on it yet, but it's in my scope; first 2D and then 3D stuff once I've got the hang of things. Programming is still the newest of an old concept at this point so I just record ideas so I don't forget them based on Jag manual other sources... I'm bound to hit on something worthwhile. Got things going on in my home life so time can be an issue.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

What exactly do you mean ? Full time dev ? Really ?

Well not full time... Just enough to make some meaningful stuff.

[Arcade to Jaguar ports you would like to see.]

Must be a reading comprehension issue.

 

It's been only last few months that I've been seriously considering full-time jag dev.

 

Same here... At least I'm trying to get to that place.

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

Please, please, please, before offering advice and making plans, make something that can support your opinion.

 

Because right now it's cringeworthy. Do you really think past and current Jaguar developers never read the docs?

 

Well that's why they call this a forum right... So i can put my opinions out there. If opinions can't be freely given, then that defeats the purpose having a forum. You know as well as I know that the DSP is only 32bit processor that have full access to main ram unhinged without a workaround at full speed despite being on a 16bit bus, it's the only processor that controls all of the i/O ports on the system and is sited by Atari themselves for these facts.

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

What gaming history has proven, time and time again, is that superior hardware is often not what wins out. Money for development and marketing, relationships with 3rd party publishers, with retailers, that's what can be the difference. Regardless, the Jaguar was inferior in actual capabilities than the Saturn, Playstation and Nintendo64. It was better than the 3DO, but not by much. It displayed far less colors than the big 3. The polygon count was 10% of those, which is laughable. It had less RAM, and the sound was hideous compared to the others. Having multiple CPU's was also shown to often be a detriment, as the PS1 and N64 were easier to code on than the Saturn.

 

I remember when I first wanted to do Jaguar stuff, I thought the Jag could do what the PlayStation 1 was doing back in the late 90s till I got wise over a period of time... Deep down I wanted the Jag to do something on the level of the PS1 or the Sega Saturn, which it can but with limitations due to all of the hardware issues. The topic is turning into a history topic a bit, but can be very necessary in trying to find out what's actually feasible for the Jaguar and what's not. The PS2 had a crap load of processors in it and was considered hard to program, but was very flexible at the same time with more stuff to work with compared to a single processor 3D game console with a graphics chip. Because of that, the range of what's possible is wider, but for the Jaguar, you actually have to look backwards in time before all of the trendy stuff that was out by SGI, Sun Workstation, and other graphic systems that were out around the Jaguar release in the mid 90s that could do what the Jaguar couldn't do... Maybe a few things you can find here and there from consoles like the PS1, Saturn, and N64 that can be applicable for the Jaguar if you're lucky, but you need a very different and exclusive pipe-line when it comes to the Atari Jaguar. Any modern pipeline even Open GL 1.0 would be a challenge for the Jag without making some very extreme and specific optimizations.

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

Well technically the DSP is the second highest priority on the Jag system, but it has the highest among the other processors.

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

The DSP really is the best processor considering that it's the only chip that has full access to main memory and has the highest system priority... The whole idea of cutting off the 68000 always kind-of rub off as a bit of a waste in resource, but is perfectly understandable when it comes to it slowing the other processors down. At least the 68k has full access to memory versus the GPU. Memory is gold even on a unified architecture; I think all of the real action should happen with the DSP and 68K while GPU just drawing stuff to screen; it's just one big sprite machine with a lot of programmability. I think a decent 3D engine can be made using the just those two processors as a means of taking advantage of the their access to main memory.

[Math FPU]

This is a great topic... I ran into this topic googling FPU. I think today you can use more modern controllers that have FPU on them, which you can get very cheaply. Then there the atmeltiny chips you can buy for less than a dollar in some cases that can be used on an Atari 2600 to help breath some new life into these old system; I have no problems that. I'm still waiting on the Atari 7800 XM module that'll will worthy sound processors for such a graphical 8-bit system with extra ram to do more stuff with the 6502 CPU. I wish I had the skill to do my own cartridge to help enhance the retro Atari 2600 and bring it to the 21st century; call it cheating or whatever, I see no problems using extra hardware even if it is a little overkill for the Atari 8s. Consider it to be like the FX chip for the SNES or the SVP cartridge for the Genesis, imagine a virtual racer style game for the 2600.

 

[What was the Jaguar truly capable of?]

I'd like to see how the Jaguar handle spline and b-spline based 3D, a more bi-cubical style 3D graphics in games... I first took notice of bi-cubical in the game "Star-fighter" for the 3DO with all of the blocky polygons covering the landscape; the Acorn PC version uses even lesser graphics than the 3DO and it had a little bit more to it's hardware; the ground almost look mode 7 like, but I know that's just the way the texture maps look to accommodate hardware that may not have a lot of ram sticks. One computer system I like to look at is an old graphics workstation called the "Adage 3000", which was a 68000 terminal based computer system controlling a larger floor model that had boards that rendered 3D graphics using a series of 4bit AMD 2901 bit-slicers much like the ones used in the "Star Wars" arcade math box as part of a custom "Bipolar Processor", only their hardware was built around "Splines, B-Spines, and Bi-Cubical Surface" rendering techniques the company developed over the years prior. Although the Adage 3000 was a good system, it didn't have no where near what the Jaguar had hardware wise. It was considered the first GPU of its time in the late 70s and early 80s. Their hardware wasn't as powerful as the Jaguar, but they had a more well rounded system design that's still impressive for it's time frame. People always point to the SGI computer stuff (which could much of what the Adage could), but the Adage predated the old "Iris 2400 Workstation Computer" that also had the Motorola 68000 controlling a floor model using custom chips. Bottom line I think the Jag falls in line as a more advanced version of the graphic workstation computers of old with more perks than those old systems versus a PlayStation 1 or Sega Saturn. I could go on and on about that kind of stuff, but I'll just leave it here since it'll be a "YouTube Overload" with my post to help illustrate.

 

You know the crazy thing about the Adage 3000 was that Atari had an Adage Workstation was that Atari owned an Adage computer and used to do some graphics work for the movie "Superman 3" dodging missiles being launched at him... Didn't the movie release around 1982 or 83? They probably used it to do graphic work for the "Firefox Laser Disc Game" as well; who knows? Just a note worthy mention.

 

https://youtu.be/pKgt5IX-HVA

 

 

 

[Jaguar Homebrew Projects]

I use to post long worded stuff like... Still do sometimes, but the consensus is to keep it short and direct to the point. Sometimes people just have a lot on your mind and want to get it out there. I know I like posting ideas I have, but I found the best thing to do is to write/type the idea down on MS Word or a rich text format and save it for later. It's a great learning tool when you go back and read something you wrote sometime ago and realize something about the idea you didn't quite see the first time around. It forces you to go back and look again; that is if you still believe in your ideas and want to see it come to fruition. Sometimes it can take you places one wouldn't think it would take you; just remember where ever you go, there you are... Just keep moving.

["Jaytrax"Great Synthesizer & Mod Tracker / Sort-of Jaguar Related (Sort-of)]

Well... I had a lot of fun making songs on Jaytrax. It was the very first synth based software I worked on before I even knew what a synth software or mod tracker was. By the time I found out about mod trackers and I tried my hand with composing with a tracker, it felt like I was going backwards. Before then I was using a midi program called "WinJam" and found that my music didn't sound the same on every PC. I consistently used the program from 99 to about 08 until I moved on to "FL Studios", to ultimately investing in synthesizers so I'm somewhat in a transitioning period music wise thus I haven't really composed anything in a while. If you ever decide to make a user interface for your sound engine, go with a piano roll style interface like the one used in Jaytrax or FL studio. The guy who made Jaytrax once asked how to improve on his software because of the songs I was making on it and I wish I'd gave him the advise I'm giving now. To this day I've yet to use a classic mod tracker; doesn't feel very natural, but I guess the learning curb must always be overcome. The way the mod tracks can be arranged in Jaytrax made for the UI almost as seamless as a piano roll style interface only you place the modules in place like building blocks; I might do a tutorial on how it works for better or for whatever. I think the best way to reach people is in layman's terms and Jaytrax was a very easy to use.

 

It's still a great program in its own right... The only reason I posted this in the Atari Jaguar forum was to archive the work I did back in the day for a couple of games including an entry I did back for a "Protector SE" contest I did when Songbird were holding for the release of an old Atari ST or Amiga game Carl Forhan ported over; very exciting times back then. I knew it was a shot in the dark, but you work with the tools you know how to use. I've included "Protector" contest entry music file in the downloads; not my best work, but it's all there for the listening.

 

I tell you what... I'll load one of the last songs I worked on in Jaytrax back in 07 called "Ghost... AAAhhhh!" to illustrate what was possible... It almost fully utilizes Jaytrax synth capabilities and I still never fully utilize all that Jaytrax could offer. The song features "Microsoft Sam" in a very eerie voice at the end. I had a lot of fun making it. Jaytrax was a great program, where I had to learn sound editing from scratch in order to get results. I hope the post shine some light on the old program, I'd hate to see it fade into obscurity without some way to archive it. Tutorials could be in the future for this topic (Stay Tuned).

 

"Edited"

Ok... I just added a song called "Bump-N-Non-Stop", which is one of the first if not the first songs I did back in 99 or 2000... Perhaps you can hear a comparison of how far along I'd came with the program over the years. It's a shame I didn't get off into the Atari ST stuff early on; I wish I had TBH. I was still learning how to use Jaytrax when I did this one.

Ghost... AAAhhhh Quality Sounds (Philip Wood (C) 2007).zip

Bump-N-Non-Stop (Philip Wood (c) 2000).zip

["Jaytrax"Great Synthesizer & Mod Tracker / Sort-of Jaguar Related (Sort-of)]

As with most things in Jag there are challenges and a balancing act to be had. Sound wise there is certainly more room for improvement, (well certainly from my offerings ) beyond the trusty old 4 channel Amiga tracker mod days, but I doubt anything like a full Jaytrax mod is going to be possible in a useful way on the Jag, perhaps with some limitations on the features and channels etc, but you also need to get someone with the time to code up the player too!

 

Yea I figured that out years ago Jaytrax uses full 16bit mono sounds at 16 sound channels; not to mention that each synth sound can use 1 oscillators and 2 source per synth controlling the output sounds... The program did, however start off as an Amiga based synth before being moved to the PC with probably less channels, less sounds, and less bit depth. The Jag doesn't the bus width or the cpu power handle Jaytrax. It's shame that the bus bottleneck hinders cause so much conflict of interest with the processors; if the DSP could at least pull off SNES style music, that would be a thrill, but even the SNES sound chip sat on it's own separate bus with it's own dedicated memory. Old keyboards like the "Casio CZ-1" (which got the CZ 5000 about a year ago) uses 2 oscillators sitting on a board separate from what the CPU sits on controlling up to 8 sounds simultaneously. It was suppose to be a cheaper alternative to the Yamaha DX series. I just found it interesting the keyboard is controlled by an 8bit NEC processor that's only 4mghz; not custom chip like the DX keyboards did. Those were dedicated machines unlike the Jaguar DSP setup. I could go on and on about that kind of think like the 1986 "Sequential Prophet Vector Synthesizer" being controlled by a 68000 processor... I like to see more than 8 channels of sound come from the Jaguar even if the sounds are cheap and low bit-depths. Here are some examples of some cheap synth or sound sample manipulation using 8bit processors to produce music except for the C64 cubase example.

 

 

This one uses 1bit synthesis of stacks of click sounds the Spectrum would naturally produce in the form of synth.

 

["Jaytrax"Great Synthesizer & Mod Tracker / Sort-of Jaguar Related (Sort-of)]

Ok here's some song not included with the files I've uploaded I composed using "Jaytrax Sequencer"... I have tons of music I've done over the years that very few know about until now. It's kind of the nature of thousands of mod files people create that never seem to make the light of day. Think of all of the Atari ST and Amiga mod files that never really got the recognition it deserved or the composers. Mod tracker composers really are the most widely known and unknown people on earth; for you mod tracker composers, I feel your pain. Keep composing my friends. lol

 

"Pacman Intermission"

 

"Sound So Good"

 

"The Old West Spirit"

 

"Atomic Breakdown"

["Jaytrax"Great Synthesizer & Mod Tracker / Sort-of Jaguar Related (Sort-of)]

Ok here go some videos some one posted of Jaytrax including a couple of music files I composed... They most likely got it from JS3 on Facebook. A big thanks to the moderator for putting me on over there. Great guy real polite fellow.

 

https://youtu.be/U33sFrL0nOU

 

https://youtu.be/52gbH7rseIA