philipj
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Posts posted by philipj
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That's really neat Flux...! Congrats.
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I think the fact that people want to make or want to port games for the Jag is far more impressive than what the machine can do. I look forward to what people will port or produce for the Jag!
I'd like to see Neo Geo games emulated on the Jaguar.
Here is wisdom.
There's so much good stuff coming out on Jaguar at the moment and people experimenting with concepts of their own, the issue of what might of been possible had developer A been developing on the Jaguar and if they'd been aware of work around B discovered years later...is becoming mute.
It's what's being done by people today that makes for far more interesting viewing as it's stuff people get to see and play.
Agreed... At this point any game for the Jaguar is a good game just to get some more good stuff going. All bets are off.
Given OOP is used on embedded systems with far less ROM/RAM than the jag, nope. (and by far less I am talking 4KB of RAM and 64KB of ROM type sizes)
I think there's a C compiler being made for the Texas Instrument TI-99/4A... If it can be made for that, it can be made for anything.
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As much as I respect the developers back in the day, the Jag never had a Rare, Capcom or Sega programming for it.Imagine what the N64 would have been without Rare?
It would've been cool to see something like that happen just to know what resources they would use to pull off some neat graphical tricks and gameplay... I'm more interested in what can be done on the system now, more than what could've been. That's always been the case when I first got into the scene. "Fight For Life" has a pretty decent animation system; would've been nice to see a "Mario 64" style game or some sorts come to fruition back in the day, but it's never too late to see one now. Perhaps "Crystal Castle 64" in 2018 or some other kind of good 3D platformer...? It's possible to work around the control factor especially with the newly released reproduction 6 button controller that has the left and right flip buttons on them for the Atari Jaguar. Back in the 90s, the N64 controller really bought something new to the table with the 360 control stick that Sony later follow-up with 2 of them on one controller they released and it became an industry standard. But if you look back before those then, you had the SNES controllers and the 3DO controllers with the "left and right flip buttons" on top of. Well the 3DO made good use of those buttons in navigating in 3D environments using the analog controllers; the N64 digital 360 controller stick simply added a broader range to that affect making the gaming experience much more interactive then anyone could've expected back then, but the basic blue print with using analog controllers for 3D control is there and can be used again and refined. Games like "Starfighter, Battlesports, the list goes on with the 3DO system and even some SNES pseudo 3D games that used the mode 7 feature in a fake 3D environment where you use the controller and the flip buttons to navigate within those environment; it's all there and can be used again.
Once again I turned a simple reply into a full on paragraph, but I'm highly enthused about what the Jaguar has to offer today more than what it offered in the past. Definitely something I've been down the road more times than I can remember and I just like to see some new stuff.
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You're being harsh. The Jaguar has a pretty unique 3D hardware. It's the only one I know that can do Gouraud shading and Z-buffering, but can't draw a simple triangle.
Actually I was going to mention the 64bit blitter early on, but because of CyranoJ's work on the Raptor, I didn't quite know what kind of technobable he might come up with to dismiss my talking point for whatever reason he's doing it. I think if the GPU had more memory to work without issues with the Jump, or even a separate 30 or 60k of its own memory at-least, through software, it could borderline becoming a graphics accelerator. Even the 3DO had a full 1-MB or GPU space to work with.
It can DO! Just very very thin isosceles ones
:D What was it...? 4 pixel per 8-bit intensity calculation for shading and 2 pixels per 16-bit intensity using the Blitter via the JRISC?
There are different versions Jag and Panther story floating around. But from technical point of view, Panther's Object Processor is very similar to Jaguar's one
Same thing I heard or read... Would've gave the Genesis and the SNES a run for its money if they'd market the system right.
You say that, but.......
I got to start somewhere technobable or not... The Jaguar is a very different animal than the average 3D system so the approach making a good 3D engine will be very different and unconventional then the normal way and the only way figure out the angles is to look back at system before the Jag that rendered 3D in similar fashion, but I'm taking things off topic a little bit, but I feel very strongly about that opinion and have for a long time, which is probably why I bring it up so much.
More wall of text.
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It is really made up.. Those are CPUs. They don't magically give 3D hardware acceleration. You are confusing a really nice software render with actual hardware acceleration. All the technobable and WoTs in the world won't make you suddenly less wrong.
I made distinctions between the two when I quoted that the hardware was already in the graphic workstation industry... Not made up and not all technobable. I stand by what I posted. It's not hard to have a basic understanding things of that nature without all of the technicalities so no technobable what-so-ever.
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That game reminds me of "Guerrilla War" by SNK... This was the neighborhood go-to game when in the mid 80s thanks to a local handy-pack store that had the game. Everybody in the neighborhood knew and played this game to death with some even spending tens and twenty dollar bills in quarters to beat the game. The game-play was very brutal.
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I do admit that the technical manuals probably have less of a narrative (but, lets be honest here, they do contain pure fiction in places!) as some of your walls of text, but they do actually contain some useful information you might like to digest before making up facts
It's not really made up... The N64 and PS1 is based on MIPS technology that was already a well established 3D tech being used in multiple industries SGI computer graphic workstations; all Sony and Nintendo had to do was use what was already established as far as what was graphically possible and it cost in the thousands outside of the average consumer... I know it's a little off topic but bare with me... Although Atari had Star Wars, I-Robot, and other vector based games, it wasn't on the level of what the workstations were doing. They almost had a good 3D arcade system with "The Last Starfighter and Air Race" using the early TMS Processor but the machines were too expensive to release, but would later lead up to games like "StunRunner and Hard Drivin" that made good use of gouraud shading when the DSPs became affordable to buy, but still not on the level of a graphics workstation at least not in the way they used it. The 3DO had great 3D graphics probably using hard floats to pull it off, but cost an arm and a leg thus was abandoned... The Jaguar, on the other hand, offered or had the potential to offer an alternative, something more tangible for 3D graphic in gaming that was very unique for its time even though the system, with all of its potential, was a bit of a lemon when they rushed it into market in beta form basically releasing an unfinished system to the masses and not the classes (get it). Not so much the Jaguar versus the SGI, but the way in which it was made internal and released in the market well before a decent 3D card was released in the PC market in 94. Technically for an ST owner, using the ST as a terminal for the Jaguar would've made available extra graphical extensions/capabilities that would've cost the average PC owner a whole lot more than what the Jaguar cost. That's what I mean by unique; of course I don't expect mind readers to know that so there you have it; that's me seeing the glass half full and like I said earlier, I can go on and on about that.
Was that enough "wall of text" for you...?
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All software rendered. Sometimes it's better to have facts on your side and not talk nonsense.
What's so nonsensical about my quote...? We all know the history; the Panther wind up becoming the Jaguar, but I guess I did take it a little off topic here bringing the Jaguar up. Next time I'll do better keep things in to context.
I don't think any of them was announced for the Panther ....
Glass half empty...
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Yes, none at all was pretty unique
Club Drive begs to differ!
What about Zero 5, Doom, Fallen Angle, Battlesphere, Checkered Flag (Modular style 3D despite choppy framerate), Battlemorph, Tube SE, Skyhammer with texture mapping...? Sometimes it's best to look past the fault and see the glass half full instead of half empty.
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I think if Atari given themselves at least another 2 years or a year and a half or so to work out the bugs on the Jaguar, they could've beat the PlayStation 1 by a year with a better Jaguar system... All wishful thinking at the end of the day; could go on and on about something like that. Despite the hardware flaws, I think the system was very impressive for its time considering the hardware it had. It was like a mini graphic workstation of a very different type to what was already out there with it's own unique 3D capabilities. The PC and gaming world was just moving at a pace Atari couldn't keep up between 93 to 95.
Also I like the way the 7800 graphic chip works... It could've given the NES a run or its money; at least they made provisions to allow for a Pokey to be added to the game cartridge versus being stuck with 2600 sound chip. Still waiting on that XM module to be released, but that's for another topic.
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Me either... I got bills plus I'm trying to get another car/truck; plus Christmas around the corner not too helpful. Very tight on my end. I'll eventually get the controllers just not right away.
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Awesome, thanks!
You're welcome dude...
For the record there's one more thing I like to add... At the time I made that song, a game called "Capoeira Fighter" was out for shockwave player. That game also had an influence for inspiration; I would love to see this ported to the Jaguar.
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With all the walls of text, I am still trying to work out whether your song was included in Protector SE or not...? Sincerely, it is all a bit confusing, perhaps try to be a little more concise or to the point (I mean no disrespect here, I tend to write too much at times too).
Some of this historical detail may be better suited to a blog or articles...I think there is a blog facility here on AA...it could be linkable from the thread...again, just a thought.
FWIW, I like some of the tunes youve posted. I too created at least one track, possibly two, for Protector SE but never submitted them. Theyre long lost now, but one day Ill attempt to recreate them using modern software.
Before "Protector SE" was released, Songbird had a contest of some sort where I submitted my song... Because it wasn't in a mod tracker format, my entry never made the cut... For that matter I'm not even sure if Mr. Forhan even knew or understood what the entry was until later after explaining it to him via email... Even more so, I don't know if he even remembers to be brutally honest, but it did happen and I did show him the program some years ago (who remembers an email these days). lol
Through out this journey with the Jag, for what it's worth, Jaytrax was my main source of making music that was game oriented... For example I was a big Namco fan especially the "Tekken 3" arcade, which was just the one of the most bad ass game I've seen next to Killer Instinct, they released a slew of arcade games and was just knocking it out of the ball park. My favorite character was "Eddie Gordo" with his capoeira fighting style... I was already a big fan of the martial art with the "Richard Meyer" character in Fatal Fury and maybe a movie on the art form. One day while playing "Fight for Life" on Jaguar with the hope of making my own fighting game, I thought to myself if I was a make an Eddie Gordo kind of fighter, what would his theme song sound like, so guest what I did... I took off to Jaytrax and composed a score using sounds from real Brazilian capoeira sessions and I had a lot of fun doing. I think losing the experience to father time would be kind of sad, catch my drift?
Tell you what I'll upload the song for download and whoever want to can check it out or themselves. I've made a few minor changes from 2005 to 2013 so the version you hear is the last version, roughly it's the same song from the original.
Looking forward to downloading the program and learning how to use it. It'll be nice to keep it going instead of it disappearing altogether. These old programs are a lot of fun to work with.Yea it was a lot of fun working on that old program... I have a lot of good memories with such an obscure program; it's even more obscure than the mod tracker itself and people are still using those. I'll upload a copy of Jaytrax with this reply; it's also available at the beginning of this topic.
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Besides, I wish I'd thought to put this in a blog... I've already started here so there's no turning back now.
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This is the longest single page in forum history.
Thank you sir... There's more to come.
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I didn't actually call you an asshole. Well, not unless you go off to other places complaining about how bad AtariAge moderation is. Do you do that? And if someone thinks that, why would they still post here?
*puzzled at your response*
Well I still consider some of those guys you call assholes as friends... And no I don't go around insulting moderators like that even in the thick of all of that stuff that went on all of them years back. The way you see me post here is the way I've posted at JS2 all in good taste before things got out of control. Also I've been a member here since 02 posting here on and off, why would I stop posting here now? Now you do have to admit there's a bit of a stigma in the Jaguar community; too many unfair bans of members from past history, but then again all of the trolling that was going on in past history I don't really blame the site. I saw the asshole comment, wasn't sure if you meant for me or my friends or both. Just trying to tell my story that's all; the asshole comment felt a bit unnecessary.
Besides this topic is kind of getting off track here... My focus is on Jaytrax a software that would otherwise go into obscurity less an old user like me put it out there and since I've done things with it in the Jag community, I can't think of a better place to put than in Jag forum here. The program was originally started off as an old Amiga synth program that got ported over to the IBM 386 PCs very similar to the way a mod tracker was used in game engines so when I started using the old program I approached it as such stuck with it until I reached a plateau... Although it's a great little music maker, the thing crashes a lot requiring me to save often and even losing precious work from time to time. Despite that, the program was actually given to me by actual programmer "Reinier Von Vliet" from Amsterdam I think and he seemed to have moved on career wise and have left Jaytrax behind. He did have a user base and forum out there, I can't find anyone that has used Jaytrax as extensively as I have someone can prove me wrong, which I'll be glad to here their works.
I'll probably do some tutorials on how the program actually worked as some point in the future... For now I've been posting my music to help show what the thing is capable of; I've used and made a lot of tricks to get the most out of this thing. I'm not sure if I'll go into too much details considering it may take a lot to explain things. I might just start explaining the basics and then get off into some other stuff perhaps... I'm all about keeping peace.
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I tried to give this the benefit of the doubt... got as far as 'rehashing old atari st' and thought tl;dr.
You are right though. Snide, backhanded comments were the hallmark of js2 (and jarse3). So you nailed that.
Thank god for moderation here. Notice how the only people who ever complain about it are generally assholes?
Who says it was meant as a backhanded comment...? I'm sorry you feel that way, but it was what it was at the time. Anytime someone mention JS2 or any of the politics of the time is like trying to walk on eggshells. If all you got was Atari ST part, then you're missing the whole of the story. But then again it shouldn't be that surprising that I would get a response. It only shows that people are people are paying attention contrary to what I thought at first. Very few likes or no feedback until I mention JS2, now all of a sudden I'm an a$$hole...? For what? Look this is my story and this is how it was when it happen, this is what we thought and to some degree I believe the thought still prevails. If you're asking wondering if I still have problem ST games being released today, well then you forget that I made music for "Protector SE" which was originally an Amiga game by Songbird. Also you still release ST games on the Jaguar anyway so what difference does it make at this particular time other than to be the very thing you're now accusing me of being by simply writing down my account of history? Check it out... Read the full story before you call someone an asshole. (Not my words... Yours.)
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Ok here's one of the last few songs I made on Jaytrax for an Atari Jaguar project... It was all voluntary this time contrary to the contest of the past and is purely a JS2 style collaboration with "Jason Greene a.k.a. T2KFreaker". This was around the time when the moderator at "Jaguar Sector 2 or JS2" was releasing a, then, newly found beta copy of "Fight For Life" when things were really kicking off. There was seemingly a lot of activity as far as Jaguar stuff going on at the forum at that time with talks of a "Jaguar 2" remake. One thing was very clear in the face of all of that hype was the reality of new software content for the Jaguar and I'm not talking about rehashing old Atari ST games in cartridge form, but new stuff. Just a little peep back into a history that would otherwise not be documented to kind of give a since of what the climate was at the time I started working on music for "Metro Blaster". It's kind of hard not to bring it due to the fact that it was what help to ferment what brought upon the making of the music.
Like I'm doing now, I had showed of some of the stuff I was doing on Jaytrax at JS2 including what I'd did for "Jagworm", my first ever cartoon based music. This time around, the songs would be for a game that was not originally designed for the Atari Jaguar. "Metro Blaster" is a "Shoot-Em-Up or SHMUP" that was originally designed for the "Turbo Graphic 16", which T2K seem to favor at the time around 2005. He was a comic book collector and artist just like I was having a great understanding on all thing comic related so when he approached and asked me to do the music for him, I had just finished my work with Jagworm and had secretly shared it with T2K as well as some other music including an experimental "Heavy Metal" song I had sitting on the back burner and he seemed to like a little bit. After a few emails back and fourth, he wanted something that sound similar to "Nine Inch Nails"; having no real experience whatsoever making rock/metal music, purchased a copy of NIN that I still have to this day. A lot of inspiration came from that as well as some ideas I had about making heavy metal music and being comic book fans I knew that nothing short of "pure bad @zz" had to be manifested in whatever I made.
I needed an edge to make the song sound different from anything out there... I owed it to myself, to T2K, to JS2 that was really popping off at the time before things went array. I was busy with school and work, but I made time to do the song learning from what I did with "Protector SE, Jagworm, and now Metro Blaster". Very similar to how I approached Protector SE, this time I'm going to have a secret weapon embedded within the song in a way that's completely different than the normal. My secret for Metro Blaster was "FUNK". Now when people think of the word "funk" they think "James Brown, Prince, MJ, and most 70s funk band of old. But there were really good principles that I saw as nuance for making Heavy Metal music as funky as possible while still keeping the continuity of that bad ass metal sound. I looked to YouTube to find a quick crash course in the elements that get people to make a "mean mug" while jamming at the same time thus I found an old YouTube of "Bootsy Collins" explaining the basic elements of funk in a video called "Basic Funk Formula", which was very simple and easy to understand; every sound and instrument is basically a drum that fits within the rhythm staring at "The One". Bootsy played for both James Brown and Parliament Funkedelic at the very heart of funk scene. What I've learned is something that was known all along is that rock music has always been apart of what would later become funk music and is deeply embedded into even heavy metal rather people know it or believe it or not. I just took the core constructs of funk music and applied to "Metro Blaster"; it was fantastic experiment and I was very proud of it when I'd finished it. Jason got a kick out of it as I made settle changes to it over time with one of the songs "Ghost Symphony" not yet completed in favor of starting and finishing "Primal Wing Assault", which is by far one of my favorite songs. Later on after the completion of the music, I did more research the relationship between funk and rock and found that Bootsy Collins own band member was a proficient guitar player name "Eddie Hazel" with his play style sounding almost similar to some of the music on Metro Blaster check out "Lampoc Boogie"; he was so good they called him "Little Jimi Hendrix". That made me feel good as an artist because that meant that I was right on the heals of that sound without fully knowing it. Now if only I can apply all of this stuff to programming. lol
I hope you enjoy the music... Once again I can't express gratitude to Jeffery for posting the YouTubes and putting it out there. I haven't touched a video editor in a while so thanks man. Also I hope this music inspire more Atari Jaguar development and bring some really cool games to the table.
Best regards.
Edited:
There's one more thing I want to note... Lessons I learned from Protector SE was also implemented very heavily during the making of the music... If you listen very carefully to the "Intro Theme", you'll notice it sounds very similar to how "Space Invaders and Asteroids" for the Atari 2600 sounds. I really was keeping the essence of the old retro sound alive as much as possible through out the making of Metro Blaster sound tracks.
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Ok... This song is very much Jaguar related. I don't know if anyone would remember; a while back I guess around 2001 or 02 "Songbird Productions" released a game called "Protector SE". Prior to it's release a contest was being held for musical content with downloadable mod file with instrument. It would probably be one of the first times I dealt with mode files considering at the time I was still fairly new at composing music via computer. Of course by that time I had already spent a couple of years using "Jaytrax Synth Sequencer" and another music program called "Winjammer", a PC sound card based sequencer and had only heard of mod trackers on and off over the Internet. Most of the instruments in this song comes directly from files Songbird had posted on their website thus the rules at the time was that it had to be in mode tracker form and submitted within a deadline. At that time I didn't have much time to figure out how a mod tracker worked so I almost didn't enter the contest. However out of enthusiasm for the release, I made the decision to compose the music and enter the contest during a time when I was still experimenting with different musical styles trying to find my sound.
The inspiration for this song came from wanting to make "House Style" music with an Atari retro feel... Also some of the cool art works from Songbirds website, which you can still download from the site, also help to inspire the making of the song. Basically internalized my experiences with some of the aesthetics from what I experienced with the Atari 2600 from games like "Asteroids, Defender (which Protector is in essence, Defender clone)" and other space shooters like Space Chase, Yars Revenge, and so on... I basically put all of those good feelings into the song thus I choose "House genera" of music to do so; the style is very lite yet very celebratory, nothing too off the wall. This was before I actually played T2K for the Atari Jaguar and heard the music for that game... When I heard it I was like "OH...! OK... Bad@zz techno / house music...I see now. lol" thus looking back over time, I had second thoughts about the style of the music I was making. In all in all I had fun making this song and was a great learning experience, lessons I would use later on down the road especially for another Jag game that never got released called "Metro Blaster", which I'll post later. In reference to the music actually used in "Protector SE's" game-play, I here a little "funk element" in the song, which I thought was pretty neat. Kind of made me wish I'd gone in that direction myself, I'd probably have better sounding song than the one I actually made... Live and learn right.
I'll make the Jaytrax available for download... I hope you enjoy and it inspire future Jaguar game development.
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That would be sad to give up developing for Jaguar as nowadays there are more tools and technologies than anytime before (Raptor, Sound Engine...)
Hi Felyx... I did the sound tracks for Jagworm. I've been meaning to learn how the sound engine works. Too busy with real life, but definitely on my to do list.
This style of dark humor is an acquired taste and only old folks who watched some of the first adult cartoons and perhaps even old fans of Joe Cartoon can appreciate this.
A lot of the stuff we found entertaining and funny back in the day is very much frowned upon by this generation.
his style of dark humor is an acquired taste and only old folks who watched some of the first adult cartoons and perhaps even old fans of Joe Cartoon can appreciate this.
A lot of the stuff we found entertaining and funny back in the day is very much frowned upon by this generation.
Seen cartoon network lately...? Something about the shows on that station that's very bizarre, but then again I'm old-school head who grew up on "Tom & Jerry" where the Tom catches hell trying to catch the mouse. That thought can go both ways in that respect.-
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Ok... Here's song I made called "Teen-E-Bebop" featuring samples from "Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers" hence the reason I gave title of the song its name. The inspiration came from a song LL Cool J, a legendary hip hop artist, created called "The Do Wop". Now I grew up listening to LL and can remember the mid 80s when he first came and then created the song "I'm Bad", which just totally ripped Micheal Jackson's song "BAD" a new one; both songs were released the same year in 87, but it was the LL Cool J song that was the most popular among me and my playground friends in the 80s. Anyways when I made Teen-E-Bebop, I really wanted express the great memories of an era when hip hop was still very young, fresh, and still very much underground before it went mainstream. To make a long story short, I looked at the song "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" by the Teenagers, which to me, is the most recognizable do wop song I know. One thing I want to quickly note is the fact at how talented the Teenagers were, the harmony from them was flawless, I didn't hardly have to add any music to the song... They were that good. I felt like I was cheating just using their vocal harmony through out the majority of the song, to bring some level of originality to it, I added some music towards the end of the song using the Teenagers baritone singers voice as a bass instrument that plays in a continues loop to help make the music blend with the Teenagers harmony. Almost most of the instruments, except the samples and the drums are mostly synthesized sounds from Jaytrax... I had a lot of fun make this song
I'll leave links to both songs for comparison... I hope you enjoy.
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When I saw the YouTube, it reminded me of arcade game called "Pipe Dreams" by Lucasarts... The art style almost looks a lot like "Reck It Ralph" by Pixar; they did work for Lucasarts before they ventured off and to become Pixar.
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First off let me thank Jeffery for posting this music on YouTube and Starcats for giving me the opportunity to do giving me the opportunity to make music for his game. When I started composing the music for Jagworm, it was really at the height of the buzz around the game at the time... I didn't know Lars personally, only through game forums (AA & JS2). I liked some of the graphic works he was doing and I wanted to put my work our there as well. I think at the time he had a contest for music talent similar to what "Songbird Production" did for Protector SE, which I also participated in. I just made time to do those things while attending school at the same time around 04 and 05; it was work, school and then music making on my spare time. Looking back today is nostalgia and it was fun to try and make cartoon music on my first try. I hope this music inspire others to keep chasing your dreams and keep making Jaguar games.
I'm also going to include the Jaytrax music file of Jagworm, which has all of the songs located in the "Sub Song" dropdown box... To access them please read the topic instructional I posted.
Best regards.
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What was the Jaguar truly capable of?
in Atari Jaguar
Posted · Edited by philipj
Well some have already discussed the topic till infinity reason being the dead horse thing I suppose, but I do have a lot of fun talking about stuff like that from time to time even though I've been down the road before, it's still a lot of fun. I think for some who are programming it's just some subject matters that they've already settled and probably don't want to go down the road again, but I don't mind sometimes. It somewhat serves as a reminder of the whole game enthusiast scene even though I don't play games as much as I use to; I still play them from time to time. So yea I understand what you're saying; I feel you buddy. Just express yourself anytime you feel like doing so.