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Jstick

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Posts posted by Jstick

  1. Posted

     

    R-Pi isn't a good benchmark platform. It's cheap. It's underpowered for the task. It's like a Ferrari with a minispare.

     

     

    Oh I agree, I’m not particularly a fan of the Pi for emulation (although it is interesting for other projects). My response was to the “Pi and SNES classic are basically equivalent” comment. As noted, the classic is only 1.3 frames / 22ms behind a real SNES on a CRT in terms of input latency, which is pretty respectable for a cheap out-of-the-box platform. I’m one of those people who is sensitive to lag, which makes low latency a fairly important feature to me.

    • Like 1

  2. Posted · Edited by Jstick

    Actually tests have been done showing it has slightly more input latency than a Pi, there is a giant thread on input lag over on the Retroarch forums. They are very close but compared to a proper PC and settings they are much higher.

     

     

    Yep, that’s the thread I’m referring to, relevant parts bolded below:

     

     

    We can see that the SNES Mini with it’s default emulator (Canoe) is pretty fast. A real SNES on a CRT would achieve ~3.3 frames in our test case and the SNES Mini achieves ~4.6 frames if we remove the Samsung TV’s input lag. That’s just ~1.3 frames (~22 ms) behind the real thing. That’s pretty awesome and a job well done by Nintendo, especially given the low computational performance of the Mini’s hardware. The real problem for most people will be that their TV’s add quite a lot of input lag on top of this.

     

    We can also see that the default RetroPie is painfully slow at 8 frames (7 if we remove the Samsung TV’s input lag). Remeber that 8 frames is what we achieve with this comparably fast TV (1 frame of input lag is pretty much as fast as TVs go currently) and a very fast input method. Most people will use standard USB gamepads with standard USB polling rates (125 Hz) and TV’s that add 2 or more frames of lag. The average RetroPie user running a stock setup on his TV might therefore have a total input lag of ~10 frames (167 ms). That’s definitely very noticeable and quite distracting. Please note that a game with less built-in lag than Super Mario World might reduce that figure by 1-2 frames, but it’s still not looking very good.

    It’s interesting to see how the RetroPie setup reacts when we, one by one, apply the known input lag reducing settings. Combining them all, we can actually match the SNES Mini. However, this is slightly misleading, as there are a few drawbacks to using these settings. Using the Dispmanx video driver means you lose the ability to use shaders as well as the on screen text (for example when saving). The video_max_swapchain_images=2 setting is also very demanding and many SNES games will not run fullspeed with it enabled. You probably can use it together with the other input lag reducing settings for select 8-bit and 16-bit games, but it would be a bit cumbersome to setup and in that case I’d recommend switching to a more powerful platform (such as x86) instead. Choosing the middle ground of using the Dispmanx driver and disabling threaded video is certainly possible. This works perfectly for NES/SNES and will put you within a frame of the SNES Mini, given a fast enough input device.

     

    So basically since you can’t realistically use all the performance optimizations on the Pi without slowing down the emulation, it still ends up behind the SNES classic.

  4. Posted

    Nintendos Minis are basically on par with a Raspberry Pi which many of the emulation haters look down upon as if it is some sort scourge.

     

     

    I realize this is a tangential point, but the SNES classic has been tested to have significantly lower input latency than a Pi running SNES emulation, so closer to the original hardware in that respect. This, along with the included first party SNES controllers and replica case, make the classic the superior solution of the two in my view.

    • Like 2

  5. Posted

    I’m sure the initial SD limitation is simply due to Hyperkin wanting the focus to be on the primary draw of the device; i.e. loading real carts. Anyone who is currently content with emulating the 2600 on their PC, Console, Pi (or even Flashback) won’t be particularly interested this box, regardless of whether you can put 500 ROMs on it or not. The target is those of us with physical collections and controllers who are perhaps replacing a dead system, moving to a flat-panel TV, or just want a modern option that doesn’t require tinkering/maintenance.

     

    It would hurt the image of the device as a valid hardware replacement if all of the initial videos and reviews were people simply loading the device with huge lists of ROMS and scrolling through them to play, as well as having these devices popping up on Ebay pre-populated with full ROM sets as mentioned. This would give the impression that the Retron ‘77 was simply a Pi type box that does not offer much over existing solutions.

     

    Of course since the device is open-source, Hyperkin is obviously aware that people who are determined can circumvent this limit, but it is smart of them to aim to showcase the device as a way to play carts, as it is uniquely the first out-of-the-box dedicated system to do so since the original consoles (even if it is cheating a bit). The 2600 experience is so primal from a gaming perspective that it really does lack something when you aren’t grabbing a cartridge with cool artwork, popping it in the slot and holding an original controller in your hand (as Metal Jesus pointed out).

    • Like 7

  7. Posted

     

     

    He wants you to pay him for the "privilege" to watch the video before he puts it on youtube for the rest of the world to watch who are not paying him to do so. There are a whole whack of youtube folks that do this cause youtube ad revenue isn't what it used to be. Hyperkin should have charged him to use the console for his video when you think of it that way. I'm more than sure there are others who got a console given to them who are not going to put a paywall in front of reviewing it so keep your eye out for others who are not charging to see the video beforehand.

     

     

    I don’t subscribe to the Metal Jesus channel or support his Patreon, but I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. There are people who are willing to pay creators a monthly amount simply because they enjoy certain content and would like to see more. Perks such as releasing a video early to these supporters are just a small bonus, a way to say thanks. There is a conceptual difference here, I highly doubt he expects non-supporters to suddenly fork over money to get past a ‘paywall’ because they want to watch this video a day early.

     

    As for Hyperkin, assuming the device gets a reasonably favourable review, it’s some decent exposure for the Retron ‘77 with their target audience, so I’m sure it is worth it for them.

    • Like 5

  8. Posted

    we are making more, and will get the systems to our overseas distributors real soon as well

     

    I hope you can get them to your overland distributors soon as well, for those of us up here on your northern border ;)

  9. Posted · Edited by Jstick

    Anyone from Canada able to pre-order successfully? I tried and it keeps saying:

     

    Unfortunately one or more items in your cart can't be shipped to your location. Please choose a different delivery address.

     

     

    :(

     

     

    No shipping to Canada, as many of us found out.

  10. Posted · Edited by Jstick

    Would the driving controller fall under "paddle"?

     

    Also, as it is a joystick, what about the Track & Field controller?

     

    Only standard paddles and joysticks supported out of the box according to an earlier post, no driving controllers or keypads etc. Track & Field controller should be fine as it’s just mimicking a regular joystick (left, right and fire).

    • Like 1

  11. Posted

     

    Hi Andrew, will the SD card slot allow us to load roms or will this just be for software upgrades?

     

     

    You can load ROMs, this was clarified earlier in this thread (There was a screenshot posted of the ROM loading interface).

    • Like 1

  14. Posted

     

    It still amuses me to this day:

    I discussed small computers and future-laptops back in the late seventies.

    Looked at a wall of cartridges and imagined putting them on a "SuperMan" style data crystal.

    Imagined having instant access to thousands of games, electronically organized too.

    Imagined playing them on a TV as big as the livingroom window.

    And got laughed at by real IBM engineers for even thinking about such nonsense.

     

    ..and..well..here we are!

     

    and here we are... hanging on to our 40 year old old carts and trying keep them running on original hardware, while praying our old CRT sets with RF connections don’t die ;)

    • Like 3

  15. Posted · Edited by Jstick

    I made this list by picking 8 of my favourite games from different genres.

     

    Frostbite (Platformer)

    - More a platformer in the literal sense than the traditional sense; once you get into a rhythm and your reflexes take over there is no other 2600 game that compares (in my opinion).

     

    Keystone Kapers (Endless Runner)

    - Non-stop running, jumping over and ducking under obstacles, memorizing patterns that get progressively complex and more difficult: all the hallmarks of a good endless runner.

     

    Pressure Cooker (Puzzle)

    - The best 2600 puzzle game, this is the Tetris of burger making.

     

    Ms. Pac Man (Maze)

    - Some prefer Jr. Pac, but this is my personal favourite.

    (Although, If I were including “modern” games, I might replace this one with Ladybug).

     

    Berserk (Top-Down Shooter)

    - Who doesn’t like Berserk? (Also, I think the electrocution effect is my favourite sound on the system).

     

    Enduro (Driving)

    - Not strictly a ‘racing’ game, this is actually more like meditation; after a while you just end up in a sort of trance while the days and the seasons pass by before your eyes.

     

    River Raid (Shoot-em-up)

    - This one is pretty straightforward, it’s the best vertical shooter on the system.

     

    Adventure (RPG)

    - Set this to random mode and nothing else can touch it for ‘adventure’.

     

     

    (Bonus - Solaris: I could never get very far in this so a desert island would be the perfect excuse to master it... but somehow this never quite felt like a 2600 game to me, its design sensibilities were of a later age)

    • Like 1

  16. Posted

    User interface is fully customizable, you can simply replace .bmp files (background, game icons etc) on the SD card if you don't like the way it looks.

     

     

    Being skinnable is perfect, thanks for the sneak peek. It’s also great that you are not forced into an interface if a cart is inserted.

    • Like 1

  17. Posted · Edited by Jstick

     

    From what my E3 guests could tell, with no noticeable input lag.

     

    Nice, I remain cautiously optimistic.

     

     

     

    The system powers up and boots in seconds, there are no loading screens.

     

     

     

    This is so important, and a big reason why I have been moving back to original/upgraded consoles lately. Also, maybe it’s just me, but I’m hoping that the onscreen interface is basic and 2600-like rather than slick high-tech whizzbangery :)

  18. Posted · Edited by Jstick

    How does the recent update impact on Stella? Has Hyperkin scammed the programmers? Who did they license the early version from, if not from the people who've worked on the program and who have posted in this thread? They say it's an "open-source system", but is that disingenuous? It has an SD card for homebrews, which makes it the same as a harmony for me, but I would like to know more about their Stella agreement before buying the product. Has Hyperkin developed their own version of Stella?

     

     

    Going by the information in the post from Andrew, Hyperkin is not planning to “scam the programmers’ of Stella.

     

    Hyperkin did apparently license an older version of Stella initially, but realized it wasn’t worth the effort required to bring it up to speed and so have decided in the end to use the current version. In order to do this, under the GPL license used, they are required to post the sourcecode used, along with any additional changes made. According to the last update, Hyperkin will go this route and fully respect the terms of the license. This is a win for everyone, in my opinion.

    • Like 7

  19. Posted

    Thanks for the update Andrew, it pretty much ticks most of the boxes I’m interested in.

     

    I’m not crazy about the front panel design (too cluttered and haphazard, perhaps having the buttons in black vs white would help it look a bit more dignified), but that’s just cosmetic, and the shell itself is a decent enough homage.

     

    What will make or break the device for me personally is the input latency, considering the instantaneous response of the original. I had to give up on Raspberry Pi emulation for this reason, so I hope Hyperkin can improve on that.

     

     

    If you reread that first release, he does say original joystick and paddles are supported.

    I think he means the driving controller and keypads aren't supported.

     

     

    I noticed that he said not supported “out of the box” rather than mentioning hardware incompatibility, so perhaps this is something that could be addressed by the open source nature of the device.

    • Like 1
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