relo999

Updated the first post with the guide. If anything is missing, wrong or incomplete post it and I'll edit it.

I would like to be able to edit this post http://atariage.com/forums/topic/264288-ram-upgrades/?do=findComment&comment=3738720 to add the RAM upgrade FAQ/guide and keep it up to date.

It is 64k, the 48k was just me messing up being half awake now and rushing against the edit deadline. Ditto for the 130xe, which obviously has 128k not 64k.

I've added the 400 and 800 and mentioned the incognito, although I don't know where to buy them. From what I can make out the Citrad RAM 320XL isn't available anymore, although I'm not sure. Edit: @kheller2 Didn't know it existed, but I've added it

The guide of my compiled info: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- What are the different models that I could best buy? 400 - 8k of 16k machine and can be upgraded by adding extra memory in the slots of the machine. This was marketed as a gaming machine which it's design to an extend shows as it's a light weight 800. 800 - 8k to 48k machine and can be upgraded by adding extra memory in the slots of the machine. 600XL - 16k, easy to upgrade (if socketed) by popping in new ram chips and soldering a couple/few wires, depending on the method. 800XL - 48k, the most common - almost ALL software will work on a 64k XL...some 1990s (and onwards) demos and games require more ram. almost ALL Taiwan 800XLs are soldered - which makes upgrading harder. 50% of Hong Kong 800XLs have socketed ram. 1200XL - the easiest to upgrade, but easier to buy in the USA than europe. most ICs are socketed which makes installing a 256k wizztronics clone, Ultimate 1mb or the newer Antonia 4mb upgrades much easier. almost all 1200XLs will need a clear pic, UAV or similar upgarde to make video reasonable. 65XE - 48k, an XL with ST styling - many do not have the ECI port. 130XE - 64k, again, an XL with ST styling, but with 128k ram. 800XE - 48k, eastern european crossover from XL to XE range - some (about 30%) of these have a buggy GTIA chip, but if you strike lucky you get a nice "XL" with freddie chip and ECI. Why upgrade RAM? To either gain access to 130XE library and to more modern demo's, games, etc. Different RAM standards and why do they matter? Plain and simple comparability as some RAM upgrades have different memory adresses, which means some software might not run or not run correctly under a different standard. Can and is it worth it to upgrade my RAM by filling out empty RAM spots on the motherboard on my 65xe or 800xe? Yes, if you have those slots and if you don't want to go all out on the RAM or keep your machine like it was during the machines production life. Watch out for the faulty GTIA's though. You can check for those buy typing in : 10 GR. 9:D=1:FOR X=0 TO 79 20 COLOR C:C=C+D:IF C=15 OR C=0 THEN D=-D 30 PLOT X,0:DR. X,191 40 NEXT X 50 G. 50 And you should end up with something looking like this: or using my own computers as an example: http://imgur.com/gallery/bAOr0 This is how you can upgrade: Which RAM upgrade kits are still available? (mainly available for 800XL and later models, unless noted otherwise) Antonia 4MB http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232856-ram320xe576-order-thread/?hl=%20ctirad(I assume there is a newer location that sells them that I'm not aware of) (please note, the Antonia has 2 different versions one for the XL line and the other for the XE line) Ultimate 1MB http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 ​wizztronics 256K http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/wizztronics%202_256.htm Ctirad 576XE http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232856-ram320xe576-order-thread/?hl=%20ctirad (No soldering required, up to 576k of RAM and please not "up to" as it requires you atari be on 128k of RAM before slotting it in to get that amount, otherwise you won't get 576k) Incognito Don't know where it is available (only for the 800) Rambo XL 256k https://www.bitsofthepast.com/?product=reimaged-rambo-xl-adapter (Please note I've excluded older upgrades and self build upgrades for simplicity reasons, otherwise this would become a very long list) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is there more accurate information about ordering a Antonia 4MB and is everything correct?

I think I can safely say my 800XE has a faulty GTIA going by these results http://imgur.com/gallery/bAOr0 after running this script by Rybags: 10 GR. 9:D=1:FOR X=0 TO 79 20 COLOR C:C=C+D:IF C=15 OR C=0 THEN D=-D 30 PLOT X,0:DR. X,191 40 NEXT X 50 G. 50

So mine doesn't have the faulty GTIA chip? Also what are the markings that you would have one? (than I can add that to the list of things for the first post)

The images of both my 800XE and 800XL. http://imgur.com/a/yxVHW

If they are compatible with each other, meaning 256k of Compyshop can run the same programs as RAMbo could with the same amount of memory. But going by what DrVenkman said it seems to be the case that they aren't fully at least. If nobody minds I'd like to add a section in the first post to create a basic FAQ for RAM, both for personal reference and also for others looking into it. Basically with the "Why upgrade RAM?", "Different RAM standards and why do they matter?", "Can and is it worth it to upgrade my RAM by filling out empty RAM spots on the motherboard?", "Which RAM upgrade kits are still available?" And I'll avoid talking about self build RAM upgrades and legacy upgrades as that confuses things more than necessary but still mention them. For everybody if you know any still available kits please post them and where to get them, the only ones I know of are U1MB, Antonia 4MB and wizztronics 256K board. As for myself I'm still undecided but I think I might go for my 800XE upgrade (if at all possible/decently easy and cheap to do) and maybe later a U1MB or Antonia in my 800XL. At least now I feel like I know enough about RAM upgrades to make a half decent decision, although I still feel as if there are RAM kits that are still available that I don't know the existence of. And I found this on upgrading the 256k for a 800XE that is detailed enough to easily work from: And tonight I'll try to post board pics.

Ahhh alright, that makes sense. I know mine is a 130xe board, dunno what batch though, but I'll send a photo of the mobo as soon as I can. I also remember the mobo of my 800xl is Taiwanese and don't remember it having sockets (so probably a nice desoldering job, if I want to replace that). What are some good identifiers of the board I should take photos of? What if I want to go beyond that the 256k, now or in the future, what would than my options be beyond the before mentioned U1MB? "minus the ECI" That's just in the PBI right? Or are there special things you need that for? As for Rambo vs CompyShop that is just compatibility right? Or are their no real differences? (I'm so glad I made this topic rather than keep looking)

Well in most cases it's just one type of upgrade with very little in the way of different versions (like RAMbo, Compyshop and I heard a few others). Normally an RAM upgrade is just that, a RAM upgrade not a RAM upgrade that has a specific version and can do more than just be RAM. And than there is a apparent lack of communication on the subject especially for people trying to get in without seemingly needing to know a guy. There is a lot of talk about RAM upgrades, but seemingly non on the most basic information things like the what, why and how. Which I find especially weird considering how seemingly common a RAM upgrade is, as other machines with similar popularity have multiple guides to their common mods. There is simply not something along the lines of a "guide to RAM upgrades" or something along those lines. It's just extremely hard to get my head, as someone new the Atari 8 bits, around and find info on what's available, whats useful, what the differences are, where to get it and how to install it. As for modding is fun, it definitely is. Which was one of the reasons why I wanted to a RAM upgrade to begin with, as my other consoles and computers are already to the point that there aren't any useful mods to do on them. How would I make my 800xe into a 130xe? Would it be possible to do the same to 800xl?

Ahh, good to know. Any info on where I could find a tutorial or some document how? Yea I noticed that, which is why I asked. Been doing research of and on for 2 days now and still don't seem to have a real clue on what might be an good option, where to get them or what the differences are between them and what options are out there. Reason being that I haven't jumped on a U1MB yet is simply price and usefulness, for me it seems to be overkill for what I want to do with my atari's, so tossing 65 euro's at it seems to be a waste to me. Which is also why I ask what the use is of the RAM upgrade, because if, say, 64k or 128k is enough to run nearly everything with the exception of 5 or so demo's and games than getting more memory than that seems to be not very useful. All in all RAM upgrades just seem very confusing for the Atari 8 bits compared to any other computer I've noticed. Which is also why I try to get as much info in one thread as that info in one pace might be useful for others that are in the same situation as I am in now.

What's the real differences between those memory modes aside from size? Compatibility with bank switching? And are there any other RAM upgrade possibilities aside from the U1MB, that probably aren't as feature rich? Is, for instance, upgrading the 800xe to 130xe levels useful? And if so, are the chips for that still available without paying an arm and a leg for NOS.

The RAM upgrade seems to be the main bonus, the others seem to me more as nice bonuses for someone like me who'll probably only be using it to play games and run some demo's. So what would be some other options to upgrade the RAM? And would it be smarter for me to upgrade the 800XE instead of the 800XL due to XE bank switching?

I don't care either way about modern-ness. But I think before going on a hunt to find the right upgrade I think it's important to know why to upgrade, which is something I can't find any info on. Case and point, the U1MB seems quite useless to me in the vast majority of cases but it seems to be a quite common mod so there is probably a good reason why that is (aside from availability I reckon). My main question is thus why upgrade and what are the options listed out. That info is seemingly hard to come by, which I find weird, as I can only find the occasional mention of a specific upgrade(aside from the U1MB, which seems to be really common).

What are the different models that I could best buy? 400 - 8k of 16k machine and can be upgraded by adding extra memory in the slots of the machine. This was marketed as a gaming machine which it's design to an extend shows as it's a light weight 800. 800 - 8k to 48k machine and can be upgraded by adding extra memory in the slots of the machine. 600XL - 16k, easy to upgrade (if socketed) by popping in new ram chips and soldering a couple/few wires, depending on the method. 800XL - 64k, the most common - almost ALL software will work on a 64k XL...some 1990s (and onwards) demos and games require more ram. almost ALL Taiwan 800XLs are soldered - which makes upgrading harder. 50% of Hong Kong 800XLs have socketed ram. 1200XL - 64k, the easiest to upgrade, but easier to buy in the USA than europe. most ICs are socketed which makes installing a 256k wizztronics clone, Ultimate 1mb or the newer Antonia 4mb upgrades much easier. almost all 1200XLs will need a clear pic, UAV or similar upgarde to make video reasonable. 65XE - 64k, an XL with ST styling - many do not have the ECI port. 130XE - again, an XL with ST styling, but with 128k ram. 800XE - 64k, eastern european crossover from XL to XE range - some (about 30%) of these have a buggy GTIA chip, but if you strike lucky you get a nice "XL" with freddie chip and ECI. XEGS - 64k, a consolized 65xe. Why upgrade RAM? To either gain access to 130XE library and to more modern demo's, games, etc. Different RAM standards and why do they matter? Plain and simple comparability as some RAM upgrades have different memory adresses, which means some software might not run or not run correctly under a different standard. Can and is it worth it to upgrade my RAM by filling out empty RAM spots on the motherboard on my 65xe or 800xe? Yes, if you have those slots and if you don't want to go all out on the RAM or keep your machine like it was during the machines production life. Watch out for the faulty GTIA's though. You can check for those buy typing in : 10 GR. 9:D=1:FOR X=0 TO 79 20 COLOR C:C=C+D:IF C=15 OR C=0 THEN D=-D 30 PLOT X,0:DR. X,191 40 NEXT X 50 G. 50 And you should end up with something looking like this: or using my own computers as an example: http://imgur.com/gallery/bAOr0 This is how you can upgrade: Which RAM upgrade kits are still available? (mainly available for 800XL and later models, unless noted otherwise) Ultimate 1MB http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=67 ​wizztronics 256K http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/wizztronics%202_256.htm Rambo XL 256k https://www.bitsofthepast.com/?product=reimaged-rambo-xl-adapter 512k SRAM-Extension by Mega-hz: http://mega-hz.de/Angebote/512K/512k.html Due to some upgrades going through production runs of batches and than going out of production until another is announced these might not be available at the time of reading (You could always try and message the creator if they are available still or in the future): 512k SRAM-Extension by tf_hh: Write tf_hh a pm here on AtariAge Syscheck II by tf_hh: Write tf_hh a pm here on AtariAge (only works on 64k machines and higher) Ctirad 576XE http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232856-ram320xe576-order-thread/?hl=%20ctirad (No soldering required, up to 576k of RAM and please not "up to" as it requires you atari be on 128k of RAM before slotting it in to get that amount, otherwise you won't get 576k) Incognito Don't know where it is available (only for the 800) Antonia 4MB http://atariage.com/forums/topic/249405-new-4mb-ram-expansion/?hl=%20antonia (I assume there is a newer location that sells them that I'm not aware of) (please note, the Antonia has 2 different versions one for the XL line and the other for the XE line) (Please note I've excluded older upgrades and self build upgrades, like this, for simplicity reasons, otherwise this would become a very long list. But as wizztronic or Rambo diy build are most common; the chips needed for that are require a 41256. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/122470-ram-upgrade-applications/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1481893) If you have information to add, rectify or remove, please comment so I can change it. Resources: http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-episode-39-i-need-more-memoryFrom 1:05 Nir Dary talks about RAM upgrades which is a similar to this post. Great podcast overal but that segment is good if you want to know about memory upgrades without this wall of text.

The IC's that I replaced was the TMS9928A with the CD4516BE. But I've just tested/ordered MK4516N-15 (becuase CD4516BE I saw that it had the wrong pinout and probably different type of IC) as those are mentioned on the mod page, just to be completely sure to use the correct IC. But I still get only a black screen, but now do get a tone quite consistently. What I think is weird, and I have mentioned it before I think, is that I get the correct channel on multiple channels. And the weirdest is that the best (only one with a tone I think and no noise on the black screen) channel is on 57 MHz, seeing how it is a german colecovision that frequency should be radio (and unpickable by most, if not all, mid/early 80's European TV's).

I just received new ICs as I noticed they weren't compatible and changed them. But i still get a black screen, what else could be the problem?

Yea I was thinking the same myself, when I put them in I didn't check that.

if I read this right: http://console5.com/wiki/4516 and http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlma...DSA-228419.pdf it seems I've placed the IC's backwards. Now I do get 5V but it also seems that they are incompatible for the most part, could anyone confirm it? At any rate still no picture, if they are compatible I might have broken them by putting them wrong way around or it's a different problem. Also may I not that now the actual Videochip get warm instead of the RAM.

Yea that was my thinking also, but I can't find a flaw... Maybe I overlooked it some times. Might be the wires I placed to recover the traces I broke with removing the chips. Maybe you can spot an obvious flaw? (I've removed the CD4516BE's which had the notch the closest edge of the board)

I've found what MIGHT be the problem, I've removed the RAM chips and now it does get 5V and a quick tone+scrambled colored screen. I can add up to 2 Chips, at any spot, after which that voltage drops (with 3 or more) again also those 2 become incredibly hot...

There wouldn't be an easy way to check for that?

*Can't edit post* The SNES did get voltage trough, but not enough to power it (it needs minimum 9V). And still no drop in voltage.

I measured it at the plug and power connector (off and on) and after the inductor it becomes more ~1.28 with not much variety after. I think it's a regulated power supply but I'm not sure. I don't have much for a more extensive load test I believe but I'm going to test it on my for parts SNES and check if it could power it and if voltages change.