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Kroko

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Posts posted by Kroko

  2. Posted

     

    Thanks for the suggestions. All SARA games require bankswitching and the logic is not inside the RAM itself, they all require a PLD. I'll see what I can come up with.

    People should find a PLD which fits to the SARA boards in the store then. They can find the boards, the SARA chip, but no PLD that seems to fit. At least if I click on the PLDs, they look like the standard PLDs that do not support SARA RAM.

  3. Posted

    Great, now the thread is full of replacement ideas for all the stuff I invested a bunch of money into. Since Al's post, I have sold exactly 4 boards. :|

    Don't worry. Maybe someone wants a few hacks to be played on the real thing. Like e.g. my dring controller hack of Sprintmaster.

     

    And maybe you should advertize using a list of games which require SC, so those who are not deep into Atari programming get a better understanding of your offer.

     

    Thanks Thomas, that is a great idea.

     

    I think you should really add the "newbies guide to SARA":

     

    When I was browsing through you store, I could not really figure out which parts are needed to make a complete

    SARA board. Does the SARA chip contain the bankswitching logic as well ? I think it would also make sense to show people a bit better what they do exactly need if they want to make a SARA game. And there have been F8, F6 and F4 games with superchip. Is this only for F8 or also for the other schemes ?

     

    So, ... which parts do I need to make an F8 SC game. Do I also need one of your PLDs ? Where are the F8SC PLDs ? What if I wanted to make a F6 game with the SARA chip. Would that work as well ? And how about F4 ?

     

    Maybe all this is 100% clear to other people, but unfortunately not for me ...

     

    Armin :)

  5. Posted

    Did you want me to try Dig Dug as a single cart image or as part of a multicart?

    Please try to download the single DigDug binary to the Krokodile. Then try the Krokodile on the FB2. If DigDug does not run, then the FB2 has an incompatible bus timing (at least incompatible to the Krokodile)

     

    Please start the game and look if the playfield is constructed correctly. You can't really see if it works from the title screen ...

  6. Posted · Edited by Kroko

    When I was building the Java version of the software, I saved the multicart image to a file (instead of transferring it to the krok cart) and tested it under stella and z26. In both cases I saw this behaviour (the menu would simply reset after selecting an image). I suspect it should be possible to fix this issue by modifying the multicart image, though I don't have the source.

    The Multicarts have a special bankswitching mode that is not supported by the current emulators. It combines a single switch 3F scheme with one other bs scheme. The multicart images will only work on the Krokodile cart until the Emulator authors decide to support the Krokodiles Multicart Bankswitching mode.

     

    The issue with the 7800 is the startup sequence. It does access the Krokodiles multicart bankswitching hotspot. Thats why the Krokodile immediately switches to game 0. There was no way to work around this without making the second Krokodile run incompatible to the first run ( which I didn't want to do)

     

    If the multicart does always switch back to the menu, then I think its not the same problem as on the 7800. It sounds more like a timing issue. Can you please try DigDug und the FB2 ? If that one works, it can't be the timing ...

     

    This happens if the hotspot is accessed by the menu, but the cart does not switch banks (which is the case in all emulators)

  7. Posted

    For example, A0. ... There are more. ...

    I don't connect the unnecessary pins, like A0, A1, A2 etc. but still, I/O is the most limiting factor on th XC95..XL that I am going to use.

     

    I am not really sure what you mean here because A12 is high true, and NOE is low true, so you wont be able to just tie them together. How did you plan on multiplexing them?

    I was confused, of course this won't work :(

     

    For me, I went with one cart interface. My first designs were my own programming registers through the CPLD, after that they were JTAG (it made sense to me to use the resources already sitting on the board). The hardware and the software were more complex, but it made the user interface simple and quick. Program times are longer, but I didnt care.

    I also like the idea, but now that I had some contact with this xsvf stuff I am a bit afraid of it. Its not really what I would call "simple". Maybe I am only missing a good teacher :) I just recorded stuff in iMPACT and downloaded it via the Xilinx xsvf player sample code. But writing XSVF myself may be not that easy ...

  8. Posted

    Let me know if that was really confusing, I will try again. I can send you the schematics if it would help.

    Thanks, this is not confusing at all :) But as you wrote, this approach will still cost me at least one I/O line. What would be possible is to first upload the "programmer" .jed file to the logic chip, then program the flash with this and finaly upload the bankswitcher .jed to the CPLD. This way I would probably not lose resources in the logic chip, but only add programming time. Well, maybe it would take longer than the "direct" JTAG method ...

     

    Do you think I could double use NOE and A12 ? Or do you see any problems with this.

     

    So I think the final decision would be to either have

     

    * programming header, but very quick programming times and a little more bankswitching power and not too much effort to develop the SW to programm it

     

    OR

     

    * no header, long programming times and a little less flexibility for the logic chip ( 1 line missing) and quite complicated programming SW

     

    Hm .... what would you do ?

  9. Posted · Edited by Kroko

    If you just use JTAG pins, then all the pins needed to reprogram the flash part must be connected to the Xilinx chip.

    Why ? the data and adresslines are available at the edge connector. We only need to influence the address lines that are not directly connected to the atari edge connector, or ? The programmer can set the "public" lines and JTAG sets the lines that are only available to the logic chip.

     

    EDIT: Ok, we would have to connect the NWE line to the logic chip, which we don't have to do if we have an extra connector, NCE is connected anyway and I am not 100% sure about NOE. spending two additional lines is not nice, i must admit ... maybe I can connect A12 and NOE ... but we would still lose one line

  10. Posted

    Is it possible to influence the logic chips output pins by sending commands to its jtag interface ? That would be great and I could get rid of the second edge connector, or ?

     

    The XC9536XL has a 108-bit shift register, along with some associated logic, to allow any of the 36 I/O pins to be driven high, low, or tri-stated, and to allow the state on those pins to be read back. I have a bookmark at the office for the page where I got my information. The biggest limitation of using the JTAG for in-circuit programming of a flash is that changing any pin requires re-shifting all 108 bits of data. Thus, I highly recommend wiring the /OE and /WE pins directly to the programming connector; this will allow you to shift out the address and data, then pulse /WE, then shift out the next address and data, pulse /WE, etc. Otherwise, it would be necessary to shift out address and data with /WE low, then shift out the same address and data with /WE high, etc. Twice as many shifting operations, ergo twice as slow to perform the programming.

    I would only use the JTAG method to program the flash chip, if I can get entirely rid of the programming connector. If I need a connector, I would still think the pci connector is a good idea, because there I have everything I need and access is fast and easy. I don't see a good reason to change the connector, or ? I would probably look into this JTAG method, if the Atari edge connector was all I needed. Speed would then be priority 2.

  11. Posted

    The documentation can get a little confusing. You only need to worry about the boundary scan stuff if you want to program flash.

     

    Check this web site for JTAG software:

    http://www.ricreations.com/JTAG-Software-Downloads.htm

    The software may not be interesting, but their demos could help explain the JTAG.

     

    You can download some more demo software from here:

    http://www.goepel.com/content/html_en/inde...amp;level3=bsdl

    you have to register, but you can fill in fake information. This ones a little confusing, but I am sure you can manage.

     

    Vern

     

    Thanks ! I will have a look :)

  12. Posted

    If you are using the XC9536XL, you can use the boundary scan mode of the chips JTAG circuit to program the flash connected to it. You may want to write your own software to did it, purchasing software can be very expensive. I found that programming an AVR or ARM to take serial requests from a PC, then translate them into JTAG commands works best. You will end up with a universal JTAG interface that way.

    Can you explain that a bit more please. I now know how to programm the logic chip (thanks to your help), but I have

    no Idea how I could programm a flash chip that is connected to the logic chip. Is it possible to influence the logic chips output pins by sending commands to its jtag interface ? That would be great and I could get rid of the second edge connector, or ?

     

    The JTAG is very simple to manipulate in boundary scan mode, only a couple commands and a bunch of bit shifting. Send me an email it you want help.

    Would be great if you send me documents about this :) Or tell me where to find them ...

     

    A tip to program the CPLD through the VCS card edge instead of creating a whole new card edge, use pin 24 as the TCK pin on the JTAG port. You need to pull it down with a resistor and add a tiny cap, but it works really well. The other three pins of the JTAG can be multiplexed with any of the VCS address or data pins.

    And you are not worried, that we could accidentally reprogramm the logic chip, because of noise on the sground pin when the board is plugged into the vcs ? Or that the board could crash the game when programming mode is entered during the game ?

  13. Posted

    Xilinx XC9536XL can be programmed in-circuit.

    Yes, the logic chip is reprogrammed in circuit, but I am not sure that the flash chip I am using can be reprogrammed in circuit, at least probably not without connecting the complete bus. What Flash chip are you using ?

  16. Posted

    Yes, true. Andrew did it more than 1000 times without problems. In my opinion, the only setup that does cause trouble is, if vcs power is off and extra power connected ...

     

    Thanks for clearing this up (and thanks for producing such a great bit of kit). I don't think I will risk programming directly on the 2600 for now...

     

    Chris

     

    Maybe you have a cheap junior where you may want to take the risk ;)

  17. Posted

    I always program the cart when it's plugged into the console and without using extra power. Theoretically there is a chance this might harm the console (not the cart!), but AFAIK (I talked about this to Kroko) it is very minimal.

     

    Yes, true. Andrew did it more than 1000 times without problems. In my opinion, the only setup that does cause trouble is, if vcs power is off and extra power connected ...

  18. Posted

    There seems to be a bit of ambiguity as to wether it is OK to program the KC while it is plugged into the 2600. The manual says that it shouldn't be done, but this forum seems to say that the cart can be powered directly from the 2600?

    I don't see any ambiguity. The power source should only be plugged in when you're programming the cart. The power source should NEVER be plugged in while the cart is inserted into the 2600. Instead, the cart will run off of the power provided by the 2600. The cart should NEVER be programmed while it's inserted into the 2600 for the same reason it shouldn't be plugged in.

     

    jbanes is absolutely right :) You should only use the cart in two modes:

     

    1. Prog-Mode: Cart is NOT plugged into your Atari and is connected to the serial cable and its power supply

    2. Play-Mode: The Cart is not connected to its external power supply. You may connect it to the serial cable, but picture quality may be degraded

     

    What you should NEVER do (if you love your console) is to reprogramm the cart while it is plugged into the 2600 with VCS power OFF, but external power supply connected.

  20. Posted

    is there a battery in this that needs to be ever charged?

    There is no battery. It is using flash memory. It does not need to be charged.

    You only need to connect the power supply when you are programming it.

    It then keeps its content until you reprogram it.

     

    A multicart rom is just like any other rom. The difference is only that it

    contains a menu system to choose from the different games. You could

    say its one big rom with built in menu system :)

     

    You can put any rom file on the quick pick buttons by right clicking the

    button. It does not matter if you put a standalone ROM or a multicart

    ROM on the quickpick button. You download the rom by left-clicking the

    button.

     

    The software does not support cartridge erasing as a standalone operation.

    You simply replace the content when you write to it the next time. If you

    really want to erase it for some reason, make a file which contains 512K

    of rubbish and download it.

  22. Posted

    I think that the price point of the boards should be as low as possible. The RAM-less boards aren't bad, but those boards with RAM are getting kind of pricey. If there's any way you have a slightly more expensive programmer and make the boards cheaper, it will save money in the long run.

    Yes, I know. Maybe I find a way to make it cheaper. On the other hand there

    are no components on the board I could transfer to the programmer. But maybe

    I can make the board smaller, single sided and find a company who is assembling

    them for less than I had thought :)

     

    I LOL-led at the sight of an Atari 2600 board in a PCI slot, even if it was just a programming socket, not real PCI. I don't think you have to worry about running out of PCI slot hardware any time soon, though.

    For some reason, I love the connector :love: But on the other hand I got a mail from Digi-Key that the connectors I ordered from them will become obsolete :x

  23. Posted

    At minimum you need 13 address inputs, a timing input, a chip-select output, a timing output, and nine banking outputs (use tri-stating to select among them, and pullups to establish a default). So 14 inputs and 11 outputs.

     

    I wonder how Parker did it with a 22pin chip. :?

     

    http://www.atariage.com/cart_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=1955

    I almost agree with supercat, apart from the 9 banking outputs. I think 3 are sufficient. The 3 outputs control A10 to A12 on the Rom chip. In addition PB could skip the 2 lines for the timing circuitry, because it is contained in the custom chip.

  25. Posted

    The Parker Brothers baking scheme works much the same way as some minicomputer paging systems

    As I see it it is just storing a few bank numbers in a few registers. Just like F8,F6,F4 and any other banking scheme.

    It is confusing for most people if you tell them that E0 was a bs mode which requires a RAM chip, because it is Superchip, FA, E7,AR etc.. which actually do require RAM. F8,F6,F4,3F,F0 and E0 don't.

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