CharlieChaplin

So here is version 3 and also the last update for this overview (with lots of tables). I removed the 2880k (extra high density) format, since it is hard to find any disk drives or diskettes that work with that format. Furthermore I corrected some typos and changed the height of the tables and the fontsize (from 12 to 14). So there you have it, the rest is up to you... ;-) Formats_and_DOS_v3.zip

Please note that Copymate XE V3.8 requires a minimum of 128k RAM - it will not work with 48k or 64k RAM, therefore it supports up to 320k RAM, which is not much when you copy 720k diskettes with it, but enough for 90k/130k/180k disks...

You may try Diskcopy from (german) TurboDOS XL/XE - if it works from UNO cart. Since I do not own a UNO cart, I am unable to test if it works there... This is a standard sectorcopy program for 90k, 130k, 180k and 360k. Version 1 works without any speeders (you may use HiasSoft XL-Hi-Patch OS up to Pokey divisor 0), while version 2 works with Happy, Speedy, XF551 and Turbo1050 speeders (limited to Pokey divisor 5 or 6 I think). You can use diskcopy to copy whole disks, it will format the destination disk (or image) automatically. It is also possible to convert 90k disks into 130k disks or vice-versa (e.g. if sectors 721-1040 are empty). And the two copy programs will verify written sectors, the older version 1 will even verify read sectors. To make changes in the menu, press the ESC key, then cursor-keys up+down to choose an entry and Return key to change it to on or off (e.g. change "Quit on empty sector" to "off" for all non DOS 2/DOS 2.5 disks), press ESC again to leave the menu and simply press Return to start copying. When copying (and verifying) is done you can reboot by holding the Select key and then pressing Reset. dskcopy1.avi dskcopy2.avi Diskcopy.zip

The disk is "spinning in the other direction" (the second read/write head writes data the other way around, i.e. if one side is written clockwise, the other side is written counter-clockwise) and because of that a 1050 (even when enhanced!) can only read the first half of a DS/DD diskette. Sidenote: Not sure about the 810, can it read the first 720 sectors of a 130k disk or is it unable to do that ? If it can't read a 130k disk at all, then I am wondering why Atari DOS 2.5 used the < and > brackets for 130k disks with files beyond sector 720...? If you format the backside of a diskette with one index hole on the 810 or 1050, then the Mistumi XF551 can at least read it or write to it (it just cannot format it). The later Chinon drive mechanics are worse, they cannot read, nor write nor format this backside, since they always look for the index hole...

How about some music during the game or at least in the title ? Hmmm, the game is named "I ran", so you could try a Pokey conversion of "I ran" by A Flock of Seagulls... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpfWORQWhU

You could search for a case from an Atari SF-314 or SF-354 drive...

Please stop here and continue with AVG relevant stuff, thank you !

Yes, I would like to have them as 8k or 16k ROMs. It would be okay, if the fixed 8k ROMs get a length of more than 8k and therefore require a 16k ROM (e.g. Gorf), but 128k is a little bit too much and I do not want to load a pre-pended OS...

Here are some CAR images that have already been fixed... - colour fixes - bugfixes - XL-OS fixes - etc. Would be great if the remaining programs could also be fixed. FIXED_Carts.zip

Thank you larryleffaovell ! So, only 9 programs from the above list remain: - Danger Ranger - Gorf - K-Krazy Kritters - K-Star Patrol - Picnic Paranoia - Protector II - Seafox - Slime - Speedway Blast Maybe Gorf could be packed/compressed and then additional (fix) code be added ?!? Or one could turn it into a 16k ROM cartridge (instead of 8k ROM)...?!?

Well, I do have Slime and Protector II on an original red cart and they both do not work on my 800XL computers. Had also Fort Apocalypse on an original grey cart. (but gave it away) and this did not work on the XL-OS (Rev. 2), luckily Wrathchild already did an XL fix for Fort Apocalypse... These carts were released in 1982, so the only XL available then was the 1200XL (the mentioned carts were not re-released as grey XE/XEGS carts)...

Hello folks, think this topic came up several times, there are some carts that work on OS-A or OS-B only. Some of them were patched to work on XL/XE, but released as .XEX or ATR versions and I would like to have them as ROM/CAR versions, if possible. Here are the few remaining cart versions (8k and 16k) I would like to have patched so the ROMs work fine on XL/XE... - Danger Ranger: a selfmade cart, the original tape works fine on XL/XE, so maybe one could fix this cart ? - Gorf: there is a disk version for XL/XE, but maybe someone finds a way to fix the cart also ? - K-Krazy Kritters - K-Star Patrol - Monster Maze - Picnic Paranoia - Pool 400/800 by IDSI - Protector II - Seafox - Shamus: there was a patched XEX version released - Slime: again, exists as a patched XEX version - Speedway Blast - Survival of the Fittest As said before, I would like to have these programs as ROM/CAR versions that work fine on XL/XE computers - maybe someone already fixed one of these programs ? OLD_OS_Carts.zip

Hmmm, there was also "Grafik Forth" by Rainer Hansen, licensed to PPP for a certain time. When Sascha Roeber bought the rights of PPP this license had already expired, so it went back to the author. The only PPP "Laboratorium" I remember was by Waseo, named Waseo Laboratorium... (Afair, Waseo declared their programs as freeware, including Waseo Grafinoptikum, Waseo Trilogy, Waseo Laboratorium and several others.)

This could e.g. happen when you try to write a 130k disk onto a 90k image. Several years ago I also found some 90k disk images that had DOS 2.5 on them and files in the directory with the < and > brackets around them - so these originally were 130k disks. Of course when trying to load the <files> (that were not available on the 90k disk image!), I always got Error 139... Or if you are copying files from a disk to a disk image, it could be differences in the 130k format. Several DOS 2 versions support the 130k format, but not all of them are compatible to each other. For example Atari DOS 2.5 gives you 1010 of the available 1040 sectors, second VTOC is in sector 1024; MyDOS gives you 1027 of the available 1040 sectors, second VTOC is in sector 359 and there are several other DOS 2 versions that do it differently. The 130k standard of DOS 2.5 is well known and many DOS 2 compatible versions use that as well (Bibo DOS, Turbo DOS, XDOS, SuperDOS, etc.), but there are some DOS versions that support the MyDOS standard and others that go their own way of doing it. I have setup an empty 130k ATR in DOS 2.5 format, if you try to copy files onto that image with a DOS that is not DOS 2.5 compatible, maybe you also get Error 139 then...?!?

Afaik, it was called Revelation and there was planned one more part - Destiny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_(series) It would be very very very nice to have all parts of the series for the A8 someday - on a mega cartridge (or cart. image) to avoid any disk flipping and feeling like a disk jockey. Of course this will never happen, except someone wins the lottery and sets up a high prize for this series to be finished...

Yep, the same Y2K problem happens in many A8 calendars, Biorhythm programs and other programs that require a date. If you simply type in "20" they most often will list it as 1920. Wow, an Atari 8Bit in 1920...

Yes, I would not bother with 2880k, since no-one really uses this format (and I also do not know anyone that owns a drive or diskettes capable of this format). If the MyDOS format tool does 90k, 130k, 180k, 360k, 720k and 1440k this is more than enough - but hopefully it does not only format but also write a DIR and VTOC in MyDOS style. Think I have mentioned it various times, that such a format tool only requires 2-3 questions: 1) drive number (1-8) 2) choose format: A) 90k B) 130k C) 180k D) 360k E) 720k F) 1440k (I would choose letters, because they are not next to each other -in a row- like the numbers and it is less likely hitting a wrong letter than hitting a wrong number) 3) Press Return to format drive x (Alternatively: Press "Y" to format drive x) (And question 3 is optional, I think, it could also be left out and the tool could start formatting after question 2 is answered)... Looking forward to see such a formatting tool for MyDOS. This would make the formatting process under MyDOS much easier and faster (then one must no longer use options O and P to format a diskette).

I gave my two AVG carts., two SIO cables and two micro-cables to my friend yesterday for modding. Today he told me he has finished this job and showed me these pictures: But I do not have the AVG carts back yet...

Ah okay. The MyDOS harddisk formats up to 16MB are already covered in the tables I released above. I was so evil to say that MyDOS does not do 1440k and 2880k disk drive formats in these tables, since DUP.SYS is not able to format more than 720KBytes and there were no format tools delivered with MyDOS (other than the one in DUP.SYS). The only formatting tools were afaik later available with the CSS Black Box and the CSS Floppyboard, so in the lines for 1440k and 2880k I simply wrote a "no" regarding MyDOS 4.5x and added a note that you need the BB or FB formatting tools or other external tools (maybe some exist which I do not know) to do that...

Afaik, this is reserved for harddisks only (and not for high density disk drives). If you answer this question with "Y"es, then MyDOS will not ask about tracks or steprate, instead it will only ask about number of sectors (720-65535 are allowed) that are setup as 1 track then... so I guess it is not usefull for 1440k or 2880k disks and disk drives.

Hmmm, afaik, the highspeed SIO patch by HiasSoft (which is most-likely hsio in u1mb you refer to) uses page 1 to achieve its (up to) Pokey divisor zero speed. Maybe your osxex also requires page 1 ?!? Or there is some other conflict with this hsio in ROM... I am no U1MB owner... Most software based (RAM-based) highsio drivers copy the OS into RAM and patch it there, thus utilizing RAM under the OS, which would also break/conflict with osxex... ----- A friend of mine did the special AVG SIO-cables for me and also drilled the holes into the carts. and soldered the small ports onto the pcbs. Hope to have the carts back in a week and then I am ready for testing the new firmware...

With a Hyper-XF one can use max. 720kbyte 3,5" Disks. Utilizing the nice partition feature of the Hyper-XF one can have four partitions of 90k (4x 90k = 360k) or four partitions of 130k (4x 130k = 520k) on one disk, even with DOS 2.5 - so it is not so useless anymore. And with other DOS versions one can also use 180k, 360k and 720k (and one can even use mixed partitions with 90k and/or 130k and/or 180k)...

So here is a small updated version of the Format and DOS tables... (corrected the entries for Sparta, Bewe, Real DOS and SDX). EDIT: See post #33 for a newer version...

Back in the 90s I bought a HDI (high density interface for up to 4x 1.44MB drives) by Erhard Puetz and was wondering what to do with it. It was only the pcb, with no drive, no housing and alas, no software. Bought a Teac drive and an Atari SF housing, but under DOS 2.5 it was almost useless (since the HDI does not work with 130k, I could only use 90k per disk). But back then I also had problems to utilize full 1440k with MyDOS and did not want to switch to SpartaDOS (did not own any CSS Black Box or Floppyboard tools then)... Hmmm, when configuring a drive under MyDOS 4.5x (option "O" from the DUP.SYS menu) it asks for number of tracks, but it does NOT ask for number of sectors per track. So, you can type in 80 for number of tracks and answer "double-sided" with "Y"es, then use option "P" from the menu to set drive to double density (256 BpS) and it will automatically use 18 sectors per track, so max. 720kbytes... Nowadays I am using Speedy 1050 drives (max. 180k) and Hyper-XF drives with four partitions (90k, 130k or 180k) per diskette...

Hmmm, I think 1440k under Sparta or My DOS must use 80 tracks (per diskside!), DS, DD, 36 sectors per track, while 2880k must be 80 tracks, DS, DD, 72 sectors per track ?!? Whereas I do not think one could use 160 tracks (per diskside!) and since e.g. MyDOS and SpartaDOS can max. use 256 bytes per sector (512 BpS is currently only possible with SDX and maybe OS A+ 4.1), the only way to achieve a higher format than 720k with them is using more sectors per track...?!? Guess for SDX it is easier to create a 1440k disk format (or 2880k disk format) by simply switching to 512 BpS?