Lost Dragon

The trouble with going purely off screens shown in magazines or press shots etc is they are often very miss-leading.There was talk about Cal Games II being near finished, yet screens shown were from the DOS version and i spoke to Ex-Epyx coder a while back who said things between Atari and Epyx were so bad, it's very unlikely work ever started on Lynx version. Also mentioned this in it's specific thread, but you cannot take a press ad for Hellraiser and say it was coming on Lynx, when no coding ever started. The screens of Rolling Thunder and Cabal i've seen look far too High Res.to be TRUE Lynx shots, Lynx was a superb system, but it suffered from a low res screen, so mocked up shots by Atari just to generate press/consumer interest, sadly seem all too common. I'd have loved to have seen the Bitmap Bros port ST/Amiga:Xenon 1+2, Speed Ball 1+2, Gods etc to the Lynx, it seemed the ideal platform and those games ideally suited to handheld play.

Never actually played any version of this, but recal Imagitec's game getting a lot of coverage (preview wise) in UK press at the time. It was supposed to be a Trilogy: Daemonsgate I:Dorovan's Key Daemonsgate II:Nomads Daemonsgate III:Homecoming And developers talked of causes from previous games having an effect in a sequel, so IF you killed 'Bob' in the 1st game, you'd have his family out looking for revenge in the second, type affair (and this in 1991, eat that Mass Effect!). Would have made an ideal series for the Lynx i feel. Chalk up another 'What could of been...'.

NES version was said to only be 20% complete before plug pulled and that had a huge market compared to the Lynx, so i'd guess this is nothing more than a case of 'planned for...' in terms of (future) Lynx version at the time.No work ever started on it. Thing with trade adverts are they are designed, booked in magazines etc months in advance. As an 800XL owner seen adverts by Ocean, System 3 all promising XL/XE versions of big C64 games coming soon or actually with a release date, yet work never started on any of them.

As for Quake....yes, i've read the issue of Ultimate Future Games (had full set of the rags once, but threw them out) claiming it was 30-40% complete, yes i've read interviews with I.D where they talk of Doom being optimised if coded from scratch, Jaguar hardware used to full potential, but Quake is whole new ball game. I put the question to my source (see upcoming ST Gamer for full reveal) of wether Quake was really 'possible' on Jaguar, his reply: ' The big hurdle to overcome for Quake (as well as Tomb Raider) would have been the lack of a texture-mapping 3D library. Having such a library would take development of the game from 0% to about 70% in one jump, so someone saying QUAKE was 30-40% done sounds like they were talking about someone working on a library, not so much the game itself.' Plus if you compare Beta versions of Saturn Quake to retail version, you'll see comprimises Lobotomy had to make to ensure game ran at a decent speed, so i struggle to see how Jaguar would have coped.

(sigh) having to multi-post as I.E won't let me sign in on Atari Age, Grrr.... Tomb Raider Jag CD often rolled out, yes it appeared in bonus magazine given away with EDGE magazine, but would it have appeared on Jaguar in anything like the form we know? Of course not, Playstation/Saturn versions alone had cosmetic differences, my source said they used OpenGL for 3D and there was nothing like Open-GL on Jaguar and you've only to look at frame-rates on games that attempted full-screen texture-mapping. ATD talked of how Atari had tried this on an internal project and how the frame rate took a massive nose-dive, hence Battllemorph had limited texture mapping.

The Miss-Information around 'Lost' Jaguar games was primarily the reason i set off trying to contact coders, dig out interviews with them in magazines etc to try and build a much bigger, truer picture of just how far along so many of these games actually got. It's hardly 'fair' to slap up video footage from the Saturn version of Waterworld/PS1 version of Allegiance/3DO version of Powerslide etc and imply that Jaguar owners could have been playing something very similar to this...if only. For starters my source said he only recals talking with Ocean about Waterworld on Jaguar, it never got beyond that (and which Ocean team would have handled the Jaguar version? versions that did appear went to different team as was.) The 3D sections in Saturn Waterworld were coded specifically for Saturn hardware, Jaguar version would have had a major issue trying to match. The 3DO has far better texture-mapping than the Jaguar, so doubtful Powerslide would have looked anything as 'nice' as 3DO footage.

There was big article on Telegames in recent issue of Retrogamer magazine and i had hoped Telegames would at the very least annouce a few of these 'mystery' Jaguar projects they were sat on, even if code had been lost.It would have been nice to know just what games they had secured so we could at least confirm certain games as being true 'Lost' games, rather than just games publishers talked about bringing to the Jaguar (Waterworld) or Atari wanted (Creature Shock, Heart Of Darkness etc) but never secured. Sadly despite Telegames mentioning at least twice they had said 'mystery' games, they never even annouced 1 new bit of information.Very dissapointing.I really do not understand this-why not just say we had X, Y and Z they were around X amount complete, we were never going to finish them or we were but code now lost. It'd clear up so much miss-information regarding 'Lost' Jaguar games.

I lent my clippings and Mag Scans on disk to RVG to be scannedand put up in this thread: http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/index.php?topic=2227.45

Worth a sub note regarding The One Magazine August 1991? Atari had invited the mag down to Slough to look at the canned Panther console and talk of how it was to be replaced by the '32-bit' (as article stated then) Jaguar console, due early following year. Think this was the 1st time the UK Press had actual look/demonstration of the Panther, before this it was all rumour and speculation. Superb work on the timeline though, it has to be said.

Falcon was annouced, yes, as to question regarding any coding actually being started.... Gunship 2000, at best would have been CD32 conversion, i did track down coder of that version, but he never replied to my email about Jaguar version. Magic Carpet, very early code seen of CD32 and A1200 versions (A1200 has no texture mapping etc) but nothing ever seen of Jag version, so i call that proposal only. Robocop:Given the person who made this list thinks the ST version is an authentic port of the Data East coin-op (which it's not, it takes concepts from coin-op and home versions), i'd question that claim :-) Thunderhawk:started out on 32X, switched to Saturn/PS1. Hoping to speak to few Jaguar coders over next few weeks.Will update if any more details come to light. But this def.list needs updating.

Probably committing acardinal sin by digging up such an old thread but, as part of my research forST Gamer etc, various interviews carried out, i can clear up confusion on some of those titles: Thallion:Never had ANY Jaguar projects planned. Heart Of Darkness:Atari wanted as flagship CD game, but were out-bid when Phillips put game up for grabs, so they never secured the game to start with. Waterworld:Never started (interviewed certain person for ST Gamer, he talks about this and how difficult Quake and Tomb Raider would have been on Jaguar and why.Don't want to name him till mag hits retail, as it's an exclusive interview, plus Tomb Raider started out during Sega CD era, put on hold astechnology could'nt meet demmands). JezSan told EDGE magazine years ago Argonaught never did any Jaguar projects and my source (again it'll be in ST Gamer interview) says all that was done was generic FMV was converted to a format Jag CD could read and they tested data transfer on the unit. No real game coding ever started.

According to Atari User magazine: 'Atari had previousily planned to replace the sucsessful 2600VCS games machine over here with the 7800VCS.However officials at Atari UK persuaded their American cousins that the British market would benifit from a machine that could run cassettes-not just cartridges as in the case of the 7800.We feel this offers the best of both worlds, said an Atari spokesman' End of quote.

Elektraglide-Just loved the look of it, superb music and it was the one game a lot of my C64 owning mates used to come round and play. Alley Cat-Just so much fun. Star Raiders:Probably the very 1st Killer App game i ever clapped eyes on. Rescue On Fractulus-probably the second killer app and hated the sloth like C64 version when i played it years later. Phantom-much better than Gauntlet on A8.

:-( Whoops.Knew i should'nt create threads after coming off night shifts. Sorry, link is here: http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/index.php?topic=4340.msg64412#msg64412 Les was'nt even aware there were so many Retro sites out there, so interview if nothing else has raised awareness.

Thought people might like to see a small 'interview' i conducted with Les Player, which i did because i felt it'd be nice to hear the thoughts from a few new names (to myself) , instead of the usual ones that crop up time and time again in likes of Retro Gamer magazine. I gave it to RVG, but saw no reason not to share it on here. If the community can get some thing from it, jobs a good one. The typo comments in that thread, yeah...there were plenty, but then it was done in my spare time, for FREE so i was'nt thinking 'ohh best get a proof reader', just more interested in what Les had to say. I've a few more in the pipeline, but they'll be going to other sites, maybe even here when they are Atari related.

Apols accepted with full military honours :-) I'm me, myself and i, not anyone else.My reasearch is my own, articles kindly written up by Greyfox, as i thought he'd present it far better than i could (and indeed he has), but it inspired me to pen next lot myself, which i have. Put it behind us.

:-) As for Cannon Fodder, i'm fine with the wading, just i cannot shoot, what i cannot see, if it's off-screen.In my eyes, that's as fair as going through a minefield, blindfolded-you might get lucky, chances are you won't. much prefered Sensible Software's 8 bit output on C64 to what they threw out on ST/Amiga, Mega-lo-mania being the exception.

(Cont).As i mentioned in the System 3 thread, friend of mine when researching his Myth piece for Retro Gamer, was told by System 3 that the ST version came out, it did'nt, only a demo.on Zero magazine, i emailed him this fact along with question why the C64 cartridge version+new artwork for, was not mentioned in the article, he never even knew it existed and thanked me for the correction on ST Myth.So yes, i'll stand by my research and unlike RG/Edge/Gamestm writers, i am not getting a penny for my work and asked several times to PAY for my version of the A8 magazine.I'm not rich, i scrape a living by doing mix of day/night shifts, take away shift allowance, i'd be in the mire.I used to be an engineer until issue with my back due to the job, forced a change of employment.

Just to be 100% clear: 1)I know NOTHING ABOUT CODING on the Atari (800XL or ST) so have never claimed to have written ANY games on either, i did own a Sinclair machine (ZX81), again NO coding done.Gameswise and what happened to a good few that were mentioned in various UK magazines, i can say i DO know my stuff. 2)The Laird/A.A's history here-nothing to do with me, was'nt an account holder then/has nothing to do with Greyfox A8 magazine now.Laird has NOT even read the articles i helped Grey with yet, he'll get chance same time everyone else does when it goes on general release. 3)My research, was painstakingly done to best of my limited resources.Unlike Marty G or someone of that standing, i'm limited, so have had to quote from interviews etc done at that period in the A8's history.Claims that are made are backed up by statements from software houses etc at that time.I have avoided using the internet as so much i've read on A8/Lynx/Jaguar etc i know is false.

MODS:Please close my account.Joining here was clearly a huge mistake.Feel free anyone on here to rip into A8 magazine, once you've had a copy that you put nothing into, in terms of trying to get the A8 a lot wider coverage and follow up on what became of annouced games and why etc, just don't question why you don't see many A8 articles these days in future, because the simple answer is, if this is the response when people do try something..sweet jeez... I'm actually insulted people think i'm The Laird, check my bloody I.P details if you want proof and i'm being paid for giving something to the community.Very small minded attitude by a small percentage on here sadly. I was more than willing to give this forum a chance, but you've done nothing to help it's image in certain places, just played into their hands.

As for this: 'I'm sorry but your unlike of the viscosity of water rather disturbs me, the US troops in Vietnam could not control it but you dislike its action in a game....' A W.T.F post if ever there was.Games=escapism.Past conflict's that nations just cannot seem to get over=reality, if your thinking Cannon Fodder was designed with realism in mind...i think it's clear Elvis has indeed left the building.

@Mclaneinc-This will be my last post on this subject, plus this forum, period at this rate as i'm utterly shocked by certain attitudes on here.Despite explaining things numerous times, the message just is'nt getting through here, so one more time: No, i am not get paid for any of 'my' articles, (nor am i 'rich')-some of s do not requre a cash incentive to do something for a community.No, i'm not 'The Laird', nor have i ever even attempted any coding (might have picked that up in my earlier post in another thread where i said 'I'm not a coder' .....). Games like Dark Souls, Demon's souls are challenging but fair, Cannon Fodder was just poor design, it's that simple. Last Ninja was listed as 'coming soon to Atari 800/130XE' in the big, 2-page adverts System 3 put in UK mags like Zzap 64/C+VG, i found a follow up point to what became of it, but i guess experts like yourself already knew full story...all you've done is make me wonder why i bothered joining here.

@McLaneinc: 'As for doing it for free....Very unlikely, pulease........Working for free is one of the great lies of the age....' Bit of a sweeping statement there, but i'll 'bite'... Yes, i contributed for FREE, just as i am on Grey's next project on the ST, just as am helping with Timewarp Arcade etc.I'm lucky enough to be in full time employment, shift work at that, so not looking for extra income, or using any of it to class myself as a freelance jurno.or go on my C.V or anything like that. Cannon Fodder had myself as a gamer, wading through water, slowly, whilst sprites off-screen fired RPG's at me.How the hell that was considered 'fair' in terms of challenging gameplay is beyond me.Plus i gave the game a 2nd chance after originally purchasing on Amiga, i bought again at full price on Jaguar.

Ohh and i believe Sensible Software gave him some graph paper and a crayon and he did some 'level design' for Cannon Fodder 2 or something.Always found the 1st game hideously over-rated, so showed little interest in the 2nd.

@Stephen:I really should know the answer to that one, as i was an OXM subscriber and do recal it getting a slagging at review.I know Stuart has posted a rant on NUON Tempest 3000 on his site, seem to recal he wrote a scathing review of Defender 2000 for ST Format and i swear it's his review (re-jig of the ST Format review) that appeared in EDGE 3/10 i seem to recal, but EDGE don't name reviewers, so cannot say for sure.Stuart always given the retro features for EDGE, PC Zone etc.