Lost Dragon
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Posts posted by Lost Dragon
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8 minutes ago, zzip said:I don't think it's useless, I owned both an STfm and STe, and there was clearly a difference when it came to blits. But was it as good as it could be? IDK, possibly not. It's hard to find a good tech discussion of what the ST blitter can and can't do vs other blitter implementations.
Atari used to show off a demo of flying bird sprites on systems with and without blitter, and the difference in performance was significant. So unless they were doing something shady like purposely crippling the program when running without blitter, it showed that the blitter made a huge difference for software sprites.
Just put them up as an idea how the key UK developers might have reacted to any ST Console with a Blitter included, even though the concept was just to have the vanilla ST hardware in a console case.
It seemed to split the UK Commercial games development community.
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On 9/10/2020 at 5:15 PM, empsolo said:I still don't get how in the world Atari UK was dismissive of the CD-ROM. Did they not pay attention to what was happening in the PC Clone market and understand that CD-ROMs were going to break open the market rather quickly with the multimedia revolution?
Found the Gleadow quotes..
Bob Gleadow :CD-ROM simply lacks software development support, software available for ST CD Drives included such useful items as "The Swiss telephone directory and a spares list for the Boeing 757"...Atari would support any developer who wanted to move to CD, but at present (June 1990),multimedia was an immature concept.. A buzzword.
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Whilst looking at industry figure talk on the STE, this quote from the late Les Player of Atari UK caught my eye and reflects the issues within Atari at that time.
LES:Atari hyped it (the STE) long before it arrived and that was always going to be a problem. Even insiders at Atari weren't sure what the machine would be like and people started to read between the lines.
As a software developer now I can see Atari having real problems getting people to write for it.
But to be fair, it's not really Atari's fault. It's just a problem of evolution.
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On 9/9/2020 at 8:29 PM, zzip said:I think an STgs may have worked, but it depends on the year. It would have to be before the Sega Genesis. If it had the blitter, that would help make up for lack of sprite hardware.
Found some more varied talk from UK developers regarding the STE Blitter:
Jez San, (Argonaut) :As I understand it, the Blitter is virtually unusable.
Glen Corpes (Bullfrog) The Blitter's not as good as it could be.
Wayne Smithson (Blood Money) The Blitter is pretty useless as well because there's no barrel shift of any kind, you still have to shift the graphics.
And apart from the odd shoot-em-up, the hardware scrolling will hardly be used.
Jeff Minter:I wouldn't mind using the hardware scrolling just because it's there
John Brandwood (Ocean Software):I think the Blitter and hardware scrolling are the best parts (of the STE) and the machine (ST) was desperate for those.
Andy Pennell (HiSoft) The Blitter is nice
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@zzip :
It was back when the Pro was known as the Neo
I remember Sony then promoting the Pro as the system for HDR and 4K Televisions and saying it was upto developers how and where they used the raw power, an approach they offered with PS2 and PS3.
So the affordable home VR experiment from Sony has fared better than say motion control and 3D TV gaming, but never found the legs to be a pivotal focus for the PS5?
Would that be a fair appraisal?
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People also need to understand what a contractual conversion entails.
I'm going to use Dreamcast Spiderman as an example.
Treyarch were given the task of converting the Neversoft Playstation code to the Sega 128 bit architecture.
Whilst they remapped controls for the DC pad, tweaked boss A. I after complaints original was too easy, improved animation etc.. you could still feel and see the Playstation origins, especially with the fogging remaining.
Any major level design or gameplay changes would of had to of been approved by Neversoft for a start.
Imagitec Design were well known within the industry for handling conversions, Atari wanted a conversion of Pitfall to the Jaguar, that's what Imagitec gave them.
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What exactly IS the upgrade path if you own a title on PS4 and then upgrade to the PS5?.
Is it title specific?
Friend of mine said Sony have already confirmed people who already own Spider-Man 1 on PS4 will NOT get the upgraded PS5 version for free! (Unlike numerous Xbox games and some EA
I've not touched a Spiderman title since the PS2, so haven't been following.
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4 minutes ago, zzip said:Do you think the PS4's potential wasn't reached? I don't think that will be an issue with a playstation console, since they always sell well and are well supported, unlike the systems you list.
Not so much the Vanilla model, but the PS4 PRO, which Sony were telling us was the result of developers wanting more processing power for PS VR titles.
Whilst PS VR has continued to be supported, I never saw a sudden rush of development support for VR games after the Pro was released and have Sony said anything about plans for VR on PS5?
I'd of liked to of seen the extra processing power of the PS4 used in the realm of more believable A. I, compared to PS3 in games, but marketing can't sell a title on that.
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A friend of mine has been messaging me about how much PS4 Pre-orders are going for on Ebay.. £600 apparently and he's looking at buying numerous consoles on his credit card as an investment...
He can make a killing now and then buy a machine for personal use after Xmas..
New Generation, same consumer tactics.
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1 hour ago, zzip said:That was supposedly a mistake as well.
This is an IP that Sony actually owns, so it's not like they made a deal with From to have it for a limited time. Still that doesn't mean they weren't planning to port it themselves. But I'd have to wonder why? They need to give us reasons to buy a PS5. I haven't seen a lot of other interesting titles yet.
I never played the original, but I played all the other Souls games and Bloodborne. Bluepoint is known for high quality, but I do worry that they are doing this and not From, and wonder if they'll nail the feel of it
I did wonder if something had been lost in translation as it were, Sony owning the Demon's Souls I. P.
It's taken sufficient time for Horizon Zero Dawn to move to PC and the same with Bloodborne, literally THE games of the PS4 for myself, so if Sony leave a sufficient window between PS5 and PC releases, console owners shouldn't feel too cheated and we've done exceptionally well over PC conversions to console, over the years.
It's always a risk having someone else remake a game, they understandably will want to leave their own mark, the fans will be pestering for flaws of the original to be adressed.
It's kind of similar in some way to when Halo was passed from Bungie to 343, Halo 4 was technically fantastic, but it just didn't FEEL like the Halo i grew up with, Reach was the far better Halo experience and Halo 4 put me off further Halo games.
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Jim Ryan later said in an interview :“No one should be disappointed,” Ryan said. “The PS5 versions of those games are built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS5 feature set, and we have an upgrade path for PS4 users to get the PS5 versions for free.
I can't help but notice Jim says take advantage, not FULL advantage, just advantage.
To a layman like myself that means for an open world game like Horizon, faster loading times, maybe some enhanced audio in areas, as well as the expected increased resolution and better frame rates.
You've only X Amount of people working at Guerilla and call me old fashioned, but if Sony want to convince cynics like myself, burnt twice now by extremely poor customer service from them, that they are a horse worth backing for another generation, they need their flagship teams hitting the ground running with titles showcasing just how advanced the PS5 is over the PS4 Pro.
I honestly hope i am proven completely wrong, but i don't want a repeat of my Mega CD, Jaguar and Dreamcast owning days, splashing out on new hardware, who's potential isn't used and i come away wondering why i bothered to upgrade.
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9 hours ago, zzip said:Supposedly this was an error, for Demon's Souls anyway. Sony clarified that it's only coming to PS5.
Still, I don't know how you "accidentally" put PC in your trailer
From what i have seen, there's talk they also said it was coming to other consoles.. 🤔
It screams of timed exclusive as it stands.
As for the video footage so far..
Do Bluepoint actually understand the games combat mechanics or what?
The camera system has apparently been changed and for the worse..
Foot Soliders can be seen being dispatched with one hit kills..
There's no new areas or content..
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6 hours ago, Agamon said:Miles Morales and Horizon FW are coming to PS4, so I have even less interest in getting a PS5 for a good long while.
This is an aspect that i feel Sony have really messed up on.
They showed tech demos of concepts in games that were only possible because of the PS5 SSD and they talk up the possibilities the soundchip in the PS5 has for games...
Now it's become apparent some of the flagship titles are being built around the vanilla PS4 hardware, so i am guess the PS5 versions will simply be the same core game, just in a higher resolution and frame rate.
I can appreciate Sony want to support the PS4 for a few years yet, but the studios should be building flagship titles that are only possible on Playstation 5.
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6 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:Surprised this thread is so dead compared to the Xbox thread. Oh, well. Anyway, here is a thing that I read. Actually briefly glanced at, but close enough, I think.
Given the price hike on games, eye watering prices for the UK, the limp launch line up, fact titles like Demon's Souls remake and Final Fantasy 16 are heading to PC..
The fact Sony seem unable to explain how key functions of the PS5 are going to work...
That they plan to support the PS4 for another 3 years apparently..
Maybe a good few of us are thinking we might sit this upcoming generation out and pray lessons are learned from it and the next, next generation puts some excitement back into gaming.
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3 hours ago, sd32 said:The thing about the SNES is that in theory it can display 256 colors, but no game hits that mark save for maybe menus or static screens. It’s usually around 150 colors due to limitations in the way it can display them.
The PC version looks more colorful because even though it could also display 256 colors, it has less restrictions in the way it can display them. But i am not sure the Jag version is identical to that one.
The Jag port sure is more colorful than the other console versions but I doubt it’s in the thousand of colors.
Imagitec were hyping the planned Amiga CD32 version as running in 256 colours, but that never arrived.
The base platform, that all other versions apparently are based around, was the Genesis version.
Had interview with coder done years ago, probably been lost if not on way back machine
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Before people jump all over the Jaguar version, it should be taken in context that Bullfrog staff have made clear the Jaguar was viewed as a development platform that didn't have the commercial legs to warrant much development time and only Mike Diskett showed any interest in it.
Mike talking about his Jaguar work:
Syndicate and theme park are both very simulation heavy games designed to run on a high end 486 (at the time) and even on PC suffer slow downs, without a major simplification of the game it was never going to run at a constant great framerate. With more time we could have made it run better, but I guess projected unit sales were so low it wasnt worth the business guys at Bullfrog have us spend more time and maybe make a loss on making the games.."
I've no bias, i hated the game (and Theme Hospital) when i tried it on Playstation 😊
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1 hour ago, sd32 said:To me the extra colors don’t make up for the lower frame rate. I did notice it immediately since I was used to the Genesis version. The Sega 32X version suffered the same fate. They just feel choppy and laggy compared to the Genesis game.
I also noticed the same problem in Raiden BITD. Funny how 30fps bothered me in those games and also In the Sega Master Systems Wonder Boy 3, but didn’t bother me on Streets of Rage 1 for the Genny nor Metal Slug for the Neo Geo. Maybe because the former i had played on other platforms at 60fps and not with the later.
So to me, Jag Pitfall and Raiden do play worse than the Genesis versions (and sound but that’s debatable). But Raiden in the SNES has the worst performance of all, that one is unplayable.
Also, I feel like even color wise Jag Pitfall isn’t that impressive... compared with some of the Jaguar exclusives. Isn’t it based on the Windows version? Which is 256 colors. Thus there would be no thousand of color graphics on the Jag port.
Both Raiden and Pitfall were done by Imagitec Design, a development team Atari used because they could deliver a title within a reasonable time frame and within a reasonable budget.
Your not going to have software houses optimising code and making substantial improvements on the existing versions, unless there is a large enough installed user base to warrant it.
That was never the case with the Jaguar, it was more a case of simply getting software out whilst there still was a commercial market for it to speak of.
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Not being able to quit a mission and make changes, which would make the mission less frustrating, just killed Mad Max on PS4 for myself.
Had been enjoying it, until i reached the defeat Stank Gump Death Race mission.
I'd done as the game advised, upgraded car with heavy armour etc, but that just had it handling like a P. O. S in the actual race and leaving me little chance to catch up with Stank..
So,i thought i would simply quit mission, remove all armour etc and mod the car for speed.
No chance, game won't let you do that and as i have been using Autosaves.. i am stuck with the car configuration.
Won't be returning to this one again.
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Whilst talking about Lynx Rolling Thunder in Frank Gasking's GTW book, Chuck Ernst reveals he approached Atari with idea they see Mortal Kombat converted to the Lynx.
Atari Management rejected the idea, saying they already had Pitfighter and that was similar enough.
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On 9/14/2020 at 3:50 PM, zzip said:That's true of any company. They are always going to put a positive spin in interviews and do press releases that make the most mundane things sound amazing.
But now years after the fact you can find interviews where the people involved are more honest, like that Leonard Tramiel talk I posted or that Michael Katz interview someone else posted which basically confirmed what we all had already figured out. Jack only really cared about the ST at first, and selling the console line was just a way to earn easy cash to help that.
Just to clarify my earlier statement, I learnt more about the goings on of the likes of:
Imagitec Design
Bullfrog
System 3
Core Design
Argonaut
HMS
By speaking with and reading interviews etc others carried out with the staff of, than i ever did from likes of:
Peter Molyneux
Jez San
Jim Gregory
Martin Hooley
Jim Gregory
Mark Cale.
Company bosses far too often like to use interviews to rewrite history, blame others including the Tramiel family, rather than admit they had staffing and financial issues,promised far more than they could deliver etc.
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On 9/14/2020 at 3:50 PM, zzip said:That's true of any company. They are always going to put a positive spin in interviews and do press releases that make the most mundane things sound amazing.
But now years after the fact you can find interviews where the people involved are more honest, like that Leonard Tramiel talk I posted or that Michael Katz interview someone else posted which basically confirmed what we all had already figured out. Jack only really cared about the ST at first, and selling the console line was just a way to earn easy cash to help that.
From personal experience and not just relating to Atari and the Tramiel Family, you build a much better picture of events by collecting interviews and information from the employees of a company, than the company heads, you just need a good number of them, for the most balanced appraisal.
So much of what Sam Tramiel said in interviews never came to pass or was grossly exaggerated, the interviews just make for a curio when reading back through them now.
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On 9/13/2020 at 9:34 PM, zzip said:Didn't Dungeon Master eventually get ported to Amiga? It was on PC
Yep.
Needed 1Meg of memory, but Amiga version had stereo sound.
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In the look at Lynx Rolling Thunder section in Frank Gasking's GTW book, Chuck Ernst briefly talks about spending 3 months getting up to speed on the Panther, doing debugging.
Atari gave him a development kit, essentially a 7800 with more Ram and slightly faster CPU, Chuck said Panther was supposed to be Atari's next Bleeding Edge console, but it was a mess and pretty much didn't do anything it was supposed to do.
AtarI apparently said "we're going to get our asses kicked by the Super Nintendo, it has scaling and other crazy technology"
Chuck also talks of how the coin-op Atari gave them for Lynx Rolling Thunder only had 8 levels, not 10,as it was an early prototype and the chip reader they needed to rip artwork directly from the arcade Roms was broken and Atari refused to pay the $1,200 to replace it, feeling it was cheaper to have an artist recreate it by hand.
Thanks go to Frank for yet more Panther insights.
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How powerful was the cancelled Atari Panther compared to the Atari ST/Amiga?
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
Les Player was Atari UK Technical Manager and responsible for kick starting software development in the UK and Europe on a number of levels.
Sadly no longer with us, he's the first Atari source i have ever seen saying that even sources within Atari weren't sure what the exact STE specifications were going to be.