jaybird3rd
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Posts posted by jaybird3rd
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It still seems a little strange to me that the same button could be broken on two different joysticks, but I suppose stranger things have happened. Are you certain you've tried both joysticks in both controller ports? Does the right button work on 2600 games, or 7800 games, or both (you started out the thread by saying that it was the right button that was broken, but now it works fine ...)?
If indeed the joysticks are broken, you'll either have to replace the cable or one of the dome switches inside the controller. I couldn't tell you which without more troubleshooting (and much more specific information on what is happening). Most 7800 consoles seem to sell for anywhere between $20 and $40 depending on what condition they are in and how many games are included.
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So, the left button does not seem to work with either 2600 or 7800 games. What about the right button? Is it working with 2600 games, or is it only broken in 7800 mode?
It sounds to me like you've got some bad joysticks.
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You said earlier that the right button wasn't working. Is this the case for both 2600 and 7800 games? Also, does the left button work with 7800 games? Make sure you test with a 7800 game that uses both buttons independently (Asteroids, Xevious, etc.)
A potentiometer is the "dial" inside of Atari paddle controllers. The inputs used for these are also used by the 7800 controller buttons (in two-button mode). See my earlier post for a clarification about what needs to be fixed.
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Both of the action buttons on a working Atari 7800 controller should work independently in two-button 7800 games and should also "map" to the CX-40's single action button on single-button 7800 games (and on all 2600 games). This is possible because both buttons are wired together to the 2600 trigger input, but are also wired seperately to the two potentiometer (paddle) inputs.
To diagnose the problem, this is the first thing I would try: plug in a 2600 game and see if both buttons on the 7800 controller work. If they do not, it is almost certainly a mechanical problem with the controller or a bad joystick cable. If both buttons work in 2600 mode but only one works in 7800 mode, it could be either a controller problem (a bad cable or a bad resistor) or a problem with the port itself. To test the port, try a two-player 2600 paddle game (if you have a set of working paddles) and see if both paddles work. If neither do, it's a problem with the power pin, and if only one of them does, it's a problem with the potentiometer inputs. If they both work, you'll probably need to replace either your joystick cable (more likely) or one of the resistors inside the joystick.
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Looks good so far!
And I'd be willing to bet you've done more work on the label than anyone has done on the game (aside for those glorious design documents, of course!)
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I just picked one up too. I already own a silver/black unit but have been looking for a beige one for games. Thanks for such a great deal!
I've still got my "Read This First" and "Beginner's BASIC Card," too, so you don't need to bundle them with mine either.
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That's a good possibility.What probably happened is actually the "opposite", that the memory requirements didn't change. Those game required 48k of RAM at the disk version. And possibly they still require about the same amount on cartridge. The difference is that with the cartridge inserted, the machine now has less RAM.So perhaps the extra "under the ROM" RAM is needed to compensate for the lack of RAM at the cart. space.
I'd love to know what was involved in getting these disk-based games running from the cartridge to begin with. I noticed on the Lode Runner cartridge's title screen that Atari added a developer credit for Chuck Peavey, which makes me think that the game required extensive reworking to run from the cartridge (understandable since it originally loaded new levels from the disk). However, other games (like Archon) don't seem to have been changed much at all. Did Atari have access to the original source code for these games, or did they have to reverse-engineer them?
When I have time to do more A8 programming, I might want to try my hand at converting disk-based games to cartridge myself. I wish Atari had released more disk-to-cartridge conversions; I've always liked dedicated cartridges better than disks or multi-carts.
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this whole argument regarding the XL/XE OS and 400/800 OS is sort of ridiculous, itwould be very simple to include BOTH or even have a "translater" type prog for any
file that wont run on xl/xe os... rem these things are tiny tiny !!! the rom file
for OSB (400/800) is like 10k uncompressed!!!
True, you could put the translator code and the game code together and go with the Xl/XE OS. That doesn't resolve the four-controller issue, though.
Of course, any speculation about the FB3 is kind of ridiculous at this point. We don't know for sure what Atari's plans for the FB3 are and won't find out until they're ready to reveal them and surprise us. I just enjoy getting excited about and speculating about an upcoming Atari console again; it's been a long time.
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The dirty Q-Tips soaked with rubbing alcohol that are left over after you're done cleaning the card-edge connector inside your NES cartridges. Either that or the dust that flies back in your face after you blow into the cartridge slot.
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The trouble with being innovative is that has anybody who has bought the Artari name been looking to improve what Atari stood for? Of course not, the name has been bought and sold as a brand name only. Sell to people on nostalga, not creativity. If Infotari does go out of business, then the next owner of the name will just do the same old thing the previous owners have done. I mean really, how many versions of Missle Command do we need and can anybody make big money with it?These points, and the points jbanes has brought up, are some of the reasons I'm so excited about the new line of Flashbacks, and in particular the forthcoming FB3. Atari does need to be creative and innovative and in the business of developing new game ideas again, instead of doing what everyone else does and recycling their existing library of classics in either emulation packs or Hasbro-style 3D "remakes." The problem is that, with the way that the modern console and computer market has evolved, it is very difficult to make money being too creative because game development is too expensive to waste on far-out ideas that might not pan out.
That's where the FB3 comes in. Developing games on the FB3 is going to be a lot cheaper because they'll be the work of one person or of a small group of people, and because they can be developed on a small budget, Atari will be able to sell them at competitive prices and still make a decent profit. If a new idea doesn't work out, they haven't lost very much, and if it does work out, they've got a hit. This is the same economic model that existed back in the 80s, but the new TV-game market that's opened up in recent years makes it possible in today's world. If Atari chooses the Atari 400/800 as the foundation of the FB3 as I think they will, they'll have a platform that offers all kinds of potential for future development (along with a gigantic collection of launch titles). It won't be like the old Atari was, obviously, but if they do it right, Infogrames' Atari could make it work for them.
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I'm not saying that every one of them needs to be familiar to buyers already. I'd love to see some European games on the FB3; I think a lot of them (like Elektra Glide) would make great additions to the system, and earlier in this thread, I think I said that Atari should consider using them as long as they're written in English and as long as any problems with licensing games from another country can be worked out.So, basically, you're saying that the buyer needs to be familiar with every single game in the FB3? Heck, if there are just five newer, lesser-known games out of forty titles that require the XL/XE OS, why restrict yourself to a lesser system if you have the choice? Any old game that doesn't work with the XL/XE OS can be made compatible in a snap anyway... Apart from MULE, how many other classic four-player games are there exactly?My only point is that, if it comes down to a choice between (for example) including an XL/XE game that hardly anyone outside of Poland has ever heard of or a more marketable 800-only game, Atari would be hurting their sales to go with the XL/XE OS if it means taking more marketable games out of the running. With a system as idiosyncratic as the A8, in which most games will work with both OSes while some others will only work with one version or the other, Atari will eventually have to settle on one OS for the FB3 and make some sort of tradeoff. How they do that really depends on what games they think will sell. If indeed it is trivially easy to "fix" the 800-only games, then it's a moot point and they should go ahead and do it, but that makes me wonder why somebody hasn't "fixed" them already.
It would be a mistake to disregard the option of four game ports; in addition to MULE, Atari 800 Asteroids had a four-player option that I remember having a lot of fun with, and I'm sure there are other four-player games I'm not aware of. Having four ports also opens some interesting possibilities for new FB3 games (which I'd also love to see); maybe these could include two-player modes for games that require two joysticks for each player (like Black Widow), or games that can link FB3 consoles together through the extra port(s).
Ah, I understand ... you're saying that people thought the A8 was dead before its time because most of the press ignored new developments out of Europe. I can understand this argument, but I do remember seeing the A8 continue to get support in the States well into the late 80s; I was buying A8 games off of store shelves as late as 1988. It is true that the C64 and Apple II got support that the A8 deserved, though, and the C64 in particular wouldn't have seemed so impressive if more people had seen the work of the European demo programmers on the A8, for example.It does. People are constantly saying there's nothing beyond 1983 or 1984 and they're completely overshadowing the European era. Antic or ANALOG didn't give a damn about Europe either and I always found those columns about the good old days pathetic. This led to zero renewed interest in the A8 line. At least they could've tried... See my point? -
They had to be modified to run from the XE cartridges, though, and it's possible that this might have somehow changed their memory requirements. I've got Lode Runner and David's Midnight Magic on cartridge but have only tried them on the XEGS; I'll have to try them on my 800 the next time I have it set up.
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$19.29 total for one of those Atari Advantage 2600/7800/XEGS posters?! You can get those bundled with a new 7800 game for less than that!
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Do you mean a CX-10 or a CX-40? The CX-10 is the original 1977 controller, and from what I understand it's pretty hard to find. The CX-40 was the later model and can still be commonly found at a good price.
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True, but how many FB3 customers are going to be familiar with them? Given the choice between using the XL/XE OS for the sake of a few obscure games or using the 800 OS for the sake of several more familiar/marketable games and the four-joystick option, I figure the 800 OS is the best choice for the FB3 (which is, after all, going to be a game machine first and foremost). Opinions can differ, of course, although I'm not sure how that argument relates to the A8's longevity in North America.
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Yes, Curt all but said so much earlier in this thread (see my quotation a page or so back).So is there confirmation that the FB3 will NOT be a 2600 platform?
No, the XEGS was the last incarnation of the 400/800 (a repackaged 65XE, actually), and as such it had a 400/800 cartridge port instead of a 2600 port. I'd actually like to see an 800 clone (with 64K RAM) instead of an XL/XE clone, because the 800 will give you four joystick ports and maximum compatibilty with old games. The XL/XE operating system adds compatibility problems and doesn't include anything that would be useful to the FB3....hmmm. The XEGS idea sounds good, but isn't that still giving us a 2600 cart port? I'd go for that idea.I'd love to know myself.
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You're right, that's an overstatement. I've heard that the Flashback line accounted for a significant portion of their income, while sales of many of their games for modern consoles were underwhelming.
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Well, I don't see "a silky-smooth clone of Sonic the Hedgehog featuring the yellow jaguar from the Atari Jaguar ads" on the list, so I'll vote for Dactyl Joust.
Oh, wait, that's not there either ...
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Heh ... maybe he'd merge it with uWink and try to make Atari the game development arm of the uWink Media Bistro like he wanted to make Sente the game development arm of Pizza Time Theater.
Seriously, though, I agree with mos6507. The original, pre-Warner Atari was a very unique mix of personalities and technologies that came along at just the right time, and created a lot of the momentum that the company later lived on. The 2600 was Atari's one true success in the console market, and the combination of coin-op (where new ideas were developed) and consumer (where they were mass-marketed) made for an incredibly successful game-making machine that was effectively destroyed once the two departments were broken up after the Tramiel acquisition.
I've heard some of the Atari alumni talk about how they tried to get back together again and recreate the magic among themselves, at Sente and at other places. Even they didn't succeed, so I don't know if it's even possible to reassemble ALL of the ingredients that made the early Atari successful in today's world. Even if Infogrames wanted to, how would they do it? Having said that, though, I think Infogrames' Atari is doing the right thing by recognizing the value of their library of properties and creating a place for them in today's market with the game compilations and the Flashbacks. The fact that they are about the only product that is making the company any money speaks volumes about how unique and valuable those properties really are.
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I like that idea! They might want to do something about the colors and the joystick connectors (straighten them and maybe move them to the front), but the basic design with its angled cartridge slot is very nice-looking and would scale well to a 2/3 size like the FB2.
Now that I've looked at some pictures of the 400 for the first time in a long time, I think that design would scale well too. It's a very simple and clean design that would allow for an integrated keyboard, and it would look great sitting next to the other Flashbacks.
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The case doesn't matter too much to me; whether it's a 5200 case or a 400/800 case, it should be a 400/800 internally. A membrane keyboard would be a very nice addition (and would be a feature that the competition doesn't have), but as you say, it all depends on cost.
EDIT: Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing a cool new case design, either. In fact, it would be REALLY cool if Atari could bring in Regan Cheng or someone else from the old Atari's Industrial Design group to put one together for them, as someone else suggested earlier. That might help to give it a "retro" look that is consistent with Atari's other hardware but designed specifically for a next-generation TV-game console.
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It's not the 5200 that they're resurrecting (at least I hope it isn't), but the Atari 400/800 computer series. The 400/800 might not be as recognizable to nearly as many as the 2600, but enough of the games are recognizable to make the FB3 a success, if indeed they're going in the direction I think they are. Think of an Atari equivalent of the C64 15-in-1 stick (which was very successful), in a console form factor and with the ability to plug in new cartridges, and you'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm predicting.
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These aren't exactly valid options because a 2600/5200/7800 hybrid is highly unrealistic (and bordering on impossible) for reasons I tried to explain in this post in the main FB3 thread. I'm still pulling for a 400/800 clone with its incredible library of games, and with the best 5200 games ported over to it. Based on some clues that Curt has dropped, I don't see how it could be anything else (although there's no way to tell until we actually see it).
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What are your Top 25 Favorite 7800 Games?
in Atari 7800
Posted · Edited by jaybird3rd
Wow, I think 25 games is something like a third of the 7800's library! Here's my loosely-ordered, ibid-free list:
Ms. Pac-Man
Asteroids
Joust
Ballblazer
Commando
KLAX
Robotron 2084
Dig Dug
Galaga
Centipede
Scrapyard Dog
Xevious
Pole Position II
Food Fight
Ninja Golf (just because it was so weird)
Dark Chambers
Tower Toppler
Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (as long as I'm wearing earplugs)
Desert Falcon
Meltdown
Summer Games and Winter Games
Planet Smashers
Jinks (ONLY because it's a great source of RAM-enabled '565 cartridge PCBs)
I hope to add Combat 1990 to this list very soon (I'm sure it'll be close to the top!)