jaybird3rd

That information probably needs to go into the AtariAge database at some point. I just did a quick search, and found that the programmers of Vanguard, Ms. Pac-Man, and Jr. Pac-Man (three of my favorites from GCC's 2600 list) are uncredited.

Thanks for that information; I'll certainly give it a try! I know that a serial EEPROM would be a much better solution, and I might yet decide to use one depending on how this goes, but my primary concern with going that route (aside for the time and expense of adding one to the '565) was emulator support. I'm guessing that using battery-backed RAM would work within an emulator because support for the RAM is already there, whereas adding an EEPROM might introduce compatibility issues. I'd like to build one program that will work within 7800 emulators and with any stock 7800 console, which is why I'd like to avoid requiring extra hardware (a MemCard, a joystick-based interface, etc.) if at all possible.

Thanks for posting that list! I hadn't seen some of those names before and it's nice to see them get the credit they deserve; everyone says 2600 Ms. Pac-Man is one of the best ports of Ms. Pac-Man but nobody ever knows the names of the developers (until now!)

I can answer your first question at least. Ms. Pac-Man for the 2600 was developed by a Boston company called General Computer Corporation, which also developed several other home console and computer titles for Atari in the mid-1980s (as well as the Atari 7800 ProSystem). Incidentally, GCC also developed a modification kit for the original Pac-Man, which was bought by Namco and eventually became the Ms. Pac-Man coin-op.

That could very well be true; I don't know. I figured they disassembled the games and worked off of whatever code they got from that.

It's missing a few extra address lines in the CPU, the clock and read/write lines in the cartridge slot, and a couple of sprites.

Unfortunately I missed out on getting a HSC, or else I probably would use it. I won't be ready to begin thinking about my "game save" routine (it's actually a save option for a level editor), either for an EEPROM or for a battery-backed RAM, until I actually have a game running. Since this is only my first attempt at coding for the 7800, and since I've only just started it, it may take a while. In the meantime, I'd love to try to add a battery to my '565 if you wouldn't mind sharing the procedure with me.

I'm sure they must be doing something like that, because sprite handling (or at least the paddle's simulation of it) is really close. Another thing that I'm sure was helpful is that, since the NOAC chipset contains a 6502-compatible processor, they were able to run at least some of the original game code on the 2600 titles and on the 6502-based Arcade Warlords (Pong of course had no game code). I'd love to see the developers of the new series of Intellivision TV-game units take similar care in porting the original games over, but since the Intellivision was a much different piece of hardware (built around a ~895KHz CP1610), I'm sure it would be a more complicated process. Anything would be better than the handhelds they've got out now, though.

I don't know if they're still being made, but I can tell you that my local Wal-Mart here in northeast Alabama still has a toy aisle full of them (the one-player model, anyway) for $15. I bought the last two-player model that my local KBToys had for $27. If they're getting scarce elsewhere, I might have to buy one or two extras before they all run out! Speaking of one-player vs. two-player models, I opened up my one-player unit the other night and discovered some jumpers and a few contacts on the board that I believe can be used to add another paddle, changing the one-player unit into a two-player unit. I'll give it a try on mine over the weekend (if I find the time) and will report my findings.

Thanks for posting this review! I have to say that I agree 100%. Within minutes of plugging in my Jakks paddle for the first time, I was convinced that the developers worked closely off of the original source code. Looking closely at the 2600 titles, I was blown away by the fact that the interesting little quirks that we all recognize (the HMOVE lines, the glitches in the players' movements in Circus Atari, etc.) have been PERFECTLY reproduced. It makes me believe that some sort of emulation is being used; I can't imagine how they could have gotten so close otherwise. As carpecarne points out, the graphics, the colors, and the visual effects are dead-on accurate. The sounds are a little bit off, but I've been playing these games for years and the minor inaccuracies didn't bother me at all. I was especially impressed by Arcade Warlords and Arcade Pong. I've only played Arcade Warlords in MAME, but from what I can tell, the version built into this paddle is a perfect recreation of the coin-op; the graphics and sound are just outstanding, and playing an authentic game of Warlords on a real set of paddles (even if you're limited to one or two human players) is enough to justify the purchase price. I do have some experience with the Atari Pong coin-op (I own one, in fact), and this version is the best simulation I've seen since the one included with the Atari Arcade Hits compilation for the PC. They even got the controller design right, in my opinion: the main controller (containing the batteries and the game logic) is bulkier than an Atari paddle, but it's comfortable to use and provides even smoother control than the original (no jitter here!) The two-player version (pictured above) includes a second paddle that is hardwired into the base unit, and it is an almost-perfect replica of the original. It's a fraction of an inch shorter, and the button is a little more square and feels a little different than the original button, but veteran players will feel right at home with it. One of the things that has always puzzled me about the glut of TV games is that, even though the NOAC chipsets they use are theoretically capable of smooth and polished games, most of the games on the market are choppy and sloppy and have an almost unfinished feel to them. I have always suspected lazy and inept programming, and after my experiences with the Jakks paddle, my suspicions have been confirmed. The software in the Jakks paddle was developed by Digital Eclipse, and their expertise in emulator development is clearly evident by the outstanding quality of the games. They have demonstrated what this hardware is capable of in the hands of skilled developers, and manufacturers of inferior products (cough ... Intellivision 10-in-1 ... cough) no longer have any excuse. Overall, I'd give this unit an 8.5 out of 10. It still ranks slightly below the Atari Flashback 2, simply because it does not contain the original hardware, but it does rank higher than the Flashback 1 and above every other NOAC-based offering on the market. I've seen them on sale for as low as $15 for the single-player version and $27 for the two-player version, and I highly recommend them both.

Tomorrow is Friday the 13th, too, so I'm expecting big news any minute now! Go Team Savage!

Interesting ... I hadn't heard of these before. Can they be added to any of Atari's PCBs (I suspect not), or would a new board have to be developed to support it? I'd like to do this "on the cheap" as much as possible, which is why I thought of simply adding a battery to the RAM I've already got on the '565. I know that Harry's monitor cart had a battery backup, but that might have been something different.

Forgive me if my ignorance of electronics is showing here, but is it possible to add a battery to an existing cartridge PCB (preferrably the C300565) so that the contents of its onboard RAM are not lost while the power is off? I'd like to add a "save game" feature to a project that I have in mind.

Wow, I think 25 games is something like a third of the 7800's library! Here's my loosely-ordered, ibid-free list: Ms. Pac-Man Asteroids Joust Ballblazer Commando KLAX Robotron 2084 Dig Dug Galaga Centipede Scrapyard Dog Xevious Pole Position II Food Fight Ninja Golf (just because it was so weird) Dark Chambers Tower Toppler Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. (as long as I'm wearing earplugs) Desert Falcon Meltdown Summer Games and Winter Games Planet Smashers Jinks (ONLY because it's a great source of RAM-enabled '565 cartridge PCBs) I hope to add Combat 1990 to this list very soon (I'm sure it'll be close to the top!)

It still seems a little strange to me that the same button could be broken on two different joysticks, but I suppose stranger things have happened. Are you certain you've tried both joysticks in both controller ports? Does the right button work on 2600 games, or 7800 games, or both (you started out the thread by saying that it was the right button that was broken, but now it works fine ...)? If indeed the joysticks are broken, you'll either have to replace the cable or one of the dome switches inside the controller. I couldn't tell you which without more troubleshooting (and much more specific information on what is happening). Most 7800 consoles seem to sell for anywhere between $20 and $40 depending on what condition they are in and how many games are included.

So, the left button does not seem to work with either 2600 or 7800 games. What about the right button? Is it working with 2600 games, or is it only broken in 7800 mode? It sounds to me like you've got some bad joysticks.

You said earlier that the right button wasn't working. Is this the case for both 2600 and 7800 games? Also, does the left button work with 7800 games? Make sure you test with a 7800 game that uses both buttons independently (Asteroids, Xevious, etc.) A potentiometer is the "dial" inside of Atari paddle controllers. The inputs used for these are also used by the 7800 controller buttons (in two-button mode). See my earlier post for a clarification about what needs to be fixed.

Both of the action buttons on a working Atari 7800 controller should work independently in two-button 7800 games and should also "map" to the CX-40's single action button on single-button 7800 games (and on all 2600 games). This is possible because both buttons are wired together to the 2600 trigger input, but are also wired seperately to the two potentiometer (paddle) inputs. To diagnose the problem, this is the first thing I would try: plug in a 2600 game and see if both buttons on the 7800 controller work. If they do not, it is almost certainly a mechanical problem with the controller or a bad joystick cable. If both buttons work in 2600 mode but only one works in 7800 mode, it could be either a controller problem (a bad cable or a bad resistor) or a problem with the port itself. To test the port, try a two-player 2600 paddle game (if you have a set of working paddles) and see if both paddles work. If neither do, it's a problem with the power pin, and if only one of them does, it's a problem with the potentiometer inputs. If they both work, you'll probably need to replace either your joystick cable (more likely) or one of the resistors inside the joystick.

And I'm not sure why you keep coming back and piling on even after you said you were done with it. I think I agree with ZB's idea: a padded room with a new long-sleeved overcoat.

Looks good so far! And I'd be willing to bet you've done more work on the label than anyone has done on the game (aside for those glorious design documents, of course!)

I just picked one up too. I already own a silver/black unit but have been looking for a beige one for games. Thanks for such a great deal! I've still got my "Read This First" and "Beginner's BASIC Card," too, so you don't need to bundle them with mine either.

That's a good possibility. I'd love to know what was involved in getting these disk-based games running from the cartridge to begin with. I noticed on the Lode Runner cartridge's title screen that Atari added a developer credit for Chuck Peavey, which makes me think that the game required extensive reworking to run from the cartridge (understandable since it originally loaded new levels from the disk). However, other games (like Archon) don't seem to have been changed much at all. Did Atari have access to the original source code for these games, or did they have to reverse-engineer them? When I have time to do more A8 programming, I might want to try my hand at converting disk-based games to cartridge myself. I wish Atari had released more disk-to-cartridge conversions; I've always liked dedicated cartridges better than disks or multi-carts.

True, you could put the translator code and the game code together and go with the Xl/XE OS. That doesn't resolve the four-controller issue, though. Of course, any speculation about the FB3 is kind of ridiculous at this point. We don't know for sure what Atari's plans for the FB3 are and won't find out until they're ready to reveal them and surprise us. I just enjoy getting excited about and speculating about an upcoming Atari console again; it's been a long time.

The dirty Q-Tips soaked with rubbing alcohol that are left over after you're done cleaning the card-edge connector inside your NES cartridges. Either that or the dust that flies back in your face after you blow into the cartridge slot.

These points, and the points jbanes has brought up, are some of the reasons I'm so excited about the new line of Flashbacks, and in particular the forthcoming FB3. Atari does need to be creative and innovative and in the business of developing new game ideas again, instead of doing what everyone else does and recycling their existing library of classics in either emulation packs or Hasbro-style 3D "remakes." The problem is that, with the way that the modern console and computer market has evolved, it is very difficult to make money being too creative because game development is too expensive to waste on far-out ideas that might not pan out. That's where the FB3 comes in. Developing games on the FB3 is going to be a lot cheaper because they'll be the work of one person or of a small group of people, and because they can be developed on a small budget, Atari will be able to sell them at competitive prices and still make a decent profit. If a new idea doesn't work out, they haven't lost very much, and if it does work out, they've got a hit. This is the same economic model that existed back in the 80s, but the new TV-game market that's opened up in recent years makes it possible in today's world. If Atari chooses the Atari 400/800 as the foundation of the FB3 as I think they will, they'll have a platform that offers all kinds of potential for future development (along with a gigantic collection of launch titles). It won't be like the old Atari was, obviously, but if they do it right, Infogrames' Atari could make it work for them.