sack-c0s
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Posts posted by sack-c0s
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yup... hard used "original" sids... that why a lot of the tunes sound so bad and out of tune (check esp. veronika or joyride demos)sack, have you checked the new atari SID "softsynth" demos somewhere on the forums here?
yeah - I was very impressed by them - musically great, but I'm not certain about the practicality of using them in demos.
all good stuff though
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Anyone know what the ZX spectrum demos were like? I'd like to know how my demo would've compared if I'd finished it on time...
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Aren't most of the hard tunes modifications of the original C64 playroutines?
In which case I'll have to admit defeat on this one because that's Drax original songdata note perfect
Seriously though - I think my bassline sounds a bit rough compared to the HARD version.
Oh well - with the mass of good atari tunes out there it's a tough job getting through them all to see which ones have and haven't been covered - but I try and keep it original.
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wierd isn't it? I haven't seen any cool tunes posted here for a while then I check up today to find 2 f'kin *awesome* tunes waiting for me
nice one
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That is really damn nice - I like it.
sadly I've had a serious case of real life and have been working like hell to get ready for a job interview (Tomorrow) so sadly 8-bit things like the forever compo and RMT have had to take a backseat. I wanted to have something done for the Atari and spectrum - but time ran out for me.
oh well... I'll pick up the pace again in a couple of days when this is over and done with
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sounding pretty good (little scratchy under emulation, but I'm assuming like all sound stuff it sounds much better on the hardware)
what are the tech details of this? how much rastertime are you using to do this?
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as far as framerate is concerned in the 8/16-bit era it was pretty much customary to run at full refresh rate, so they'd both run at 60hz NTSC or 50hz PAL.
That's the refresh rate, which isn't the same.
Frame rate is how many diffrent frames are actually put up during that timespan.
And when you get too much onscreen the frame rate drops. On any system.
Console games tend to express this as slowdown, pulling the game down to get all the frames in. PC games tend to start skipping frames to keep the gameplay moving at full-speed.
Haven't really noticed any framedropping on 8/16-bit games though - generally if a game frame takes more than a video frame they cut back on enemies/bullets/objects so it fits again, so still running at the full refresh rate.
so framerate is constant - it's the amount of objects that changes depending on machine power
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if we most do this...
The sega has the faster CPU and a Z80 dedicated to driving the sound hardware, whilst the SNES has the slower 65816 and a custom SPC for controlling the ound hardware.
however - the graphics hardware on the SNES seems (but i can't swear to this as gosepel truth) to produce higher reoslutions, more colours and more overlay layers. it also has rotating/scalling effects and a few DMA tricks up its sleeve which take the load off the cpu, so although it's a slower chip it's well supported by the custom chip.
the sound chip has more channels and is capable of a few DSP effects like reverb, although from a homebrew point of view is a bitch to code for.
as far as framerate is concerned in the 8/16-bit era it was pretty much customary to run at full refresh rate, so they'd both run at 60hz NTSC or 50hz PAL.
Even ignoring the games I'd pick the SNES/super famicom over the genesis/megadrive.
factor in games and the sega doesn't have a chance.
on the 8-bit front the master system does bury the NES in a hole technically speaking though.
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after a bit of a drunken fumble (ooh-err) I think I've found a compromise between crappy bassnotes and crappy high notes.
Initially I was playing with the 15khz option to get standard notes (distortion A) low enough to be useful as bass notes. fine, added an arpeggio. fine. then comes a backing line. sounds alright compared to the original MP3 I was working from.
but the lead was a pain in the ass.
So I tried converting to stereo, and putting the higher pitch on the right hand chip (with it's own 15khz turned off), added some extra channels to fatten everything up and not leave the lead channel sounding lonely.
And I think it's a pretty decent compromise actually. just next time I'll try it with something that isn't phillip glass (although to be fair Rob Hubbard did actually make it sound pretty damn good for Delta).
now to try and do something decent with it...
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yeah - I actually had it on the Commodore 16. was never any good at it though...
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i've finally had enough of emkay, how good's the ignore on this board...?who said that?
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Don't forget an Atari-style OS. One of the first true device-oriented operating systems.i'd have to agree there on the basis the 64 barely even *has* an OS:)
but if I wanted a cool OS I'd have to go with the Acorn/BBC OS (i love the idea of having an assembler in the basic), but for enough OS to be comfortable, and to be banked out when not needed I think the Atari one would do better.
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I accidentally started world war 3 on a C64 IRC channel with this suggestion, but stay with me on this one..
If I had to choose the perfect 8-bit machine to code for off the top of my head it would pretty much be a C64/Atari 8-bit hybrid, pretty much a 50/50 split, with the odd bit taken from elsewhere. I'd have to ask for:
* Z80 CPU (clocked to around 4mhz to bring it up to around the same theoretical speed as a 2mhz 6502)
* 6581 SID (But with more controllable filters if you please)
* VIC-II style sprites, with c64 style bitmap modes with the A8 Colour Depth (not sure of how that'd work from a technical standpoint as each attribute block would then be 32 bits)
* A8-style Display lists (Giving DLIs, mode changes and address control like the A8 has)
* NES/Gameboy style scrolling (wrapping screen memory, meaning only new data need be shifted). again not sure how you could have display lists AND this. only really needed on the X axis, as the Y axis could be handled in display list construction
* STA WSYNC is a godsend, that would be needed
* Acorn/BBC speed disk drives
at the end of the day I do like the A8 and the 64 for their little quirks and differences.
although I am growing to hate the sinclair spectrum right now...
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SID is better than the POKEY...for music. For game sounds, the POKEY's four channels with identical capabilities is a clear winner.
Three channels with filters, a large selection of waveforms and the option of ring modulation versus four channels... i stand by my original statement. =-)
and the SID being able to actually *hit* a note at 10 paces goes down nicely too
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sack, what's your opinion as c64 guy? native or PC?
Purists will disagree with me, but I prefer PC all the way. even on the C64 side of things I use GoatTracker under windows (which is a nice editor, pretty accurate given that more time has been invested in accurate SID emulation than its Atari counterpart, but the RMT editor layout blows it away in terms of ease of use).
I'd like to see RMT continue, but possibly with a little native-side tool for making the odd tweak so you can get the bulk of the work done under windows and optimise slightly on the hardware itself.
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And...how would you suppress badlines on c64?? Sounds really freaky. And IF it would be so, then there's no way to use a new coloring scheme for every 8-rasterline-block.simply avoid the condition where the video chip issues a badline...
Off course, I understand, just like generating badline every scanline it should be possible to turn them completely off (I'm not sure about that), but:
then the colorcells are not refreshed every charmode row. That is: every row has the same coloring scheme. Off course, like you said about that c64 demo, you can accept that, just to make some funky vertical colorbars, but now we're not talking about gfx enhancement anymore.
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mux
If you turn them off by making sure the 3-bit scroll register never matches the raster line numbers lowest 3 bits the hardware will finish up drawing the current cells and then do nothing until it reaches another match. this is how FLD (Flexible Line Distance) effects work.
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Whilst we're discussing RMT. I've been playing with this tune (A By-ear conversion of a tune from the c64 by prosonix).
The tune really does need the high notes - it's not up to much without them - but the pokey sounds like (for want of a better explaination) it's screaming it's balls off.
I've heard other tunes hit notes in around the same range and do a damn good job of it. can someone shed any light on this?
Attached is what I have so far
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so far as instruments go I pretty much use stock instruments from the RMT instruments directory. I just make a few changes like changing the volume envelope from being 'full volume from the start' to '1 frame of near silence and then full volume from then onwards' to make the bass notes more defined. Arpeggios are the only other thing (037/047 for major/minor chords, 07c for something approximating 'power chords', 0c for a 'chime' type sound)....
but it's pretty much what comes with RMT for me.
It was a quality game though, although I had the Archimedes version...
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Okay, I've tested it on real PAL hardware this afternoon.There's still some kind of colorbug in the scrollbar area, and there seems to be an asynchronity in the music. Percussion is a little retarded (esp. at the start of the song).
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mux
Yeah - i noticed that on the emulator too. I'm using waveform mixing to get the 16-bit bassline and drums onto one channel (sounds better than using standard 8-bit bass and having a channel for drums). it sounds fine in the editor and the .sap file, but it sounds a lot more obvious on the emulator (and presumably the real thing too) to the point of making the bass notes sound late. it also sounds tuned down for some reason.
I'll have a play with the tune and the RMT playback code to see what it is, but I think this is my bad
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I really like that tune ...keep going ..make some moresamurai/taquart
What, like this quick one I tossed off (from the old epic shooter Tyrian)?
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That is really bloody nice I must say. nice use of stereo there!
makes me jealous - one of hubbards best tunes (in my opinion anyhow) and it's not even on the C64
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Some statements:What I love the most from this Demo is the music. It is unique in Sounding. And if you like it or not is depending on your tastes in music. And .... ofcourse ... it IS Music .... contrary to almost 80% of the SAP archive.
So what you're basically saying is that what you create is music if we like it or not, but what everyone else creates only constitutes music if you like it?
That's a lot of sway for one person, don't you think?
The Track is able to rebuild the feeling that a Nagzul is a horrible Enemy that wants your live. This effect is not possible with a track that is done like Rob Hubbard's "One man and his Droid"
Musicians with their own style and taste in music can every time create songs they like with this technique. To show this possibility is the main cause for this Demo.
no. what you're showcasing is your particular 'style' and at the end of that day that's all it is - not right, not wrong, just your own personal style. you can't keep claiming to be open-minded about music, then constantly keep ramming your own particular preference down everyones throat claiming everyone else is wrong.
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sack, which of your tunes are freely usable in productions???as my lovely TQA musicians, xray f.e., uses MPT tracker but on 7800 i just can use RMTs...
You can use any of the tunes which are out there in circulation that I've done really so long as you find one you like
If there's a .sap file of mine and there's no matching .rmt file then drop us a line and I'll dig it out.
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@SackNow that I listened to the original Boysetsfire song (It's not bad, but a little to slow
)Yeah - to be honest it's a much better when you hear it live, the recorded version is pretty good but it just seems to be missing something... Can't quite figure out what though.
Actually for something a bit quicker maybe 'Rookie' would've worked better. I'll give that a try sometime.
Do you think it is possible to create the lead in of the song like in the original.... then build a slide to the verse part(with "my" 16Bit) and back.
Because the refrain/verse part... has the flair the o. Song...but in another way. It's more techno than rock
, but to hear "real" good songs via POKEY is rare . I am impressed on the "proper" tuned notes of the main voice though. I would say the potential for a really great POKEY Song is given.
What's your opinion?
I'll have an experiement with it - the bit that was giving me the trouble was the pre-chorus part and the chorus itself. The verse worked out well and the ending part sounded okay. I haven't actually tried to build the intro yet.
But it could be good I reckon if done carefully.
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Missing tune
in Atari 8-Bit Computers
Posted
I think even martin Galway struggled to get that one up standard on the C64 - but it's a damn nice tune (and his conversion is pretty good as it happens). I'd like to see how it works out on the pokey though.
Currently listening to Rasmus - In the Shadows and pondering a cover of that...