andym00

I recall the stupid priority problem, but I don't believe they apply here with hires sprites.. Maybe I'm wrong, it's been a long long time... And anyway, even if it wasn't correct the colour data doesn't matter in the hidden sprite because you'll never see it, because it's covered by the foreground.. You only put bit patterns into the masking sprite (just a simple lookup table to translate as you copy bitmap data into sprite, or even have a mask for it if memory allows) that will remain hidden because the colour information doesn't matter because you will never see it, only the fact that it has a pixel there that isn't transparent is what matters.. But anyway, in hires sprites I didn't think this was a problem.. I never tried it with multicolour screens, only with hires stuff, and maybe I'm a bit rusty on how it works now.. I should go check really, just for my own sanity... And on the A8, if you only used two players for the LN, then you could use in expanded one underneath to mask with, since the foreground is lores anyway.. But I'm not properly familiar with A8s player setup, so maybe it's not feasible..

Really now.. You're just saying things now in the hope that no-one will contradict you because they're tired of you, well think again.. Sorry to quote Rybags on this, but... So all of your exact pixels are contained within those 33 cycles on an A8 badline ??? You're 100% sure about this ??? Well, that's some pretty damn tiny screen you must have then... That's not even to broach the old subject of 'yes, we can do that too!!' regards getting synced up nicely.. So you burn some cycles wasting with your WSYNC, and (what a surprise) so do we burn a few cycles syncing up.. I mean really, surely you should be counting your cycles and not even relying on WSYNC that like real VCS programmers do Smacks as just plain lazy, and not pushing the hardware anyway..

Stupid question, but on the A8, can you use the player to player priorities and player to background priorities to cutout automagically the foreground from the player ? I mean on the 64, if you place a higher priority sprite under the background it will cut out the foreground of lower priority sprites in front of the foreground, and display only the background where the 2 sprites overlap.. I've no idea how LN does it for real, but I've always guessed it was like that, since all you have to do is find the overlapping masked objects, and transfer it into a sprite, and since you can just use a single x-expanded hires sprite (since the forground is lo-res anyway) to cover 6 characters worth of width there's very little moving of memory required, and certainly no arsing about with painfully slow masking of sprites.. And secondly, if anyone is seriously considering LN on the A8, I think the way to go is building a display kernel as you construct the screen.. Just write off the entire display cycle-wise, and build a screen of code in memory that changes whatever needs to be changed at exactly the right time, bitmap mode of course.. If you're prepared to burn the screen time entirely that is.. I'm sure you could do a better job than G2F does of this given you have so much more information available to you as you're building the screen.. I don't mean like E***** spectrum screens with rectangles of colour.. I mean that given the angles presented, I think with single cycle adjustments you could pretty much form the basic colour requirements of the screen.. Granted it's going to cost a bit more drawing-wise, but then the A8s CPU is like a Cray-1 compared to the poor wee c64 If you really are considering a proper port of it, then it might be worth tracking down and getting hold of John Wells.. He did a prototype of LN4 for System 3 that never got off the ground, and I know for a fact that he has given the existing code to someone in the 64 world with the intention of completing[1] it.. Your guess is as good as mine as too whether or not that will ever happen, but I just thought I'd mention it.. Anyway... [1] I say completing it, because it only has a single level from LN2 (I think it's LN2 anyway) in it, but it is a new engine, that even allows you too walk in the grass!!!!!

Yup, a stunning example

Firstly, so what do you think a Raster interrupt is synced to then ? Bored cats ? Secondly, what on earth do you think the timer interrupt clock source is from ? Sleepy donkeys ? And we won't even touch on the fact that you've glossed over (some would say wholly misrepresented) the fact that your syncing argument, with regards to you implying useful horizontal changes being made during the display of a single scanline, are applicable in bitmap mode only, not in character mode from what I recall in this thread..

Oops, I meant Jetboot Jack for saving my sanity by finding it Not having a good day, think my brain has melted in this heat

This is the thing I was thinking of.. http://www.atariprotos.com/5200/software/s...re/spitfire.htm Thanks to Rybags Jetboot Jack for saving my sanity edit: Bugger copied the link text, rather than the link, and thank the wrong person

That's the puppy Thank you so much for putting me out of my misery... I do so love the look of that game though Although it's weird.. I looked at AtariProtos, but somehow still managed it miss it.. Guess not enough coffee when I looked..

I'm familiar with Blaster and that's not what I was thinking of.. Perhaps a better way to describe it might be more akin to Ant Attacks blocky style of graphics, but with a first person view.. I will find this thing somehow...

If a hardware trick on Atari or C64 works consistently then it's as good as a feature. If it causes system to become unstable or locks up some machines, I don't consider it worth much. >Untill then i'm off to play with my a1200 enhanced 1tb HD upgraded 256mbyte p/s 256bit cpu with 128 gig of memory sinclair spectrum x 256 (I'm using version 1a at the mo, Sir Clive is working with the 'god' of hardware design , one Mr Miner on creating version 2...and it plays a mean game of SR) Too many acronyms-- what's SR and a1200? A1200 is an Amiga, no idea what game SR is when it's at home.. The only game I recall that fits the bill could be Space Rogue Oh, and PeteD (or should I say JCB ), I like your ideas and too some degree agree with you on Enforcer 2, but I do still think E2 is a lovely bit of code, even though it looks on the surface fairly straight forward given the 64s hardware.. I'd be happily alongside you with doing something like that on the A8s, but the thought of learning the ins and outs of *yet* another 8bit machine fills me with dread, if only from what the missus would say It's good to see you're still alive and have still got the 8bit bug, and are here

The thread in the 8bit programming forum triggered my mind about some '3d' shooter on the 8bit Ataris.. It was presented as a view into the screen with blocky greyscale colours, but was done in some 'voxelesque' style... Quite low resolution, but looked very nice indeed.. It kind of reminded me of Zaxxon, but with a 1st person view of the level.. I can't for the life of me remember the name, and no amount of googling is getting me anywhere today, and searching atariage isn't yielding any results, though I'm sure I heard about it here some years back.. It's annoying, I want to know if it's really as good as my memory is painting it for me... Plus, I'll go mad if I don't remember.. Please save my sanity

I recall there being some space game on the 8bit using some clever voxel(esque) technology... I don't remember its name at all now, or even it it was ever shipped or if I found it on some prototypes site, but it reminded me of something like Zaxxon, but flying into the screen.. Quite blocky, and in grey scales if I recall correctly.. A quick google hasn't turned up anything, but I'll have another hunt again in a bit, I could do with seeing this again myself I really can't remember the name at all, but someone will remember it I'm sure.. I did look chuffing good though... Not voxels as such, but it's the closest thing I can think of...

Great job on that, I think that looks absolutely fecking ace )

I used a 6502 from Commodore 1541 drive to fix a Atari 400 machine. I increased value of C1541 drive. Nope, you increased the value of the A400

Nothing what so ever, apart from watching atariski throw internet cliches (the chewbacca defence, the straw man argument and when all else fails the fanboy suckerpunch) around as he drowns.. It's a popcorn movie, enjoy

Didn't CGA give you a choice of two different (yet equally garish and pathetic looking) CGA screen modes on all PCs? Yes, and those 2 pictures above are your 2 palettes Well there's 2 different intensity palettes available as well.. Palette 0 default background 2 — green 4 — red 6 — brown Palette 0 in high intensity default background 10 — light green 12 — light red 14 — yellow Palette 1 default background 3 — cyan 5 — magenta 7 — white Palette 1 in high intensity default background 11 — light cyan 13 — light magenta 15 — white (high intensity) There was a 3rd palette available as well, achieved by disabling the colour burst as well.. But only showed in colour on RGB monitors, Composite monitors saw it in greyscale as you would expect.. Palette 3 default background 3 — cyan 4 — red 7 — white Palette 3 in high intensity default background 11 — light cyan 12 — light red 15 — white (high intensity) It was possible to swap palettes during the frame.. Not used very often sadly on PC games, but easily achieved with the timers, but California Games used this to good effect and it really doesn't look so bad as you might expect.. Well, almost anyway.. There's also the lovely 160x102 mode as well (created by setting character height to 2 lines then filling the screen with a character the showed background on the left, and foreground on the right), where all colours can be used freely by just updating the attributes.. If you were lucky enough to play games on your CGA card on a composite monitor your eyes usually suffered less than those on their RGBi monitors See the below comparison of the difference you might enjoy What you might see on an RGBi monitor (left hand side) Vs. what you'd see on a composite monitor (right hand side).. In the both the shots above, you can very clearly see where the palette switching is taking place.. Anyway, so so so so so very far off topic right now

Weird, I thought the Olliveti version would be just the CGA DOS version.. But apparently not.. edit:OOps, just saw Jose's post up above..

And the Enhanced IIe used it as well..

That looks remarkably like the PC version I think, it just smells of EGA colours It's not certainly not an Amstrad, which looks like this unfortunately.. And I don't think there were any other 160 resolution versions, only the C64.. edit: Oops, it appears there was an Apple II version, but looks atrocious!

I'd never seen those sites before.. Nice one, thanks

I don't know how it could be "too little, too late" when it was just vaporware. I'd characterize "too little, too late" as developments that made it to marketplace yet were ultimately not as successful as hoped. Perhaps the C128? Perhaps Apple IIgs? Perhaps Atari's 32-bit efforts? I don't see how vaporware can be considered anything but. I said it would probably have been too little too late.. Primarily due to being perceived as a poor mans Amiga, given it's slated price of 200UKP when the Amiga was still going for 400UKP at the time.. Though who knows for sure... Either way, it's not important...

Is there any chance of posting those ? I'm investigating doing a port of a game to the 64, but redone completely in hi-res bitmap mode with sprite overlays and underlays, partly fuelled by this whole discussion in the other thread, and I think Ghosts'n'Goblins could be interesting.. SNES maps would be even betters And then looking at trying some similar on other beginning with the letter A.. Okay, I'm not going to manage 320 resolution except maybe on the 7800, but I'm game So far I've investigated R-Type as an option, and it's looking very very viable to remake the entire thing in 320x200x16 colours utilising every trick in the book Ah.. I've just found the SNES Super Ghouls and Ghosts on vgmaps, but I'd still love it if you could share the NES G'n'G map

Completely agree with you on that, I can't think of anything else they have in common, apart from RF ports (one some models) But as came up earlier, the 64 does have it's own heritage.. Pet, Vic, Max/Ultimax/VC-10), C64, C128, CBM B Series etc.. The real son of 64 would have been the C65, which was probably too little too late (especially in regards to a 4Mhz 4510[1] (based on the 65ec02) cutting it in 1991), but you never know.. Again this machine had a lot of graphics hardware (VIC-III) to back it up.. Good graphics modes, good colors, a dma controller that functioned as a simple blitter, dual SIDs.. Plus it's dual data busses meant parallel data access by CPU and VIC with no contention.. Anyway, it never was to be, and as I said, I'm sure it was too little too late in 1991, especially in the context of the Amiga being around for so long.. But I sure as hell would have loved to program on it.. Anyway, I only mention this for and where the commodore 8bit family should have gone if the plans had worked.. They didn't so I will shut up now.. And yes, I realise there were lots of Atari prototypes that were developed.. The only one that really got my attention was the model (65XEM I think???) that featured AMY in it.. That was an example of Atari thinking ahead (I mean with its original plans to put AMY into a dual 68K machine) and god I love additive synthesis[2].. If they'd produced this and got it into the mainstream who knows where we might have ended up now.. But as usual, the Tramiels fucked it all up by firing the ATG team, and then trying to wedge it into the 65XEM and not getting it working for whatever reasons.. Anyway, no matter which side of the hedge we sit own, or on the fence itself, I think we're united in a loathing of the Tramiels So lets all have a pint and unite in our love affair of all things 8bit [1] So this included a lot of non 6502 instructions and features, like the Z register and 16bit stack pointer (plus relocatable zeropage mode) 16bit inc/dec, plus other niceties.. And it's 25% speed improvement over the regular 6502 due to the microcode optimisations is a nice bonus too.. Page 2 of this doc has a list of the enhancements of the regular 6502 http://archive.6502.org/datasheets/mos_65ce02_mpu.pdf The 4510 was just this, but with two 6526 CIAs on board.. Interestingly, the 4510 designer (Victor Andrade) went on to later design the K7 for AMD [2] This is from someone who owns two Kurzweil 150 FS, plus an Apple IIe just to run the editing software for these beasts And yes, I love my Apple IIe as well And maybe I'm a IIe fanboy as well.. Who knows

You must be colour blind or else.. The whole picture has 15 colours..

Okay, listen now.. VICs Colour Ram fetches do not steal cycles from the CPU.. It happens on the cycles where the CPU couldn't run anyway.. The character matrix fetches steal from the CPU.. 40 character matrix fetches equals the 40 cycles we lose on a badline.. There's an additional 40 colour fetches but these are interleaved with the character matrix fetches that take place, but the CPU pays no penalty for those 40 colour ram fetches.. edit: Check the first timing table.. https://sh.scs-trc.net/vic/vic_article_3.6.htm#3.6.3. the 'c' cycles are what's of interest to you.. Care to explain that more ? I'm curious..