andym00

Okay, seriously apologies for getting you mixed up with someone else regards the EGs.. I just lost track of who said what in here again.. Regards the DACs.. Of course the hardware doesn't change, but the discovery that the output stages will hold the last outputted waveform value for a short period of time once the voice has it's waveforms disabled does make a big difference to what's capable So, it takes for 4 STAs to output a true 8bit sample instead of 1 STA.. Doesn't mean it's to be discounted..

The reason why I prefer the SID is simply that I'm not into music that try to jam an entire 10 piece band into 3 voices and just end up sounding confused, and then needing you to forgive them for trying.. Kind of like (wanky) graphics modes with missing lines and things and flickering and artifacts.. I don't want to have to stand 10ft away and squint to see something that looks like a picture of ALF or something.. I want something that doesn't have to be forgiven because it tries so hard to be something it's not and doesn't quite succeed.. I want to enjoy the sound for what it is without having to forgive its flaws, and for me that's stuff that combines expression and movement within the sounds themselves.. Something I think the SID does better through its frequency control, filter control, pulse width control, resonance and Envelope Generators.. I think when used like that it does a stunning job and providing a complex and highly unique (within computer sound chips) sound experience.. Without having to stand 10ft away and squint your ears

They still sound like SID and sometimes with bad samples Have a look at this thread.... POKEY changes it's face by using different programming techniques. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...&hl=complex I'd say: In sounding variations, POKEY beats all soundchip that were built into early 80s 8 bit computers. Changes its face by using 2 POKEYs you mean Anyway, I'm not here to argue to point of which is better.. Just popped in to set the record straight on 2 (false) points that had been thrown into the arena and left unchallenged.. That's all..

Your repeated claims that the Pokey has ADSR (albeit via software implementations) is utter claptrap.. Of course you can change the level of a voice, but not as rapidly as it's possible with hardware, and since the changing levels of the envelope generator over time produce an amplitude modulation of the source waveform you're potentially creating harmonically more interesting timbres during times of rapid envelope activity.. I mean with it's highest attack rate of 2ms, you're looking at needing a software EG update rate of ~4K just to match that if you want to generate the harmoniclly equivalent high rate change portions, and you know that not happening Either way, that aside, you might as well say that a spectrum has sprites because it can draw them in software.. C'mon man.. Get a grip Anyway, just listen to Jeroen Tels winning SID tune from X2008 for a very good example of how those 'real' EGs make a difference.. http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72564 Plus, there's a lot of other stuff here that I believe that POKEY would have a very hard time with.. My own personal view is that whilst I love a lot of the POKEY stuff, it's very samey to me, and there's not a lot of movement with the sounds themselves.. Just my 0.02Euros worth on this.. Secondly the DAC issue.. Not true at all, at least not now.. A new (and I have to say very novel) technique surfaced which allows 8 bit sample playback on each SID voice.. Plus, with the ability for it to be routed through the (hardware) EGs and through the filters is (I think) one of the biggest break throughs for SID in the last few years.. It's a fairly simple method, and hopefully more and more use of this will, and potentially offers 12bit playback.. There's 2 examples of this method.. First, a straight forward music piece.. http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72563 Secondly the Demo 'Vicious Sid' demonstrating this technique.. Sadly with some Amiga Mods.. http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=72678 I don't think either of these pieces really do the technique justice yet, but I think more will come as people get to grips with the techniques required and good and better support for this technique of sample playback are thought about.. I for one have had my interest in SID rejuvenated by this techinque.. And all kudos to SoundDemon for figuring it out

Regards the 64s hardware collision being all but useless, yeah mostly that's true, but it does have some uses, especially when it comes to generating interrupts from sprite to sprite, or sprite to graphics collisions.. A one pixel sprite being used to generate positional interrupts when it 'collides' were handy sometimes, and were useful when people were fathoming out what the VIC-II was up to under it's borders because you can essentially sample the screen output from it.. Granted the positional stuff can be done other ways, but it's just one of the uses for it and something in it's arsenal for a rainy day And no doubt in the very early days, having the collision detection was useful for people writing stuff in basic and learning the machine without having to overtly worry about how things like collision might work.. I for one used it in my earliest things I wrote when learning the C64 way back in the days.. Granted for a modern game it's toss, but in the first generation of C64 games (the really early ones!) I suspect it saw a lot of use, even with it's flaws

"Pick it up for multiple" - Salamander

http://oxyron-party.untergrund.net/fanta_in_space.mp3

Came across this when looking through the MOS Wiki entry... http://homepage.mac.com/jorgechamorro/a2th...agic/index.html Is this actually feasible ? Reading it seems to make sense to me, and the amount of memory it could potentially shift seems not to be sniffed at.. Clearly it's a bit late for it to be of any practical use on systems, but I'm just curious if this is viable, and if so, why it was never implemented back in the days or even used in some 6502 variant as some built in background-DMA device.. Just curious

Uhuh.. As usual, the repsonse to the grandmaster (perhaps we should just skip the shit and refer to you as Carmack Jr.) is that, you don't have the fucking foggiest what you're talking about.. Well that's my offical diagnoses right now.... Seeing as I can't for the life of me figure out your dmage over this now, perhaps you should stop picking fights with people and actually dispute me with something a little more logical than just name calling. I know....it would be a first but you should try it. You wont come across like an utter jerk. ok.. explain to me how you imagine you would shovel X amount of external data over a 2600 bus and render anything reselmbling a normal display ? I expect cycle count acccute results here.. Really man, you can only go so far before someone calls your bluff..

Uhuh.. As usual, the repsonse to the grandmaster (perhaps we should just skip the shit and refer to you as Carmack Jr.) is that, you don't have the fucking foggiest what you're talking about.. Well that's my offical diagnoses right now....

Congrats Eric

Very nice Can I ask exacrtly which CPLD you've used in there ? I can't quite make out to part number..

I didn't come into the Jaguar world badmouthing anybody or commenting on it as if I co-wrote it.. Absolutely not.. You've read that into it for whatever reasons, and I'd like to suggest we just drop this now, as it's ultimately a fruitless pastime.. Consider the olive branch reciprocated Ditto..

Oh blimey.. You're misreading what I wrote there.. I said "nothing else I've seen", no reference to surrounded there at all.. My first comment way back, clearly was referencing surround.. The latter, in no way referenced surrounded, and that's the one that still hasn't been answered.. It's was an honest question.. What does push the limits on the Jag then ? And no, I don't think you're an idiot.. Quite how you reach that conclusion I have not the foggiest idea.. But I can assure you I don't.. There was no 'shot' at anybody.. I certainly don't think that's the case at all.. You can be as defensive as you want and read what you want into my intentions, but you need to be aware that you've misinterpreted things here.. Look, you can read what you want into it, but one thing, specifically on the Jaguar side of things, was that I worked for MSU/Konix/Flare on various revisions of the Konix which later turned into the TSX Multisystem which mutated into the IBM BaliBox and then eventually became your Atari Jaguar.. I was programming this thing in it's many many various guises for a long time before you ever heard of a Jaguar (by that I mean a good 5 years).. Granted the DSP changed, there was only one back then, the CPU became a 68K instead of a 386sx(and yes before anyone picks holes, there were other cpus as well), the Blitter grew extra registers, but I'd like to think that I'm pretty familiar with the overall architecture as it finally arrived in the Jaguar form.. That's not to say I know it all, I don't, I'll be the first to admit to that, but I think that 25 years of working in the games industry, and the 100+ games which I've worked on over those years does not qualify me as a new-comer..

I read, I commented.. I haven't ignored any facts due to bitterness or jealousy, I simply commented on what I saw before me.. To be quite frank, nothing else I've seen, on the Jag, that supposedly pushes the limits overwhelms me either.. I didn't attack you.. If anything your response is an attack on me.. Anyway, I won't spend any more time looking at the possibility of doing stuff on the Jag since it's like a battlefield here.. I came to the Jag scene hoping to do some fine stuff, but in all honesty it's really not worth the hassle and conflict.. Have fun..

You're welcome

And that's the Jag being pushed to the limit ? Errrrr, okay..... I think I'll toddle back off to the 7800 and see if I can't make it do exactly what I've just seen...

Silly question which I've never thought about before (welll a little bit, but not in this context), but when Maria is reading from anything outside of the internal 4K RAM, does it slow to the CPU clock 1.79Mhz clock for external memory accesses, or does it carry running on at 7.16Mhz ? Just wondering about a little project, and am curious if I can feed Maria directly across the cartridge port from some logic running in a cart, but at full Maria speeds.. Are the CLK (and possibly R/W even though not needed) lines coming out on the cartridge port swapped between the CPU and Maria depending upon who's is currently active ? I always wondered if ROM accesses by Maria were at fullspeed when I was dibbling around with 7800 things before.. I'd try it right now, but I don't have my CC2 with me here to test with.. Hmm, okay reading a bit more, seems I should use the HALT line to distinguish between CPU and Maria Reads ? Okay

A cold hard fact that makes this particular sega drone cry himself to sleep at night. I did say the game sucked. Again my statements are being misinterpreted. Im telling you that a reworked BM or HS engine that runs on the RISCs only, will do a decent version of any of those games. Less polies perhaps but a 30 FPS frame rate. RS is actually using speedier microcode too and the polycounts do look a bit higher than the typical N64 game. They are definitely two of the nicer games for the N64. The microcode also corrects a lot of lighting issues and it really is a nice job by the dev team. They also did a really good job of overcomming the 4k texure ram limits..a big reason all the N64 games textures for the most part are horid ly blurred. RS uses a texture streaming technique which allows cart space to act (kinda) like extra texture ram(its a steaming kind of set up the way the do it.) Kudos to the developers all the way. this is not at all a put down on them. It's not even such on the N64...Im just telling you what I know based on the information easily finable all over the I-net. The Jag wont EVER push as much on the screen but I can be clever and do something similar enough to make you see that for all the technological advances inside the N64 the end result is not all that impressive. It could have competed closer to the DC ( not real close though) if Nintendo allowed the Turbo 3D microcode which would have allowed 300-500,000 polies with a few less effects. That is the code they should have gone with. Why they did this, I'll never know. I think Nintendo may have held this code as an ace in the whole to kick the N64 incase of stiff comp. I think also that blew this idea off realizing that the Cart nature of the N64 was greatly limiting what developers could do and hence went on to the GAME CUBE instead. My guess only. Also, if you look a good deal of the N64 games you will see a lot of sneaky G-shading going on that tends to go unoticed becasue it is done tastfully and in the right places. The reason for this is that the texture buffer is only 4 kilobytes. High color textures eat that up very fast and is why you see all that stretching and blurring. So everyone chill...the N64 is a superior machine but a disappointment in many ways. The Jaguar is 5 years older tech, almost one quarter the system clock, and no tools useful to pull the real power from it remember. You've not sen the best on the Jaguar yet. we'll do out best...hey come on, tell me any of you guys would not like to see a much improved game on the Jaguar? hang tight. We're working on it. Also remember, in the Jaguar, you have full acess to micro code. There is no top layer like in the nintendo. Nice cut'n'paste of the N64 Wiki page there Gorf.. Not doing yourself any favours now.. Plus, as far as I know, you have no access to microcode on the Jag Riscs.. Or is this something else you've discovered that even Atari didn't know about ?

How to get the RISCs to jump successfully when running from main ram when there's other bus activity would be handy.. I have a few ideas, but you've stated in other posts that it doesn't involve the 68k, which was my first guess.. Sharing this info would be very handy..

Who ? Link ?

Very nice... I didn't realise those development disks were out in the wild, makes for some interesting reading indeed...

Ditto for everything djmips says here.. Perforce is the dogs danglies when it comes to source control, and with it being free for 2 users it's quite simply a bargain..

Somehow I've managed to completely overlook the Jagdev forum here.. I've just never ever noticed it before, maybe because I'm blinkered to the 2600 & 7800 forums..

Wow, that really is a busy place.. Now, why didn't my searches find that place..