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skooter

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Posts posted by skooter

  1. Posted

    So is it the Framemeister or your video capture setup that can't maintain a steady frame lock, messing up the interlace effect on Draconian's title screen?

     

    Make sure you are watching in 1080p60.

  2. Posted

    His profiles use integer-based resize.

     

    Which sync problems did you have? And which settings did you use to fix?

     

    Most games I tried here worked with the default sync settings. The exceptions was Tapper and Video Pinball, but I couldn't fix them through the settings.

  3. Posted

    Draconian - 2600RGB + Framemeister again. Now with Firebrandx's profile:

     

     

    Pressure Cooker (2600RGB + Framemeister + Firebrandx's profile):

     

     

    Pole Position (2600RGB + Framemeister + Firebrandx's profile):

     

  4. Posted

     

    Clearly you have no idea what you're actually talking about. Otherwise you'd explain what you mean instead of parroting your little catchphrase over and over. Like, maybe you could explain to us the difference between a 2D pixel and a 3D pixel.

     

    I think the same about you. I never said there were 3D pixels. I said there is difference between 2D graphics and 3D graphics.

     

    2D graphics are better upscaled by just replicating pixels, like OSSC and Framemeister (Picture mode) actually do. At least most people prefer it that way, blocky, not blurry. Emulators actually have specific filters for 2D graphics, "eagle" and "HQ" stuff.

     

    If you apply the same approach for 3D graphics, they don't look good. 3D graphics are better upscaled by interpolating pixels, like TVs actually do. That's why filters for 3D graphics are different.

  5. Posted

    You use different settings for different consoles to get them converted in the first place. Once they're converted, THAT'S DONE.

     

    How are you not grasping this?

     

    Again, not true. Most games up to 4th gen use 2D graphics. They won't look good with the same techniques use for modern 3D graphics. Because content matters.

  6. Posted

    If your statement was true we wouldn't be using different upscaler settings for different consoles.

     

    A DVD movie is also colored pixels on a grid. But we upscale it differently.

     

    Once again, content matters.

  7. Posted

     

    First, I question your premise that blurry output is a bad thing. All commercial 2600 games were designed with the knowledge that they would be viewed via a fuzzy RF connection. They were never sharp. They're not supposed to be sharp.

     

    Second, fine, then have this theoretical 2600 upscaler generate a 1080p signal. There, the 2600 is now in the same boat as every modern gaming console.

     

    If you are happy with RF, there is no point in modding anything at all.

     

    There is people which believes Atari 2600 should be played only on CRTs through RF. I respect that.

     

    But once we are improving the picture to look good on modern display, why the hell we want blurryness? If you want to play on LCD with blurry image, well, RF connections are still available. No mods required.

     

    Regarding the second part. Even if your theoretical 2600 upscaler generates 1080p now, we need higher resolutions for tomorrow and then your upscaler will need an upgrade. Again, it's better if it's out of the box.

     

    Modern gaming consoles may not need a dedicated upscaler since their graphics are completely different and closer to TV content anyway. Again, content matters.

  8. Posted

     

    This right here is where you make the leap into nonsense. Upscaling the signal from an old video game system is tricky, but upscaling a standard HDMI video stream is not. At that point it's just a progressive pixel grid, trivial to scale.

     

    And once again I point out that if this is a problem (it isn't), then by your logic it's a problem with literally every HDMI device ever manufactured.

     

    You are missing the point because you are only considering video format, but video content also matters.

     

    Upscalers built on TV are not good for retrovideogames, no matter if analog or digital.

     

    If you get a 480p DVD movie and put it on a 4K TV, pixels will be interpolated, some bicubic filtering or whatever will be applied. The result will not be great, but it's the best we can have for this kind of content. It's unlikely that any dedicated upscaler will do much better.

     

    But take Atari 2600 and output crisp and sharp digital 480p through HDMI. Now take it to a 4K TV and the graphics will be blurried. You just can't use trivial upscaling methods for retro-videogames.

     

    Anyone with a Framemeister and a 1080p TV can do a simple test: get Atari or any console up to 4th generation. Set framemeister to output 1080p and look at the picture. Now set Framemeister to output 480p and look again. Blurrier, isn't it? That's because the TV is not good to upscale retro-videogames, no matter if the source is analog or digital.

     

    And no, "my logic" doesn't apply to every HDMI device. It only applies to retro-videogames because it's their content that matters.

  9. Posted

    The games you mention (Warlords, Tapper and Video Pinball) have also had issues in Stella in the past, before the emulation was improved. Tapper in particular has a scanline count that alternates between 261 and 262, and using 'jitter' mode in Stella would make that ROM unstable. So we adjusted the jitter code to only take effect if the scanlines change 3 or more. It seems older TVs were lenient with this, so we had to emulate it that way. But I can see how an upscaler would be very confused by this.

     

    Thanks for the info. Now I'm curious: what is the deal with Video Pinball?

     

    We have hacks as workarounds for Warlords and Tapper to work on 2600RGB, but not yet for Video Pinball.

  10. Posted

    By dedicated upscaler I mean something like Framemeister and OSSC which are dedicated for games. They will not try to deinterlace 240p content, and they will multiply the pixels instead of interpolating them.

     

    240p is not Atari 2600 exclusiveness. It is used by every second, third and forth generation consoles AFAIK.

     

    Framemeister has some quirks on Warlords, Tapper and Video Pinball, which are games doing unusual (maybe wrong) stuff with their sync signal? Yes, ok. But Framemeister also fails in Mega Drive 480i mode and has a few other issues.

     

    Like I said, upscalers are not perfect. They evolve. So it's better that they are out of the console box. This has a few advantages:

    1. Multiple consoles served by a single upscaler.
    2. Only one upscaler to upgrade whenever Framemeister 4K or OSSC 2.0 are released.
    3. No need to ever touch the mod again.

    You can make an Atari 2600 mod that has HDMI output? Sure. Let's say you can make a upscaler dedicated for Atari 2600 that address all the issues with weird sync signals, which is already difficult enouth. Then, when 4K or whatever becomes the standard, we will still have the TV incorrectly upscaling the 720p/1080p image. Then what? Either we will have to upgrade the mod, or we will need another upscaler to chain with the internal one.

  11. Posted

    You completely missed the point. It is because it should look blocky that it needs a dedicated upscaler which handles 240p content without attempting to deinterlace. Movies, modern videogames and everything else is upscaled by modern TVs just fine.

  12. Posted

    Digital formats still need upscalers. When you watch a 480p DVD on a 1080p TV, either your Blu-ray Player or your TV are upscaling the picture.

     

    Upscalers for gamers were always niche devices. They always had limited avaibility anyway.

    • Like 1

  13. Posted

    A good reason to NOT put a HDMI output on Atari 2600: HDMI requires upscaling, upscalers evolve. Framemeister and OSSC are good, but not perfect. In some years we will have better upscalers. We don't want a mod that has to be upgraded in a few years. Resolutions increase. TVs suck at upscaling and they probably always will. If we output up to 480p, we are letting the TV do an awful job at upscaling it to 1080p. So, let's output in 1080p? Ok, but 4K is already available. You got the picture...

     

    A good reason to put RGB output on Atari 2600: most of your other consoles have RGB output (Mega Drive, Super Nintendo, Playstation, etc.). It's better (and cheaper) to have a single upscaler to them all. In a few years, I can change only the upscaler and all my consoles will output 4K. No need to ever change the Atari 2600 mod again.

  14. Posted

    From the title screen, it looks like Youtube is recording only every 2nd frame. Maybe enable phosphor.

     

    Make sure Youtube is actually running on 1080p60. Sometimes the "Auto" setting says it is when, in fact, it isn't.

     

    Isn't "phosphor" a Stella setting?

     

    I'm using the PICTURE image mode on Framemeister, which is best suited for progressive sources. I may try the NATURAL image mode to see how it looks.

     

    But first, does Draconian use 480i only on title screen or does it also use it on gameplay?

  16. Posted

    That's a great image! How does Draconian look?

     

    It looks great. I just recorded it. I'm encoding the video now and I'll upload it soon.

     

    It's the first time I played it though, so it won't be a pretty performance. :)

     

     

    You have a minor typo in my name in your blog entry. It also might make sense to show "Tradução/Translation" above the flags, or to show "Translation" while in Português (and "Tradução" while in English).

     

    Sorry about that. Just fixed it. I also reviewed the automatic translation. It was barely readable, now it's ok.

     

    The text above the flags should be fixed soon. I corrected it, but it's probably caching somewhere I can't find.

    • Like 1

  19. Posted

    I was testing a few games and I found out another two that have issues with 2600RGB + Framemeister.

     

    They are:

    - Video Pinball: it crashes on the first screen, unplayable

    - Tapper: playable, but graphical issues everywhere

     

    Tapper is one of my favorite games, I hope there is a fix. :(

  24. Posted

    Thanks, Trebor.

     

    I've applied your method on my S-Video modded Atari 2600, which is on the LCD TV.

     

    Then I left the console off for about an hour and tried the Color Bar Generator again to see if it was right.

     

    I don't think I got it right yet because it took around a minute until the borders matched, and then the bottom one started getting brown. Also, the red looks a little too magenta. I got all this on a video I'll upload later.

     

    Now I'll wait until the console gets cold and try to adjust it again. It's difficult to get it right because it has to be done in only half a minute.

     

    Also, I'll try the same with the unmodded console on the CRT TV tomorrow. I didn't mention it before, but the unmodded one is PAL-M. Perhaps the palette isn't the same?

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