mikey.shake

That Jakks Pacific "Atari 10-in-1" joystick from the early 2000s. The games didn't FEEL right to me. And including paddle games made no sense. But I suppose that thing not quite "cutting it" is what finally pushed me to get a real Atari console... so some good came of it. I was gonna say "Odyssey 2", but it's got a scrappy charm I like despite technical limitations. It succeeds (mostly) in doing what it sets out to do, so I can't hate on it, even if I prefer the Atari library. Oh, and this thread has been most entertaining. Quite bonkers, in fact.

I can only imagine what they'd charge for these if they had end labels. And this is the same "thrift" store where I recently bought a Genesis for $10, with no haggling.

Had fun today knocking out "Double Dragon II: The Revenge" (NES) on Supreme Warrior mode. It took two tries, it was tricky, and I cut it close, but I eventually punched so hard my dead girlfriend came back to life.

I love when threads like this pop up, because even my dumb a$$ can chime in... All the other homebrewers/hackers who have taken a stab at our round yellow friend have done some impressive work. The original was what it was. But there have been some great jobs at improvement and refinement over the years and my hat's off for the good stuff and the generosity of many of the programmers. That said, DINTAR816's Pac-Man 8K... might be my favorite game ever for the Atari VCS/2600. If you haven't tried it yet, and want to play an "Atari VCS" version of the Big P... well, I recommend it.

I kept forgetting to post as I spent 2015 plugging away at defeating the VCS and NES classics I love and never conquered. Mario. Zelda. Metroid. Pitfall. What do I accidentally beat during my first ever "curiosity" play of it on January 1st? You guessed it... Mortal Kombat II for the Sega Master System. Happy New Year, everyone! And happy gaming!

Ah ha! Thanks for this! Now the lack of Safari Hunt might make more sense. If this model was perhaps made to be specifically sold in The Base System set, it makes sense to only include 1 game instead of 2 -- more incentive for people to pony up for the "premium" Master System set, perhaps? And if you're gonna strip one out, dropping the one that requires the not-included light gun is obvious. HoshiChiri -- thanks for the tip! I swiped the composite cable from my unused secondary Model 1 for the time being, and it looks pretty good! However, this weird TV of mine sometimes looks "better" via RF on some older systems -- I may take you up on your offer. I'd like to see if the proper unit makes any kind of minor difference on my set. (I'll PM ya! ) Jibbajaba, glad to hear you finally scratched that itch as well! Yeah, there was something about the system that stuck in my mind all these years -- must have made quite the impression back then. I love the look of the thing, too -- so sleek in its own way, despite all the empty space inside. Oh, and your vids are favorites of Mrs. S and I -- really great, informative stuff. Your two-part Genesis set was excellent! After your recent vid on Shinobi, can we expect a Master System overview anytime soon? Consider this an official request. I'm kind of surprised at the lack of review content for the system considering its place in history, and we all need more quality content out there, right? And Stardust, I hadn't looked into the importing thing or the rarer SMS games until now... and YIKES! Thanks for the heads-up. I'll keep my eyes peeled for European sellers in case I'm looking to get my hands on anything pricey -- in fact, the Sonic games are on my "if I can find them inexpensively enough" list, so I'll be sure to check abroad for those. It's currently 4:16AM, and I'm very seriously considering firing up The Ninja to see what the fuss is about. I've heard good things.

Thanks, everyone! That's good info to know about the smaller sizing of the 3D glasses. Let's just say I have a I have a "generously sized" melon, so the rubber-band route might be the best way for me to go... which is good, if I can get a "broken but fixable" pair for a better deal. And as far as the built-in games go, this DOES have Snail Maze (UP +1+2 on the loading screen), as well as Hang-On. I'm wondering what the tech of 3010-A is, if they only put one official built in game on the 3010-B... did the 3010-A have more games, or less? Again, mine does not have Safari Hunt included in the hardware. For what it's worth, all the documentation I noticed had a copyright date of 1987, and the startup screen says 1988. Despite my existing Mega Everdrive, and the potential picking up of a Master Everdrive for this one (maybe next Black Friday), I'll probably pick up a very select few games for this. I'm going to try and stick to a "boxed only" policy (since I can play the games already, it's really just -ugh- shelf collecting, and I want to be careful). But Mrs. S has tested out Fantasy Zone: The Maze, and I think she's hooked -- so that's on the shortlist. The Zillion games are contenders for my short list, too. Golden Axe Warriors and Golvellious have only come to my attention since researching the catalog, and I can definitely see myself getting into them -- I'm not much of an RPG fan, but I can dig some Zelda-style "action RPGs" when the mood hits. And despite my not being an RPG player, I definitely think it's time to get in on some Phantasy Star. Other than that, it's about getting a handful of the ones I wanted when I was a kid. That means Space Harrier and Shinobi. Oh, and Eltigro, that pic of your kids playing Double Dragon warmed my shrunken, blackened heart. Good for you, and good for them! Interestingly, the box for my system didn't have the UPC cut out... which meant that the previous owner must have just loved "walk left to right and kick some butt" games to have the ones he did. Oh, and for those of you who are interested in circuitry, here are some gut shots from when I opened it up to clean it. Sorry about the shadows, I didn't notice until I'd already put the dang thing back together. It's got an August 5th, 1988 birthday stamp on it. And what a time to finally get one of these... 2016 marks the 30th anniversary of the US release! I may be 30 years late, but they told us the challenge would ALWAYS be there, right? Oh, and Happy New Year, everyone!

I’ve been trying and trying to pull back on game gathering and more on playing, but then Mrs. Shake gasps and when I ask what, she says “Nothing! You don’t want to see...”, and then here I am talking about a new console and the Great Sega Christmas Of 2015. She went wild and got me a Mega Everdrive, a 32x (!) + Model 2 Genesis, and a(nother) Model 1 Genesis for Christmas, along with a couple of cheap ’n’ common boxed games as stocking stuffers. We both have had a blast digging through the Everdrive, and the Master System library has been a really pleasant surprise. We both grew up in the 8-bit era, so we're really enjoying exploring the SMS games that were mostly new to us. She’s become a complete Fantasy Zone addict. Like everybody else, I knew one kid in early grade school who had one, but we usually played Zelda and Super Mario Bros. instead. But from the first time I saw the two-second clip in the commercial, the 3-D, psychedelic tornado of Moai heads from Space Harrier made me long for one of these sleek and advanced machines. So yesterday, I’m sitting on the couch and she does that “gasp" thing next to me. She knows that I’ve wanted to pick up a reasonably-priced, working SMS just for kicks, even though I can now play the games via the Everdrive. But she also knows about my almost pathological devotion to Double Dragon. I’m not very good. I acknowledge that its a fun-but-superficial game with a stack of crappy home versions. But I’ve always loved Double Dragon in a weird "nostalgic fixation" kind of way, and (casually) pick up every version I can if it’s cheap enough. Get a 2600? Buy Double Dragon. Finally set up a Genesis? Buy Double Dragon. Tiger Handhelds? They’re awful, but I got Double Dragon when I was a kid. I don’t have a 7800, but if I find a cheap boxed copy of Double Dragon, I’ll buy it for when I eventually get the system. Not an obsession, but let’s call it a “quirky affinity”. (Because everyone needs a taste of this.) Anyway, Mrs. S shows me a craigslist post for a $75 Sega console (in the “Sega Base System” package) with three boxed games: Black Belt, Rastan, and Double Dragon. I knew that Double Dragon goes for $15-$20. Which sweetens the price of the bundle for me. I know Rastan is a favorite for some people, and while I have no attachment to Black Belt, I clearly love side-scrolling beat-em-ups. So, despite wanting to protest, I don’t stop her from contacting the seller to get it for me as "one last Christmas present". We go to pick it up and it’s missing one controller (mentioned in the listing) but I have a light gun and a loose copy of Safari Hunt to make up for it; and the RF switcher the seller has is an NES one, not the original. But other than that, he’s got the box, the paperwork, the styrofoam, and even the "Sega" f-type converter. He kindly tests it for us, and we round up all the stuff and we’re on our way. It turns out to be cleaner than I’d expected and we set it up and have a blast. Black Belt even included a minty Sega poster that could not be more "of its moment in history", and it even has a game catalog on the back.. "Trippy..." A little reading today taught me that it’s model 3010-B, which has ONLY Hang On built in, rather than Hang On / Safari Hunt. A few places online say this is slightly “more rare”, which is curious to me mostly because I can’t find any concrete info on hardware variants online! Any suggestions on where a hardware junkie can research? [This box (that white part is printed, not a sticker) seems to verify that this console and this box went together originally, since it only says that Hang On is included, which seems to match descriptions of model 3010-B.] Regardless, I really dig it, and while it could never surpass the NES in my heart, it’s a really fun compliment and a great 8-bit system with its own character and personality. The light gun is FANTASTIC, and I’m looking forward to maybe trying a pair of the 3-D glasses. Maybe even picking up a Master Everdrive in a few months so I can play SG-1000 stuff, too... Any Boston-area gamers care to shed some light? I'm not from around here... I guess Santa got held up back in ’88-’89, because boy-oh-boy did some Sega dreams come true this year.

For sure... Warlords, Kaboom, Astroblast, Circus Atari, and a few others are essentials for me, as they're paddle games. And there's nothing quite like them. I'd definitely encourage trying some of those out. (Pong Sports and Breakout are lots of fun, but I feel like they only scratch the surface of the paddle games.)

I like six switches and wood grain, but my secondary Atari setup is a Jr (for space and looks). The two Jrs I own have given me zero trouble. As long as you're a little bit gentle with the thin aging plastic and they're in good shape... you should be fine? Your mileage may vary. I like having physical carts. They're neat talismans of a bygone age, historical artifacts that can be not only appreciated for their aesthetics (beautiful art, vintage styling), but the fact that you can interact with them. And in much the same way it was intended. It's almost like a technological time capsule -- even today, a VCS/2600 and a CRT television should give you the same experience as gamers back in the day had. That said about philosophy, I'd echo what everyone else says about technology -- get a Harmony Cart and make sure your hardware is up to snuff. Spend time getting some controllers you really like (paddles, too -- they're some of the best games on the system). Then have fun being picky and going on the hunt and building up an immaculate collection of whatever kind of carts it is that you want. And some of my favorite games for the system have proven to be homebrews like Medieval Mayhem and the amazing Pac-Man 8K, games which make a Harmony Cart that much more essential. Have fun and don't let anyone else tell you what you like playing! Get what makes you happy, and don't get caught up so much in "collecting" that you forget that these are games, and meant to be played and enjoyed. It's easy to do. But why spend time stalking eBay when you could be playing Kaboom?

Except for the Atari 2600 modern 3rd party power supplies I use, I've had a similar experience -- every aftermarket one I purchased brought only regret and fuzzy picture. Every time, I'd go out and buy a real-deal OEM, original-issue power supply and all the picture problems were a thing of the past. It tought me to just suck it up and pay a few extra bucks and get the real thing when I need one. In my town, they tend to run about $8-$10 (used, obviously), and it's worth every penny. Other than that? I've got an email in my phone of which consoles I have, and the Volts/Amps/Polarity for each, in case I come across one in a pile somewhere. Just in case. So when I hit the table of loose power supplies at the flea market, if I need one, I know what I'm looking for.

Nifty, thank you for clearing that up! I've done some more digging, and it seems mine is a 6.5, because it's got the through-hole CXA1145 video encoder (as opposed to the surface-mount) but also has the "sealed-over" back spot where the EXT port used to be and no "HDG" logo. That clip of yours certainly sounds good, and sounds nothing like the VA7s and early M2s I've heard! I hear the VA7 *is* good for modding, but with the three others I've got (and the VA4 Model 2 I found the other day for a pittance -- I looked for the "punch out" holes in the 3/4 motherboard), I'm probably not in the market. And if I'm correct, I get to strap a 32X to one of them on Christmas morning...

I've got one. I LOVE it. It not only plays as good as a Heavy Sixer should, but that woodgrain is yummy.

I guess I’m going to turn this into “New Owner - Genesis Model 1 Revisions Info”. I’m not tossing this around like a know-it-all n00b. This whole post is presented more as, “Is this correct? Can anyone offer any info or correction or clarification?" In trying to educate ourselves about the revisions of the Model 1 Genesis, my friend and I studied that legendary, glorious post over on sega-16.com, so this is just my attempt to wrap our brains around our attempt to learn from some technical stuff that’s over our heads and concentrate it. For the real scoop, go HERE, to the Genesis Model Revisions mega-thread over at Sega-16 and get all the in-depth details. Laying it all out, so we had a quick guide of what to look for, our team came up with this high-tech chart to help things: [EDIT: The note on the chart is WRONG. The HDG models do not always have the discrete chip, because of the weirdness with VA6.5/6.8. Please imagine VA6.8 squeezed in just above VA7. Our mistake.]... but we can [still] deduce the following (totally) radical theories: - “High-Definition Graphics” does not necessarily mean “non-TMSS” (because of the VA6.0). - Non-TMSS consoles do not necessarily have superior sound to TMSS units, due to the VA2’s sound problems. (They’re significant, whether you use the stereo or composite outs - each has different issues.) - “No 'HDG' logo” does not necessarily mean "bad sound". (The VA6.5 has no 'HDG' logo or EXT port, but has comparable sound circuitry to the earlier, "more desirable” VA3-VA6.0 "HDG" units.) - Having a TMSS console does not necessarily eliminate rainbow banding. (I have a VA6.0 and what I believe to be a VA6.5 that both exhibit some rainbow banding in Sonic 1’s waterfalls, tested on multiple TVs.) - Ultimately, the presence or absence of the "HDG" logo cannot solely determine TMSS from non-TMSS consoles, nor can it determine good sound from bad. Non-TMSS units do not have universally high-quality sound output design, and TMSS Model 1s do not necessarily have inferior sound to a non-TMSS Model 1." Phew. ------------------------------ Looking back, here’s our notes on each of the different versions, translated from bullet points. (We didn’t distinguish the VA6 intricacies on the chart.) VA2 - Non-TMSS US launch consoles. Everyone seems to say "'High-Definition Graphics' models always have good sound”, but the VA2 has significant sound problems, making it the exception to the “non-TMSS always has better sound” common-knowledge rule-of-thumb. Much like its predecessors in the Japan-released VA0 and VA1 Mega Drives, there’s the preamp is too powerful for the stereo out and some (?) models are missing one channel from the composite audio out mix. VA3-5 - Not sure on the specifics between these. People seem to say that the VA4 is maybe slightly harder to find than others. These fix the flawed audio problems of the (VA0-)VA2 board, and since they 1) have fixed audio and 2) are non-TMSS (and therefore say “HDG”), these seem to be the most desirable Genesis consoles for many collectors, even though they aren't the first US revision (the VA2s). VA6 - The first implementation of TMSS. This one’s complicated, because there were apparently other changes within this revision that cross over several categories - VA6 (VA6.0) - The first model to have TMSS, but it still has “HDG” on the face, and still has the EXT port on the back. First model to have the shorter FCC ID. (TMSS/HDG/EXT/discrete YM2612) - VA6.5 - The first sub-revision seems to be most commonly referred to as the VA6.5. As near as I can tell, it’s the same as the VA6.0, but with no “HDG” on the face and it drops the EXT port from the back (though there could be smaller differences above my head). The other ports are still laid out as though it were there. There’s a big plastic “gap” on the left side of the channel switch. (Check out the pics on the Sega-16 thread.) Importantly, this still has a discrete YM2612, making it a “TMSS, non-HDG” Model 1 that still has the desirable, earlier “non-TMSS” sound circuitry. (TMSS/no-HDG/no-EXT/discrete YM2612) - VA6.8 - We're unclear on the differences between the VA6.5 and VA6.8, but THINK it’s that the VA6.8 began using the “inferior” later sound circuitry as a step toward the VA7. Someone please comment below so we have this info collected as many places as possible for posterity? [(TMSS/no-HDG/no-EXT/integrated ASIC)?] VA7 - TMSS, non-HDG, no EXT port on back, and an integrated ASIC audio processor. The output ports in the back have been redesigned to a new layout that doesn’t leave the “space” where the EXT port used to be (see that Sega-16 thread for reference). In this model the discrete YM2612 sound chip is replaced by an integrated ASIC sound processor. The video output is said to be an improvement from earlier versions. These seem to be the reason some people just avoid “non-HDG” Model 1s. It’s my understanding that they’re *almost* a VA0 Genesis 2 in a Model 1 body. --------------------------- I know virtually nothing about Genesis 2s, except that the first few VAs (0-2?) had lousy sound like the Model 1 VA7, but that the later revisions of the Genesis 2 (VA3-4?) were supposed to be vastly improved, and excellent consoles. I’ll have to dive in and learn more than just “look for the 3/4 metal plate through the bottom”. So that’s what we came up with here.. does anyone have anything they can correct or add?

Hey, all... new acolyte to the Genesis/Mega Drive way. Always had love for the system, but my middle school years were based around the SNES. Bought a Genesis and the Sonic games about a decade ago, but got rid of them accidentally a few years back. Finally back in the saddle for the first time, sorta. Somewhat inadvertently, I've ended up with a stack of Model 1s recently to go with the Mega Everdrive she'd gotten me as an early Christmas gift (and the 32X she surprised me with a couple days ago). One of them was a discount Model 1 we got today at a junk shop. So, along with those nifty peripherals, I've now got a set of Genesii as follows: VA2 - Good video, some rainbow banding, but the sound out the front stereo jack has clipping and distortion. Non-TMSS (obviously). Haven't done enough analysis to see if the composite audio out is accurate or just one channel. VA6 - TMSS, "High-Definition Graphics” model, discrete YM2612 chip, with an “Ext” port on the back. Great sound, good video, a little rainbow banding. VA6.X - Non-HDG, discrete YM2612, no “Ext” port, but there is space for it, unlike the VA7 port layout. Great sound, good video, a little banding in Sonic's waterfalls. Can’t figure out if it’s a 6.5 or a 6.8. It’s got the discrete audio chip, but I’m not sure exactly what other factor determines the difference between these two revisions. Can anybody fill me in on the VA6.5 / VA6.8 differences? I'd ask for gaming suggestions, but there are a million of those threads. MUSHA, Truxton, Streets Of Rage/BK 1-3, Sonic 1-4, Bio Hazard Battle, Contra HardCorps, Gynoug, Gunstar Heroes, Space Harrier II, and many, many others have been helping make this holiday season a blast. And finally getting to play the whole SMS library is amazing. Any other suggestions for deep cuts? After a while, the same 50 games or so pop up on all the lists, but anyone have some really, REALLY hidden gems? PS - the side expansion port was plugged with something that didn't fit aesthetically, and when I took it off and unscrewed it for a part number and found it was a "PC-80 Expansion Board", which was apparently something to plug into the VA0 Genesis 2s to make the 32X work with them. Not something I need, but an interesting bonus to find on the VA6.X, which was untested but only $10!

Enjoying reading everyone's responses... My goals are to buy less and play more. 2015 was all about setting up my home gaming arrangement the way I liked it, and now that it's almost complete, I need to spend less time worrying about collecting and spend a lot more time gaming. Flash carts are a boon, but with great power comes great responsibility.

MUCHO love from the whole Shake household for Medieval Mayhem. Mrs S complains the AI is too tough, but is always demanding another game!

I appreciate all the hard work so many programmers put in to design all these new games for our shared hobby. That said, Pac-Man 8K for me. Almost hands-down.

Times are tight, but Mrs S knows a good deal when she hears it, and jumped on the sale for a Mega Everdrive. I'm pretty stoked at the prospect of playing the complete Genesis and Master System libraries! Other than that, I just need peace on Earth, some sort of purpose or direction in my life, and goodwill towards humankind. And socks.

I was just discussing this topic with my wife for this same reason today. The way things are, I would agree about putting "The Empire Strikes Back" first, just because it is about as complete a package of a Star Wars game as is offered on the 2600. Hoth, parallax scrolling, AT-ATs, "Defender" gameplay,and that theme tune. I'm sending my Star Wars loving friend a refurbed Vader and a set of games to get him started as a holiday surprise. This was the only one of the Star Wars games that I felt I absolutely had to include. "The Arcade Game" would actually be my first choice if it weren't for the funky controls that someone upthread mentioned. Other than that, it's a fun port and makes a great 2nd place choice. I'm in the minority, and would put "Jedi Arena" third of the four games. I love paddle games, and while it's "Sar Wars"-ness isn't overwhelming, the game is still fun despite some weird flaws. And agreed, way more fun with a partner than the CPU. "Death Star Battle" leaves me pretty cold. For what it's worth, I could see how somebody would prefer this to "Jedi Arena" or "The Arcade Game" I suppose, but it just isn't for me. The weird split screen issue, graphics that don't quite justify the split screen, and weird interaction with enemy ships just makes this one that I rarely pop in. Despite my dream of being Lando.

Drove about a half hour north of the city to hit up a game store. My local haunts didn't have Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, and I'm putting together a "Vader 2600 & games" starter kit for my Star Wars-loving friend and his daughter out of my spares and a few other choice pickups. I remembered another store out of town had a couple copies last time I was there, so I drove out on a lunch date with my wife so I could finally ship that box off to my pal. Our destination usually has high prices on the marquee stuff ($60 for Mega Man 2??), but sometimes deals slip through the cracks on the 2nd Gen systems. The kid behind the counter is a character, indeed. Going on to anyone in earshot about his expertise, and how he's seen everything come through there at one time or another. He's burning through a line of people, half of whom leave frustrated while Mrs S and I browse the racks. When I eventually get to the counter, he gets in the obligatory jab at E.T.* and starts talking about how Atari games (the only thing I was buying) never look like what they're supposed to ("the people never look like people!"). Always a nice touch, dismissing the system the customer is buying. I mention that I like the way 2600 Commando looks, and he says he's not familiar with that game. I mentioned it at all because the NES version is playing on a monitor not 10 feet away from us at that moment. I rattled off a few more 2600 games that have nice sprites. He's stunned that Double Dragon came out on the 2600. Doesn't believe me. I point out that I'm surprised that he'd never seen one, with his job a store where he'd seen everything come through at some point. I was very surprised when I found out, too. But I'm not touting my knowledge to strangers. Then I find that the "buy one, get one half off" deal does not extend to "of equal value", as I'd assumed. I know it's not marked, but he seems unable to understand my surprise and confusion as to this practice. So instead of buying a $10 game and getting the other for $5, each of the $10 games got paired with a $4 game, because "you can't put a 10 with a 10 and then take half off". Not the end of the world or anything, but it was the second time there's been some borderline-shady sleight-of-hand at the register on the advertised deals at this place. At this point, my wife actually hands me her phone and tells me that my mom just texted and that I'd better get in touch. She winks at me and I step outside, because she knows that killing with kindness might be more effective than me losing my cool. She's crafty and shrewd. I was outside five full minutes before she popped out the door while she explained how things were going to work. But it was the refurbed 2600s that took the cake. The Vader's been there for ages. Their "guy" apparently spends "like, three hours" working on each one, and the $119.95 price tag "probably" includes a controller and power supply. The front face was polished to a brilliant shine, though! There was a standard-issue 4-switch Woody next to it for $129.95, and a Heavy Sixer on the back wall for about $150, though I didn't get a chance to check it out. You can see the corner of the H6 in the background of the pic below. A loose Mario Bros was $19.95, and some VERY well-worn (white-creases) CIB Pitfalls were... well, you get the idea. This gentleman behind the counter let us know that Mrs. S could take all the pictures we want, but asked that if we did, that we make sure to tag them if we put them online. As a courtesy, I'm going to decline to do that, unless anyone asks for it. But it probably wouldn't be hard to triangulate with the info at hand. But on the plus side, I walked away with a handful of loose carts for my buddy, half off one of the only two boxed games I've been looking for, and reason not to go back to that particular store again for a good long while. [*I wasn't going to say anything. But Mrs. S jumped in and explained to him that the ET thing was all internet hype and that there were far worse 2600 games and that the main reason people didn't like it was that they didn't read the manual. I just grinned and appreciated her. He changed the subject.]

Okay, it's late, I've had a few, and I'm so dimwitted about electronics, please forgive me if you referred to this and the reference went over my head. But, have you checked the switch itself? DeOxit and all on the inside connections? I tore my hair out trying to fix a circuit once and after testing and replacing all kinds of components I found it was a sketchy power supply. Not the same, but just a thought. You clearly seem to know what you're doing with electronics, but hey, maybe it's something too obvious like that. Good luck!

Along with all the reasons mentioned above, I've often wondered if the physical hardware itself is somehow off-putting to unfamiliar players. The 3rd Gen systems set a sort of physical uniformity to consoles for years to follow -- 2 all-in-one controllers coming out the front and a console box that (usually) outputs composite video with a startup menu screen, etc.. While the VCS isn't that different, the interface of big shiny levers and manual-required numbered game variations has just enough quirkiness to scare some people and intrigue others. I feel like it's a big, sexy, old-school-mechanical aesthetic, like you're throwing switches in some mad, primitive computing experiment. I feel in a place like this, some of you may agree with me. But friends who've come over to my place and seen our setup are afraid to try it, even if they've got experience with other older systems. In addition to the "How do I use that?" factor, there's an array of peripherals (paddle controllers, driving controllers, keypad controllers, 3rd party stuff) and "same-tech, different-look" console variations (6-switch, 4-switch, Vader, Jr) even within the 2600 line that it could be daunting to someone who only has a passing interest. As time pushes us further from that era, many people don't realize that there were three different major Atari systems, and that not all of them are compatible with each other. I had a friend just this weekend get excited to tell me about her dad's "Atari" and how she wanted to play mine when she came to visit... it wasn't 'til we were talking about controllers that I deduced she was talking about a 5200. And on top of that, it seems like a crap shoot as to whether a given CX-40 will work, and I've been burned enough times on crapped-out controllers that "Pfft, it probably won't even work." isn't an out-of-the-question mindset. Thanks to a place like AA, the information is there to be had, but there can definitely be a higher barrier to entry if you're coming in cold.

I've always seen the Second Generation as a subdivided thing. To me, "Gen 2.0" is Atari 2600, Odyssey2 and the like. Largely cartridge-based, pre-tile pixel-graphics systems. My idea of "Gen 2.5" is ColecoVision, Intellivision, 5200, and other late-era, pre-NES consoles. Frankly, I'd likely slot the 7200 into Gen 2.5, based on its technology and the initial projected release date. Of course, all this is fairly subjective, but it seemed that the historical lineage of things made a lot more sense by breaking this explosive, formative era down to smaller bites as many new ideas hit the market. YMMV.

Whoa whoa whoa... this is a complicated thread, to be sure... But are you talkin' smack about Skate Or Die?