MaximRecoil

I remember NES and SMS commercials appearing on TV at around the same time back in '85 or early '86 (I was 10 or 11 at the time). I was amazed by the graphics of the games they were showing in the commercials, especially the graphics of the SMS. They made the previous pre-crash consoles look instantly obsolete. Between the two, and only judging by the commercials, I was more impressed with the SMS. Not only did the graphics look better, but the console and peripherals looked better too; way better in fact. On the one hand you had something that looked like a real game console; sleek and black; which accepted cartridges that looked like real cartridges. On the other hand you had something that looked like a humidifier: And accepted weird giant flat cartridges. I thought for sure that between the two systems, the SMS would be more successful (apparently I was right with regard to Europe). A few weeks after seeing those first commercials for the NES and SMS, I went to visit my cousin who lived a few towns over. He has upstairs in his room playing his brand new NES (I was expecting him to be playing his formerly beloved ColecoVision). He had one of the early sets, which included Gyromite and Duck Hunt as pack-in games, along with two gamepads, a light gun, and the robot (which never actually worked, rendering Gyromite essentially useless). He'd also bought Super Mario Bros., Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda (he may have gotten that one a little later), and Excitebike cartridges. He was playing SMB when I walked in. After my initial surprise of seeing my first NES in real life, I asked him why he got one. "You should have gotten a Sega Master System," I said. Then I started making fun of its appearance and that silly looking SMB game he was playing; and what the hell was up with those controllers anyway? Those weren't joysticks. Well, since I was there for the weekend, and Mike didn't want to hook up his ColecoVision, I figured I'd give this weird "Nintendo" of his a chance. I tried my hand at SMB and it seemed like a foolish, childish, pointless game to me. Plus the controller was really, really weird. I asked him what other games he had. Excitebike. Excitebike?! Damn! Unbeknownst to Mike, but knownst to me, Excitebike was one of my then-current arcade addictions. I'd been playing the arcade version down at the local laundromat most every day for a few months at the time. I was skeptical though. I'd played home console ports of arcade games before, and while some of them were decent, they all paled in terms of graphics, audio, and gameplay; in comparison to their arcade counterparts. So when he put the game in and fired it up, I was stunned. It was the same game! The graphics and sounds were identical. And as soon as I started playing it, I discovered that the gameplay was identical as well. I couldn't believe it. Playing an actual arcade game on a home console (rather than a downgraded port) had always seemed too good to be true. All I wanted to do for the rest of the day was play Excitebike. Sure, I was still skeptical about those weird little gamepads, and commented more than once about how this would be absolutely perfect if I just had a real joystick; but all of the sudden that seemed like a minor quibble. This ugly duckling of a game console had suddenly transformed into a swan in my opinion. Even when Mike finally pulled me away from Excitebike to go outside and do something, all I did I was talk about how amazing it was. With my newfound respect for the NES, I decided to give that silly SMB game another chance. I wasn't very good at it (it was a totally different style of game than I'd ever played before; and I was still fumbling with those weird controllers); but Mike was doing pretty well, so I watched him play it. When we started discovering secret things like vines to climb and warp zones; I started getting really interested in the game. It seemed like some expansive, immersive world, the likes of which I'd never seen in a video game before. Some of my favorite memories from my childhood was when I'd spend the weekend at Mike's and we'd try to beat a new NES game. SMB and SMB 2 particularly stand out in my mind. Now, getting back to Excitebike; what I didn't realize at the time was that the Excitebike I'd been playing in the arcade before I'd even heard of the NES was not a true arcade game at all. It was a NES game all along; and the Nintendo VS. hardware inside that machine was simply NES hardware with RGB output. Since I didn't know that at the time, I greatly overestimated the NES's capabilities. I figured that if one arcade game could be brought to the NES fully intact, than any arcade game could be brought to the NES in all of its arcade glory. I started dreaming about my all time favorite arcade game; a game that was manufactured by Nintendo no less; Punch-Out!!; coming to the NES. I got my wish a year or two later with the arrival of Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!; and what a reality-check that was. As it turned out, NES hardware was a joke compared to arcade Punch-Out!! hardware; and I was forever disillusioned of the notion that the NES was some boundless powerhouse capable of replicating any arcade game out there. The NES Double Dragon port further confirmed this for me. In time I came to like Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! on its own merits; though not as much as the arcade Punch-Out!! and Super Punch-Out!! (which I now own); and the little NES pads grew on me as well. I can use them just as well as any joystick.

the nes had the same hardware as the "Vs." line of nintendo arcade games, but i do not know if the arcade hardware was first, or if it was based off of existing famicom hardware Nintendo's first widely successful arcade hardware was used in Donkey Kong; which was reused Radar Scope hardware from 1980; 3 years before the NES hardware. The same year the NES hardware came out (1983), they developed the Punch-Out hardware which was far more powerful than NES hardware. Compare the graphics, sounds, and animations of the arcade Punch-Out and Super Punch-Out to NES's Mike Tyson's Punch-Out sometime. Judging by the NES Donkey Kong port, the NES hardware wasn't even as powerful as their 1980 Radar Scope/Donkey Kong arcade hardware. And you are correct about the VS. hardware which came out in 1985. It wasn't just based on NES hardware; for all intents and purposes, it was NES hardware. The same goes for PlayChoice-10 hardware. I'm not sure where you got the idea that most arcade machines had wrong-handed controls. With the exception of track ball games (e.g., Missile Command, Centipede, etc.), there were pretty much no machines with buttons on the left and the directional control on the right. Track ball machines were set up that way because using an analog track ball requires far more precision and dexterity than using a digital joystick, and most people are right-handed, so it was put on the right. The first really successful arcade game to use a joystick and button control layout was Space Invaders, and they put the joystick on the left and the button on the right. Note that Midway cabinets used two buttons for directional control rather than a joystick like was used on Taito cabinets; but the two buttons that were doing the job of the joystick were still on the left. The next big game to use a joystick and button was Galaxian. It also put the joystick on the left and the button on the right. Then came Defender; one of the top grossing machines of all time, which also had the joystick on the left and the buttons on the right. The list could go on and on. Having the buttons on the left and the joystick on the right was a rare exception (I can't think of any machines that were like that off the top of my head), and controls like that were derisively called "wrong-handed". Arcade operators were notorious for wrong-handing the 2nd player controls when doing bad conversions. Maybe you played a lot of Pac-Man back then, which had a centered joystick and no gameplay buttons; which allowed you to use either hand. If you always used your right hand, that may explain your inaccurate recollection of the situation.

I don't have either of those things. Do those screen shots actually have different colors than what you'd see on a standard NES? I knew that special RGB versions of the NES were used for screenshots, but I didn't know they had the same altered palette as the PC-10 and VS. machines. I've hooked up quite a few arcade boardsets in my JAMMA cabinet, made by various manufacturers and they all have a perfect picture. Any difference in picture quality that may exist is too small to notice, especially on a standard resolution monitor with its course dot pitch and shadow mask. Even with a high resolution, fine dot pitch PC monitor with a "VGA connection"; changing out the video card in your PC rarely results in a noticeable difference in the picture quality of Windows. I'm only interested in displaying games at their native resolution. In this context, HDTV is not an upgrade at all; it is a kludge. I'll keep an eye out for a large CRT presentation monitor (I've wanted one for a while now anyway). In the meantime, I'm going to look into that RGB mod. I have a couple of spare NES's, and I can always test it out on the Sanyo EZV.

I'd say that Carnival is the hardest arcade game of all time, out of the ones that are well-known (who knows if there is an obscure one out there that is harder?). This game starts out easy, but few people ever make it past the 5th level. Even in MAME with cheats enabled (unlimited bullets) it is hard to make it past the 5th level, unless you are very precise and quick with every shot. As far as games that are hard right from the moment you start playing, I'd go with Defender or Stargate... that's not counting Defender 3 of course - http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=ztveao&s=3 I have the Twin Galaxies record score on this game, and I also own the arcade machine (along with a regular Punch-Out boardset that I can swap into it). You are right; this is a difficult game; significantly more so than Punch-Out is. I first started playing it when I was 12 years old in 1987 at the local general store, and played it most every day for about a year straight, until the machine was removed from there and replaced with something else. That was the last I ever saw of it until I discovered MAME in 2002, and then a few years later I acquired the actual machine.

I'd like to see a comparison of the color differences on a well-known game like Super Mario Bros. I know. Any gameboard that outputs RGB has a beautiful picture. I own arcade machines (including a Nintendo-built Super Punch-Out [1985], along with a regular Punch-Out [1984] that can be swapped in), so I know exactly how 15 kHz RGB output looks. Did you follow a tutorial? If so, is it available online? I actually have an extra 19" Sanyo 20-EZV arcade monitor which is what was originally used in Nintendo arcade machines, including the NES-based PlayChoice-10 and VS. machines. However, I prefer to play console games sitting on the couch across the room from the display, and prefer something like my 32" standard-resolution 4:3 AR CRT TV for that. 32" presentation monitors are neither cheap nor easy to find. BTW, for people who are not familiar with how nice RGB output is, here is a comparison between S-video on a standard resolution CRT TV and 15 kHz RGB on a standard resolution CRT arcade monitor; from the arcade game Robotron: S-Video: RGB:

You've only seen pictures of the lines? I have a top loader and it sucks. The first time I tried it I thought it was defective because of the lines. I checked online and found out that the lines are actually a "feature" of the NES 2. My top loader is collecting dust. It is reliable but I'm not going to deal with the lines and RF connection simply because Nintendo wanted to be cheap. I replaced the 72-pin connector in a standard front-loader and disabled the lockout chip, and it works perfectly now, every time. BTW, most of the replacement 72-pin connectors are a tight fit for the cartridge, but no tighter than a standard card-edge connector is, like is used on all other cartridge-based consoles. The tightness allows the machine to work without pushing the cartridge and carriage down; so in effect, it works like a standard card-edge connector. In fact, it is best to not push the cartridge down if you have a tight replacement 72-pin connector, because that will only accelerate wear on the connector; plus there is a good chance that it won't work when pushed down anyway. I'd like to see a tutorial on the RGB mod that one of the posters in this thread has mentioned, though it is not really practical if you live in the US, given that there are very few consumer display devices here that accept a 15 kHz RGB signal. You'd need an arcade monitor or a presentation monitor. Also, some of the old PC monitors were multi-sync, and could accept such a signal. Plus the PlayChoice and VS. PPUs have a different palette so the colors in the games you play are going to end up wrong.

Robotron-style controls would be great in a console version of Ikari Warriors, except that you have two buttons to worry about as well. In Robotron the second joystick both aims and fires the gun in full-auto mode, and you never run out of bullets. In Ikari, you don't want to have the gun automatically fire whenever you aim like in Robotron, because you have a limited supply of rounds. Plus you have a button for grenades. It is hard to use two joysticks and operate buttons as well. However, a pair of trigger sticks or top-fire sticks could work quite well, assuming the game could be hacked to support such a setup. Something like this:

I like the game well enough to own an original dedicated Ikari Warriors coin-op arcade machine. Ikari Warriors is one of those games where something very important gets lost in the translation when ported to a home console. The game needs rotary joysticks. In '87 my friend Corey and I played the arcade machine quite often at the local laundromat. Later, one of our friends got the game for the Atari 7800; but without the rotary joysticks, the game might as well be Commando; which I don't like at all. I don't like having to walk in the direction that you want to shoot. Games where the direction you are walking in and the direction you are aiming/firing in are controlled independently are much more fun IMO, such as the arcade versions of Robotron, Smash TV, Heavy Barrel, Ikari Warriors (of course), and many others. The best way to play Ikari Warriors without buying the original arcade machine is through MAME with a rotary arcade joystick interfaced to the PC through one of the adapters that are made specifically for the purpose. Ikari Warriors came with SNK LS-30 joysticks manufactured by Seimitsu, but those are getting hard to find now (fortunately my machine has a new one for player 1, and a used one in decent shape for player 2). Happ mechanical rotary joysticks also work, and are still available new.

I don't have a ColecoVision, and the Pac-Man games aren't really my cup of tea, but I still find this amazing from a technical achievement perspective. From what I've seen of it in the YouTube videos, it does appear to be the most faithful versions of Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man ever ported to a home console (emulated versions for modern consoles don't count, as they are not actually "ports"). To be fair though, no one in the early '80s could use 128 KB worth of ROM space and expect to sell it for a reasonable price to the home consumer; that was arcade ROM size territory (the Pac-Man arcade version was 185 KB in size). Even one of the early "large" games for the NES; Super Mario Bros. (1985) was only 40 KB in size. By the late '80s and early '90s it would have been feasible (Super Mario Bros. 3 was 385 KB for example), and I believe the NES hardware was capable of an essentially arcade-perfect [Ms.] Pac-Man port, but apparently no one cared enough to actually do it. The NES Pac-Man port was pretty bad, as was the Ms. Pac-Man port. The Tengen version of Ms. Pac-Man on the NES has essentially perfect graphics, but the 3/4 screen combined with scrolling is a bit odd. The sounds are off too. The SNES and Genesis certainly had the berries and ROM space to do perfect ports, but they decided that "enhancement" was the way to go instead. The Atarisoft prototype for the ColecoVision is a nice port of Pac-Man (especially considering it is only 16 KB) that is very playable, and includes the intermission scenes and has decent audio. It isn't perfectly faithful to the arcade version, but all the fundamentals were there. Additionally, all four ghosts are rock solid (no flicker whatsoever that I can see). Another thing about it, which I think may be unique to this particular port, is that it shows an animation of the ghosts regenerating in their base after they've been eaten. This wasn't in the arcade version, but it is cool nonetheless. I think this would have been a big seller for the CV had it seen the light of day in time. I have a couple of questions. First, I have a demo ROM of Pac-Man from late 2004 where the first screen is playable. Did anything change from that stage in terms of graphics, audio, playability, etc., in the final release? If so, is there a demo ROM available that is representative of the final release? Second, why is there space between the outlines of the maze walls and the solid inner color of the walls in Ms. Pac-Man? That's not how it is in the arcade version (the outline surrounds the outer edges of the solid colored walls with no gaps/space in between). Is that due to a technical limitation of the CV?

If you knew the pinout of an SNES cartridge, you could simply wire power and ground from a suitable power supply to a 62-pin card edge connector (like this one) in order to have it powered up while you change the battery. I'd rather do that than try to have it in a powered up console while changing the battery, or soldering additional leads to the cartridge's PCB. I suppose you could even do it with alligator clips from a power supply to the right contacts on the card edge of the PCB, but having the correct type of card edge connector would be a more secure arrangement while working on the PCB. I didn't realize you could upload and download saves with a Game Shark. Does this work with all battery-backed SNES cartridges? And are Game Sharks for the SNES hard to find and/or expensive?

Yeah, and even if you do manage to break the tabs off without mangling everything, the final result is still a dubious electrical connection secured with tape. I noticed that this thread is now the 4th Google result for "SNES battery", so maybe it will help people find the correct battery for this type of replacement. Mouser will probably wonder what's with the sudden popularity of Sanyo CR2032-T14-1 batteries, lol.

That would work. It wouldn't be my first choice though. I don't like the idea of something taped inside the cartridge. Also, since these batteries have been known to last for 15-20 years, it is not like having a holder for it is a huge advantage. A correct style replacement, securely soldered to the PCB, is definitely my first choice. Fortunately the correct style of battery is available. I have no idea why the information about where to get such batteries is not readily available on the net. In fact, the top search result on Google for "SNES battery" is to a page with ridiculous instructions (link). Basically what those instructions say to do is, break the spot welds on the original battery and remove it, leaving the original tabs still soldered to the board. Then, slide a new ordinary CR2032 (no tabs) in there so it is contacting the original tabs that are still soldered to the board. Then, tape the hell out of it. No thanks. I have a better idea. Buy the correct style of CR2032 battery in the first place (or have one made at Batteries Plus like was mentioned earlier in this thread).

Yeah, I looked at a few CR2032 battery holders I had on old PC motherboards and they were all too tall to fit in an SNES cartridge too. The original batteries only have about 1/8" of headroom when the cartridge is screwed together, so I doubt there would be any CR2032 battery holder that would fit in there and still allow the cartridge to be screwed back together.

Yeah, check the last line of my opening post. They look like this: They are just standard CR2032 batteries, except they have insulation and spot-welded tabs. They look perfect for an SNES cartridge battery replacement to me. Well, those Sanyo batteries work perfectly. The spot-welded tabs are the same as the original batteries and they are a direct drop-in replacement with no problems. I used one to replace the battery on a Super Mario World cartridge, and it saves games like it should with the new battery. I bought them from Mouser.com (link). Just make sure you get the polarity the same as the original battery. On the original battery, one of the tabs is fatter than the other, along with one of the solder holes being fatter, so it is not possible to get the polarity wrong. On these Sanyo batteries, both tabs are the same thickness so you could get the polarity wrong if you don't take note of which way they are supposed to go beforehand.

1. Super Punch-Out 2. Punch-Out 3. Street Fighter II 4. Super Dodge Ball 5. Double Dragon

Yeah, the NeoGeo had a 12 mHz 68000 and the Genesis had a 7.67 mHz 68000, but the NeoGeo had a far more powerful graphics engine, and far more powerful sound capabilites as well. The Playstation 2D fighter ports were definitely improved over the SNES and Genesis ports. Maybe they weren't up to the level of what the NeoGeo could do (it's been like 10 years since I've played an SF port on the Playstation) but it was the closest comparison I could think of. But I was thinking CPS-1 level games anyway (SFII:WW, SFII:CE, SFII:HF), which I'm sure the Playstation could handle accurate ports of. The games you mentioned originally ran on Capcom's CPS-2 arcade hardware which is more powerful than both CPS-1 and NeoGeo. Maybe it could be said that the NeoGeo had 2D capabilites somewhere between the PS1 and the PS2. Either way, it blows the Genesis out of the water by a long shot.

Williams Stargate (1981). Nintendo "Red Tent" cocktail machines.

Yeah, check the last line of my opening post. They look like this: They are just standard CR2032 batteries, except they have insulation and spot-welded tabs. They look perfect for an SNES cartridge battery replacement to me.

The Genesis is not even in the same league as the NeoGeo MVS/AES hardware, and neither is the SNES. You'd need something along the lines of a Sony Playstation to equal the 2D capabilities of the NeoGeo. Take a look at e.g., "SVC Chaos: SNK vs. Capcom" and compare it to the SFII ports that were done for the Genesis and SNES. The NeoGeo was arcade hardware released in 1990, while the Genesis was console hardware released in 1988. Remember, we didn't get arcade-quality ports of the Street Fighter games until the Playstation came along in 1995, which is something the NeoGeo was more than capable of all along. The NeoGeo is more powerful than Capcom's CPS-1 arcade hardware (released in 1988), which the original SFII ran on. Both the Genesis and the SNES were a good deal less powerful than Capcom's CPS-1 hardware, as evidenced by their respective ports of SFII.

That sucks. I wouldn't want anyone else to solder anything for me either. I worked in a PCB factory for 2 years, inspecting and soldering about 1,000 boards a night. I also trained new-hires to solder (and desolder). The PCB's we made were for commercial fire alarm systems like you would find in a hospital or a school, which were classified as "life-saving equipment", so they were very particular about the quality of the soldering (as well as everything else). I have the same model of Metcal soldering iron at home that they had for us to use at work too. They retail for about $450 new, but I got a good deal on a used one. They are amazing -- nothing else compares IMO, not even a $1,000 Hakko. I'll post back here about how those Sanyo batteries with the tabs work out.

Yup. The original Deluxe Set w/ R.O.B. didn't either...it came with Duck Hunt and Gyromite. That's the one my cousin got when the NES first came out. He bought SMB separately. That robot never worked for him either.

Except that a raster arcade monitor and a "home color TV" of the time = the same resolution capability. A traditional TV and a standard resolution (15.75 kHz) raster arcade monitor are the same thing, except the arcade monitor doesn't have a tuner, and it has RGBS inputs.

That's interesting. That's something they do right in the store? The closest one to me is an hour away though, so I'll see how these Sanyo batteries from Mouser.com work first.

If you mean a battery holder then they are too big, unless you know of a really low-profile one. Actually I'd just prefer the correct battery because there is no chance of them losing the connection momentarily, like if the cartridge is dropped or something. I'll probably just order the one from Mouser.com that I linked to. It's weird that Super Metroid already needs a new one, I have 8-bit games with battery backup that still works. It doesn't need a new one yet. I just want to replace it because it is about 13 years old now.

If you mean a battery holder then they are too big, unless you know of a really low-profile one. Actually I'd just prefer the correct battery because there is no chance of them losing the connection momentarily, like if the cartridge is dropped or something. I'll probably just order the one from Mouser.com that I linked to.