MaximRecoil
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Posts posted by MaximRecoil
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It isn't. I pointed out video proof that theses controllers were not created equal. You assumed they would be drop in replacements for the original but now it is confirmed that is not the case. No need to get up in arms; just admit your original idea may not work as planned.
You're wrong, in more than one way, no less. For example, I'm not getting "up in arms" about anything (textbook example of a non sequitur there from you), and I have no trouble saying that something, which I clearly pointed out was tentative to begin with, won't work, if that turns out to be the case. There's nothing to "admit", because it was always provisional, i.e., an "if/then" scenario, i.e., if the parts are interchangeable, then I will interchange them.
Of course, what I've been talking about all along will work fine, as you proved for me by posting that video. Read my edit above.
Sure you can do a full PCB swapGood grief. That's what I've been talking about doing all along. How many times have I mentioned the bonus of getting a new shell, buttons, and D-pad in the process? At least 4 or 5 times, not including this time.
but the membranes and other parts are not drop in replacements for OEM NES controllers.I never claimed they were, nor do I have any interest in only doing a rubber switch swap. I'll repeat just one of the several times I've pointed this out:
"Because you get Nintendo rubber switches instead of random Chinese-factory switches, and you get a new shell, buttons, and D-pad. In other words, the controller will look, feel, and function like brand new, because everything will be brand new aside from the PCB and cord. So yes, it does make sense, really. As I said before, the two things aren't even comparable. One gets you new switches of unknown origin/provenance, and the other gets you an almost entirely new Nintendo-brand controller."
You made the case that you wanted OEM parts to refurbish your NES controllers, yet the OEM NES Classic Mini controllers clearly do not have the exact same build and feel to the original. I'm not sure I understand your point of view that video games must be exactly the same experience with exactly the technology in 2016 as people experienced them 30 years ago. Technology has changed over the past 3 decades and the NES Classic Mini clearly doesn't meet your expectations, so you'll just have to accept that it doesn't and move on. Nobody's forcing you to buy one.If this were from any deeper in left field you would be in the stands. The NES Mini controller will be perfect for what I've said all along that I want to do, as the video you graciously linked to confirms.
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I hate to poke holes in your logic, but someone posted this on nintendoage. They are not the same internally, and the pads are shaped differently.
Don't worry, you're not poking holes in my logic, because this has nothing to do with logic. I've said all along that I'm basing it on those pictures that were linked to earlier, and I don't know for sure if the rubber switches are the same. I even reiterated that in my most recent post:
"The NES Mini controllers will make perfect parts donors, assuming that everything which appears to be interchangeable with the originals, is in fact interchangeable."
Edit: I just watched that video you linked to, and apparently you didn't. That guy did exactly what I've been talking about doing all along, i.e., he swapped an original NES controller PCB and cord into an NES Mini controller; he specifically says it now has "all new shell, all new buttons, all new rubber". The rubber switches don't fit the original shell properly, but they obviously fit their own shell just fine, which is all that matters for what I'm talking about.
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@Maxim, good luck finding a controller for $10 right now.
In my previous post I said:
"Also, I'm in no hurry."
And as I mentioned earlier, I have a pair of NOS (new old stock) controllers (Model No. : NES-004) for my main NES, and those will probably outlive me, but I have other NES consoles in various conditions (all functional) that I like to tinker on from time to time. I have 3 OEM 72-pin connectors coming in the mail today that I'm going to install in them, and at some point I'll refurbish their controllers. The NES Mini controllers will make perfect parts donors, assuming that everything which appears to be interchangeable with the originals, is in fact interchangeable.
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I'm not convinced Sanwas are the same dimensions as a vintage Donkey Kong or VS Unisystem stick. They certainly don't feel the same.
I don't know one way or the other, though Nintendo arcade joysticks have a wide/narrow mounting plate like other Japanese joysticks do, as opposed to the more squarish mounting plate typical of American joysticks.
Also this joystick will be used with other Nintendo games so it needs to be 8-way capable.There's no good solution for that that I know of. As I'm sure you know, some joysticks have restrictors which allow you to rotate them to make them 4- or 8-way, but that requires you to open up the controller to get to it. There is the Ultimarc Mag-Stik Plus which can be switched from 4- to 8-way by pulling up on the handle and rotating, but a lot of people don't like the feel of their unique magnetic centering (most joysticks are centered with a grommet or spring). Its predecessor, no longer in production, was spring-centered, but a lot of people complained about its short and very stiff throw.
As for me, I'd be all set with just a dedicated 4-way joystick, because I find a D-pad to be fine for 8-way games. D-pads (and 8-way joysticks) suck for certain 4-way games though, such as Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, Pengo, etc.
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Guys, I'm sure the new Mini controllers are just as good as the OEMs. But the spare Mini controllers are even harder to procure atm than the Mini itself. You aren't going to find one for $10 right now, unless you stood in line last Friday morning or got really lucky shopping online. The only part that can possibly wear out on the OEM controllers is the membrane (which is made from flexible silicone, not rubber btw, and does not dry rot the way carbon based rubber does), which can easily be replaced.
It is known as silicone rubber. Some other silicone-based products are silicone oil/spray lubricant, silicone grease, silicone resin, silicone adhesive, and silicone caulk. Silicone rubber does deteriorate with age (such as via oxidation from exposure to ozone, i.e., the same mechanism which contributes to the deterioration of all types of rubber and plastic), though it is among the most resistant types of rubber to such deterioration. Also, I'm in no hurry.
So why buy new Mini controllers for PCB swaps from an old controller when you can just bulk buy replacement silicone membranes for cheap? It makes no sense really.Because you get Nintendo rubber switches instead of random Chinese-factory switches, and you get a new shell, buttons, and D-pad. In other words, the controller will look, feel, and function like brand new, because everything will be brand new aside from the PCB and cord. So yes, it does make sense, really. As I said before, the two things aren't even comparable. One gets you new switches of unknown origin/provenance, and the other gets you an almost entirely new Nintendo-brand controller. And $10 is a good price, considering that's what generic knockoffs of NES controllers often cost - https://www.amazon.com/NES-Controller-Generic-Nintendo-Entertainment-System/dp/B000UCF9TA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=atariage&linkId=759c664a19895e3bf856c157150b614e
As a bonus you get to keep the NES mini / Wii / Wii U compatible guts, which you could use in a project such as building an arcade stick.
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It's always been referred to as the toaster. Nintendo even jokingly referred to it a such back in the day.
Citation needed.
Have you been living under a rock???Have you been living under a bridge?
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Maximum we disagree, plain and simple. I'm not a troll I just don't agree with you and your logic.
So these aren't troll-type comments?
"Now you are starting to sound like a princess who can feel a pea under her mattress."
"For someone like yourself who is so anal"
To me OEM or as you like to put it "original equipment manufacturer" is just that ORIGINAL!!!!! Regardless of what you feel is original fact is a controller designed and made in 2016 is NOT original equipment to a controller designed and manufactured over 30 years ago.OEM simply means the original manufacturer of a product, or a manufacturer authorized by the original manufacturer, as distinguished from aftermarket. Nintendo certainly isn't an aftermarket manufacturer of Nintendo products. As an another analogy, the hood hinges in my aforementioned '69 Dodge Charger are from an '84 Dodge fullsize pickup. They were made 15 years later for a completely different type of vehicle, but they are the exact same design and from the same manufacturer; they are OEM.
And $10 isn't exactly a big gamble. I suspect the quality will be on par with the original NES controllers, but if isn't, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
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Yes but original controllers do not work with this thing. I have some adapters but can't test as I do not have mini classic box yet. So the ones that come with it are good enough for now.
I'm not talking about using original controllers with this thing. I'm talking about using the new NES Mini controllers as a source of parts to refurbish an original NES controller, for use with an original NES. From the pictures, it appears that everything is interchangeable aside from the PCB and cord.
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Maxim if you want to buy a classic mini controller to swap out the guts by all means you go right ahead. I find it quite hypocritical to talk about wanting OEM and state the reason you want to use a controller made 30 years later is to stay OEM.
There is nothing "hypocritical" about it. The original NES controller was a Nintendo product. The new NES mini controller is a Nintendo product. Again, OEM refers to the manufacturer. I have a '69 Dodge Coronet steering column in my '69 Dodge Charger, and it is OEM, as well as an exact fit, despite being originally installed in a different product line. They are both Chrysler products.
The classic mini is NOT OEM to the Nintendo system 30 years ago, that is what I am saying. It is OEM to the classic mini of today.OEM doesn't mean what you think it means.
You think Nintendo just used left over controllers, rubbers, and buttons from a warehouse they had stocked for the past 30 years, yeah ok.Given that I never claimed, suggested, nor even hinted at any such thing, this sentence of yours is straight out of deep left field.
My other point is there are plenty of original NES OEM controllers that can be purchased for the price of this mini controller.Not NOS ones. Aside from the PCB and cord, you'll end up with a brand new, Nintendo-brand NES controller.
For someone like yourself who is so analSo you're a "troll" then? There's nothing "anal" about preferring OEM controllers to aftermarket ones. The only aftermarket ones that are any good are the ones specifically built to a high quality standard, such as ones which use real arcade joysticks and buttons. That doesn't apply to unauthorized imitations of the originals made in some random Chinese factory.
about everything being original hardware that heaven forbid you use aftermarket rubber pads that you will never see or feel besides the spring they give the real buttons which in my opinion feels just fine, one would think you would obviously spend the $$ on actual OEM NES and not OEM classic mini!For the third time, it isn't just about "feel", not that I'd take anyone else's word on that anyway.
I get you are saying all of it is OEM Nintendo and you are trying to say just because it is Nintendo that is good enough for you, regardless of the fact they are not original parts from 30 years ago. Whatever floats your boat. As long as Nintendo used it, you are happy.Why should I care that they are not "original parts from 30 years ago"? In fact, newly-manufactured is theoretically better in this case, because both rubber and plastic deteriorate with age, to varying degrees. I trust Nintendo's quality when it comes to making controllers, so if that's an option, that's what I'll go with.
Also, you're arguing for an alternative that isn't even comparable to this. Buying knockoff rubber switches, even if they were just as good, doesn't get you a new shell, D-pad, and buttons, and buying a used original doesn't get you new anything (plus I already have used originals; that's the whole point).
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I'll admit it's not perfect. I did stick on the ladders momentarily in some cases but luckily it did not cause a death. Also stiff switches help somewhat to avoid hitting diagonals.
I wanted to put a circle or octagon gate in there (not a big fan of squares) but the restrictor gate on the JLF cloned joystick is nearly impossible to remove. I may have to Dremel the tabs a bit to get the restrictor plate off, or drop in a real Sanwa. If I use the dremel, I run the risk of destroying the cloned stick and the Sanwas are like $21 plus Paradise Arcade charges like $14 to ship a single joystick. And if I buy one on eBay, I'm liable to get another clone stick.
I wonder if Sanwa joysticks have the same mounting dimensions as an original Nintendo arcade joystick. They are both Japanese joysticks, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did. A 4-way Nintendo arcade joystick like came in Donkey Kong machines would be as authentic as you can get for playing Donkey Kong. Actual Donkey Kong joysticks tend to be pricey, but the ones they used on other machines were fundamentally the same thing (slightly smaller balltop), and those used to be cheap; especially ones from a VS. or PC-10 machine. I don't know if they still are cheap though. Those came with an 8-way restrictor plate, but are compatible with a 4-way restrictor. The reproduction Nintendo restrictors are nicer than the originals too; they are CNC machined instead of stamped, and they are smooth as greased glass.
Here's the mounting dimensions for a Nintendo joystick:
Nintendo joysticks are practically indestructable; they are all steel. Most of the well-used ones need nothing more than a good cleaning in the pivot ball socket. Soak one in e.g. gasoline overnight and it makes things easy.
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These classic minis are not OEM NES either.
OEM means "original equipment manufacturer". "NES" isn't a manufacturer.
Hey whatever floats your boat. If you want pay $10 for some rubbers go right ahead.And shell, and buttons, and D-pad, all brand new, all OEM. I guess you "forgot" that you also get those things, right? You know, because it was so long ago that I posted:
"[...] and as a bonus, I'd get brand new everything (shell, buttons, and D-pad), aside from the PCB and cord."
There is no difference in the feel of rubber membranes.Or so you say. There is also a potential quality difference, both in the type of rubber used and the electrically-conductive black coating on the contact points. Nintendo has always made excellent quality controllers, so sticking with their parts is a safe bet.
Now you are starting to sound like a princess who can feel a pea under her mattress.Baseless assertions have no validity.
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I think that is a perfect example of it being different based on location because I'm from Indiana and have always called it the NES but not Nezz. That is how they would shorthand it to fit in commercials,"Get it for the NES!". I was young enough that at first I probably wasn't even conscious that I was saying letters and probably at first thought I was saying,"Any S" or didn't even think that deeply about it because it came so naturally. Then the SNES was the Super NES.
I don't have strong memories of the NES commercials, except for when they first appeared in 1986 (I was 11) around the same time that Sega Master System commercials first appeared. I was amazed by the graphics on both systems, and in those early commercials the voiceover said "Nintendo Entertainment System" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pW2IYOivA. But like I said, I don't really remember the later commercials, because once the newness wore off I didn't pay much attention to them. I was playing the NES earlier than most people, because my cousin got one about 2 weeks after they were released nationwide in 9/86. They didn't become wildly popular until a couple of years later.
But yeah, there are no doubt regional differences (I'm from Maine), and maybe even age group differences. I was 13/14 by the time the NES really took off, and paying more attention to girls and trying to obtain beer and .22 ammo with my friends than video games at the time. I did own an NES briefly in 1988 or 1989 which I bought from a friend for $25, but sold it a few months later to another friend for $25 because I was bored with it. I didn't really value them until I was an adult, and nostalgia set it.
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I wish that Dodge Ball (AKA: Super Dodge Ball) had been ported to the 7800. It's a fun (and comical) game on the NES, but it has severe flicker because of the number of sprites on the screen at once. I believe that the 7800 can handle all of those sprites (and more) without flicker; just look at Robotron 2084 on the 7800 for example.
The arcade version has good graphics and no flicker, but it isn't as fun as the NES version. In the arcade version you only have one big guy who can only do one type of "super throw", and it only works when doing a running jump. The NES version doesn't have any little guys; they are all big and each have their own version of the "super throw". Plus there are comical elements that the arcade version lacks, such as hitting someone so hard that it knocks them off the screen and back onto the screen from the other side ("around the world"). It is one of the few console ports that I like better than the arcade (which is saying a lot, because I was addicted to the arcade version as a kid, long before I ever heard of the NES version). So I'd like to see a 7800 port that plays like the NES version rather than the arcade version, and a Pokey sound chip is a must; all 7800 games should have had one.
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Replacement rubber membranes are super cheap to buy online.
They aren't OEM.
I personally see no reason to purchase these controllers to use as parts controllers.
I do. They are made of brand new OEM parts.
Even Original nes controllers in good working order do not cost as much as these things do.The MSRP on these new NES Mini controllers is only $10 each. Original, used ones can be had cheaper, and they may work okay, but inside you'll often find tears in the rubber membrane switch, like this:
And even if there aren't tears yet, they are probably well on their way.
If you're going to use aftermarket rubber switches, you might as well buy an aftermarket controller, since the switches are what determine the feel of activating the D-pad and buttons. Also, who knows what sort of quality the rubber and conductive coating on the contacts is with aftermarket stuff?
I don't have any need of this for my main NES, as I have two NOS original controllers for it, which I got recently for $25 each, but I have some well-used NES controllers laying around (along with other NES consoles) that could use new switches, and as a bonus, I'd get brand new everything (shell, buttons, and D-pad), aside from the PCB and cord.
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Nice toaster comparison here.
http://www.polygon.com/2016/11/11/13597620/nes-classic-edition-teardown
It looks like the NES Classic Edition controller will be a good source of parts for refurbishing an original NES controller. The internal bosses appear to be close enough for swapping an old PCB into the new housing. I wish they would have shown a picture of a completely disassembled one; I'd like to know if the rubber membrane switches are the same, since those are the only parts which wear out on an original controller. I assume they are the same, since I don't see how they could use anything different when the rest of the design is practically identical to the original.
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I remember the NES used to just be the NES until the top-loader came out and then when it did it didn't seem common enough to lead to enough conversations for any of us to need to give it a nickname.
Exactly.
It is like SNES and SNEZZ. I didn't hear SNEZZ until being online but the people who say it probably did before being online. At least the ones that were alive when it was new and talked about it back then because I doubt they would change how they say it from getting online.I never heard "NES", "SNES", and definitely not "Snezz" (or "Nezz"), until the internet. We called the NES: "Nintendo" (some kids said "Ni'tendo") and the SNES: "Super Nintendo", at which point the NES was usually called the "regular" or "original" Nintendo. The initialisms are handy when typing though. Some PAL versions actually said "NES" on them, but our NTSC ones didn't.
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By the way, I don't consider it a clunky device at all. A toaster has always been essential, reliable and indispensable in my family, and is probably the first of a long list of stand-alone kitchen appliances designed to make the perfect "xxx".
I never use a toaster (I have one, but it's been collecting dust in the cupboard for so many years that I wouldn't want to use it). On the rare occasions when I want to toast bread, I use my electric oven's broiler, which takes about the same amount of time and is more versatile. For example, you can use the broiler to toast the insides of hamburger buns, or the outsides of a sandwich.
As for the NES front-loader, I don't consider it to be a clunky device. It's a rather impressive piece of engineering. Its spring-loaded tray and quasi-ZIF connector is clever, but unfortunately it only works properly when everything is ultra clean. Once everything is clean, it will usually work perfectly for a couple/few years before needing to be cleaned again. The hardware itself is rock-solid. A front-loader that doesn't work for some reason other than dirty connector and/or cartridge contacts is rare. Its composite video output is the best I've ever seen from any console. It does have some "dot crawl", but the overall picture is very sharp by composite standards. Its RF output is the best I've ever seen as well. Its controllers are very responsive and tough as a bag of badgers. Their only weakness is that the rubber membrane switches can start to tear eventually at the flex points ...
... though that doesn't usually prevent them from working. I bet a lot of people have original NES controllers with torn membranes and don't even know it because they still work fine.
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Post ignored
This message has been hidden because the poster is in your ignore list: keepdreamin -
For me, "toaster" as a nickname for a version of the NES is an internet term; I've never heard it in real life. I first got a PC and internet access in 2001, so around that time is when I first saw it. My memory tells me that back then it referred to the top-loader, which made sense, because its cartridge slot is on top, just as a toaster has its bread slots on top. Also, NES cartridges are similar in size to a slice of bread, so inserting one into a top-loader does evoke putting bread into a toaster. I seem to remember people talking about how the "toaster" NES was more reliable but more expensive, and that it has bad picture quality ("jailbars").
It seems that now people use the term "toaster" to refer to the front-loader, which doesn't make any sense, unless the comparison is supposed to be to a toaster oven.
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Not only was the original NES controller cord long (about 7½ feet), but the RF switch cable (or OEM A/V cables) and power cord were long too; at least as long as the controller cord, maybe longer. With my original NES frontloader (A/V cables, 120V to 9V step-down transformer, and controller are all OEM) I sit about 11 feet from my TV (32", 4:3) with the console close enough to reach and plenty of comfortable slack in the controller cord.
If I'd been in the market for one of these, I could have lived with the short controller cord though, because it is fixable with an extension cord. It would be annoying to have to do that, but not a deal-breaker. The deal-breaker for me would be the audio lag. I find it bizarre, and ironic, that fairly accurate freeware NES emulators have been around for years, but Nintendo themselves, with all of their resources, including full documentation on the NES hardware platform that they invented, can't come up with a decent NES emulator.
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Do you think these were serious bids, or that someone just drove the bids up to be a jerk?
I can't believe anyone would actually pay $1500 for one!
I mean, c'mon, they're kind of a neat little thing, but I think even the MSRP of $60 US is a bit steep...
I have no idea, though apparently a lot of them have been selling in the $200 range, which is still ridiculous.
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Less than a half-hour left on the auction, 35 bids, up to $455:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131997381601
For a lot less money than that, they could have hired someone to camp out at a local store for them.
Winning bid:US $1,525.00[41 bids]-
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Less than a half-hour left on the auction, 35 bids, up to $455:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131997381601For a lot less money than that, they could have hired someone to camp out at a local store for them.
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You must really love to begin every reply this way because it appears to be your favorite vocabulary word.
Ironically, this is a non sequitur.
According to wikipedia, there appears to be two conflicting definitions as a literary or logical term:
I do not believe it was the posters' intention to be humorous nor were their statements necessarily invalid either.
"Non sequitur" is Latin for "it does not follow". Anything which doesn't logically follow from that which preceded it is a non sequitur, and is inherently invalid in an argument (the formal logic sense of the term is more specific; I haven't used it in that sense here):
non se·qui·tur
a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you seem to be using this buzzword as a catch-all to invalidate any statement you do not specifically agree with.This is another non sequitur.
NES Mini thread got derailed pretty bad as a result and I hope it is not your intention to do the same here.It didn't get derailed at all. Discussing the capabilities (or lack thereof) of a product (which includes discussing the merits of those [missing] capabilities) is obviously pertinent in a thread announcing its upcoming release.
I agree with many of the sentiments you have posted in the thread regarding the industry standard of controlling character movements with the left hand and character actions with the right hand, but quite frankly the "non-sequitur" rebuttals are getting long in the tooth.Why are you telling me that? Me typing "non sequitur" is just an effect. The cause is: people posting replies to me which don't logically follow from anything I've said.
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Nintendo Classic Mini announced
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
What do you mean, "actually"? I never said anything about any of those things with regard to American vs. Japanese joystick. I said that American joysticks have more squarish mounting plates. The context is whether or not a Nintendo arcade joystick would line up with the existing mounting holes where a Sanwa clone once was.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. In any case, Wico joysticks were the most common during the leaf switch era (though Nintendo joysticks have always used microswitches, even when most others used leaf switches), and there were other joysticks that had the same mounting hole spacing. The Happ joysticks that became popular once microswitches supplanted leaf switches used the same mounting holes as a Wico, so there was (and is) somewhat of a mounting standard for American joysticks.
Thanks to me? Is that a joke? I replied to your post on this topic. You're a real piece of work. Not only do you have a habit of replying to posts without first reading them properly, but your perception of reality is in no way an accurate reflection of it.