mytek

I missed this question. Assuming the check is only made once upon SGM initialization, your plan seems like it should work. Actually that's pretty ingenious 👍

I think there were a few, but you're right in assuming this wouldn't be much of an issue. Most likely you can just leave the 32K RAM as always active, and the SGM games will work just fine, as well as most of the others. It just ends up looking more like an Adam.

Nice project. First of all I gotta say you out did me on the smallness factor for sure. That first version board is so small and cute, plus it looks fairly simple circuitry-wise 👍 I don't know if this helps or not, but here's what I did for SGM capability... Protel CPLD Schematic CV-NUC+MSX V1.5.pdf MSX_mmu_V1.5.pld Although it looks like you already have a handle on it. I did run into an issue with my implementation where some physical SGM carts didn't see a valid SGM. However those same games when run as a digital download on an AtariMax Ultimate SD cart worked just fine. Aww you're now getting closer to my board footprint. Adding features tends to do this I too tried using that chip, but it failed to work with virtually every SGM game I threw at it. Too bad since it drastically reduces the size required.

Just my 2 cents... I agree with what has already been said about the time involved prepping parts and soldering, plus if you are doing it yourself there's a lot of different parts that need to be ordered. It all takes time. However if you want a challenge, then opt for DIY. there's nothing better than the feeling you get seeing it boot up for the first time knowing that you built it.

The Brewing Academy used to make pre-assembled and tested units. However I don't think they ever sold just the assembled PCB. Of course anyone can submit the board gerbers and BOM to any PCB manufacturer with assembly services to have it made, but it won't come back complete or tested (its those pesky Atari made chips like Pokey that'll be missing). I would also suggest pricing this with a few different vendors such as JLCPCB, ALLPCB, PCBWAY to compare prices. Hint: PCBWAY is not always the cheapest.

I picked up some of these recently for another project, but it should work for this as well. They are break-away right angle pin headers that can be reduced down to whatever number of pins is required. This style is slightly raised off the PCB, thus better clearing surrounding chips and components. eBay LINK

Yep that's what appears to have been the problem in this case as well. Nothing but a plastic bag, a piece of Styrofoam with the chips pressed in, and a couple layers of cellophane wrapping. No padding or bubble wrap. After I soldered it up, I soaked it in pure Acetone to remove all the flux but nothing what-so-ever came off the chip in the process. So quite genuine. The original price was $40 per chip. After getting a third one as a replacement and counting the fixed one, I'm now at approximately $26 a piece. So it's like going back in time a couple years.

Well I needed a replacement VIC-II for one of my machines, and even though it was originally an NTSC NMOS chip, I opted to buy a couple of HMOS versions off of eBay after failing to succeed on AliExpress (order got cancelled by seller). I have an adapter to go from NMOS to HMOS, and generally prefer the HMOS for its lower power requirements and far less heat. So it took several weeks, but the chips finally arrived. However one had a sheared off ground pin. There was nothing sticking out to solder it back on to, so I contacted the buyer explaining the situation and asked if it was possible to get a replacement sent. They agreed. So although the broken chip is being replaced, I just couldn't stand the thought of not at least trying to repair it. So out came the dremel and I used that tool to both dig out a whole pin from a defective chip, and dug out the spot on the VIC-II chip where it would get attached. Since several of the other pins didn't feel very strong, I opted to solder the whole chip to a machine pin socket to act as a carrier. Then I popped it into my test computer and fired it up. It lives!!! 👍 So now having essentially gotten 3 chips for the price of two, the overall cost per chip wasn't half bad. BTW, the other eBay chip tested good as well.

Good question, and something worth investigating.

Yes I agree, and I have several of these much cheaper alternatives laying around my house just for this use. However I'm intrigued by the LumaCode product and will be investing in at least one to test it out. If it works well, then I'll buy a few more of the GTIAdizer part only at I believe $35 a pop and use the single decoder on a single HDTV. This should be pretty economical when used on multiple computers who share a common monitor. LumaCode only requires an RCA jack to feed out the signal, so the unneeded RF modulator's jack is used for that (no additional holes). I used Luma for the XEP80 output, and then gave the user the choice of either Composite or S-Video (Luma/Chroma) for the normal Atari video. Of course the separate Luma/Chroma was the way to go if at all possible, yielding a much better image over the HDMI output. Audio could either be the stock output fed into the HDMI converter with a 'Y' adapter or stereo if you had that upgrade installed.

@foft that BGA chip scares me How do you know when all the points are soldered? Be next to impossible to do a visual inspection.

Not as good as LumaCode or Sophia because you are converting the analog video to HDMI, whereas the LumaCode digitizer is directly reading an interpreting the GTIA digital signals. Unless I'm mistaken, all you've done is repackage an off-the-shelf S-Video to HDMI converter. So I doubt that the video will be crystal clear since it's reliant on the quality of the stock Atari analog video circuits. I did something similar in this project (XEP80-II).

So using the joystick port to read a USB keyboard would have required a driver on the Atari side (your VB routine). I would think it would be much better to go through Pokey and mimic the stock keyboard matrix so as to be transparent to the Atari, and thus no need for a driver to interpret it. Curious as to why the console keys couldn't be made to work via your original idea. Seems like the same driver could have poked the appropriate registers.

First I gotta commend you on your ingenuity 👍 But then I look at the complexity to just adapt a USB joystick and it makes me wonder if there is a simpler way. Seems like a job for a single Atmel or PIC microcontroller that has built-in USB (there are several choices). Of course it would require custom firmware and PCB, so still a project.

Glad you spotted that 👍 It shows that the innovation began on the Atari, and then spilled over to the C64. However the idea for the RF Modulator replacement as a more universal interface came from a builder on the C64 which I incorporated into my design. Since the Atari 8-bits also has a modulator with two holes in the case (RCA Jack and channel switch) I'll have to investigate if such an interface board can be made for the UGV as well. And just like the C64 platform, there are differences between models, so it may take a couple of different versions. But I really do like the idea of the 3.5mm stereo jack being configurable to yield Composite Video, LumaCode, as well as left and right audio with the use of a dual RCA jack 'Y' adapter.

And now to agitate all you Commie Haters I got the newest member of the VGATE family almost ready for show time. VGATE Video Board for the C64 VIC-II It's actually a more integrated 2 piece board set, with a separate interface board meant to take the place of the original RF modulator. And because there were essentially two versions (long board and short board) there are also two different interface boards as well. Nice thing is that no new holes or case modification is required, and we get the S-Video, Composite, and Audio all available from the one interface board. It even accommodates the LumaCode video digitizer output or stereo. As can be seen below, not much is nested inside the socket area, with only the PIC chip and a couple other associated components, since there isn't a space issue in this application.

It happens to me all the time. Even if I double and triple check a BOM, it never fails that at least one thing is wrong when I go to assemble a board. Nothing like ordering and assembling from the early draft to really verify accuracy 🙄

You're in the UK so that would be a bit expensive. Better if I just add the board to one of my future JLCPCB purchases. But thanks for the offer for sure 👍 From what I understand it presently fits all Atari 8-bit systems, so there's really no need to shrink it down more. Also with all the components on the topside as they are now, it would be relatively simple to use a stencil and reflow oven for assembly if so desired. As for economics, I suspect there would not be a noticeable difference in cost to make it smaller than what it already is.

@Overange is your SM Edition ready for public release? I so, would you mind if I add it's gerbers and BOM to my UGV page? Of course I'd be sure to give you full credit

I sometimes feel that way if I post something about one of my projects before its conclusion, because it adds sometimes unwanted pressure to get it done. But on the other hand it does feel good to share, and as you pointed out, get inspiration that drives the project forward in an even better way.

GUI or CLI makes no difference to the scenario of my wife and kids ever wanting to use the Atari. And if they ever did, all they would be interested in doing on it would be games which are easily handled by the menus on the various Multi-Carts or SDrives. And I'd pretty much have to put myself in that camp as well a good majority of the time. I had a discussion over Zoom with a few other Atarians about this, and I openly voiced my opinion that from a practicality point of view there's really nothing I'd prefer doing on an 8-Bit Atari vs. my Linux box (maybe games). For instance in my opinion all these applications will require a modern PC of some kind with a GUI (Windows, MAC, Linux)... WYSIWYG Word Processing via Word or Libreoffice Writer Proper surfing on the internet via Chrome, Firefox, or Edge, ect. that can handle graphics Proper email client that can handle all attachments Proper spreadsheet such as Excel or LibreOffice Calc PDF Viewer Video editing Photo editing Ability to run development platforms for modern hardware (ESP, Arduino, Raspberry Pi, PICs, AVRs, FPGAs, CPLDs) PCB Design Suites 3D Printing and Design Posting on AtariAge And the list goes on, and on... So what's left? Retro Games. Pretty interesting coming from a guy that develops hardware upgrades for retro computers. Edit: Because it's a hobby for me very much like working on an old car. I'm just being realistic on whether my wife and kids would ever want to do something productive on an Atari 8-bit computer, irrelevant if it had a GUI or not But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see Jon's GUI finished.

I thought I should post this here as well on my website. !!! WARNING !!! Not all SGM Physical Carts are guaranteed to work, although the equivalent digital download versions using an AtariMax Ultimate Cart often times will work. This is something that came to light over the last 6 months. I and a fellow beta tester had run all the SGM game digital download tests via an AtariMax Ultimate SD Cart without any issues during the R&D development phase. But first one and then another end user discovered that a limited few SGM Physical Carts would not work (apparently they didn't pass the SGM test performed by the game). Obviously it's a timing issue between the physical and digital download versions, with the digital versions via the AtariMax cart usually working fine. If I knew specifically what that difference really is, there may have been a way to correct it possibly through a CPLD update. However I'm presently at a loss, and I'm obviously not going to rush out and purchase a bunch of physical SGM carts to find out, since I already spent a considerable amount to fund the R&D on this project. As I mentioned only a 'few' SGM physical carts have not worked, so it doesn't appear to be a chronic problem. But I felt it only right to point this out to potential buyers and/or builders.

@Overange thank you for finding that information, because I couldn't pin-point where I had posted that. Using those specific cables, here's the breakdown on what color does what. !!! IMPORTANT !!! notice the reversal on the Luma/Chroma connections.

The combo FujiNet/Cart board is not so much closed source, since the schematics for the various parts was shared a while back. But the PCB design and manufacturing files are closed source. Or in other words, it's only available as a purchase from TBA.

I received an inquiry today... Well other than this topic, and what little information has been provided at my AtariBits website, I would recommend checking this out. Hopefully that posted topic will help fill in some gaps for you from an operational point of view. However you will not find a BOM or assembly instructions for this particular variant on my website, or in these forums. Keep in mind that the FujiNet/Cart daughter board for the 576NUC+ is actually the creation of @Mr Robot and is solely manufactured by @MacRorie of The Brewing Academy where you mentioned purchasing it from. Currently I'm not aware of it being an open source project.